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Decided to try one of these. My bike setup was working fine but I wasn't convinced I had it properly dialed and was getting the most out of it.
I'd been following various setup guides, I can appreciate pressure differences but am not really sensitive enough to tell the difference between a few clicks of damping adjustments. So although I learnt what all the adjustments do and their effects, I couldn't apply it that well to tune the setup. Of course that could also imply it's good enough for me, but for me if something can be calibrated/adjusted then I'll damn well have to do that.
Background info to start - 140/130mm trail bike, Pike Ultimate RCT3 and Deluxe Ultimate (both just had the 50h service). 75kg kitted rider weight. Fork on 65psi, 2 tokens, -9 rebound (from slowest), LSC full open. Shock on 145psi, no tokens, -5 rebound (from slowest), LSC neutral (middle).
Started with the fork, it scores 78/100. Doesn't detect any problems, but wants less air and more ramp. Added another token (now 3), removed 5psi (now 60psi). Feels more conforming on rocky and rooty terrain, goes through the travel a little quicker on landings. Score 82/100, still wants less air. I'm not going lower with air as I already know 55psi doesn't give enough support to weigh the front wheel. So I start flipping between the tuning styles against the already-collected session, changing from Balanced (neutral stiffness, poppy liveliness) to custom mode. With stiffness set to firm, it's happy with the air pressure. And I leave the liveliness on poppy as I want some help with popping the bike but don't want it to be bouncing me off. It still wants slower rebound, which makes sense as I didn't change the liveliness, so 2 clicks slower (now -7). Doesn't feel any different but now scores 86/100. Still wants more ramp, I disagree so leave it at that. It also wants softer LSC but I already have it all the way open so it'll have to do.
Now onto the shock. In the same firm-poppy tuning style, it scores 88/100 with no suggestions on my first lap, then 96/100 on the next but wants more air. That I ignore because I know I caused it on one big jump that's bigger than any others I know of. I keep it on the firm stiffness to match the front and because I want to keep the ride height up due to the low BB. I was wondering why I need 3 tokens in the fork but none in the shock for balance, but figured it's because the fork is linear while the rear has a progressive linkage.
So in summary so far, -5psi +1 token and 2 clicks slower rebound on the fork, and nothing on the shock. And maybe get the fork LSC adjuster adjusted when it goes in for a service. Not many clicks for the money (even at black Friday prices), but that's hardly the point. I hadn't much idea if my rebound settings were good, especially the shock which I just had on halfway. There's definitely a confirmation bias aspect to it as you choose the tuning style, and there's no such thing as "correct" setup - it's all down to you. I'm interested in what it'll tell me on different types of terrain, less trail centre, more natural and XC.
For comparison:
RockShox TrailHead: fork 83psi, 1 token (factory default), -10 rebound
Initial home setup: fork 75psi (18% sag), 2 tokens (as delivered), -8 rebound (compress-release test); shock 140psi (30% sag)
Refined setup: fork 65psi, 2 tokens, -9 rebound (compensating for pressure); shock 145psi (to lift ride height), -5 rebound (to prevent bucking)
After ShockWiz: fork 60psi, 3 tokens, -7 rebound; shock unchanged
Interested to hear any of your experiences or further suggestions.
I borrowed one for a couple of rides. On the ride with faster, rougher terrain it told me I needed a bit more pressure and an extra token. On the gentler ride it told me I needed a bit less and to take one out. Had to give it back after to at but took it as a reasonable endorsement of ‘good enough’!
I’ve rented them each time I’ve had a new set up and take them to a couple of my favourite areas, get a good few hours in. I’ve been able to then get good set ups for my different riding locations. But yes, it does tend to confirm my setups rather than suggest radical alternatives.
Useful to minimise packing, bobbing and pogoing, but most of the rest is personal preference. It wants me to run the LSC and HSC off on my Pike Ultimates and is pushing for more spacers / less pressure, but at 28% sag, I don't want to go lower. The Super Deluxe is coming on well, but I suspect I need another volume spacer, despite it indicating it is OK.
Go the Fox X2 feeling really good, as I could change all of the settings as suggested. I like it neutral / planted as I don't go fast / jump etc due to lack of talent.
I do wonder if the setup procedure variation makes any difference eg. Do you zero the sag under the weight of the bike or weight off the wheels ?
I borrowed one for a couple of rides. On the ride with faster, rougher terrain it told me I needed a bit more pressure and an extra token. On the gentler ride it told me I needed a bit less and to take one out. Had to give it back after to at but took it as a reasonable endorsement of ‘good enough’!
Pretty much this, borrowed one, recommended different, minor adjustments dependant on ride/terrain type.
As I’m not a serial suspension faffer I took it that I was close enough on my initial settings and went with that. I guess if you’re clueless where to start or want to set up for a DH race weekend it would be good, but wouldn’t warrant buying one for me.
I’ve rented them each time I’ve had a new set up.
I was intending to rent, but when I saw one new for a good price decided to buy. Glad I did, as I didn't have to rush the process and could just incorporate it into normal rides.
It wants me to run the LSC and HSC off on my Pike Ultimates and is pushing for more spacers
I'd like it if it explained its reasoning for the recommendations it makes despite detecting no issues. As it is, I'm having to reverse-engineer them in my head and guess why.
Go the Fox X2 feeling really good, as I could change all of the settings as suggested. I like it neutral / planted as I don’t go fast / jump etc due to lack of talent.
I do get the impression that RockShox is easier to set up reasonably well for the average rider, and not just because most models have less dials to fiddle with. The recommendations I get for high and low-speed usually always match, so I don't miss separate high/low speed adjusters. It did tell me on one trail that it wanted softer HSC but firmer LSC on the shock, although I think I may have caused that by absent-mindedly messing about with manualling attempts during the session.
Planted for liveliness didn't sound attractive as I have enough trouble getting off the ground for hops already. Neutral for firmness for me wouldn't give enough support to press into, and put the ride height too low.
I do wonder if the setup procedure variation makes any difference eg. Do you zero the sag under the weight of the bike or weight off the wheels ?
It says to pull the suspension to full extension for zeroing.
I guess if you’re clueless where to start or want to set up for a DH race weekend it would be good, but wouldn’t warrant buying one for me.
I'll echo that. Also if you've spent a shedload on Fox Factory you might want to spend a little bit more (relatively) to get the most out of it. I might sell mine once I've had enough of it.
I was playing with mine today. I'd say it definitely has helped. My default position when I have an average run is that I'm the weakest link and it's all rider error.
On thing I wish it did (and kind of assumed it would) is use a database of known forks/shocks and only give you recommendations for the stuff you have control over. If I've only got rebound rather than high and low speed rebound - just give me that. Or even, if (guessing a bit here) I don't have a specific adjustment available to me could it be if it knows that it would adjust something (or things) else a bit to get a better compromise than just not doing the thing it reconments because you can't.
I was playing with mine today. I’d say it definitely has helped. My default position when I have an average run is that I’m the weakest link and it’s all rider error.
Still talking about the ShockWiz? 😛
I think it's important you record what you're doing, it helps you understand how changing one adjuster can effect others
And it looks like you've done that.
Different terrain benefits from different setup but, realistically I can't be bothered to change much, so have a regular local xcish setup and more pressure + damping setup for steep dh stuff for the fork.
but found the rear I just use the trail or descend on the 3 position rear.
Well done on not blindly following Shockwiz recommendations.
Shockwiz lies. Not intentionally but it doesn't know what you've ridden or how you've ridden it.
I ordered 3x Shockwiz as soon as they came on the market. Intention was to get some feedback from GF (now wife's) bike (both ends) and have one spare to move around on other bikes as I saw fit. I've got a lot of experience with Shockwiz.
IME, Shockwiz gets it right when I'm pinned on demanding "gravity" terrain. I've been perfectly happy with an 82-88% score for my more general riding as long as there are no "detections".
The other day, I did a session on the eMTB at Comrie Croft where my setup wasn't right and Shockwiz offered random suggestions (shock) with a score of 82. Ignoring those suggestions and instead raising the shock pressure to counter "mince pie" weight and push some grip up front, second lap I was able to ride "harder". Shockwiz suddenly agreed I had the right setup with 100%. I also use "custom" and after a session, I flick between multiple tuning styles - the app updates its recommendations after you change the tuning style. It was giving 100% for firm-active, firm-poppy (my go-tos) and possibly a couple of others. I always checkout "firmest" and "normal" to bracket where the setup is.
So Shockwiz hints can be useful but you definitely need to parse them. FWIW, my Lyriks are at their best on Trailhead pressures - I don't see full travel until I hit a ride with decent g-outs and Shockwiz 100% gets that wrong. There's nothing wrong with riding around only using 130mm travel on a 170mm fork if you're only hitting 130mm terrain and Shockwiz doesn't have enough information to tell the difference.
The obvious issue is, that Shockwiz can't set for XC and DH in the same setting on the same bike... What works perfectly at BPW isn't necessarily what you want on the South Downs Way.... But Shockwiz can't see your terrain, it can only measure how hard it's working.
That was the only fault and criticism i could throw at the Shockwiz, other than that it was great.
that Shockwiz can’t set for XC and DH in the same setting on the same bike
I 'think' it sort of can- though not obviously the same setting but different profiles. I've sort of made the assumption that the efficient/balanced/playful/aggressive could be roughly translated to xc->trail->enduro/DH. So I use that as a starting point on a do it all trail bike to set it up for XC-like (or rather old skool very tame XC as the current crop of xc riders do stuff on xc bike I can only dream of), standard trails or downhill only orientated bpw style riding.
I've been anal enough to save different profiles for my fork and shock called 'Pike Wolftrax Reds' and 'Pike Burma Road' etc with the pressures and numbers of clicks noted. I've drawn the line at changing the number of tokens between rides but I guess it could be done. Also, living somewhere that does a good amount of cold, that seems to nause up settings too.
Yeah i absolutely get you, but i did mean within a single setup rather than having 2 profiles...
I'm not convinced many riders swap suspension settings based upon their next ride....
I'd be interested to know if some do though.
I’d be interested to know if some do though.
I didn't used to - mostly as I said above as I'd always assumed my riding was the weakest link and if it didn't feel right it was because I was not doing it right. I still am the weakest link but with the shockwiz I feel I have a fighting chance of giving myself a fighting chance! The app helps too, storing all the information. Though of course a bit of paper would have done that just as well!
So now, yes I am prepared to change settings depending on the ride I 'think' I've got ahead of me. I guess if you don't want that faff (or all your riding is on very similar terrain) you just have to find the compromise collection of settings that works best for most stuff you do, appreciating it might not be ideal all the time. My bike will do all day in hills largely on estate tracks style riding on one day, swoopy loamy stuff in the woods the next, then short black rocky high speed downhills the following weekend so I 'think' there is a benefit to the tinkering.
On thing I wish it did (and kind of assumed it would) is use a database of known forks/shocks and only give you recommendations for the stuff you have control over.
It could also look up the compression ratio, would save us the challenge of squashing things to full compression so it can take a reading. On that note, if anyone else has a 2021 Pike, it's 3.3 with 2 tokens and 3.7 with 3. And a Deluxe is 2.5 with no tokens.
There’s nothing wrong with riding around only using 130mm travel on a 170mm fork if you’re only hitting 130mm terrain and Shockwiz doesn’t have enough information to tell the difference.
True, on an XC grassy hills type ride I'll sometimes only use 50% both ends of 140/130. Following ShockWiz I'd have some crazy low pressure and the bike would be wallowy and riding low getting lots of pedal strikes.
Also, living somewhere that does a good amount of cold, that seems to nause up settings too.
I'm getting anything up to 5psi difference measured by the ShockWiz in my house vs. out on the trail at 2-5 degrees. There's also the effect on damper oil viscosity, but I'd think that would warm up quite soon.
I’m not convinced many riders swap suspension settings based upon their next ride….
For a big day ride with a 16L rucksack, I'll add 5psi to the shock (that's less than 5%), 2psi to the rear tyre, and 1psi to the front tyre. Just to compensate for the extra weight and keep the ground clearance up, it makes a difference with pedal strikes and spurted sealant. I don't do anything to rebound/compression; it'd only be maybe 2 clicks off ideal anyway, and there's value in one predictable setup everywhere. I have it set ideal for trail centre stuff which is the only riding where I'll push myself so that's where I'm most in need of it being right. I've heard of some people running shock rebound fully open on natural rides to help hopping water bars, remember that if you come across a jump though and certainly before hitting the bike park another day.
I still am the weakest link but with the shockwiz I feel I have a fighting chance of giving myself a fighting chance!
Personally it contributes to my confidence a bit knowing that everything on my bike is well-maintained and set-up bang-on.
The app helps too, storing all the information. Though of course a bit of paper would have done that just as well!
I quickly went to paper so I could write down ad-hoc notes and flick through them easier. Took screenshots of the summary/detections/suggestions too. The app loses the previous session once you start the next doesn't it, or is there a way to store?
i borrowed a shockwiz of a mate. kept telling me to take air out of the fork and at one point i was on 40% sag which clearly wasnt right. It then started telling me to put more air in and after a few hours of use it gave me a score of 92% by getting me to set everything back to pretty much the same settings i started with. So in terms of confirmation bias i agreed with it 😉