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Heads up for the "I didn't know it was on" crowd
It's interesting that Chris Ball has been absolutely anonymous since his disastrous AMA session on Pinkbike earlier in the year. The Vital MTB forum is rife with some wild rumours about enduro and DH next season. It's quite some feat to do so much damage in a year to two well established race formats
Could see Redbull launching a rival series
If I screw my eyes up really tight and promise to be good, will this happen? Please?
On the subject of GT.
In DH they are clearly the big brand that have a team that riders end up on when other stuff goes wrong and then want to get off ASAP. The one (admittedly a few years back) that sticks out is Bulldog who was clearly being held back by that bike as it rattled and gasped its way down the hill. He was out of there like a shot at the first opportunity.
Maes is (was?) to GT what Rude is to Yeti - except Rude is still at the absolute peak. Neither of them are so-called personalities, so their appeal will solely be based on the USP of having a bike ridden to EWS (WTF is it called now) glory by X. They haven't got the media reach like YT have (and Canyon still get) via Moimoi or Pivot get with Ed Masters and BK.
GT have done good stuff with Wyn though, but if you look at his stuff he isn't giving it a sell to be riding on GT. He barely mentions it, which I don't think is coincidence.
Anyway - ESO / Warner Bros / Discovery - get in the sea.
If I screw my eyes up really tight and promise to be good, will this happen? Please?
Well it might, but it would still only be a sideshow to the World Cup series.
What we really need to hope for is Discovery / ESO to learn from their many mistakes and make some big improvements and media personnel changes for next year.
Some post-race pit talk featuring Dean Lucas and Josh Carlson (both of whom I'd quite happily watch more of in future coverage):
So, no ride for Josh at Giant next year.. cagey with it but could be interpreted as no Giant team in EDS next year either? #speculation
Anyway – ESO / Warner Bros / Discovery – get in the sea.
They have nothing to do with running EDR though do they?. It's run by Chris Ball through Enduro Sports Organisation Ltd.
I caught the 'premiere' of the EDR Highlights last night on YouTube as it streamed 'live', a day and a half after the racing had finished. There were around 800 live viewers as I was watching. It's no wonder teams are dropping like flies.
I also listed to a Downtime podcast with Chris Ball from Feb 23 yesterday, before the season started obviously. The contrast between the opportunity talked up by Chris Ball and the delivery is striking.
Anyway – ESO / Warner Bros / Discovery – get in the sea.
They have nothing to do with running EDR though do they?. It’s run by Chris Ball through Enduro Sports Organisation Ltd.
ESO = Enduro Sports Organisation. Warner (or discovery, cant remember which) now own some (or maybe all) of ESO I believe. They certainly handed them a wedge of cash back in 2021 I assume in return for equity.
Ah right, that makes sense 🤦♂️ Yeah, they've not covered themselves in glory. I think some things in DH/XC have gone OK, and recently they've got into the stride a bit better (junior race cancellations aside), but Enduro just seems like it's being treated like the ginger step-kid.
Could see Redbull launching a rival series
I can't. They've never supported enduro, so why would they now? Unless they did some sort of invite only one-off event. More importantly for the sake of enduro; currently* the only glass ceiling for WCEDRWS is a minimum of UCI points and not a two tone helmet.
*And hopefully for the foreseeable future
ESO = Enduro Sports Organisation. Warner (or discovery, cant remember which) now own some (or maybe all) of ESO I believe. They certainly handed them a wedge of cash back in 2021 I assume in return for equity.
Isn't that normally the way? Bit (lot) of cash as a one-off then keeping former directors on the hook to ease the transition to whatever it becomes (often less good as filling more/bigger pockets).
A friend of mine sold his (very successful) business. He got a big wodge of cash, but was persuaded to stay on for a limited period as he was the business in many ways - in return for an exec salary and other bits, I assume. He viewed it very much as not wanting to see the family name trashed and also staying on good terms with suppliers and customers who had become friends. The new owners basically used him as a front to screw concessions out of said suppliers and customers. It was his choice, and he did very well out of it, so in telling the tale he wasn't looking for sympathy. He just said he wished now he had just walked away the second the sale went through.
Messrs Ball and Cunningham may be in a similar boat. But they have taken the money and are now incurring the ire of their customers. And no one can say that this season has gone well - DH or Enduro. No one knows the Enduro is on - it isn't televised live (which was hinted at by Mr Ball in that car crash interview - I may be wrong there). The semis in DH are just an added quali layer to say some half-competitive has been aired free to view. That extra layer of quali has exacerbated problems with protected riders etc and also led directly to the points oversight that caused the Brayton balls up. The balls up that Jack Reading details extremely well on the latest MUTN podcast. And it is a straight balls-up.
It has been a shambles so far. Another hope/dream of mine is that Minnaar, as GOAT, retires at the end of the season and goes off on one at ESO / Discovery etc.
I tell you something that is particularly grating. The blatant contractual requirement for Ric Mclaughlin to mention "UCI" at every possible opportunity. The race disciplines can't be referred to as just their format, it has to be the "UCI Downhill" or the "UCI World Championships". Pretty clear that the UCI want to make sure everyone knows they're in charge
So, no ride for Josh at Giant next year.. cagey with it but could be interpreted as no Giant team in EDS next year either?
I didn’t realise they even had a team. There is Rae doing her thing on liv and that’s it.
Josh is on the e-bikes which makes the edr look popular. It’s not as if josh was at the pointy end of the field. Even ratboy who hasn’t raced in years was faster. If your going to make your living racing then you have to at least be in the mix
I think Ric realises full well that he is quite lucky to be where he is (that's not meant in a nasty way, but he's never been a pointy end racer or rider of any repute) and is now probably sticking his fingers in his ears and cracking on with the job because it pays the bills.
As for Redbull putting on a rival series - I'm pretty sure when most folk put that forwards they mean DH. Crankworx is the obvious choice but they have some mediocre tracks (Cairns with the pedal at the end that decides the race rendering the otherwise excellent track redundant being at the forefront of my mind). Redbull aren't going to put on an Enduro series.
The next logical dick move by UCI/ESO/whoever is to tie the venues they have into some kind of exclusivity. I was under the impression this had kind of happened already when Schladming was binned and Leogang forced on everyone - same as Champery and Lenzerheide.
But, taking this all back to basics - this 2023 season would, unquestionably, have been better for riders and fans had it remained the same as it was prior. Had ESO/WB/Whoever made a tonne of cash and made everything better, these arguments would not be happening.
Redbull aren’t going to put on an Enduro series.
Agreed. They aren’t going to put on a dh series either. They are using the sport for marketing and to get cool images to sell drinks with. Every event they are associated with is invitational so they can control the narrative. Can you imagine a RB event being won by a monster supported rider? Never going to happen as they aren’t invited
I didn’t realise they even had a team. There is Rae doing her thing on liv and that’s it.
They don't seem to shout about it that much, agreed. Both Rae and Youn Deniaud are consistent top 10 riders though.
Can you imagine a RB event being won by a monster supported rider? Never going to happen as they aren’t invited
That's not really the case though, is it.. plenty of non-RB athletes at Hardline, Rampage etc...
The problem with a competing series is attracting enough of the top talent to take part. Crankworx DH is a case in point - big events but very few top 10/20 riders taking part so it's hard to get that interested in them.
RB seem to have plenty of advertising space at the 'new' World Cups in any case.. even without putting the events on.
It has been a shambles so far.
Melodramatics aside, it really hasn't been. The races have happened (as before; one Junior race accepted) The semi finals format changes haven't been successful, but TBH, it's OK to experiment in the hope/expectation that you may get better racing, that they haven't is just the roll of the dice. I expect we'll go back to the trad format from before. I think the live track coverage for both XC and DH has been better, the coverage for junior racing has been a real step change, and as for commentators; Mleh, take it or leave it. via GCN+ you can turn them off if you want.
I can remember exactly the same complaints when DH coverage went from Freecaster to RB, the bitching and moaning about the corporatisation of the sport and how the suits had taken over was just as 'End-Times' as it is now
I like the semi finals. I’m clearly in the minority. It’s gives those out of the top 30 more exposure than they ever got before as 60-30 were never broadcast anyway. At least they get some coverage now. It also makes the final a better watch as your watching the best and not the also rans. Let’s face it, nobody watches the qualifiers at the Olympics or the golf or tennis or any other feeder series to the main event so why would they for dh?
I would like to see the enduro coverage improve it was way better in the past before gmbn got involved. Going back to that style and maybe introducing some drone shots to show how fast they go would be good
I would like to see the enduro coverage improve it was way better in the past before gmbn got involved. Going back to that style and maybe introducing some drone shots to show how fast they go would be good
Maybe I just need to go and remind myself what it looked like, but that 38min highlights vid up there ^ is as good as I can remember EWS/EDR ever getting. Trackside footage, helmet cams and a drone all involved. The action from the Oz rounds 1 and 2 was really good too iirc (only I'm probably mixing official, Vital and MoiMoi footage in my head)
The low point was last year (or whenever it was) where they were attempting to commentate on highlight footage - only Murray Walker could ever pull off that sort of thing
that 38min highlights vid up there ^ is as good as I can remember EWS/EDR ever getting
Yeah I have to say that this race highlights package has been a noticeable step up from everything previous this season.
Every event they are associated with is invitational so they can control the narrative. Can you imagine a RB event being won by a monster supported rider?
did you miss Danny Hart (monster) and Bernard Kerr (no energy drink affiliation) winning hardline?
this year (cancelled due to weather) they even invited rat boy who was a “drink water” advocate (ie against all energy drink sponsorship due to its effect on impressionable viewers)
Clashing sponsors isn't really an issue. Monster Energy are the main sponsors of MXGP (Motocross); both recently crown World Champions are sponsored by, yes, you guessed it, Red Bull, and received plenty of coverage. No serious professional sport would do otherwise......
I've had a look at the ESO accounts on Companies House and it throws up some interesting stuff.
From what I can see, the Discovery Warner Bros (DWB) stuff was in the pipeline for a while. The DWB Finance VP was appointed as a director at ESO back in April 21, well in advance of the announcement of the changes to DH & Enduro. I was also surprised to see Enrico is no longer part of the organisation.
Most interestingly, there's been an eye watering injection of cash!
In 2020 ESO had £413,013 in the bank
In 2021 that figure jumped to £6,617,484
Looking at older historic accounts they've been able to run the EWS with the same few hundred thousand in the bank.
It doesn't feel like there's been that much more expenditure this year, certainly not on enduro, so I'm assuming the massive cash injection was to run DH and XC world champs at Glentress???
The DH TV coverage has clearly been worse, only internet contrarians would claim otherwise.
Let's have a little recap...
- On screen stats made smaller, harder to read
- No "time to beat" shown as riders near the finish line (would be so easy to add)
- Timing disappearing more often
- Secondary commentator seems out of his element, over-excited and inconsistent
- Lead commentator talks shite continuously, including repeating the shite the co-commentator has just said (Rob Warner has repeatedly said he had to be told to talk less)
- Both commentators miss key incidents and timing updates which viewers can see
- Not enough info provided about upcoming riders
Basically, they've done it on the cheap and it's not as good as Red Bull's coverage - which was ripe for improvement anyway.
and it’s not as good as Red Bull’s coverage
This must be a different Red Bull who's feed would totally collapse with boring regularity, who's timing disappeared just as often, who's commentators missed just as much, and talked equal amounts of shite, and would publish "Watch Bruni's winning run" on the front page of their website to constant derision right after the race had finished.
The idea that Red Bull's coverage of the sport was some sort of past-times nirvana only applies to those with the shortest of goldfish-a-like memories.
There's some top draw selective quoting.
The idea that Red Bull’s coverage of the sport was some sort of past-times nirvana only applies to those with the shortest of goldfish-a-like memories.
Personally, I've enjoyed a few comments about Freecaster recently. How quick we are to forget that the top section footage they used was often from the previous day, complete with massively different weather so it didn't even look similar to the race
putting the struggles down to commentary and on screen info seem to be a little too reductive.
not sure tv has really helped DH anyway?
Most sponsors still seem to be from the bike industry. Bike industry is struggling with less cash to inject into racing.
This year EDR seems to have been forgotten and become difficult to watch. It managed before the WBD take over without TV.
Needs to go back to it's own thing with a festival attached like tweedlove.
There’s some top draw selective quoting.
Yes there is, sorry @chakaping, read before posting next time. 👍
not sure tv has really helped DH anyway?
Other than the worlds, I don't think there's been a single race broadcast live on Eurosport, despite that being one of the supposed benefits of the new deal.
Most sponsors still seem to be from the bike industry.
Just did a quick look at the DH Les Gets highlights and the various advertising boards.
Non bike sponsors:
Whoop
Oakley
CIC Bank
Red Bull
Nissan
GoPro
Bike Sponsors:
Vittoria
Shimano
good point. was thinking more about individual teams and riders.
Oakley make bike stuff, and then energy drinks sponsor riders.
TBH, it’s OK to experiment in the hope/expectation that you may get better racing, that they haven’t is just the roll of the dice.
I agree with some of what you say, but that is nonsense. Presumably you are mostly talking about weather there? I don't disagree on that one. Jack Reading was quite honest about what he was told about Loudevielle juniors being cancelled. It wasn't track rideability that was the issue - it was emergency access in the conditions. It doesn’t need Brook MacDonald to tell you of the dangers of medics not being able to access parts of the track quickly. It was a (thankfully rarely exposed) issue before and it still is one now.
However, it takes a special kind of stupidity to put something like semis into the mix of protected riders and not ask yourself what would happen under a few (not unlikely) scenarios.
It also takes a next level stupidity to do it at such short notice that points awarded for semis weren't updated into the rule book. So now some riders have to distinguish between UCI and WC points before committing to travel to a given race. There is also some difference between what was stated by ESO etc and what is in the rule book re the different points awards for the final round.
Sports in general are not a good advertisement for how to effect change, but ESO do seem to be making an exceptional bollox of it. They also alienated the riders from the start with their secrecy.
I would say it is near enough a cert that Minnaar will retire at the end of this season. I hope he engages full South African mode and tells it like it is.
and it still is one now.
I think, if anything the decisions to cancel the Juniors in Loudenville probably unwittingly exposed that sometimes it probably hadn't been safe to run previously either, but they just went ahead regardless, I'd bet money that that part of the organisation - medical access and facilities probably hasn't changed from Red Bull to ESO they probably just rolled over the contracts (they're working under the same UCI directives after all)
I hope he engages full South African mode and tells it like it is.
He doesn't strike me as one to bite that hand that's fed him for 20 years, so I wouldn't hold your breath.
As far as the junior cancellation goes, that should never have become an issue with proper planning. Its basic preparation and is even in the UCI guide to running events that backup in case of bad weather is needed.
Provide backup solutions, because a course which is impassable if the weather is bad is synonymous with
failure. Do not underestimate the need to prepare alternative routes which must be passable in any weather.
Genuine question out of interest - not an agenda - is that quote from a section concerning the passability of the actual course for the racers to race or is it under the banner of emergency access?
Yes - Jack Reading did leave out the fact that this issue at Loudenvielle was not (probably) a direct result of ESO being in charge. I have little doubt that races have been run in non-crazy riding conditions that had potentially dangerous sections where paramedics wouldn't have been able to access a serious injured rider (or spectator or whoever) - see Brook MacDonald at MSA.
However:
1) Semis is a crap idea. It is just a secondary level of quali to allow a token statement to be put out that some actual racing has been broadcast free to air. It also adds another layer of potential weirdness wrt protected riders.
2) Semis have not even been brought in properly - hence the Brayton balls-up and the need to suddenly distinguish UCI points from WC points.
3) The commentary is dire. Only Gwinny and Pompon have provided any real insight (Gwin in particular was excellent), but Gracia seems to have based his act on a Harry Enfield version of Warner and Ric is so wooden he must need a coat of ronseal every six months.
4) You have to pay to watch the only racing that truly counts. Sure riders 30-60 are great riders and characters but I can watch their Instagram output to see them. The point of watching a race live is to see who wins.
And as for Enduro (the actual point of thread - from which i apologise for digressing), ESO don't seem to give a tinker's cuss about it.
I have little doubt that races have been run in non-crazy riding conditions that had potentially dangerous sections where paramedics wouldn’t have been able to access a serious injured rider
Fort William is the perfect example of this.
Above the road gap there is zero vehicle access. No way to get an ambulance etc up to the top station. Anyone having a big crash between the start gate and the road gap will not have a medic attending quickly as they'll either have to walk down from the start of up from the road gap, and any extraction would be helicopter access only
ESO don’t seem to give a tinker’s cuss about it.
They also took over the Scottish Enduro Series and haven't bothered their arse with it this year. Zero races
is that quote from a section concerning the passability of the actual course for the racers to race or is it under the banner of emergency access?
Its a fairly general section, but does read more like it applies to racers in hindsight.
I emailed them at the start of the year asking about the SES dates etc.
They didn't bother to respond.
Semis is a crap idea
Don't disagree, but I don't blame ESO/Discovery for trying new things. It might've been brilliant. If they don't try news things it just stagnates. Things are never (rarely) perfect the first time around, and again, good on them for at least trying something
The commentary is dire.
In your opinion, 🙂 I don't mind it, and with GCN+ you can turn it off anyway.
You have to pay to watch the only racing that truly counts.
Sure, but it's on Eurosport and that's got millions of subscribers in comparison to perhaps the tens of thousands that watched the live stream from Red Bull, every sport that's moved to a payment gateway (F1 Football, Cricket, Golf etc etc) has increased it's audience share. Plus hopefully some of the money will find its way to the riders.
...And yes, I agree with you ESO seems to have forgotten all about ERD/EWS (or whatever it's being called this week)
Eurosport and that’s got millions of subscribers
200,000,000 viewers.... that's SOOOOOO much more than RedBull TV... like... WAY WAY WAY more.
Look at the advertisers in the breaks, proper proper companies spending proper proper money..
Lets hope it trickles down... It bloody better had do.
BoardinBob
Full MemberAbove the road gap there is zero vehicle access. No way to get an ambulance etc up to the top station. Anyone having a big crash between the start gate and the road gap will not have a medic attending quickly as they’ll either have to walk down from the start of up from the road gap, and any extraction would be helicopter access only
Bit OT but not true- they have a utility gondola which they can use both to get people onsite and to evacuate, like a poundshop helicopter. It's still fairly slow since they need to load it, send it up and then transfer the patient to an ambulance, but probably about as fast as it would have been to send an ambulance up a dirt road, if they had one, and it looks smoother.
Also, medics can be prestationed on track, they don't have to wait for an accident then set out from the top station or road gap. Can't recall ever seeing this done for a smaller race mind, but they definitely had a crew in the rockiest bit last time I was there for a big race.
chrismac
Full MemberCan you imagine a RB event being won by a monster supported rider? Never going to happen as they aren’t invited
Did you just delete Danny Hart from existence?
I think the EDR is struggling because they seem to treat it as an afterthought. With things like finals on a Thursday, no decent coverage, not even a quickly edited highlights package shortly afterwards. When the best coverage is unofficial stuff from the likes of Moi Moi & Wynn TV rather than ESO/Discovery themselves then you have to ask if they really care at all.
Enduro has never been a very easy sport to cover live, but now it looks like they’re not even trying
I’ve no problem with their DH coverage although I’m aware that a lot of racers don’t seem happy with the semi-finals or the points scoring, etc.
I tend to watch the highlights on YouTube anyway as nowadays I don’t have time to watch all the racing.
I personally think EDR is going to go the way of 4X and get dropped in the next few years. Hopefully it will be revived by someone else.
Bit OT but not true- they have a utility gondola
A utility gondola is nowhere near the same level of access as a typical alpine resort. Take Les Gets at the weekend. There's a road all the way up to the top that vehicles can access and the track touches the road several times, meaning in the event of an accident, you can get an ambulance and medics around the mountain quickly. Nevis on the other hand is an inhospitable hill with extremely poor access. The length of time that it takes to get the utility gondola on and up the hill, not to mention the fact that you need to get the injured person to a point where they could be winched into the gondola, which on that hill is extremely difficult (talking from personal experience here) could be a life or death factor in the event of a serious injury. I've sat with someone who had a huge crash and it took hours to get them off the hill there
A ‘lightweight’ class in DH might work well to develop and market good bikes for most of us – race the same DH run so the competition that pushes the brand’s R+D is to close the time gaps between the full DH class and the Enduro bike class.
this isn’t a bad idea. as i started reading this i thought, bring back Super D (now i’m wondering if the format was called super d). kind of like a single stage enduro, also timed on the climbs. could even use the dh track, but with a healthy climb to start, or even to finish.
would still require a bike that climbs well, so encouraging development in that direction.
probably easier to film if it’s only one course, but still wouldn’t be as fast or as easy to film as DH.
Perhaps EWS level Enduro racing should be on e-bikes already..
only if they aren’t allowed to charge batteries or charge them unless it’s through regeneration during the descents. that would push some interesting development. and time the whole course, not just downs.
Enduro seems to me to be the race series that more closely matches “normal group riding”
that was the original intention, then companies started making “enduro” bikes.
I don’t tend to watch any bike racing on the tv as it is all very dull, but the XC stuff proved more entertaining than the DH.
that’s the beauty of a mass start race. how about a mass start, multi-lap race that ascends the mountain then comes down the dh track?
I do wonder in the case of GT if pon have decided they only want one brand doing enduro and that will be canondale given they are having more on track success at the moment. No point in having 2 brands fighting for the same bit of the pie.
their brands compete at different points of the market. if santa cruz didn’t make an enduro (or whatever) bike, pon would loose sales to yeti.
BoardinBob
Full MemberA utility gondola is nowhere near the same level of access as a typical alpine resort. Take Les Gets at the weekend. There’s a road all the way up to the top that vehicles can access and the track touches the road several times, meaning in the event of an accident, you can get an ambulance and medics around the mountain quickly. Nevis on the other hand is an inhospitable hill with extremely poor access. The length of time that it takes to get the utility gondola on and up the hill, not to mention the fact that you need to get the injured person to a point where they could be winched into the gondola, which on that hill is extremely difficult (talking from personal experience here) could be a life or death factor in the event of a serious injury. I’ve sat with someone who had a huge crash and it took hours to get them off the hill there
Mostly agree with that- but why did you say "any extraction would be helicopter access only"? That's the statement I was taking issue with...
Don't the Mier-Smith brothers ride for Giant in EDR & DH?
Don't forget they also now sponsor Warner again lol
any extraction would be helicopter access only
Because at a race, the only way to get them to the utility gondola or down to the puggy line would be to effectively halt the race completely as any medics etc would have to walk up or down the track and anyone on a stretcher would have to be carried up or down the track, and that process would take hours, effectively ending the race therefore it's far quicker and much more likely that they'd move the injured rider to the side of the track and bring the helicopter up for extraction. No big deal closing the track on a random Sunday to get someone off the hill slowly but that's not happening on a race day
It did on race Sunday in Nationals. There were people on the Gondola 3-4 spaces in front and behind the extraction unit. I'd say it was a 15-20 mins delay as they dropped a man down, loaded the injured rider and went on their way again.
that’s the beauty of a mass start race. how about a mass start, multi-lap race that ascends the mountain then comes down the dh track?
well give it a few years and XC might get pretty close to that. The tech on those courses at World Cup level is pretty insane. Probably not the full height of a WC DH track though, climbs tend to be kept shorter to make the racing more interesting.
couple of caveats though, as people will always spend more time climbing than descending:
tyres are never going to be as good. Even a truly magical 100% puncture proof tyre, you would still be making choices on tread pattern and rubber compound to aid climbing at the detriment of descending.
safety could be an issue. Armour is hot. Unless stuff gets mandated, at most you might see lightweight knee pads but otherwise it will be Lycra and road helmets.
I followed the Enduro World Cup this season just as I did the past few seasons.
Like a few others here it's absolutely a race format I identify with far more than DH (though I watch the Jr DH and Semi-finals sometimes). There's a scarcity of race options where I live, but will probably dip into it with the kids next year.
Enduro footage will never be perfect due to the difficulties of the track layout, but from a YouTube spectator's perspective I don't think it was any worse this year. I can see why the riders are unhappy about being squished into gaps when the DH circus isn't at full chat, but it makes no difference to online viewing.
I do think people will be buying bikes (and parts) based on what they see their favourite riders on (I would love to know how Jack Moir impacted sales for Canyon and now YT). Whether that's enough to sustain the series will remain to be seen I suppose.
Wyn Masters had a good old whinge about it not being a multi-day adventure any more, but I suspect that's partly sour grapes because the standard has improved - Jack Moir talked about that on a podcast recently. There was also grumps about the previous pro-stage set up that they dropped this year. Whereas the reseeding for the final run sounds like a great idea for the spectators trackside.
Ultimately, there has to be compromise between commercial realities, rider and viewer enjoyment. Hopefully that works out.
I do think people will be buying bikes (and parts) based on what they see their favourite riders on (I would love to know how Jack Moir impacted sales for Canyon and now YT). Whether that’s enough to sustain the series will remain to be seen I suppose.
See i'm not as convinced. How many bought a Yeti because of Rude or because well, they're a Yeti..
Santa Cruz seem to be nowhere in EWS/EDR but they still fly out of shops.
Lappierre do well in EWS/EDR however you don't see a lot out on the trails do you.
Obviously there's a few outliers here, but i think more and more people are focusing on value and eebs as their purchases rather than "what Jesse Melamed rides".
How many bought a Yeti because of Rude or because well, they’re a Yeti..
Santa Cruz seem to be nowhere in EWS/EDR but they still fly out of shops.
Lappierre do well in EWS/EDR however you don’t see a lot out on the trails do you.
Marketing is far more nuanced than that. Personally I think having a top level race team validates a bike. I believe that was YT's reasoning for bringing Gwin in when they hadn't previously had a WC team.
Santa Cruz don't have an EDR team but they have arguably the most high profile DH team and are very present at amateur enduro events. They did used to have an EWS team of Mark Scott and Iago who are very savvy at getting media coverage even though they aren't top 5 riders.
Yeti don't have a DH bike so makes sense they've focussed on enduro. I see no other Yeti marketing and can't think of anyone else they sponsor, so clearly works.
Lapierre have an entirely French team, and are very popular in France. Used to see lots of them here but I think the 'snapierre' reputation ended that.
I didn’t realise they even had a team
They won two of the seven rounds (although Luke MS is on the DH team and only did 2 enduros)... this to me proves how irrelevant enduro becomes when they run it the same time as DH and how poor the organisers are at covering and promoting the events.
Canyon as a company are big into racing - with top road teams, DH riders, enduro-ists and probably gravelers on their books.
This certainly gives them a credibility that they wouldn't otherwise have as a D2C brand IMO.
And even more than seeing Troy, Tahnee or Jesse on their bikes, I'd be pretty confident that Fabien Barel wouldn't let them get away with putting out a sub-standard bike.
I've never bought a bike based on who is riding that brand. I don't even know the names of any recent Ibis riders. Robin Wallner was the only name that's rode for Ibis that I know. Sure, you can see that some brands gain traction based on who is riding. When I was starting out, Commencal had the Athertons everywhere.
I've not watched much this year, mainly due to not going looking for it, but also it seems that coverage wasn't popping up in front of me. I still prefer Enduro over DH, simply like others have said, it's closest to the format that most of us ride.
Santa Cruz don’t have an EDR team
I hadn't really thought about it until you just said it. They don't do they...weird
See i’m not as convinced. How many bought a Yeti because of Rude or because well, they’re a Yeti..
Well I bet they sell more of them regardless.
I think race pedigree is important. How many people have bought WRX because they were champion rally cars 20(?) years ago?
Funny enough I can buy Richie’s old bikes from Jared Graves on FB, Jack Moir sells his and so does Dean Lucas.
Yeti don’t have a DH bike so makes sense they’ve focussed on enduro.
Didn't Richie ride one at an event recently?
how about a mass start, multi-lap race that ascends the mountain then comes down the dh track?
That would finally let us see the variety of theoretical lines on the DH course as people are using them to overtake!
Let's wait for ESO/Discovery to get enduro and DH right before we give them more disciplines to stuff up, eh?
That would finally let us see the variety of theoretical lines on the DH course as people are using them to overtake!
Poor Ben Cathro would have a melt down.
Santa Cruz quietly dropped iago and mark Scott. Think mark is still on them via a shop sponsor?
Think mark is still on them via a shop sponsor?
He's not showing as a Santa Cruz rider at EDR level this year but riding for them at UK level races
Santa Cruz might not have an Enduro team but they are available to buy and look at in lots of shops. If you want exposure as a brand and you don't have any physical presence in bike shops then you need something like a Enduro or DH team.
I think YT are a good example as they've stopped have a big race team and I've seen fewer adverts for them and I definitely see fewer YT's on the trail than I did a few years ago.
Iago Garay went to Cannondale, Mark Scott is still on Santa Cruz as a free agent, which I think was what Iago was on.
Santa Cruz
YT have Jack Moir, Christian Textor and Kasper Woolley, so a decent team set up..
I didn't buy my bike based on the team performance, but probably pay more attention to the team as a result of buying the bike. If that makes sense?
I think YT are a good example as they’ve stopped have a big race team and I’ve seen fewer adverts for them and I definitely see fewer YT’s on the trail than I did a few years ago.
Interesting example, and there may be something in that.
But I also have a perception that they have really long model lifespans, and their frames usually seem a bit behind the curve in geometry.
Whereas SC seem to be bringing out new models with little tweaks to keep them current all the time.
I think YT are a good example as they’ve stopped have a big race team and I’ve seen fewer adverts for them and I definitely see fewer YT’s on the trail than I did a few years ago
Early (and pre Brexit) YT were mindblowing value so are a bit of an anomaly. I bought a Tues and it worked out about half the cost of the comparable bike from bought via a shop. I agree the range is looking a bit dated now.
Their enduro team is an interesting model where the riders pick their own components. It'll be interesting to see if they stick with this going forwards. I had hoped we'd see some unusual brands popping up but their builds have all been a bit boring. I believe YT are going big with their DH team next year too.
I think Jack Moir said on the Downtime podcast that he mainly ran the components he was used to previously as that meant one less new variable to get used to as well as a new bike and team. But he was open to more experimentation once he was use to the bike
BoardinBob
Full MemberNo big deal closing the track on a random Sunday to get someone off the hill slowly but that’s not happening on a race day
It does, like Weeksy I've seen it. Because...
BoardinBob
Full MemberBecause at a race, the only way to get them to the utility gondola or down to the puggy line would be to effectively halt the race completely as any medics etc would have to walk up or down the track and anyone on a stretcher would have to be carried up or down the track
It seems a bit like you haven't seen them winch people in and out on the gondola? This post, it feels like you're thinking they have to get you to the top station. It's still disruptive of course but then so is any big crash.
Their enduro team is an interesting model where the riders pick their own components. It’ll be interesting to see if they stick with this going forwards. I had hoped we’d see some unusual brands popping up but their builds have all been a bit boring.
Let’s see if that changes or if it’s a you can have anything you like as long as we sell it on our bikes.
I think Jack Moir said on the Downtime podcast that he mainly ran the components he was used to previously as that meant one less new variable to get used to as well as a new bike and team. But he was open to more experimentation once he was use to the bike
He also said he liked the stuff he was used to and isn't one to obsess over details that won't necessarily make a huge difference to his race times.
Okay quick question, what does EDR actually stand for? Is it an actual acronym or just some TV schedule friendly event name shortening going on like XCC and XCO?
Is it not just Enduro with the n, u and o removed?
A bit like CVNDSH.
What's happening to all these missing vowels?
Are they being sold on the blk mrkt?
Canyon CLLCTV lost their vowels ages ago - poor buggers 🙁
Right, so safe to say it's just meaningless shite that's trying to be a thing. Gotcha.