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There are something like 21 swimming events at the Olympics and yet only 14 cycling, with a number of key track events having been cut (not sure I understand the reasons why they were cut, something to do with making a more equal number of mens and womens events?)
Anyway, what makes swimming so special that it gets so many events versus cycling or any other sport for that matter?
more events per minute. watch the swimming finals. they bash out about 10 in an hour. watch track, 3 or 4 hours in and you get to the semis, only to be told the finals are two days later.
There's quite a lot of "running" races too....
It was a shame the IOC wouldn't grant additional cycling events to the UCI so the UCI had to cut men's track stuff in order to get more equality in the programmes. Losing the points race and madison was no big loss IMO but losing the individual pursuit was a big mistake. Although it is hard to see what else the UCI could have done (if they'd left the IP in then they couldn't have had the omnium and as much as I'd prefer to have the IP over the omnium it wouldn't have been fair to the endurance track riders who would have had no medal chances without the omnium - although even with that they're up against it).
geetee, swimming is a much much bigger sport.
If I had one question it would be why the velodrome was built with only 4 or 5,000 seats. The swimming venue has temporary wings to increase it's capacity for the games. Perhaps the "need" to ensure the air is hot in the velodrome for world records has actually recorded it's potential capacity.
If I had one question it would be why the velodrome was built with only 4 or 5,000 seats.
they had massive height restriction issues at olympic park. think the actual pool is sunk into the ground to counter this, not sure they could have done same with velodrome.
Look at the number of wrestling events they have, never realised there were so many.
Dr Hutch sums it up in the comic
Pick the stroke you'd use if being chased by a crocodile and stick with it
And there are 34 swiming events, not 21. and that's not including
Triathlon (Ok this could be split between bikes and swimmers)
Syncronised swimming
Diving, diving from a bit higher, diving from a bit higher in pairs, etc.
Swimming should be limited to 'freestyle' races, and one relay and/or omnium event. And while we're at it re-write the rules for the walking race and make it an ultra marathon.
I'd bin Hammer Throw, Synchronised Swimming and Wrestling to make way for some more proper sports.....
Swimming is simply better to watch than cycling, easier to understand and followed by more people. Some of the cycling races are daft.
footflaps - Member
I'd bin Hammer Throw, Synchronised Swimming and Wrestling to make way for some more proper sports.....
You suck at them?
You suck at them?
Never tried, but can't say I'd miss them from the Olympics.
can't say I'd miss them from the Olympics
Meanwhile over on Hammerthrowingtrackworld/Wrestlingtrackworld, they are moaning about mountain biking being an Olympic sport 😉
geetee, swimming is a much much bigger sport.
In what sense?
The number is stupid
You get 100 m medley. 100 m medley with a team
200m medley, 200m medley with a team
Imagine cycling sprint changing to different bikes and then sprinting all of them over different distances and then with a team.
It makes no sense tbh..either go as fast as you can forward or dontWe may as well have Hoy race on a BMX. a 29 er and something that goes backwards
Seems a bit unfair that Phelps can win that many medals in relation to say Ben Ainslie whos event takes a whole week
Freestyle, backstroke, breaststroke, fly
Track, road, bmx, mtb
surely swimming is unquestionabkly more 'olympics' than bobbling round in a boat for a week though?
@Junkyard - in terms of the numbers of people belonging to clubs and racing week in week out across the world.
@tracknicko - thanks for the height reply unfortunately that makes sense (I got swimming tickets but couldn't get anything for velodrome). I think you'll find sailing is a bigger competitive sport in the UK than biking and it's been in the games for a long time, it is also under huge pressure as it's not very TV friendly. They've introduced kite surfing for Rio but over the years have lost a number of events as a result of IOC action.
Pretty sure more folk own bikes than swim..I give you China as my first case 😉 You have been quite selective to get that and I am not convinced it is true either?
Can you google fact it for me?
The jumping is a bit odd too
You've got the high jump and the long jump - fair enough
But then you have the hop, skip and a jump ??
I dont see why they reduced the number. The only constraints should be that they have to fit them into the duration of the Olympics. Afterall once you have built the velodrome you might aswell make the most of it
surely swimming is unquestionabkly more 'olympics' than bobbling round in a boat for a week though?
Or football, basketball, beach volley ball and tennis
I think the sailing is pretty good especially when Ben AInsley offered the Dane out for a fight.
can someone link to the crocodile comic, sounds funny.
"Swimming is simply better to watch than cycling,"
[img] 
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Why not combine them?
[img] 
[/img]
Swimming is simply better to watch than cycling,
really? i find it mind numbingly boring. it's just blobs moving up and down a blue rectangle.
i can see a counter argument about cycling coming, but you can't crash in swimming, you can't have physical contact in swimming, your kit can't go wrong in swimming, you can't slipstream in swimming, you haven't got everyone aiming for the same track position in swimming, swimming is slower, it's less dangerous etc etc etc
it really is a dull sport to watch.
(i don't actually find track cycling all that exciting either, other than a GB final).
Freestyle, backstroke, breaststroke, flyTrack, road, bmx, mtb
Aye, but there's one road race gold medal, one BMX, one MTB, and admittedly several track.
Within each stroke there are 100, 200, 400, 800, plus relays, plus medleys, plus the odd longer one, so at least 6 medals, with many contested by the same people.
It's all very well saying Michael Phelps is the greatest Olympian ever because he's won the most medals, and not detracting from his achievements, but in no other discipline can any one athlete win 8 gold medals!
I think it's a bit odd I must say.
I also get annoyed with Becky Adlington having repeatedly said "my sport is harder than the others", I've not heard any other athlete say this when justifying why they've not won gold, she's done it twice in (the few) interviews I've watched. None of the sports are easy FFS!
i don't actually find track cycling all that exciting either, other than a GB final
The track cycling has got less interesting now that it's one athlete per nation per event. It's diluted the talent, especially in the sprint disciplines. Basically it's turned into a procession through to the finals for Bauge and Kenny in Men's Sprint and Pendleton and Meares in Women's. Means you can't have Kenny and Hoy or Pendleton and Varnish racing each other, it's brought in a fair few riders who frankly aren't anywhere near that level of competition and are just making up the numbers.
Stupid rule - can you see them bringing that into the swimming or athletics?
The only bit that I've struggled with in the number of events in different sports thing is the whole "Phelps is the greatest Olympian" thing all last week because of his medal tally. Blatantly an odd single measurement to use when depending on your sport you could be able to compete for just the one medal every 4 years or 8 as he did last time. And that's before you add, quality of other competitors, number of games attended, era and longevity of records, manner the races were won, personality, legacy & background story to the mix. Greatest Olympian swimmer - yes; great "athlete" - too many other factors to make that assumption.
Gymnastics all round final limited to 2 per country. The girl who came 4th didn't qualify for the final even though people 20 places below her did
Why not combine these boring swimming / cycling events with the Javlin and Hammer.
Imagine how fast you would swim/cycle if you were a target for the throwing contest. Much more fun, and elimination heats would be real elimination 🙂
What about trampolining ? I didnt see any coverage of that on the TV, did anyone watch it.
I also get annoyed with Becky Adlington having repeatedly said "my sport is harder than the others", I've not heard any other athlete say this when justifying why they've not won gold, she's done it twice in (the few) interviews I've watched. None of the sports are easy FFS!
Yep - deminished her a bit in my eyes. Yes, the life of an olympic swimmer is super tough but she is going to make few friends outside swimming saying thing things like that and, you know what, someone doing what she does has to be so insular I very much doubt she is truely aware how hard most of the other folk in different sports have to work & how competative they are to be qualified to make that statement.
you can't have physical contact in swimming
not with that kind of attitude!
Given that you have the Triathlon with one person doing three events, surely there is a new event here in cycling.
Bradley Wiggins doing the first road bit, Mark Cavendish climbing a hill, Danny Hart going DH, someone else doing an XC leg finishing, bit of BMX with points for style and then ending with a 1500m sprint. Now that I would watch!
why are there lots of swimming events ? USA got 16 of it's 28 golds and 30 out of 60 in total from the pool, that's why.
I do find it surprising with all the money spent building the velodrome why they don't try and maximise its use? You have a two week window so cram in as much as you can?
Bring in Tandem sprinting.
Stupid rule - can you see them bringing that into the swimming or athletics?
Well swimming was cut from 3 swimmers per country per event a few years ago to 2 iirc.
On the news this morning I caught something about one of the 100m sprinters only started training in January, there's been various talk about someone only getting a bike when she was 18, rowers only taking the sport up a few years ago. Swimming and gymnastics (and probably some others) seem to start in childhood.
I wonder if the 'harder' she was talking about is about the length of time rather than the training in itself.
but you can't crash in swimming, you can't have physical contact in swimming, your kit can't go wrong in swimming, you can't slipstream in swimming, you haven't got everyone aiming for the same track position in swimming, swimming is slower, it's less dangerous etc etc etc
i suspect the 10km open water swim might be a bit more interesting than the pool events. At least there are no lanes, and the weather can affect it.
standard media mis reporting on a few of those.
i beleive the januray thing was in reference to him quitting playing football to concentrate on 100m, which up to that point he had been training for in tandem
the 18 year old runne rplayed football and trained at that rather than sprinting..its like natural talent counts for something
The rower was chosen for physique
Did Rebecca Romero not swap from Rowing to cycling and Gold in both?
Not much technique to pedal very fast reallly is there
hungry monkey wrote:
your kit can't go wrong in swimming
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[/img]
you can't slipstream in swimming
Well, you can. They don't in the pool though, granted.
it really is a dull sport to watch.
A lot of sports are quite repetitive and dull if you are not into them. Fencing? Table tennis?
Swimming demands a massive amount of technique and all over strength. I think that is why Beccy said it was a hard sport. But yeh, trying to measure how 'hard' a sport is compared to other sports is not worth the bother IMHO.
I do like the 1500m freestyle. Sun Yang is a hero.
Did Rebecca Romero not swap from Rowing to cycling and Gold in both?
When I was at uni we had a competition at the freshers' fayre each year. The person who could get the fastest speed on the turbo trainer got a free membership: Invariably a rower.
I think that is why Beccy said it was a hard sport
She didn't say it was [i]a [/i]hard sport, she said it was harder than the others. The second quote was something like:
"Anyone who says silver or bronze is a failure has never tried my sport"
Appreciate what she meant, but it's not that clear cut. I imagine Cav would have been pretty gutted with Bronze. Not to say that the road race is easier than swimming. In fact, making wild extrapolations and assuming a completely even skill base there is about 1/100 chance of winning the road race, and about 1/2* of winning a swimming medal.
Did Rebecca Romero not swap from Rowing to cycling and Gold in both?
I went for a road ride with a world champion sprint kayaker a few years back, he was bloody strong!
*total guess, you get the point.
Diving, diving from a bit higher, diving from a bit higher in pairs, etc.
LMFAO
I thought I heard Adlington say something along the lines of 'our sport is so much harder...' but honestly I thought it was such a fatuous thing to say that I thought I must have miss heard her. Of course I'm sure she's trained in all other sports and so is very qualified to comment.
As an aside, can anyone suggest a sporting event that combines the physical and mental demands of the Tour?
I thought I heard Adlington say something along the lines of 'our sport is so much harder...'
Yes that sounds familiar! Certainly I thought it was an ill conceived comment, and then she said something similar the next time she didn't win when expected.
Then again, Cav's response in his post-race interview to a question was "what a stupid question, do you know anything about cycling", so perhaps her diplomacy should be commended!
What I can't understand about swimming is how teenagers can be so successful in both the short power events and the longer endurance events. I mean how can a 15 year old beat an adult in 800m? They might be naturally a bit more talented but surely the adult has better technique, experience, physique and likely bigger feet/hands to. I can understand why teenagers can do well in women's gymnastics but not swimming. Can you imagine a 15 year old winning gold in the velodrome?
I have to admit though a lot of cycling is boring to watch (like 120 & 56 laps in the points/scratch races in the omnium...), I'm glad MTB is in but I just know it's going to be pretty boring unless Annie Last is at the front in the women's. DH would be better if TV-friendliness is a major part of deciding on Olympic sports. The BMX should be pretty good at least although I don't like the argy bargy randomness of it when you have a favourite in the running :p The individual pursuit is a decent watch though. I guess the other issue the IOC has to contend with is the sheer number of athletes, the opening ceremony will become a two-day event before long if they allowed more events + more riders per nation per event (although I agree the 1 rider rule in cycling sucks, look at the 100m final yesterday, 3 Jamaicans and 3 yanks - all deservedly there (well, apart from Gaitlin)).
obviously swimming 800 m is easier than riding the tour. what makes the 800 m hard is the training required to reach the top.
I doubt any elite sport is easier than the next though. there will always be someone who will put in more work to win
What I can't understand about swimming is how teenagers can be so successful
We've been having that debate at home all week. I don't get it either. The only suggestion we've come up with is that technique plays a big part.
We were also trying to find any other sport where you see the same thing. In gymnastics the female competitors are very young whereas the men tend to be early 20s. Our answer to that is that the power to weight ratio of women peaks at a young age, they then get heavier but not as a result of muscle mass in the way the men do.
What does it say about a sport then when someone so young can be so competitive?
What does it say about a sport then when someone so young can be so competitive?
Not just that, but they're done so early as well.
I forget who it was in reference to (could have been Becky), but I heard Mark Foster say "good to see that at 24 she's showing that it's not just the young who can remain competitive" 😯
I guess it's something to do with being carted around by Mum and Dad and not having any of the usual responsibilities that adult athletes have. Apart from school, they can be full time athletes?
I forget who it was in reference to (could have been Becky), but I heard Mark Foster say "good to see that at 24 she's showing that it's not just the young who can remain competitive"
It was Addlington (who is just 23) who was saying that one of the reasons she struggles is that now she is a bit old she can't recover from the training as quickly as she used to when she was young. At the time I was thinking - you think its bad now, just wait until you hit 40 for how long it can take to recover!
One of the best things about swimming is the lack of impact related injury issues so its surprising how quickly they burn out at the top level. Maybe it's as much about the lifestyle and mental burn out as it is physical side.
One of the best things about swimming is the lack of impact related injury issues
Aha, that might explain why you can be so competitive at such a young age.
Am I right in thinking that the muscle system develops faster than the bones and ligature system; or something like that? I remember being told that weight training at a young age was dangerous because while the muscles can cope, the bones and joints are still growing and susceptible to damage.
Since swimming is zero impact, it should in theory allow a young athlete to train as hard as an adult.
Aside from that, I also thought that endurance events favoured older competitors compared to events where absolute muscle mass is the principle determining factor.
It is hard toi understand how a 15 year old girl can have peaked at 800 m
GT your arguments sounds plausible in general
However if it was all technique age would not matter
Surley 800 requires some stamina so you would expect it with age?
Phleps is past it at 28 😯
I think they should ditch the sprint event from track cycling... or make riders race it from the start.
Imagine the same 'tactics' in any other sprint race... ridiculous.
TSY you don't enjoy the tactics? I've heard your comments a lot from other people so there must be something in it, but I love to see them figuring each other out.
geetee I'm echoing those other people more than expressing my view. For outsiders to the sport it's more difficult to understand...
'Why aren't they racing?'
Ah I see - you were being ironic. Not like you, are you feeling OK?
explain drafting to them and show them the time difference between the lkm solo sprint and the team one
about 40 secs v 60 secs roughly to explain why they do cat and mouse
Maybe drafting is the general problem with track cycling then.
So the sprint should be dropped from the time table.
I was under the impression that the widely agreed 'hardest' sport was biathlon.
apparently cross country skiing is about as aerobically soul destroying as it can get, mixed in with having to remain bonkers still/focussed to shoot things a million miles away.
tricky
explain drafting to them and show them the time difference between the lkm solo sprint and the team oneabout 40 secs v 60 secs roughly to explain why they do cat and mouse
The team sprint is 3 laps, the 1km 4 laps 🙂
I used to find swimming a bit dull, then my kids did it competitively. After spending hours and hours poolside watching training and travelling to events, now I understand it I find it fascinating to watch. I've been involved in a few sports at a reasonably high level and swimming has by far the hardest training schedule, even the sprinters spend hours in the pool every day.
In terms of the "youth" thing, look at tennis, particularly women can be successful at the top levels of the game in their mid teens.
Phelps is past it at 28, he's the same age as Lockte. Whatever he says it's his ability to stay focused on and committed to the training which is the deciding factor.
The swimming goes on for a week, as does the sailing and the cycling and the athletics. I would argue they all have the same amount of focus from the IOC.
[i]I think they should ditch the sprint event from track cycling... or make riders race it from the start.[/i]
they do it's called the Keirin.
Tennis is a great example where skill and technique play a big part overall and in the women's game, where outright power is lower, might be more of a factor than in the men's game?
I'm asking not telling.
So maybe women are able to attain high levels of competitiveness earlier than men because the differential in muscle mass/strength - whatever is the right term for it - are lower between a 15 year old girl versus a 25 year old woman (for example) than they are between two men of the same age and this is especially so in sports where skill and technique play a bigger role in being competitive than just pure physical ability.
[b]crikey[/b] - Member
I guess it's something to do with being carted around by Mum and Dad and not having any of the usual responsibilities that adult athletes have. Apart from school, they can be full time athletes?
1-3 hours training 5 days a week, if you are lucky after school rather than before. Competitions 1-3 a month and once you are quite good these involve travelling half the length of the country. This level of intensity kicks in about 12 years of age. It only gets tougher from there.
Almost all Olympic level athletes are full time, even the ladies hockey squad collectively agreed to stop working and just train for 12 months. One of the big things lottery funding has done is mean more athletes can be full time.
they do it's called the Keirin
Why don't they just turn that into a 600 mtr sprint?
How about swimming where you get towed behind a boat for 3/4's of the distance then swim the last bit?
Almost all Olympic level athletes are full time, even the ladies hockey squad collectively agreed to stop working and just train for 12 months.
It's kind of how it should be really and the money should be made available for them to do this.
On the other hand, there was always something about the Olympics being the pinnacle of 'amateur' achievement.
I never quite understood this, or even if it ever was this way and if it was, what happened to that ethos?
Since swimming is zero impact, it should in theory allow a young athlete to train as hard as an adult.
Not strictly true, I blame crappy front crawl tecnique in my late teens/early 20's for my bollocksed triceps in my right arm, I can't do a set of shoulder press' in the gym to save my life. I can do 1 rep at a mediochre weight, then that's it, something in there is knotted/torn/rubbing and it wont do it again.
@geetee - women mature physically sooner so a 15yr old women is going to be more competitive than a 15yr old guy. I'm not sure it's about power to weight as such in swimming (whilst it certainly is in gymnastics) it's just the young kids can burst onto the scene as soon as they are ready.
On the other hand, there was always something about the Olympics being the pinnacle of 'amateur' achievement.I never quite understood this, or even if it ever was this way and if it was, what happened to that ethos?
They dropped that a while ago. It's a historical thing which came from the gentlemen and professionals thing, where the gentlemen were deemed to be higher beings than those lower class professionals who had to make money from their sport. It really got quite stupid towards the end before they dropped it regarding how athletes could earn money. Also gave a significant advantage to countries who funded their athletes to train full time whilst they remained "amateur". Far better now without such silly rules.
Not strictly true, I blame crappy front crawl tecnique in my late teens/early 20's for my bollocksed triceps in my right arm, I can't do a set of shoulder press' in the gym to save my life. I can do 1 rep at a mediochre weight, then that's it, something in there is knotted/torn/rubbing and it wont do it again.
There is of course plenty of opportunity to injure yourself with swimming but what you have there is not an impact related injury - like the damage your knees take from pounding the pavement road running for year after year.
[url= http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/londonspy/olympic-swimming-gold-winner-admits-using-illegal-kick-101642804.html ]Evidence of the pointlessness of having different strokes[/url]
Should be in the pool at one end, first person to cover the distance wins.
World cycling boss Pat McQuaid tells BBC Radio 5 live that he will lobby the International Olympic Committee [IOC] to add more cycling to the Olympic programme.
"Team GB have shown the link between road success and track success, and bringing good road cyclists onto the track," he said. "I want the IOC to expand the track programme and add an extra endurance event, one for men and one for women."