[Closed] PSA: Surrey Hills - permanent trail closures

Dang wrong forum!

Mountain biking on the Hurtwood; a clarification.

It has come to our attention that certain mountain bikers are not understanding the problems caused by building trails without our permission.

Many of the old legacy trails are unable to take the current load from the riders who now come to the Hurtwood. Friends of the Hurtwood (FotH) manage a small group of local bikers ( Liam, Chris and Si ) to maintain the existing network of trails as well as implement new sections where we feel it is appropriate. The decisions on all these works is managed solely by FotH and no one else; the group of bikers only providing the labour and building skills.

All decisions regarding the closing of any trails are made between ourselves and the landowners and only after all other practical options have been explored.

If the current group of volunteers are continued to be harassed and driven away from helping to maintain and improve the trails (think Supa Nova) then FotH will have no option but to close trails as they become unusable.

It’s unfortunate that a small minority of riders feel that they can do whatever they like and build features into existing trails simply because they wish to progress their riding skills here rather than go to a location that allows them to do this. The Hurtwood is not a trail centre, we cannot provide rider only trails or different levels of trail, we will only allow trails that are rideable by the most inexperienced rider. If anyone wishes to progress their riding skills, there are plenty of other sites specifically for this, just because its not here doesn’t mean you can create it.

We will over the coming weeks be closing two trails on Winterfold, Evian and Three Amigos, not especially because of problems with the trail features, but simply because they both exit onto our neighbours private property. We have looked at alternative routes, but realistically they wouldn’t be practical and only end in the same problems we have now.

To reiterate the situation regarding the access rights that different user groups have; walkers have the right to roam all over the Hurtwood and this is a legal right under CROW (Countryside and Right of Way Act 2000). Mountain biking and horse riding are only allowed under our original 1926 Deed of Dedication. This Deed can be revoked at any time, mountain biking on the Hurtwood is not a right, it’s a privilege, so please don’t abuse it.

Not surprised. It seems to have been silly season with building up there again, clearly unofficial stuff. There was a bunch of people trying to resurrect the Milestone jump line next to Evian not that long ago (facepalm).

It's easier just to avoid that hotspot of trails around (and on) JMc's land - most are battered anyway these days. Rather ride further afield - there are a lot of much better trails to be ridden in the local area 🙂

The Hurtwood is not a trail centre, we cannot provide rider only trails or different levels of trail

Well maybe they should be, its something I suggested to them. I have case studies and an action plan I shared from QECP to the Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty (AONB) guys who where very interested and we great to chat to but the Hurtwood rangers were not interest, fair enough, keep on burring you head in the sand.

Obviously QECP is a different situation but 8 years ago we had the Rangers vs illegal trail builder battle going on. Now is no where near as bad, infect well over 50% of the "illegal" trail have now been adopted.

"Rather ride further afield – there are a lot of much better trails to be ridden in the local area 🙂"

ooh where are they? i'm not so local anymore (1hr away) so a bit out of touch.

Rather ride further afield – there are a lot of much better trails to be ridden in the local area 🙂

shut up hob nob - nothing to see here - it's just flat fields.. 😉

i'm more peeved that 3 amigos has gone, never understood what the issue with that one is, there's no features, it's just a good flowy trail 🙁

i’m more peeved that 3 amigos has gone, never understood what the issue with that one is, there’s no features, it’s just a good flowy trail

It ends on McAllister's land i believe so it has the same issue as Evian. It's mentally busy up there at the weekends these days, so much so that i'm surprised there hasn't been more push back over the trail network.

Saw this posted on a few trees while riding

Any one know whats going on its going o be a right bu**er if the riding gets shut down up there due to a  few  muppets doing whatever they like

Mr Walton ^^ is the Si referred to in the Ranger's post. So I assume those flyers which have been stapled all over trees in Winterfold have been made by those that have been creating the new lines, including the resurrection of the milestone jumps that hobnob referred to. I can't see how stapling litter to a load of trees is going to endear the landowners to the mtb community.

Swinley, that's where all the trails are, go to swinley.

Swindon surely? Behind Nationwide.

We rode some sick natural, steep loamers down at the Basingstoke Canal.

Either that, or Swinley 🙂

Gotama

Member
i’m more peeved that 3 amigos has gone, never understood what the issue with that one is, there’s no features, it’s just a good flowy trail

It ends on McAllister’s land i believe so it has the same issue as Evian. It’s mentally busy up there at the weekends these days, so much so that i’m surprised there hasn’t been more push back over the trail network.

doesn't it technically end on a bridle path which has public right of way? either way it's a shame it's gone 3 times before so will probably be back in a couple of years.

but as others say, Swindon is where it's all at these days definitely nothing in mole valley.

To be expected I guess. I was wondering when they would be shut down permanently. There are enough other trails to not really cry over these two. However, if they all (Hurtwood) get shut down then I really would cry! I feel its going to be an ongoing battle with trail pixies to prevent new stuff popping up. I guess its only natural to want to improve build new trails and some people probably have no idea about down side of doing so.

Swindon is where it’s all at these days

The most boring place ever...ok for Cross Country I guess but its so flat!

Whoosh!

We rode some sick natural, steep loamers down at the Basingstoke Canal.

Either that, or Swinley 🙂

Thanks. Friendly bunch in Surrey! lol

Mr Walton ^^ is the Si referred to in the Ranger’s post. So I assume those flyers which have been stapled all over trees in Winterfold have been made by those that have been creating the new lines, including the resurrection of the milestone jumps that hobnob referred to. I can’t see how stapling litter to a load of trees is going to endear the landowners to the mtb community.

This would be the same Si that leads the pedal & spoke shop rides pretty much every other week, with 20-30+ riders?

Sounds like some butthurt riders are getting their trails closed.

Well maybe they should be, its something I suggested to them. I have case studies and an action plan I shared from QECP to the Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty (AONB) guys who where very interested and we great to chat to but the Hurtwood rangers were not interest, fair enough, keep on burring you head in the sand.

Until the personnel of the hurtwood committee change, there will be no change. As a former Hurtwood trails trail builder, it was like banging my head against a wall for a few years with them, gave up and walked away with the rest of the group.

Good to ride the stuff we built and see its still in working order even after no maintenance in several years.

Until the personnel of the hurtwood committee change, there will be no change. As a former Hurtwood trails trail builder, it was like banging my head against a wall for a few years with them, gave up and walked away with the rest of the group.

As I said sticking your head in the sand while rider numbers increase year on year is currently working well for them.

Anyway I tryed, it's a real shame the AONB guys were very forward thinking.

Golf is fun.

I think it's probably a bit (lot) more complicated that QE - although an AONB, a lot of the land is privately owned, and a lot of the owners have all the monies, and to be fair, quite rightly don't want people trespassing on their land. So what do we do, build f*cking massive jump lines right next to a bridleway. Genius.

Having seen JMc be on the receiving end of a bunch of riders abuse for him asking them not to ride on his land, i'm literally amazed it's taken this long. I'm almost shocked he hasn't run someone over in his Range Rover the way he gets spoken to.

As for pointing out other trails - not my place to do that, use some initiative - heaven forbid, have a look on Strava & see what you can find & go explore 🙂

This is posted on the trees around winterfold now - can but hope peeps take notice and dont keep riding / building the trails and cause other stuff to be shut down

We rode some sick natural, steep loamers down at the Basingstoke Canal.

Not sure if serious, but it's fenced off from the housing estate side and no entry signs from the canal end.

This months MBR arrived today and in it is an article on Best of British about testing/developing Whyte hardtails in Peaslake……...and one trail gets several name checks...……..Evian...

snooze

Member
This months MBR arrived today and in it is an article on Best of British about testing/developing Whyte hardtails in Peaslake………and one trail gets several name checks………..Evian…

no surprise really, the Evian line was called MBR for a while (or vice versa or i could be thinking of milestone hips) as it was being built by the MBR chap. MBR and its representatives don't help the situation around Peaslake.

Whilst i don;t like JMc (he tired running a group of us off his land almost 20 years ago, i get where he's coming from, and like HobNob says, berating the bloke and blocking his drive is not going to endear him to the cycling crowd, it's bonkers some of the stories i hear of the arguments with him..

Winterfold needs another rest to let things calm down again, that said judging by what i always considered to be less well riden trails on other hills were absolutely heaving at the weekend - STRAVA can go F*k oFF...

I believe a certain MBR staffer does some digging, including modifying existing trails. Ruined one that I used to enjoy riding.

no surprise really, the Evian line was called MBR for a while (or vice versa or i could be thinking of milestone hips) as it was being built by the MBR chap. MBR and its representatives don’t help the situation around Peaslake.

Yep, Evian was originally built by the MBR lot, I remember it being called the MBR trail. Then one of the team built the Milestone Hips. They don't really do anything there any more (other than take photo's). I think the guy who was doing most of the trailbuilding left the mag a few years ago now.

I seem to recall a few years ago now some riders decided it would be a great idea to fell some tree's across JMC's driveway in some kind of protest to him blocking trails off? The whole thing is a bit bonkers really.

I'm one of the olderish trail builders who did stuff with Redlands, as did Sonor up there ^^.

the big difference between Hurtwood and quite literally everywhere else is the 1926 Deed of Trust, which was and still is a long way ahead of the rest of England in terms of trail access. Basically, the working rule is as follows: go where you like, do what you want so long as you don't inconvenience others.

The 'others' also include neighbouring landowners who didn't sign up to the Deed. If a trail ends on or crosses through their land, they don't have to abide by the Deed, and they do what every other landowner does when they have a problem - assert their ownership of the land the own.

Then there's another problem: insurance. Nice flow trail that's sensitively built so that even a complete numpty can ride it slowly without coming a cropper, but someone with the right mad skillz can get rad air? Fine. Something with a massive gap and painful consequences for failure? If the landowner knows about it and someone hurts themselves, they're on the hook for it. And before the tired old 'I won't sue I'm not like that' line comes out, I know: you won't sue. But when you claim against insurance for lost income (if you're self employed) or your employer opens a claim, their insurer will look around for someone who might have liability, and guess who that'll be. If the landowner knows about a dodgy trail, and does not close it down, their insurance will not, repeat not, cover them from the flying monkey lawyers.

If you think this is a new problem, then here's a case in point: nearly 20 years ago now, some very talented people built some amazing North Shore stuff on Pitch, a bit West of where Curly Wurly is now. It was known as the Ewok Village, and if had all kinds of stunts, drops, and even a spiral ramp up around a tree. It was thing of beauty and terror. But once the (very impressed) ranger found out about it, he was told in no uncertain terms to chainsaw it and put it beyond use.

I've seen a couple of people on that Facebook thread sound off about 'no dig no ride' and 'the land is ours, bruh' and all that. Fair enough. building big stuff on this scale will and does get trails shut down. Those are the consequences. Either we (or they) ignore the wishes of a landowner which is actually fairly accommodating to our needs as a group, and continues to lose trails for everybody riding here, or they tone it down, think a bit more about what they're doing where, and choose very wisely about what and where they build and what it might look like to a land owner or their agent.

Sorry for the shouty rant. This is probably the fourth round of organised trail closures I've seen on the Hurtwood since I started riding here in about 1993. Nothing new under the sun.

Well said Bent. Some of the remains of Ewok Village can still be seen till today.... it must have been something else to see let alone ride!

A few of the 'big' feature trails in the recent past on Pitch, Winterfold and further afield (just after the changeover of Owners) were removed by the Ranger/Landowner soon after the ruling of the unfortunate incident on BkB for what I would imagine are preciscely as per the reasons mentioned above by BU.

TBH there is still plenty of riding to be had and found.

Then one of the team built the Milestone Hips.

And stick up signs saying no videos, then proceed to publish videos riding them 🤦‍♂️

And +1 what Bent said, mostly, just

Basically, the working rule is as follows: go where you like, do what you want so long as you don’t inconvenience others.

It's a right to roam, but not dig. Some people think that's their right also and same goes for Jim's land which isn't part of the deal and he's already pissed off.

Not that digs are bad, just needs to be some common sense in respect to the audience, the landowner, and if you don't want it found, build it private and no social media! (and on an official line, with permission).

Thanks deadkenny - you're right. Bad choice of words on my part.