[Closed] Properly back on the bike, but new bike purchase has got be baffled

Personally Im waiting to see one of those Vitus Mythique's. 29er, modern ish geometry without being too much of a one trick pony, marzocchi fork.

29ers are faster, some pople dont like them because they limit their ability to pull off a tripple backflip 720 on the Swinley Blue due to the extra rotating weight.

Everything is now boost, moaning about it is like bemoaning the lack of 25.4 handlebars.

Everything is now ridiculously expensive.

450g cassettes are now normal and paying £150 for them is considered normal too.

Choice in fork offsets is offset by the cost of even entry level forks being so high you're never likely to replace the ones you have anyway.

Rear shocks are now metric, which means basicly nothing other than the ....x.... numbers are different.

Think thats the laat 15 years covered.

lol

+1 depending on budget I'd be looking at those Vitus Mythique 29ers, look to be fantastic value.

Or a Sonder Cortex. Maybe planet-X will clone one next week.

450g cassettes are now normal and paying £150 for them is considered normal too.

Ok but the extra 100g weight is now offset by losing front mech, front shifter, cable, and two chainrings and their bolts. I saved 300g on my bike going from old XTR 3x9 to M8000 cassette and all, albeit re-using the same cranks.

Plus XT cassettes are £60, sod paying £150.

You don't really need to worry about any of it. Just go into an LBS, ask for a FS 29er trail bike and ride it. Don't get an Enduro bike.

I much prefer 29ers, but I always thought 26" was way too small for me (at 6'1"). Obviously the small wheel choice is now 27.5", but I don't see any reason to not choose 29" for trail riding unless you are a midget.

Full suss vs HT. Still the same basic pros and cons as there ever was. You could say modern full sussers pedal better than they did in 2004, so probably less cons than back then. Although costs are getting ever higher if you want the latest and greatest spec.

Whatever you were riding DH in 2004 will be easily matched or beaten by a modern 120-140 mm travel 29er XC/trail bike, which will pedal everywhere else much faster. Or you could go full enduro spec 150-170 travel if you really want to be pushing your limits on the steep and gnarly. But be honest with yourself otherwise you will probably end up hauling a lot of expensive bike around and be slower as a result.

You will likely notice that modern bikes are much longer, lower and slacker than you remember. Bar widths are also massively wider! They are mostly a lot better, but it's very easy to pointlessly over-spec a modern trail bike for average uk riding. For me personally, the sweet spot is now around 130 mm travel full suss, sub 30 lb 29er with modern, but not extreme, geometry. Bikes in that category are equally good up and down hills and can handle pretty much anything the average rider could throw at them. For reference, in 2004 I was riding a 150 mm travel 26" bike on the same trails and finding it much harder work.

I'd buy a used Whyte T-130. Why, because they're just fantastic to ride, absolutely lovely for their budget.

Thanks people, I think I may be swithering towards a 29er but I might try one first.

There was mention not to get an enduro bike..... What are the cons with that end of the market?

Pros - will smash through rock gardens at pace giving you a much easier time than most other bikes. They’ll also be easy to pilot through really steep gnarly stuff.

Cons - they will make some normal pedally trails feel very boring or a bit hard work. They’re harder to tip into slow / sharp corners than a slightly steeper / shorter bike.

Was in a similar position, biggest differences is wheel size and travel, 2004 would see stuff like Turner 5 Spots or the likes being seen as enduro level bikes, now that's bordering XC. If you're more in to the downs than the ups, 150mm should be a good number, 27.5 vs 29 for me is about appearance and sizing, i'm 5'6" so 29ers look silly, but if i was 6ft then it brings 29ers into looking almost normal, yes they're not as quick on the turns, but they're good for what they do.

Best bet is to test a few, calibre at Go Outdoors gets a lot of good reviews these days for being cost effective, same as vitus, try and get a shot of a few.

There was mention not to get an enduro bike….. What are the cons with that end of the market?

Longer reach and shorter stems (and slack head angles) mean wheelbases get really long. Great for stability, but eventually just feels like youre the engine rather tham the rider untill things get really rowdy.

they’re not as quick on the turns, but they’re good for what they do.

I think people understand geometry a bit more than they did 10 years ago.

Early 29ers had long chainstays relative to the front center which was basicly transplanted off a 26" xc bike complete with 110mm stem. This meant they turned in "wierd" because your weight is quite forward in the wheelbase. It kinda feels like the back wheel is pushing you upright through the pedals when you try and turn quickly.

As bikes grew we reached the point where small wheeled bikes gained chainstays that were equally long and both grew longer front center so they're more balanced. These days 29ers generally share the same or similar geometry to their 650b equivalents and they really dont handle that differently appart from 29ers roll over rough stuff better at the expense of about 1lb more weight.

Then you get to the relationship between stem length, reach, head angle, offset and seat angle. Put simply with a bit of cleverness its possible to pick a figure for wheelbase, plonk a rider on top (saddle and handlebars) and join the dots in a variety of different ways that can all 'feel' the same. E.g. the Stooge is relatively slack, but has a massive fork offset that makes it feel much sharper. But without having to have a short wheelbase. As fun to ride as an xc bike with the long wheelbase stability of a much bigger bike.

it brings 29ers into looking almost normal, yes they’re not as quick on the turns

I am not sure this is always the case. My Trek 29er is an XC race type machine and it steers incredibly quickly. I'm not saying I'd recommend it for trail use but it proves that 29ers don't always handle slowly.

No, but the physics of that 1.5" difference means chainstays are always going to be slightly longer, same with the rolling mass and so on, i know it's all about the geometry, but theoretically 27.5 will always have the ability to be more agile, otherwise everything would be 29".

Looking past the actual bikes themselves the option of direct sale brands has made well specced bikes more accessible to more people by cutting the cost massively, although I'd only recommend it go someone who is reasonably competent at maintaining their own bike. The last bike I bought has a similar ( better imo ) build kit than a top spec Santa Cruz costing around £8500, I paid just over £4000 and they were actually on sale for less than that a couple of weeks ago

theoretically 27.5 will always have the ability to be more agile

Yes, theoretically, but don't go around thinking all 29ers are slow turning cos it's not necessarily true.

test ride a few with different wheel sizes and get an idea of the geometry you like. Then you can order one online. If your tall a 29er would probably be best. Good luck.

The other big difference from back in the day is the real game changer that is dropper posts .

It’s the same as it was in 2004 as it was in 94; low weight makes a bike more expensive, good parts and brand fame makes it more expensive, good warranty makes it more expensive. These days you can pick a bike with suspension that smashes through stuff or one that’s more agile and pings off stuff and how much travel it has doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll do one of the other. Some long travel bikes are lighter than some of the short travel bikes - weirdly. Ultimately you’ll need to get your arse on some.

In true Single-track style, everyone's recommended bikes without knowing anything about the riding you're gonna be doing!

When you say 'trail riding', is that trail centres? If so, which trail centres?

Or do you mean cross-country style trails?

The downhill trails, are they uplift assisted and used for DH races?

Would you plan to also go away for trips to Alps or similar on your new bike?

In true STW style, another thread disappears down a wheelsize hole. 😂

No, but the physics of that 1.5″ difference means chainstays are always going to be slightly longer, same with the rolling mass and so on, i know it’s all about the geometry, but theoretically 27.5 will always have the ability to be more agile, otherwise everything would be 29″.

Didnt the latest enduro have longer chainstays on the 650b version? Its often the same or within 5-10mm, not enough that it makes a huge difference, my singlespeed has more of a change between gear ratios. You notice it but not enough to really affect the ride.

The rotating mass myth is a myth. Yes a 29er wheel weighs proportionally more (about 10%) but that also means it rotates 10% slower. So it doesnt fall into the "rotating weight counts double" category. Gyroscopic effects and unsprung weight are still there, but really the latter is completely dwarfed by the better roll over, and i think gyroscopic effects were really mistaken interpretations of the impacts of different trail figures for 29ers.

Try and test ride as many bikes as you can. I found that I needed more travel on a 26er and less on a 29er. That was due to the bike fitting me better (6ft3) technology has moved on (pikes) and I don't do as much silly stuff as I used to (getting older)

Something like an orbea occam with 130 travel is a lot more capable than a 26er with similar travel. It's also a lot better to peddle.

Unless you are doing some big days out avoid the enduro bikes. Most of my friends that bought them do love them but on longer rides they struggle. They look great, are fun downhill but not as efficient.

I guess it all depends on what you ride most of the time.

My suspension bike is a specialized stump jumper and is a jack of all trades. You can also pick up some good 2nd hand ones. There's an excellent XL one in the classifieds for £1200.

I have been on 27.5 for a few years, with an Anthem and a Bird Zero. Have sold the Anthem and just got my first FS 29er, and itching to ride it. It’s full carbon, with an xt 12 speed group set, DT 1501 wheelset, with 2.6 minions, Fox 36 factory Grip 2 Fork, a Fox float X2 factory shock and 160mm travel. The blingiest bike I’ve had, and interestingly also the biggest, in a large. I’m 5ft 9.5 and it fits so well (yes, I had a test ride before buying) . It has a shade longer reach than the Bird though a slightly shorter ETT. Both the Bird and the now sold Anthem are mediums.

I guess my point is wheelsize and frame size leads to different feels with different manufacturers and having a sit and ideally a ride on a variety is crucial.

My 29er also happens to have a Bosch motor, but that’s not relevant in this thread 😀

160mm travel, My 29er also happens to have a Bosch motor, but that’s not relevant in this thread 😀

I'd say very relevant. If I was buying a bike with a motor I'd go full enduro! I bet that's going to be fun to ride!

Didnt the latest enduro have longer chainstays on the 650b version?

I was browsing Orange bikes looking at how geo has changed over the years, and I noticed that the Alpine 6 has a shorter reach than the Stage 6, despite being on the face of it a 'burlier' bike. Presumably this has something to do with the wheel size.

In true Single-track style, everyone’s recommended bikes without knowing anything about the riding you’re gonna be doing!

When you say ‘trail riding’, is that trail centres? If so, which trail centres?

Or do you mean cross-country style trails?

The downhill trails, are they uplift assisted and used for DH races?

Would you plan to also go away for trips to Alps or similar on your new bike?

Considering the OP hasn't bought a new bike for 15 years and is just getting back into it, I would imagine he's not looking at EWS territory here. But yes, more info on specific trails and what he meant by DH would help narrow the choice down.

The overlap in capability between different bikes is large enough now that almost any 120-160 mm modern "XC/Trail/Enduro bike would work pretty well over a wide variety of trails. What his mates are riding should be a guiding factor too. If they are all on lightweight XC bikes, then an Enduro is probably not a good choice and vice versa.

In true Single-track style, everyone’s recommended bikes without knowing anything about the riding you’re gonna be doing!

When you say ‘trail riding’, is that trail centres? If so, which trail centres?

Or do you mean cross-country style trails?

The downhill trails, are they uplift assisted and used for DH races?

Would you plan to also go away for trips to Alps or similar on your new bike?

Considering the OP hasn’t bought a new bike for 15 years and is just getting back into it, I would imagine he’s not looking at EWS territory here. But yes, more info on specific trails and what he meant by DH would help narrow the choice down.

Ok, this might help. At the moment, i'm taking in pretty much the same 7 mile loop 3 times a week which is mostly trails with a bit of singletrack, ups and downs and roots, but nothing too mad at all. I've not hit any of the trail centers in years, probably around 2002 was my last trip to Glentress. When i was partaking in downhill, it was probably very much "Downhill Lite", I never raced, I had a Marin B17 and other than some local stuff I would go to Innerleithen from time to time.

I probably will head to the trail centers after winter and once I get a new bike. Take in some longer rides with more challenging terrain than I'm committing to at the moment. Just now it's about rebuilding any strength I did have and more importantly, losing weight, which since starting cycling and eating better, i've lost 50ibs.

Bike envy plays a big part, the bike I had before my current bike (2003 Kona Cinder Cone) was a custom GT Zaskar that got stolen and between depression, weight gain and money (or lack thereof) meant I never really kept up cycling.......now it's like a weird drug habit that needs to be fed at every chance. So splurging on something like a Cotic BFE or YT Capra seem like a good option, but then again, I'm too clueless at the moment to know what's a good purchase right now. Vitus Sentier may be the most sensible option.

Cheers
Basically, i'm looking to

Still Whyte T130 🙂