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Not sure what say about this except F me…
Apparently it’s the second such incident in 24hrs. I’ll be giving the park a wide berth for the foreseeable. Richardson was lucky not to have worse injuries..
Wow, that's a bit bonkers!!!!
Saw it this morning, was going to lap the park this afternoon, gave it a wide berth after this.
Horrible
I’d been there earlier in the day 😬
Horrific as it is, these events are thankfully rare.
There was a brief burst of it on the Birmingham canals earlier this year I think? Derby had it 3-4 years ago.
Richmond Park does have spates of it. They were going after people on Priory Lane a few years ago. Scary stuff though. I rode through on Tuesday.
That's why I do laps at 5.30am. Thems nasty are still in bed.
It's a shame Fenton wasn't around. He'd have soon chased them away.
Pretty crazy that it happened in such a busy area of the park. Never heard of something like that happening before but makes me think I should be a bit more vigilant when I am out 😐
It’s meant to be a royal park, not Compton in the 90’s. Bit embarrassing. If Prince P was still alive I’m
sure he’d rightly have them sent to Guantanamo or select a similar fitting punishment.
Now I wonder if they can tell the difference between a BSO and a Di2 Cervelo. Also will my 105 mark me as a peasant not worth robbing?
It’s meant to be a royal park, not Compton in the 90’s.
Now I wonder if they can tell the difference between a BSO and a Di2 Cervelo. Also will my 105 mark me as a peasant not worth robbing?
I'm guessing they def can tell the difference
It's time the sentences got stiffer to tackle these machete wielding moped scallies, ten years minimum, 5 for robbing and 5 for the machete, that should make them think twice. Knife crime is through the roof because the government aren't doing anything about it, most only get a few months even if they've done it before, the amount of scumbags who've been in prison more than a dozen times is staggering.
There was a time a couple of years ago when police adopted a tactic of driving into these thugs on mopeds. Too easy for them to get away even in the rare event they get pursued by police. The level of hand wringing opposition was embarrassing.
the amount of scumbags who’ve been in prison more than a dozen times is staggering.
So, absolute proof that 'prison works' then? Or just possibly a flaw in your reasoning?
They're just misunderstood youth, born into poverty, little to no chance in life, trying to turn their lives around, aspiring rappers etc. Give them a chance (or twelve). Think of your hard-earned bike as a charity donation.
Or not.
that should make them think twice
Not if they are under 14 !!
Bring back flogging.
I've had a similer experience commuting home many years ago they pulled me off the bike, no knife was involved there was no way i was giving up my bike i ended up fighting both of them off but since then i've carried an Expandable Baton, never had to use it. It is illegal to possess but i would rather ask for forgiveness than someone steal or stab me for my possessions that i have worked hard to own.
Seems to be a weekly thing on the canals in Birmingham at the moment, I lost my Orange speedworks 4 weeks back now, they have escalated, I unfortunately had a 4 on 1 attack with heavy mechanics spanner’s and hammer, poor guy a couple of weeks ago they pulled a gun on him and his daughter no idea if it was fake or not but enough not to argue and hand the bikes over.
There was a time a couple of years ago when police adopted a tactic of driving into these thugs on mopeds. Too easy for them to get away even in the rare event they get pursued by police. The level of hand wringing opposition was embarrassing.
They still do.
https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/news/guidance-updated-help-police-tackle-moped-crime-more-safely
It’s time the sentences got stiffer to tackle these machete wielding moped scallies, ten years minimum, 5 for robbing and 5 for the machete
If I’ve read the sentencing guidelines correctly the minimum sentencing would start at 5 yrs with a max of 8.
but since then i’ve carried an Expandable Baton, never had to use it. It is illegal to possess but i would rather ask for forgiveness than someone steal or stab me for my possessions that i have worked hard to own
Yes with a maximum of four years and it’s now illegal to possess it anywhere and that includes your home now.
And sod all use against a knife.
Seems to be a weekly thing on the canals in Birmingham at the moment,
There was a spate of it on the Fallowfield Loop in Manchester a while ago. It's an off-road tarmac cycle route popular with commuters and students, I used to use it pretty regularly too.
However with it being away from any roads and round the back of various housing estates and industrial units in the delights of East Manchester, it was easy for scrotes to lie in wait, ambush cyclists and then disappear into the alleyways.
"but since then i’ve carried an Expandable Baton, never had to use it. It is illegal to possess..."
"...And sod all use against a knife."
Bit of a longer reach? Wouldn't want to try it myself mind.
The other benefit is the distinctive expanding noise and action might make the pond scum think they have stumbled into an off duty copper which might be enough to make them leg it.
WHOOP. Big shout to the Mods. I can now read the thread title without trying to work out why/how the Pro's are biking in a stolen manner 🙂
Maglite torches with 5 D Cells used to be popular with security as it made an improvised baton.
"It's not an expandable baton it's a 5Kg solid aluminium bike pump"
I was a regular on the Fallowfield Loop - the gangs were usually around in the middle of the day, not at rush hour.
How many of the people advocating smashing someone with a baton etc have ever done so?
Easy to talk, quite different to get the Barton out, have space to swing etc and then activity hit someone with enough force in the right place to stop them.
Fair enough if you know what you're doing good at self defense but I am not sure most people could make effective use of these weapons.
Yes with a maximum of four years and it’s now illegal to possess it anywhere and that includes your home now. And sod all use against a knife.
OK, first of all 16 inch baton. Considering it’s longer than a knife and able to break bones, three whacks is more than enough. In a self-defense scenario you’re not trying to get them to comply to take them in the custody so using joint locks, you’re trying to get them to leave you alone. No head shots, hands, elbows and knees are all good targets. I know how to effectively use a baton.
I also said i knew they are illegal chances are pleading ignorance you would most likely get heavily fined and community service, just look at the pub owner a few weeks back as an example. Also there is a loop hole with a particular type of baton or there was need to look up and see if they have closed it.
That's terrible in Richmond park I used to do laps, and commute straight across it.
Just be aware if you have an offensive weapon in the form of a sports bat you also carry a ball and glove for the practice you were about to go to.
Sadly it's not just Richmond park, there was a spate of bike thefts in a Hackney park. Scrotes just hid in the bushes and jumped out on anyone passing, this was in the day too.
A quick guide to urban survival:
1) Always ride crap bikes around town
2) Drive a crap car
3) Use a crap phone
4) Never wear a posh watch
5) Carry a second "dummy" wallet with a few notes in and one out of date bank card.
A heads up for anyone that rides in and around Richmond - there was another bike jacking on Monday.
Same modus operandi - moped scum rams cyclist off bike then threatens victim with a machete. This time outside a school by the Roehampton Gate.
There was no sign of any police in the park yesterday despite 3 violent muggings in less than a week.
Based on the location and direction of travel of the moped scum they probably came from the Roehampton Estate which has a history of moped mugging occupants for most of the last 10 years.
Also for any locals - the moped scum gangs are nicking bikes from houses at night.
I’ve decided to pack in any road riding in West London now apart from on my tatty station bike - I’ve seen the moped scum gangs too many times to feel safe. Hopefully the mudguards and panniers will put them off…
https://road.cc/content/news/moped-gang-steal-junior-national-tt-champs-bike-287033
F’s sake.
I’m done. No more park rides for me & the sooner I’m out of this sh1thole the better. Hateful place.
There was no sign of any police in the park yesterday despite 3 violent muggings in less than a week.
I was there on Sunday morning and there was a police car parked up at the junction of Queen's Road and Ham Gate Avenue. Tbh I'd have thought you'd be ok bright and early on a weekend morning because there are just so many cyclists but I'll definitely be avoiding it at other times now.
And another - about 1 mile west and 15 minutes after the first mugging yesterday. Unless they dropped off the first bike in that time it means there were two gangs out yesterday.
https://twitter.com/mpsroyal_parks/status/1447840946394210310?s=21
Anyone want to start a co / Kickstarter for the true London cyclists multi tool.
Crank Bros is missing a trick not including a machete for protection against pirates. Maybe specialized could include one in their Swat compartment.
I’m joking but when co’s are working to normalise £5-10k builds what are they going to do to keep the owners safe?
To me this is terrorism, not simple theft and police should be treating much more seriously…
To me this is terrorism, not simple theft and police should be treating much more seriously…
Its not terrorism, but it's not theft either, it's robbery, and sentencing reflects that.
That is frightening 🙁
It's not terrorism, but it’s not theft either, it’s armed robbery, and I hope sentencing reflects that (not that there is much chance of the perps being caught).
Fixed it for you.
So, that’s 5 separate incidents in less than a wk where the assailants have threatened harm…
Be very interesting to see the police response to this..
The actual charge would be assault with intent to rob - armed robbery is only applicable when there are firearms involved - I think. If caught & convicted the sentence will be quite heavy, probably 8 yrs to start with. For a bike that’ll be worth a couple of hundred £ once they’ve fenced it on it hardly seems worth it..
I’m not sure if the acts are the work of a gang or opportunistic individuals. Regardless, it’s unreal.
When a groups actions have a community living in terror and changing their behaviour I’d say it’s pushing way beyond robbery, maybe it’s lacking a political motive but to me it’s still verging on terrorism, despite not hitting the dictionary definition directly on target. People are literally moving away, stopping leisure cycling and commuting as a result.
It's not terrorism & would not be charged as such. You may find it terrorising but that doesn't make it terrorism.It fails quite clearly as defined in the act of 2000. You might be able to add a charge under the public order act such as harassment, alarm or distress (more likely affray though) as well as assault with intent to rob. Definitely not terrorism though!
The worry for me is that when others see how easy it is and hard it is for the police to do anything about it, even if it's one or two teams then soon enough it will be widespread
How would you patrol the Surrey Hills for example, there's hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of bikes circulating there at the weekends
I think there's a market for remotely detonated dye bombs.
Look at that image of them on the moped holding a bike - now imagine them in a cloud of bright green indelible ink 🙂 Preferably with some mustard gas pepper spray and skunk oil for good measure. We should get Mark Rober on the job.
On a slightly more serious note though, GPS trackers with long battery life should be in more widespread use perhaps. Is there a good one?
The worry for me is that when others see how easy it is and hard it is for the police to do anything about it, even if it’s one or two teams then soon enough it will be widespread
A very valid concern.
The actual charge would be assault with intent to rob – armed robbery is only applicable when there are firearms involved – I think.
[Caveat] I'm no legal expert but [Caveat] a quick google suggests that the classification of armed robbery is not reserved specifically for the use of firearms, but also other weapons (including knives and batons). IIRC the pro-rider in question posted via Instagram that the police were treating it as such.
Anyhow, not here to argue, more as a worried person local to the area who'll sadly be giving the park a wide berth for the foreseeable future, which is a massive shame as it's one of my lunch hour loops but I'm normally solo and have no desire to be run down by a moped for my bike.
One relatively easy measure would be if proof of ownership was needed before being able to buy replacement electric bike or Di2 chargers.
Obviously doesn’t work in all cases, but so many high end bikes need power of some sort and most have proprietary connectors and cables.
When a groups actions have a community living in terror and changing their behaviour I’d say it’s pushing way beyond robbery, maybe it’s lacking a political motive but to me it’s still verging on terrorism, despite not hitting the dictionary definition directly on target. People are literally moving away, stopping leisure cycling and commuting as a result.
Hyperbole much?
[Caveat] I’m no legal expert but [Caveat] a quick google suggests that the classification of armed robbery is not reserved specifically for the use of firearms, but also other weapons (including knives and batons). IIRC the pro-rider in question posted via Instagram that the police were treating it as such.
Anyhow, not here to argue, more as a worried person local to the area who’ll sadly be giving the park a wide berth for the foreseeable future, which is a massive shame as it’s one of my lunch hour loops but I’m normally solo and have no desire to be run down by a moped for my bike.
Likewise.
Also if the police are treating as armed robbery that's some good news of a sort..
I don’t think it’s hyperbole.
You’ve got examples of change in behaviour and wanting to move away in this thread alone.
Replace going to the park with going to vote as the activity that people are being put off because of the threat at hand..
Easier to brush off as a guy vs female using park to train.
Clear message needs to be sent that this behaviour isn’t acceptable in a civilised society.
Replace going to the park with going to vote as the activity that people are being put off because of the threat at hand..
That's voter intimidation, not terrorism.
You appear to have your Snickers in a Twix over this.
There’s a lot the bike industry could do to reduce theft but there’s no incentive to do it - more thefts equals increased sales of bikes and parts.
One thing that could be done is serialisation of parts and group sets - with laser etched 3d barcodes being linked to sale history. Even if bikes were stripped for parts the components could still be traced back to the owner when sold on - making online stolen goods marketplaces like eBay and gumtree much easier to tackle. Several such small 3d barcodes on each component worth more than £150 would make the theft pointless - because the damage caused by removing the barcodes would render the item worthless.
Damn straight my Snickers are in a Twix 😂. There are people marauding Royal Parks I like to ride with machetes, thinking they in a war zone.
Imagine if it was Bike Park Wales or Whistler.
Just something I never expected to see in life. To be fair many things happened in the last year I never expected to see in life.
Snickers in a Twix
I'm so using that!
Snickers in a Twix
I’m so using that!
Was the punchline to a joke I saw today, his wife didn't like the way he swapped the chocolate wrappers around and she got her....
One thing that could be done is serialisation of parts and group sets – with laser etched 3d barcodes being linked to sale history.
At work I use a petzl progress adjust lanyard with a QR barcode on it that is scanned for our LOLER checks we have had to scrap some as the barcodes become unreadable with a scratch.
So I believe that any barcoded kit would just be scratched then it's untraceable
Easy to talk, quite different to get the baton out, have space to swing etc and then activity hit someone with enough force in the right place to stop them.
Quite right.
That's more like it.
What bar bag for a pistol?
On a slightly more serious note though, GPS trackers with long battery life should be in more widespread use perhaps. Is there a good one?
Well, there's this:
https://www.wiggle.co.uk/vodafone-curve-rear-bike-light-and-gps-tracker-1
...though the reviews on there aren't great!
Then there's this:
https://seesense.cc/products/see-sense-air-pre-order
...though it's not actually released yet.
Some people use things like Apple Airtags or similar, hidden away. So, I guess maybe soon it'll be a viable thing, but not that hard to defeat by someone with half a clue that it's there.
Then there’s this:
https://seesense.cc/products/see-sense-air-pre-order
/blockquote>Any idea is good in theory. This one though states tamper resistant.
Given whoever is likely going to be ripping it off with pliers, thats hardly resistant
Yep, totally agree - if they become common enough that they're known about then they'll be removed easily enough.
Here's another option, but not cheap!
it’s robbery,
Armed robbery actually, and yes sentencing is appropriate if caught. Let's see if they want my steel fixed wheel Kona road bike. Heavy to carry away. One would hope that ANPR would get them, but if not, if you see a moped with a passenger carrying a bike can you now hit them with your car? Informed drivers want to know.
What bar bag for a pistol?
You jest. On the Tandem@Hobbes listserver there was once a heated debate on "Are you packing?" Clearly some had ridden Richmond Park.
This is ridiculously shit. I’m riding into town tomorrow. Not too worried about the morning, but it puts me right off going that way in the evening. I come in Roehampton Gate, which appears to be the hotspot! Don’t even know a decent alternative.
Where do you need to get to njee?
This is ridiculously shit. I’m riding into town tomorrow.
Just ride your oldest bike, they will be targeting high end disk braked bikes as that is where the money will be
police will only take it seriously once someone gets chopped.
the scallies know this.
police will only take it seriously once someone gets chopped.
I think maybe they'll be working on this given it was a professional rider and several of the bigger newspapers and the beeb were running the story. Just have to stay out of that area until they catch these scumbags.
police will only take it seriously once someone gets chopped.
If I was an overstretched Police force and this was the immediate reaction, I'd be prioritising other things as well.
more thefts equals increased sales of bikes and parts.
That's perhaps one of the more daft assertions made about an industry I've heard. I can see Mike Synard rubbing his hands together as he gloats over the cell on the spread that totals replacement bike sales...
@onewheelgood, this is a little late as I'm not glued to this forum 24/7, you missed my point completely, lenient sentences is the issue, a few weeks/months inside is nothing to these scumbags, it's a chance to catch up with family n friends in some cases, several years is another matter, some of these lowlifes even avoid custodial sentences despite having a history of similar offences.
Where do you need to get to njee?
Ultimately London Bridge to Leatherhead, so I tend to come in via Priory Lane and Roehampton Gate, then go up to Sheen Cross, up past the ballet school and out Kingston gate. The obvious alternative is to go a totally different route and go down the A24 via Clapham/Merton/Morden/Cheam/Epsom. Once you're in Putney the alternatives look a bit rubbish!
Just ride your oldest bike, they will be targeting high end disk braked bikes as that is where the money will be
Yeah I don't have discs, and it certainly isn't a desirable brand, they seem quite discerning from the photos I've seen!
Ultimately London Bridge to Leatherhead, so I tend to come in via Priory Lane and Roehampton Gate, then go up to Sheen Cross, up past the ballet school and out Kingston gate. The obvious alternative is to go a totally different route and go down the A24 via Clapham/Merton/Morden/Cheam/Epsom. Once you’re in Putney the alternatives look a bit rubbish!
Ah, so pretty much diagonally across, so any diversion is going to be a big one, thought I may be able to help, but can't really suggest much more than you already know.
Yeah I don’t have discs, and it certainly isn’t a desirable brand, they seem quite discerning from the photos I’ve seen!
Was debating this with some friends after the first ones, I suspect that they're looking out for (if possible) single rider who looks fit /nice kit, aero wheels, discs - this would have the best chance of a high value bike.
In worse news I was walking the dog this morning to find my usual field cordoned off as a teenager was stabbed in broad daylight yesterday afternoon in front of a load of school kids doing after school clubs. A stark reminder that those who carry blades are often not afraid to use them regardless of the consequences.
[Caveat] I’m no legal expert but [Caveat] a quick google suggests that the classification of armed robbery is not reserved specifically for the use of firearms, but also other weapons (including knives and batons). IIRC the pro-rider in question posted via Instagram that the police were treating it as such.
'Armed robbery' isn't a defined chargeable offence to begin with. There are theft related charges such as 'robbery', or the aforementioned 'assault with intent to rob', and the separate charges relating to weapons such as 'Threatening with Weapon in Public'
In worse news I was walking the dog this morning to find my usual field cordoned off as a teenager was stabbed in broad daylight yesterday afternoon in front of a load of school kids doing after school clubs. A stark reminder that those who carry blades are often not afraid to use them regardless of the consequences.
Mrs Dubs rode past this yesterday. 🙁
I'm conflicted by the responses saying people will avoid the park. On one hand of course people should try to keep themselves safe, however, on the other hand there is safety in numbers and avoiding the park will make it easier for riders who do continue to go to the park to be isolated and targeted.
It's also kind of letting the 'terrorists' win.
Arranging to ride round in groups would be ideal.
ahh a glimpse into what motorcyclists have had to put up with for years. i guess now that bicycles are more expensive than motorcycles and easier to steal this was inevitable.
Tempted by one of these - seems like it's legal for now...
https://safehaus.co.uk/products/safehaus-mini-self-defence-spray-criminal-identifier
I don't want to avoid the park all the time, but I already avoid Danebury Avenue / Clarence Lane unless I'm in a group.
I’m conflicted by the responses saying people will avoid the park.
It's a valid point. My 2c is that my head on a swivel enough as it is for bad drivers - throw in the risk of someone on a moped armed with a machete after my bike & that's a big fat no fing thanks from this rider..