[Closed] Project 5 watts per kg.

It's long been told on here that if you are already a reasonable cyclist you can't lose weight at the same time as increasing power.

It certainly seems to be the case with me - I can do one or the other. It might be counterproductive to attempt it.

I'd need to hit at least 400W for FTP for me to hit that figure. I'm currently investigating how much power I can gain by squatting large weights in the gym.

you'll need this

https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser.html.en

Fair play sir, I'm similar physiology to you albeit a little shorter, so interested in how it works out

Good luck. 265 to 350 is a big jump. you are about the same dimensions as me, although i am a bit lighter 73kg. I am about 280ftp, when very fit i can hold 350 for a max of 6 mins. Getting up to an hour at 350 is achievable i think with dedication. but i mean pro dedication.

I'd agree molgrips for most people, however I've got a good 10kg of muscle up top I can shed. Which I hope will be the difference. As stated I'm also a bit tubs too. Guess we'll find out.

5w/kg FTP will make you a proper animal. What kind of rider are you? That's tickling elite road territory. You

At 5w/kg your approching pro-road level. Are you really that good?

How long are you planning to take on this project? What, probably an increase of between 10-20% is achievable on FTP over the course of a winter's training??

Prob depends a lot on your age - dropping 15%+ bodyweight whilst boosting ftp by approx. 30% sounds hugely ambitious given you're already pretty fit. The massive transformations you're talking about are for couch potatoes who've done nowt for 35 years.

Good luck in any case - even if you got only part way there it would be very significant. 5W per kg is huge, though - might be a regular thing for the pros we read about, but dishing that out on the amateur level would be beastial.

How long.. aiming to peak high at the Fred Whitton next year (didn't get an entry this year and have a couple of very quick friends I want to prove a point to). Got a time in my head of like to achieve (sub 6hr45).

But if I'm not there then that doesn't mean it stops. Might take 4 years... who knows.

First stage is to shift this timber. I'm aiming for 1kg per week whilst training both turbo and weights hard to maintain power and mass in my legs as my bodyweight comes down.

What type of rider... I'm currently a sprinter but can happily ride century's. Ride road and mtb.

My favourite recent discovery is the '10% every 20weeks' rule.

Yes you can increase faster on a time crunched type plan for up to 10 weeks but you will lose your mojo, your health or your fitness and another 10weeks later will see you back at or below that rule of thumb.

Also, there was the Blog post from Friel saying that (with a ton of caveats) your FTP 'should be' 4.5w/kg. So once you reach that, I would imagine the '10% every 20weeks' would slow down.
For Pro's with high natural ability, that can slow to as little as 1% per year over a 17year career.

My personal take on the weight loss v power gains theory is that you can do both if you lump it under the heading of 'w/kg'. So don't worry whether it's FTP rising or weight falling as long as the 'w/kg' is trending upwards.

I'm shooting for 4.0w/kg by the end of the year myself from 85kg/308w (3.6) at the moment. That's almost bang on '10% every 20 weeks' too...

Good luck with it! I'll follow with interest.

Unless the standard has improved in the last few 5 years, there really aren't that many XC riders out there? who genuinely have an FTP above 5W/kg. You be easily top 20 maybe top 10 on a good day.

If you are looking for a 25% FTP increase, I think you'd take at least 2 probably? 3 years of dedicated training to get there.

From what little I've read, extrapolating a 60min FTP value from a 20min workout needs to be taken with a generous pinch of salt, just like Strava's estimated power values.

I've never done a proper FTP test, but Strava and the data-tastic Stavistix plugin churn out differing numbers on my rides.

But good luck on your quest!

Hate to put a downer on the whole thing, but raising FTP from 280-350 is probably a 2-3yr endeavour on its own without the weight loss.
A lot of people train properly and don't ever break 4W/Kg so 5 is very ambitious - as others have said, thats getting into the territory of getting paid to ride your bike.

Yeh I've not extrapolated it. As I say I havent done one to verify it and it could even be a bit higher.

I've looked at what my heart rate is doing at different powers on some light intervals I've done recently and am 99% sure I could hold 265 for well over an hour (that's using the output from a tacx Vortex I'm using). Could be as high as 280 but not higher as I know at 300 I fade slightly after about 10 minutes.

I'll do a proper ftp when I've shifted this cold.

No downer taken fifeandy. I don't take no for an answer and I certainly don't set out saying I don't think I can achieve this. I've got a goal and I'm shooting for it. If I fail to hit 5w/kg I'll be faster regardless

It will be interesting to see what he can achieve if he really has a sprinter's body.

How are you measuring FTP? On the turbo? I always found it far far more difficult to maintain power on a turbo that I knew I could do on the road. Maybe 15-20% less for the same RPE.

I am a similar weight and the same height as you OP.

I have no idea on my power output, I have started to keep an eye on HR during rides as a means of gauging effort and that seems to help me with moderating workloads so that I can ride further and/or longer.

I certainly need to adjust my diet a fair bit but I am half at the whim of SWMBO there...

I would be interested to see how your experiment goes, but I'm more interesting to see how general stamina and endurance last as weight goes down and what sort of training regime you manage to work in around daily life.

Is targeting a specific W/kg figure the way to go? Or should you just focus on weight loss while maintaining fitness and simply measure power at key points just to tune your training...

I'm guessing that no you can't. Unless you are seriously lucky with your genetics.

The training you describe will be unlikely to be sufficient. Plus, presuming that number in your username is your DOB then there's your age to consider too.

But you are likely to make some serious gains, be healthier, faster, fitter and happier so go for it!

Good luck with the project

On paper it sounds like a big ask, however in the last year and a half I've had a similar experience. I was a mid to top 10 sport racer but never trained seriously. I bought? a smart trainer and power meter, and started using zwift and traineroad a couple of winters ago. I started at 68kg and roughly 240ftp. About 3.6wpk.
Now I've dropped 9-10kg and gains 45watts in power to give me a 4.8wpk.
I've had top 10 finishes in the expert cat at nationals this year and started road racing too, however currently sidelined due some cat 4 idiot crashing infront of me sending me over the bars and breaking my scaphoid. I did finish the race and score enough to move up to Cat3 after 2 races. My main problem is with low weight but still generally low power sticking with heavier more powerful riders on the flat seems tough.
My aim next season is to move up to elite MTB but I reckon I'll need to build another 40-50 watts to be competitive. Got a tough winter ahead

Good luck, it is possible!

Sebgt you sound pretty well endowed genetically 🙂

Small buggers always do better at MTB.

Also, your diet change sounds quite radical which will probably make it unsustainable. If you truly do press on towards 5w/kg, you'll have NathB's new problem- struggling to eat enough 😆

As a small bugger i'd dispute that, being small isn't all good at all.
As sebgt pointed out, with small weight comes small power and over rough sections (which are pretty common when mtbing) you are at a serious disadvantage.
Where being small is at its best is a nice smooth steep road climb.

I would have thought it would be tough, I have always weighed give or take 66 kgs and I have been training up to 14 hours a week and got to 310 FTP, which is about 4.7w/kg. I think the only way I could get it higher is with a time machine (I'm 41), giving up work & family and being ultra picky about diet. Still not managed to progress beyond cat3, although I did nail cat 3 in 4 days earlier this year. As said above, power on the flat, and low max power means I struggle to place in flat road races.

It will be interesting to see what he can achieve if he really has a sprinter's body.

How are you measuring FTP? On the turbo? I always found it far far more difficult to maintain power on a turbo that I knew I could do on the road. Maybe 15-20% less for the same RPE.

Definitely a sprinter, rode with a new road club chaingang last week and didn't realise at the end we'd entered a sprint race for the final stop (I just thought we'd picked it up a bit). When I realised what was happening I opened it up and dropped 95% of the field. Ask anyone who rides with me and they'll tell you I'm happiest when sprinting.

As I say I haven't properly measured it yet. I'm using a tacx vortex for power. At 265 my hr is at a level I know I can hold for a long time. At 280 it's at a level I know will tire but at what point I don't know. It's currently an estimate. Will do a proper test when I've shifted a cold I've had since Wednesday.

I would be interested to see how your experiment goes, but I'm more interesting to see how general stamina and endurance last as weight goes down and what sort of training regime you manage to work in around daily life.

Yeh I'm conscious as I drop weight my power might start coming down too. Won't know until it happens though.

Training at the minute is loose as I'm more focused on a highly strict diet to shift the weight but loosely for the next 8 weeks until I break for 6 weeks off in the summer (school teacher)

Monday- zone 2 commutes plus turbo hiit
Tuesday- mtb night ride with club
Wednesday- road chainring
Thursday- zone 2 commutes + hiit in the evening.
Friday- heavy squats
Sat or Sun one long ride minimum 4 hours. Rest the other day.

Plus, presuming that number in your username is your DOB then there's your age to consider too.

But you are likely to make some serious gains, be healthier, faster, fitter and happier so go for it!

Good luck with the project

Cheers, it's not... I'm 34 born in 82. Long story behind the username

Yeah but you have FS to help you out. I always felt big at XC races, I'm only 5'11. Perhaps it depends where you are racing and the terrain.

I no longer have a powertap, so I can't really get a quantitive answer on whether or not squats help. I have a feeling that weight training is playing to my personal strengths.

[img] [/img]

This 'suggested hours' chart From Friel may be an eye opener too.
The Coggan chart puts 5.0w/kg ftp as being a US cat1 which Friel would imply you'd need 700-1000 hours per year to achieve.

700 a year is achievable 1000 probably not quite.

Out of interest, how many hours have you done in 2017 so far?

One of the reasons I love the Training Bible so much is that it addresses all of these points and quantifies them.

I *think* he says you will struggle with volume increases of greater than 15% per year......

Will be interested to follow, pre children (2 years ago now...) I started taking things serious, similar height at 5'11 dropped to around 72kg started going lower but wife commented I looked ill. FTP was in the region of 300 for that period. About 10hrs riding per week, 5 hours stretching and strength, very strict diet So just over 4w/kg was enough for me to start taking koms locally (the ones not held by a local clubs peloton) when I gave it some beans and a pretty good finish at big dog. If you were to get to 5w/kg that would be very very impressive.

I have my own challenge to keep some form through the first 6 months of #2 try to keep my weight around 78 and my FTP around 280

Ah.. it was on the next page 😆

It says 5-10% annual increase unless you're well short of your target Cat in which case 15% max.

Out of interest, how many hours have you done in 2017 so far?

One of the reasons I love the Training Bible so much is that it addresses all of these points and quantifies them.

I *think* he says you will struggle with volume increases of greater than 15% per year..

It's varied a lot. I've had a period this year where I was doing 150 to 200 miles per week. Some weeks as low as 30 miles. Really not been "training" at all, just riding.

Just checked Strava 1500 miles so far this year. About 500 are serious mountain bike miles though so probably equivalent to having done about 2000 road miles so far this year.

Still been doing a bit of weight training in top of this though so body is used to regular beating.

I don't believe volume is the key to greater power output though, structured training to increase power is what I'm going with for that on top of my current riding. As I've said though... first phase is to shift 13kg or so of weight whilst keeping my legs the size and power they are at 83kg.

I know I can get a far higher power output on my Vortex than in real life, fairly sure it overreads substantially. Once I get my P1s fixed I'll do a comparison. I can sit at 330w for 25 minutes on my Vortex, barely even done 300w outside.

Doesn't necessarily mean the Vortex is wrong, but it feels too high to me.

Interesting. I bought it based in great reviews about it's accuracy lol.

Saying that, I reckon I must be pushing those kind of wattage otherwise my current wpkg would be too poor for some of the strava times I put in. Got a few top 10s on a ride the other day without targeting anything (976 people on one of the boards). I'm inclined to think mine seems about right.. I've got no way if verifying it though. Can't imagine tacx creating a product that is out by miles though?

Anyway. That's me done...

Will post back when I've done my first FTP test properly

If you have the cash, a watt bike would be the ideal tool, if measurment is your goal. it would allow you to accurateley see week to week where you are going fitness wise. at the moment you are just using quess work.

@chilled, despite improvements in training methods for time crunched athletes, there is still a very strong correlation between volume and results.

Read up on polarised training - it seems most elite athletes across all endurance sports are still doing huge quantities of low intensity work.

Think most riders up around your target power are doing 15-20hrs/wk on the bike, and i suspect in many cases that means they have a particularly understanding/flexible employer.

Definitely keep us updated though as it'll be an interesting journey.

You can certainly get round the FW without 5w/kg, that's for sure.

I don't think you'll get to that figure though, good genes are a requirement, and the fact you say you're a sprinter makes me think you've got the wrong genes?

A mate went for a physiology test at (i think) loughborough uni; do one of them, that should tell you if you'll be able to get anywhere close.

Can't imagine tacx creating a product that is out by miles though?

Well obviously they don't try and do it, its just how it is. Like I say, could be right, I actually always thought my P1s underread slightly, and I never had my PowerTap at the same time to compare.

It's a bit of a moot point, as long as it's consistent the number isn't all that important unless you're using multiple devices and/or comparing to people in the pub/internet.

Strava is a totally pointless yardstick though. I have (/had) about 50 KOMs, but would struggle to hit 4w/kg for an hour. You've already said you're a powerful rider, presumably it wasn't an hour long segment you were in the top 10 of?

As you say, see where you are, I look forward to watching your journey. It's certainly an ambitious target.

Strava is a totally pointless yardstick though. I have (/had) about 50 KOMs, but would struggle to hit 4w/kg for an hour.

My ftp is about 2w/kg and I've got a few KOMs so clearly an awful yardstick 🙂

Yeh good point.

Should be consistent with itself though and I'd trust them to have made something that's within 10% accuracy... I'll be taking it back if not lol

Strava is a totally pointless yardstick though.

I dunno, I think it's the only one that matters 🙂

I'm beasting myself to get a local KOM, it doesn't matter much if I increase my power to do so or reduce my weight. Or does it?

Re the tacx trainers, I have the Bushido, one model up from the vortex, and when new it seemed accurate, but my power FTP tests were going down even though i was clearly getting fitter. Calibration was always the same but it seemed to be loosing watts over time, which was proven when i got a power meter. Changing to a new turbo tyre brought it closer to the pm again but still reads 10-15% lower. Fortunately traineroad has a power match feature so I can train correctly

But to say "my power output must be high because Strava" is flawed. If you said "because I'm winning 2nd cat races" then maybe!

Should be consistent with itself though and I'd trust them to have made something that's within 10% accuracy... I'll be taking it back if not lol

Early Tacx turbos with power (going back 10 years) were utterly laughable, more like 50% in some cases!

Yeh.. although it was more of a "it can't be much lower" kind of comment.

Local gym has a watt bike. I'll see if I can get ad hoc membership to do am occasional check in to see how my turbo stacks up.

For now it'll have to do.

That's a good shout. Interesting comment about the Bushido drifting. Like I say, the actual number isn't all that important as long as it's repeatable.

One of the first things to do is find a decent coach and get tested properly to see where you actually are (VO2Max, FTP, %fat etc) and see if there is a sensible route to getting 5W/Kg. Or if its one of those things where you need to lose so much weight/do so much training you'll end up as a monk. FWIW many clean riders at that sort of power do live like monks, until the last race of the season. Then they don't for a couple of weeks, then it all starts again.

Nothing funnier than a load of cyclists "letting their hair down". Mostly consists of blind drunk on 5 beers and eating a WHOLE PIZZA WITHOUT GOING TRAINING FIRST!!!111!1!!1!!1.
Yeah, i've done it. I regret nothing. Really.

Oh, and friends/family will think you are ill when you get fitter, it's actually a sad/funny/good indicator, when people ask if you are eating properly. FWIW at fittest i was in the realms of 330-340W FTP, low/mid 60s for weight, and i'm still just short of 180 tall. (Not a sprinter) My mum worried about me all the time, my other half watched me eating. So had no worries about food intake. Except paying for groceries.

As another thing, when you get into the lower weights/higher powers/more training, watch out for getting ill. Kids, work places, partners, they'll all give you horrible diseases. Bastrads

And if you've not already got one (haven't read every post) get a PM too.

You'll need to move from miles to hours.

Week in week out is the issue. I've averaged 8hrs 20minutes a week for the last 2 years. That takes account of low load weeks (every 4th week) some injury, a house move and quite a lot of illness the majority of which has, I think, been caused by my training/fitness.

In 3 years I've moved from 3.7W/kg to 4.57W/kg. I don't believe the actual figure but it's the same Stages on the same course and I do believe the improvement. I'm coached.

I'll never get to a true 5W/kg. I could concievably do 5W/kg over 20minutes next year if all goes very well (and it isn't, I'm ill again) but to then multiply by 0.95 - no chance.

But to say "my power output must be high because Strava" is flawed.

Depends who or what you are comparing against innit. It's equally flawed to say 'my stats say I am awesome' when you are in the 50% range on the busy climbs.

I know what you mean, of course, but it's one of those things - Strava is or isn't the bottom line depending on your point of view.

Serious numbers - look forward to seeing your progress if you share it here. I'm lucky with Watt bikes within a few mins of my office, doing a lot of hiit, hill work etc but can't get close to this. Have lost a good few kg's trying though 🙂

Any increase is a win, sure you will have fun going for it. Make sure you don't push too hard / overtrain, it can set you back quite a bit.

No. you'll need 14 hours a week, about 450-500 km and intensity in that too. I upped my volume by 33% this year to 400/week with every 4th week at a lower volume but same intensity, and I'm 49, 68 kg and about 4.8 watts/kg. About a quarter of my volume is racing. The jump to 5 is very tough. But good luck.

And for XC race no, you will need to factor in technical skills training too.

Great thread and very interesting, will follow

Yes you can hit 5w/kg in that time frame from your start point if you have some dodgy scales, dodgy PM, hit some short term rapid weight loss, etc, etc... 😉

A solid 5w/kg would need a good few years of consistent, focused and smart training/ diet IMO. I would agree with what others have already said whereby the aim of hitting 5w/kg should be akin to "I aim to be able to hang at the front of elite races" which might sound easier but would be quite the opposite IMO!

If you think in that context it also begs the question "why 5w/kg"? Why not try to be the fastest you can? Would you sacrifice total w's for w/kg for example and does this realistically suit the type of rider you are?

It is an interesting question, but I guess my overall thinking is it would be a monumental achievement in your time frame and there may be more low hanging fruit to getting faster/ better time in the event

I can waffle at length about the Vortex's limitations if you like... It's very temperature sensitive. As a minimum you should do a spindown after 5 or 10 minutes at workout intensity. Otherwise it may be plenty more than 10% out. Mine can drift by 5% _within_ a 5 minute interval on a cold day.

Ok. We've got evidence the Vortex isn't properly up to the job in the long run.

Its a bench mark though and will have to do for now, I've considered buying a watt bike but it will have to wait 6 months. For now the Vortex with TAC x software and also trainer road software will have to do due to finances.

I'm really looking forward to the progress of this, keep us updated as much as you can with the good and the bad.

Whether you can achieve it or not doesn't matter, your ambition's great and the fact you prepared to share your goals is brilliant, if a little mad, especially in here 😉

Good luck OP

This will be a good thread, keep us in the loop. 5w/kg..that will be a mighty impressive feat if you achieve it. Be an interesting journey. I'm 50yo 6' and 73kg, my last FTP was 273 sometime in January and since then it has certainly gone up. I've put in about 3000 miles since then, some structured but mostly just riding cos I like riding. The discipline that's going to be needed to acheive a goal like the OP's is admirable. I only work 24 weeks a year but still struggle to find the time to ride some weeks and I couldn't give up chocolate either!!.

Just to chip in on your FW target - I just did it in 7h dead after a solid winter of TrainerRoad (Base, Sustained Power Build, Climbing Speciality). I'm 65kg and around 250ftp so about 3.6w/kg. For that time my Avg Power was 178w, so nothing crazy. Training (and the weather) made that possible though, quickest I had done before was 7h48.

If you get near the numbers you're aiming for, you'd be looking close to 'winning' - my riding buddy hits 4.6w/kg and he was 12th fastest on the day.

As others have said, a physiological session with a trainer is golden. I did one with a Guy from BC this spring and it was worth every penny to speak with someone so knowledgable.

Good luck with your goal though, I'll be watching with interest!

Watching this with interest - similar build and background to the OP, but never got near a KOM..... probably due to a shockingly bad diet!

Good luck!

I'm 6ft; 4 years ago I weighed 95kg and riding a bike for 6/7 miles was an achievement. A radical change in diet (no junk food and meat) and a weekly 7 mile cycle, which eventually turned into a 50 mile fasted cycle plus I started running too. All that had me dropping weight so quickly people thought I was ill. 18 months later I was 65kg and I actually looked ill, turns out I was (but that's another story). But now I'm happily 70kg so that's where I am staying.

Unfortunately I don't have the stats to prove this, but losing weight while cycling and running I think I retained a large proportion of my leg mass (all be it turning it into muscle instead of fat). I have just started a structured training program with circa 15/16 hours a week built in, on my first week this equated to 306 miles. My target is also 5w/kg, currently 4.51w/kg, but to get there I'm in no doubt that volume (hours) and polarisation are the key!

I'm sorry... Regarding the Vortex; I've had two brand new ones that gave me an FTP of over 5w/kg, both calibrated correctly and using an official Tacx Turbo tyre. I hired a stages power meter and in reality it was actually 4.36w/kg, I later bought one as they're so useful for training consistently.

This should highlight it, the 3rd Jan being the last one using a vortex: https://www.zwiftpower.com/profile.php?id=8544067

As others have said, a physiological session with a trainer is golden. I did one with a Guy from BC this spring and it was worth every penny to speak with someone so knowledgable.

What did you do on this?

I suspect most people in the thread will have seen this, but this chart astounds me.

[img] [/img]

If you are on the south coast and want to get properly tested the guys at silent uni are very good too. Found out I had a particularly good vo2 max

the guys at silent uni

Are they like monks or something?

Some good feedback on this thread.

FWIW I went from around 78kg and about 260W to 71kg and over 350W. Though I was previously a quick 68kg runner who'd got injured, then fat and untrained when I became a dad, so potential was there. Took about 4 years of increasing levels of seriousness/commitment to get there (though aim has been to get better at racing, not some w/kg target.) A lot of steady winter miles off a low carb diet to turn myself into an efficient cyclist. A lot of polarised training in spring. Racing in summer. Quite a lot of questioning the sanity of it all 😕

At 5w/kg your approching pro-road level. Are you really that good?

It really isn't. I'm really not. I'd say it's at the level of a decent club racer.

Tips would be to get a coach, get a plan, get a power meter, set incremental goals, always be progressing, make your training specific to your goals. Oh and ride your bike, a lot, outdoors. Good luck 😀

I suspect most people in the thread will have seen this, but this chart astounds me.

Think that chart can set some false expectations, certainly in terms of category for UK racing. If you look at a cat 1 racer for example, they might have numbers that fall roughly into those ranges. But it definitely doesn't mean that if you have numbers that fall into those ranges that you can rock up at a cat 1 race and be competitive.

I think blobby's post gives a good idea of what it would take. 5w/kg isn't pro but it is a bloody good amateur level. I've been in testing with GB development athletes (XC) and they were low 5's for some context. Yes some were higher but as blobby also alluded to numbers don't necessarily make you ride fast and the craft takes a hell of a long time to master.

On road.. less so on MTB I suspect?

On road.. less so on MTB I suspect?

You can have a great engine but you need the rad skillz off road... 😉

Demands are different. And for progressing in UK road racing having repeatable big watts and a good sprint is more important than being light weight IMO. Though with the OP's aim of a good placing in FW, good w/kg (and getting the kg as low as possible) seems sensible (though not ridden it so probably not best placed to comment.)

Lolz at that vid 🙂

For anyone else as confused as I was when I started reading this thread, FTP = Functional Threshold Power, not File Transfer Protocol.

As you were 😀

Solent uni.

Bloody spellcheck

Interesting thread... OP sounds similar to my level of fitness right now, and although I have no interest in (putting the effort in to get to) 5 w/kg, we all want to be fitter don't we? So will try to pick up some tips.

Just googled "polarised training"... is this the latest & greatest thing? And have I sort of been doing it accidentally?! i.e. Short hard sessions like Zwift & SCR a few times a week but generally taking it much easier with longer, relaxed rides (& trying to increase length/duration of those?)

is this the latest & greatest thing?

I'd always heard that mixing it up was a good idea...

I've got a friend who's done really well in triathlon (was 1 place off representing GB at Iron Man distance a few years back), and he's always said to me do 80% of your training in zone 2 and then the other 20% needs to be really hard.

I've never heard it called polarized before but it's the same principle.

I try and keep my commutes in zone 2 to help with this balance.

Think that chart can set some false expectations, certainly in terms of category for UK racing

I always love that chart. Everyone focuses on the RHS (FTP), and yes, 4.5-5 W/kg will see you competitive in the sense you'll be finishing at the pointy end of the bunch in Cat 2/3 road races. Sadly the POINTS end of the spectrum tends to be found on the LHS with peak power. Unless there is a nice uphill finish. I'm rubbish on those flat circuits. But then I play domestique instead.

I guess for Xc, it's the same, except if you can't handle a bike off-road properly, you won't get there either.

Get FTP or die trying.

In the case of your target I predict death will come first.

Would your Fred target (or another event) not make a better training goal than an arbitrary W/kg value?
You can still use power to weight as a measure of progress towards your goal.

Will you really look back and remember the day you did X W/kg in an FTP test? I bet you'll remember a day out battling big climbs in the Lakes, achieving your target time and impressing your mates, on the other hand. I'd consider what your real goal is, and pick something inspiring that you can really look forward to.

I try and keep my commutes in zone 2 to help with this balance.

First time I've done it properly it was for a 9 week block earlier this year. It was hard. Learnt a lot. If you're doing the hard stuff properly then you'll likely not be able to manage much more than z2 the rest of the time 😉

TBH I'm not sure I'd recommend it as something to do until you have a good base built with a year or two of z2, long tempo blocks, and the more traditional sweet spot 2x20 work.

In the case of your target I predict death will come first.

😆

Anyone used the Watts per Kilo tool here: http://www.marcellobrivio.com/projects/strava-toolbox/watts-per-kilogram-ranking.php

It makes for some depressing reading...my best in the last 30 days, 3.18w/k