Pro-Enduro coming apart at the seams?

Ibis have just released a new enduro bike as well . I'd love to know if this is because of the current poor coverage and the changes to how the EWS/EDR runs or if its down to a lack of money in the industry post covid , I suspect its got more to do with the second but the first can't help .

There are rumours about teams leaving downhill as well so it's not just enduro

Enduro just seems like a race format that is more fun to do than to watch.

There's nothing wrong with that, but it will limit the number of pro riders it will support.

Maybe Enduro full stop? Didn't Kev put out an appeal for entrants for an event this year and the NN had spaces the week before. Although these two events are at the more technical end of the spectrum so appeal to less riders.

I'm still following the EWS coverage but it sure is a hard sport to televise and capture the excitement and realty of.

They do need to come up with a better format of coverage, I think live probably isn't the answer but perhaps instead a highlights package post event. I've seen it compared to rallying but they get to use in car cameras and helicopter footage which I can't really see happening.

Recently I realised that I had no idea what had happened in what used to be called EWS so far this year. It seems they’re made WC DH paid viewing only and given EWS almost zero coverage!

Let’s face it, it’s not really that “pro” is it? I wonder how many of them actually make enough money to support themselves from the racing?

I think teams pulling out represent a consolidation of spending by brands. It’s hard to see how much more benefit there is in funding a team (quite expensive) vs just sponsoring a rider with free equipment (almost zero cost). Most of the name recognition is of the riders anyway, not their team. I also wonder how effective a form of marketing it is for brands, when social media and the internet seem to have a bigger influence on what people buy. It’s not as if any one brand is substantially different to another, despite their best efforts.

There's at least the same amount of video coverage of enduro on the official channels, but for some reason a lot of the MTB media aren't sharing it this year. I wonder if that's because they perceive Discovery as a media competitor?

Enduro playlist with previews, highlights, interviews etc:

Free to view DH highlights, juniors racing, semis, qualis etc:

Enduro just seems like a race format that is more fun to do than to watch.

I think basically this.

For Enduro to pay its way there will need to be some cross-funding from DH, but the whispers coming from that direction are not great either.

Sticking the pointy end of DH behind a paywall and adding an extra layer of quali (semis) so something at 90% intensity can be free to air is a dick move by people who are largely concerned with cashing their chips now rather than looking to the future.

Enduro has to have the big manufacturers on board to survive. If they don't perceive that they are getting the exposure they will increasingly focus on riders who can generate revenue from Instagram rather than race results.

Was 4X any good to watch @nickc? It's unusual to have a timetrial as the main event, and the actual bike race not be that popular.

Enduro is able to directly market the product (the bikes) rather than just the brand, so it feels like that should mean something. But the technical challenges for effective televison seem way, way beyond the scope of the sport. DH coverage is difficult enough from what we see.

It's almost impossible to film it to make it a watchable event even highlights .they've proved that .

The costs involved for each team just simply doesn't stack up anymore against sales of bikes

For me I've never really got to grips with it or engaged in it like I do the dh .

There’s at least the same amount of video coverage of enduro on the official channels, but for some reason a lot of the MTB media aren’t sharing it this year. I wonder if that’s because they perceive Discovery as a media competitor?

Aren't riders banned from filmed their own content, with media outlets only being allowed to use official footage?

Not that I know of, or else MoiMoi TV etc wouldn't exist?

“ There’s at least the same amount of video coverage of enduro on the official channels, but for some reason a lot of the MTB media aren’t sharing it this year.”

That must be why it’s passed me by - I visit here, pinkbike, nsmb and vital, and a few others. If it’s not on those sites, I don’t hear about it!

They do need to come up with a better format of coverage, I think live probably isn’t the answer but perhaps instead a highlights package post event. I’ve seen it compared to rallying but they get to use in car cameras and helicopter footage which I can’t really see happening.

I suppose the problem is that coverage is pretty labour/resource intensive Vs XC/DH/CX and Road cycling has a big established, global audience which justifies the spend for the advertisers.

So realistically live coverage is out, the current edited format seems to be too short (its typically just a 45min show isn't it) and misses too much, probably because there's only a handful of camera operators trying to cover a lots of sections of different stages and running between hills and if it was all helmet cam footage that wouldn't work either.

I reckon it needs a longer highlights show (1.5hrs at least?) And they need to look at the possibilities for more, longer range drone coverage supplemented with some helmet cam footage. They've been using drones for shorter sections of CX and DH, take the lessons learned there and apply it to a bigger (geographically) event. That still means a lot of effort will be needed for editing, it's still not going to be cheap but they need some logistical flexibility to cover each round and marching camera crews about in mountains isn't going to work.

Someone also needs to take a flyer on TV Slots, I've only ever spotted it at stupid times on Eurosport, and you have to search on GCN for it. If Enduro is starved for exposure and the coverage just doesn't do it justice then sadly these days it's going to die, the OP's reference to 4x makes the point.

I’m not sure. 2 teams that didn’t have riders at the pointy end of the field is not really much of a change. They also didn’t appear to do much of their own marketing / social media stuff off the back of the team.

As it’s the last race of the season then it’s not surprising there are riders at the end of their contracts who are now looking for rides. It’s not as if GT have said the won’t be racing next year it’s just that Katy is at the end of her contract that sounds like it’s not been renewed. I hope she does find a ride

There is also a global slump in bike sales after the covid boom that brand owners are having to deal with

That must be why it’s passed me by – I visit here, pinkbike, nsmb and vital, and a few others. If it’s not on those sites, I don’t hear about it!

Must admit I'd be really interested to hear various media outlets' take on why they've not run with coverage like previous years, but then run stories about the decline of the sport & coverage.

Is it a resistance to publishing/promoting a 'competitor' content or something else?

I reckon it needs a longer highlights show (1.5hrs at least?) And they need to look at the possibilities for more, longer range drone coverage supplemented with some helmet cam footage. They’ve been using drones for shorter sections of CX and DH, take the lessons learned there and apply it to a bigger (geographically) event. That still means a lot of effort will be needed for editing, it’s still not going to be cheap but they need some logistical flexibility to cover each round and marching camera crews about in mountains isn’t going to work.

It sounds simple, but TV isn't cheap.

Take a drone. £500-£4000 /day depending if you just want some FPV stuff or a pilot + camera operator. And they want paying for the week to fly there, scout locations etc, fly back.

Go-Pros, yes every Tom Dick and Harry sticks one on their helmet to capture the gnarr of Swinley for free. But as a profesional that's £400/day to wrangle cameras and cards and for enduro that's going to need 2 people per stage. And likewise they all want paying for the week, flights, per diems and accomodation.

Even just having a camera at the finish line costs thousands (cameraman, sound guy, director).

And then there's production office and editing costs.

While full on live coverage is near impossible, they could still do a lot better than a Twitter feed to provide live coverage.

With the likes of YouTube live it's not unreasonable to expect some on course stuff during the race, whether it's someone at an interesting point in a stage or at a stage end etc.

The problem there is firstly condistency of delivery, and secondly, for every person that thinks youtube live or similar is great, there'll be 100 complaining pinkbike forum users moaning it's not Hollywood standard broadcast.

And as we know, there's sadly a vocal group who refuse to pay but want more output, to hell with wages, costs, logistics or any of the real life factors that impact the viability of broadcasting a difficult sport.

If GT are the bike of choice for many privateers (DH per pinkbike), why would a brand need to pay riders when the jobs being done at a more grass roots level.

Sensible budget allocations I'd think to drop your paid athlete liabilities and increase your privater support by lowering bike/frame pricing to those that purchase.

Enduro is able to directly market the product (the bikes) rather than just the brand, so it feels like that should mean something. But the technical challenges for effective televison seem way, way beyond the scope of the sport. DH coverage is difficult enough from what we see.

Exactly, I expect DH is far more workable for TV and if you can make a DH bike that wins you can sell an Enduro bike.

Was 4X any good to watch @nickc? It’s unusual to have a timetrial as the main event, and the actual bike race not be that popular

In the early to mid noughties it was great. It was usually on on the Saturday evening after qualifying and the field was full of the downhill racers doing it for a laugh. Once they stopped, probably due to the risk of injuries, it just felt a bit pointless.

As DH seems to be moving to 3 minute tracks to make coverage easier, perhaps enduro should just be the same 3 minute track(no tree coverage) done 5 times. Or two tracks right next to each other so cameras can cover both courses.

I've never really got into watching Enduro even though it matches my riding quite closely and I've raced a few. I love watching DH but I never really ride it and have never raced it. I also own an Enduro bike but not a DH bike and with no desire to buy one.

In last weeks Downtime podcast with Jack Moir they talked a lot about how the coverage could be improved, he was suggesting that it’d be good to see mini clips uploaded straight after each stage finish to keep people engaged through the day. And where they are sharing a venue with the DH, why not let them come down after the downhill is finished, you’d have the cameras and the crowds all there already.
As it stands the coverage just struggles to engage, dry commentators talking over 5 second clips usually of pretty dull sections of the trails (I know that most of the interesting parts will be hard to access with broadcast quality equipment)

Looks like messrs Ball and Cunningham cashed out at the right time...

At least RC managed to buy his RS4 before the gravy train stopped!

What’s happened? Is it cancelled?

It's the old squash problem isn't it? Great sport to participate in, loads of potential for increased participation. Absolute balls to watch on TV let alone online.

The opposite of, say, cliff diving. Dangerous to take part with a participant base in the hundreds, but makes great online 1 minute footage with stunning settings and athletes in swim suits. Appeals to anyone who likes stunning views, athleticism and swimsuits. Which is a much bigger pool of people than like watching what is essentially a very drawn out time trial.

It’s a real pity, because it a much more appealing sport for me than DH. But the DH format seems much, much easier to package for spectators, and especially for TV.

I love watching DH but I never really ride it and have never raced it. I also own an Enduro bike but not a DH bike and with no desire to buy one.

Me too. You would've thought that the bike industry sells more enduro-a-like bikes than it ever would DH bikes, which makes the whole situation even more weird. Enduro seems to me to be the race series that more closely matches "normal group riding" i.e. stroll to the top and kill yourself trying to keep up with the naturally talented descender in your group, so for the UCI and bike manufacturers to treat enduro so poorly that it has teams folding while DH and XC is more and more popular just seems, I dunno, like they don't care?

You would’ve thought that the bike industry sells more enduro-a-like bikes than it ever would DH bikes, which makes the whole situation even more weird. Enduro seems to me to be the race series that more closely matches “normal group riding” i.e. stroll to the top and kill yourself trying to keep up with the naturally talented descender in your group, so for the UCI and bike manufacturers to treat enduro so poorly that it has teams folding while DH and XC is more and more popular just seems, I dunno, like they don’t care?

Very very much so. That's what a decent chunk of us do, we ride something at least relatable to their tracks... but slower 🙂

I was watching the stage previews from Chatel and thinking "Damn, got to find some of them next year".

I’d love to know if this is because of the current poor coverage and the changes to how the EWS/EDR runs or if its down to a lack of money in the industry post covid

Both.

At least RC managed to buy his RS4 before the gravy train stopped!

They've jumped ship to another gravy train (DH).

But seem to be doing their best to run that into the buffers as well.

In the early to mid noughties it was great. It was usually on on the Saturday evening after qualifying and the field was full of the downhill racers doing it for a laugh. Once they stopped, probably due to the risk of injuries, it just felt a bit pointless.

Before my time, but seems like you're saying it was only good because the more famous DH athletes were there, and they weren't really trying anyway.

Enduro seems to me to be the race series that more closely matches “normal group riding” i.e. stroll to the top and kill yourself trying to keep up with the naturally talented descender in your group, so for the UCI and bike manufacturers to treat enduro so poorly that it has teams folding while DH and XC is more and more popular just seems, I dunno, like they don’t care?

TBH, where i am (and everywhere i've ridden/lived/raced/visited) Enduro is very much a niche.
Normal group riding is very much XC/trail riding, and outnumbers Enduro (probably) 10 to 1. Although a lot of the folk doing it are riding Enduro-a-like bikes.

Enduro seems to me to be the race series that more closely matches “normal group riding”

It does, but maybe it's about how the interest in enduro is all around the timed descents bit, but, we have that bigger/faster/better in DH already. Enduro could be seen as DH with more XC and XC doesn't interest this crowd or sell these bikes. Hence with 95% of these bikes now pedalling well at 160mm+ travel, the distance between stages and uphills don't add anything to the marketing value of the category apart from a lot of broadcasting faff.

A 'lightweight' class in DH might work well to develop and market good bikes for most of us - race the same DH run so the competition that pushes the brand's R+D is to close the time gaps between the full DH class and the Enduro bike class.

Class could be based on weight not travel, bikes must be a weight that you or I could accept for a full day's riding in Scotland or the Lakes. Rely on reviews to weed out any poor pedalling bikes - and I still see this category being majority e-bikes in future anyway. Perhaps EWS level Enduro racing should be on e-bikes already..

I always thought the 4x was a far more interesting and entertaining sport to watch than the DH was - Fort Bill when it was on was absolutely brilliant. It was far more engaging than the DH as you were seeing a real fight for first with multiple riders on the short course. DH (and to an extent, Enduro) is incredibly dull to watch - live or on TV - the 1 person passing and then waiting for the next one to pass in a few seconds just doesn't make interesting viewing material.

I watched the World Champs DH and really didn't enjoy it - the last 30 seconds as they came through the VisitScotland sign and then into the motorway and finish seemed to be the most exciting bit, the coverage just didn't do it justice.

I watched the XC stuff and was glued to the tv as there was so much more going on and could be seen...there was so much more interest and excitement going on.

However, I don't tend to watch any bike racing on the tv as it is all very dull, but the XC stuff proved more entertaining than the DH.

Sorry, very long-winded pile of mince.

The bike industry is apparently contracting due to lack of bike sales since Covid has ended and people are no longer buying bikes to go do some exercise...money is very tight; cost of living for most people is meaning they aren't spending as much on past times, so less bikes being sold. Also, the bike industry seems to be thinking increasing the price of all their stuff is going to encourage more sales...so in the end, no as much money in biking as before. The public are tightening their belts (in terms of spending money on bikes) and the bike industry is now starting to do the same and things needs to be trimmed/cut.

DH bikes have 1 purpose - to go down hill fast - they don't tend to go up hill unless they are pushed or carried, so I suspect sales won't be high, but are likely to be popular with the DH based. Enduro bikes do tend to be able to ride up and down hills, so I'd guess would have a much wider appeal. These are a niche within a niche so volumes are never going to be high.

Harsh reality but that is it...reality. I do feel sorry for the riders who aren't securing a ride for next year - despite me finding racing incredibly dull to watch, the riders have amazing skills and abilities (which I do admire) - but how they turn that into a sponsored ride and a way of earning a living is a new challenge - and I've no idea how to solve that.

“Damn, got to find some of them next year”.

I know, right. Some of those tracks looked like so much fun to ride.

Let’s face it, it’s not really that “pro” is it? I wonder how many of them actually make enough money to support themselves from the racing?

More than you suspect. You can’t sustain a multi year career from racing if your not being paid enough to be earning a living from it. Some of the most vocal in dh complaining about wages are making in excess of £100k per year after all costs according to their companies house submissions

DH (and to an extent, Enduro) is incredibly dull to watch – live or on TV

Well that's your opinion, but even Discovery's pisspoor coverage can't suck all the excitement out of the DH World Cup races for those of us who appreciate the amazing current crop of athletes.

DH (and to an extent, Enduro) is incredibly dull to watch – live or on TV – the 1 person passing and then waiting for the next one to pass in a few seconds just doesn’t make interesting viewing material.

I watched the World Champs DH and really didn’t enjoy it – the last 30 seconds as they came through the VisitScotland sign and then into the motorway and finish seemed to be the most exciting bit, the coverage just didn’t do it justice.

I watched the XC stuff and was glued to the tv as there was so much more going on and could be seen…there was so much more interest and excitement going on.

However, I don’t tend to watch any bike racing on the tv as it is all very dull, but the XC stuff proved more entertaining than the DH.

It probably won't be a shock, but i couldn't disagree more.... really really... DH is fantastic to watch on TV (for me)

I watched the World Champs DH and really didn’t enjoy it – the last 30 seconds as they came through the VisitScotland sign and then into the motorway and finish seemed to be the most exciting bit, the coverage just didn’t do it justice.

Further evidence on how challenging it is to broadcast these things to entertain people - I found that the dullest part of the track, and for the earlier riders that made up about 50% of their broadcast time.

Very few people got a tiny time benefit from it (either aero tuck or maniacal pedalling). And by that point it was fairly clear that someones run was a no-hoper anyway.

I do wonder in the case of GT if pon have decided they only want one brand doing enduro and that will be canondale given they are having more on track success at the moment. No point in having 2 brands fighting for the same bit of the pie.

the best bits of the old enduro were Vitals squids video and their slideshow/interviews post race. and the blind racing.

someone basically needs to take on the wyn TV type mantle to generate a connection from viewers to all the riders and tell their stories on a race by race and through the season.

No point in having 2 brands fighting for the same bit of the pie.

There is a point, they have 2 brands with different profiles to take market share with. For Pon it's 2 Vs the rest? That's if they want to support both doing it, if the sales justify the team costs - same call for any individual brand.

I still believe enduro can be great to watch and follow if packaged correctly, but the highlights and related media has gone backwards in recent years. Interest in the sport seems to be dipping considerably.

I think most have accepted that it isn't suitable for live broadcast, so instead we need a fit for purpose live feed with easy to follow timing and someone at the bottom of each stage getting comments from riders throughout the day. Followed by a highlights show that tells the story of the venue, race, personalities etc. rather than trying to replicate what has worked for DH.

Avoid clashes with DH to maximise the audience and encourage rider crossover.
Get it back to varied and interesting venues with race formats to suit each venue (mix of 1 and 2 day races).
Bring back the fantasy league.
Get course preview out earlier in the week. Create more content so people actually know there's a race coming.

The bigger Q I have on Enduro was always that yes, it represents what most of us do better than DH but so few of us ride competitively beyond a bit of mates racing mid-ride so is the race focus relevant enough to justify the costs, or is it just that so much of the bike industry is lost if it can't turn every aspect of riding bikes into a race?

I can watch a 2 min youtube clip and know a top rider can go crazy fast and loose on your bike, job done. That's the EWS's competition and it's cheaper, more creative, faster-reacting and shows a brand's creativity more easily. It doesn't ask for me to follow a series, it's just there if you want it and it grabs your attention. You could say there's a lot of that stuff fighting for your attention but it's where the riders and film makers have earning power I think, I tend to watch clips based on who's in them for their riding style (nothing to do with taking speed down to the millisecond) or how they're filmed.

do wonder in the case of GT if pon have decided they only want one brand doing enduro and that will be canondale

GT are pulling out of DH too I believe

Before my time, but seems like you’re saying it was only good because the more famous DH athletes were there, and they weren’t really trying anyway.

It was a bit of a mess if the truth is told. Some events were great, they'd basically make a 60-second DH track wide enough for 4 riders. Others were flat dull afterthoughts to the DH weekend.

It should have had massive potential.
- mid travel but slack bikes (i.e. what morphed into Enduro)
- a format that actually worked for TV
- ready made competitors / rivalry
- broader range of competitors, mostly DH riders, but there were a handful of BMX guys, and the all-rounders like Brian Lopez

What killed it:
- Rubbish tracks
- Creeping professionalism. This was in the dark ages between the early glory years of DH and the current era so there wasn't the same money riding on it. Riders would come out of what was seen as the drunken afterparty mates race with broken limbs and miss the rest of the DH season. These days that'd lose you a contract.

GT are pulling out of DH too I believe

Say what now ? Where've you heard that ?

Its interesting to watch this and other similar opinion all over the MTB media, podcasts, insta feeds etc.

I've been a MTB rider and sometime amateur racer my whole life, and followed it closely - right from checking the results and reports in Dirt Mag when I was a teenager, through to paying up for Discovery+ this year so I can keep up my interest in the new 'world series'.

I've personally raced DH, Enduro, and XC at points in my life. I love watching XC these days - its brilliant. DH - obviously, love it. I've enjoyed this year despite the end of the Red Bull era being touted to be a disaster (it wast, its been different, but fine).

I've never, ever got into watching, or following, Enduro. I dont really know who the riders are or who wins. Or where they race. I've never really watched it and its never really 'got' me interested like DH or XC has. In fact the most interest I've paid tends to be when someone I know from DH has a go at Enduro.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/race-day-photo-epic-chatel-enduro-world-cup-2023.html

Needs more and more of this.... it looks AWESOME.... but... well, coverage isn't often there.

“A ‘lightweight’ class in DH might work well to develop and market good bikes for most of us”

Enduro race bikes are a similar weight to DH bikes - it basically comes down to coil vs air suspension as the lighter forks are cancelled out by the heavier cassette and dropper post.

@weeksy a friend of a friend rides for them. He's without a ride for next year and I got the impression it's because they're pulling the team rather than him not being re-signed

I've watched a couple of EWS  highlight programs this year and it's just not as engaging as Downhill or XC. Watching a stream of riders ridding the same section at what is perceptively the same speed just doesn't do it. I've seen some local Enduro races and found it exciting to watch in person. Downhill is great to watch on screen either live or as a highlights package. XC is better live, watching the whole race.

Needs more and more of this…. it looks AWESOME…. but… well, coverage isn’t often there.

I think the problem is that MTB as a sport really suits photography.

A bit like surfing.

@weeksy a friend of a friend rides for them. He’s without a ride for next year and I got the impression it’s because they’re pulling the team rather than him not being re-signed

I thought it was fairly common knowledge they were going to be one of the casualties & pulling the pin. Not surprising, as they have a lot of riders, which is a lot of money on logistics alone, before you even consider salaries & expenses.

Coupled with no-one ever buying their bikes, makes it very hard to justify any kind of ROI.

There is going to be a lot of riders fighting for contracts next year. Pretty sure it’s not just down to the mishandling of the EWS this year, more of a symptom of the bike industry as a whole being the basket case it always has.

Start of the year I bumped into Greg Callaghan in Innerleithen, asked when the enduro kicked off, he informed me that they had already done two that year!!

The ESO have turned EDR and DH to shit in under a year, changes that wern't needed and a recipe that worked, they just had to tweak it.

For someone who would sit and watch the DH quali's and finals to not bothering at all this year, down to the shocking coverage and the muppets they had behind the mic's. Have Gwin and Myriam at the last round was a welcome change and actually watched a bit, needed a mute button for Cedric and RC.

Red Bull Rally manage to cover a lot of the cars in their end of day  snippets, albeit not as long as it used to be. The eurosport coverage of the Dakar is pretty meh, redbull is shorter and goes way further. The likes of Fox do an amazing job with their dialled series.

There are a few people that have made a few quid out of all this and left everything in a pretty shit state. Time for a much needed riders union and for the riders to have more input. Could see Redbull launching a rival series, which would atttract a lot of people.

I think there is a parallel here with motorsport.

World Rally and Touring Cars are amazing as a sport - but has always struggled for TV appeal and therefore coverage. In many ways it is a sport that should appeal to manufacturers as a brilliant way of marketing cars that look like production versions. But the format of multiple 'rounds' or stages is difficult to put on camera well...

Yet F1, with all it's flaws and foibles, dominates the TV exposure of motorsport. It is the 'one hit' race, the exciting finale, the bash and crash etc etc that wins out. And so it has the money. And the money means exposure, which means more money....

mountain biking is more fun to do than to watch.

FTFY. IMHO. I've never got into watching mountain bike racing. There was some XC on TV the other week whilst I was flicking through the channels. God it was dull... Red Bull Hardline I think was the last DH type riding I watched on TV and that was kinda bearable given the bloody huge features and the seemingly good coverage of the track as well as the more compact format of it. General DH and Enduro though (didn't even Enduro was televised), theres only so many times you can watch a person on a bike go past a few cameras littering a race track. I have a similar opinion about F1 though as well - must be bloody ace to take part in but watching it is just cars going around a track with a few overtakes.

Coupled with no-one ever buying their bikes

Shouldn't laugh, but someone had to say it.

Really hope they'll still be supporting Wyn, the MVP of MTB.

Or maybe he should be going on to bigger things with his media work anyway.

World Rally and Touring Cars are amazing as a sport – but has always struggled for TV appeal and therefore coverage. In many ways it is a sport that should appeal to manufacturers as a brilliant way of marketing cars that look like production versions. But the format of multiple ’rounds’ or stages is difficult to put on camera well…

Yet F1, with all it’s flaws and foibles, dominates the TV exposure of motorsport. It is the ‘one hit’ race, the exciting finale, the bash and crash etc etc that wins out. And so it has the money. And the money means exposure, which means more money….

FTFY. IMHO. I’ve never got into watching mountain bike racing. There was some XC on TV the other week whilst I was flicking through the channels. God it was dull… Red Bull Hardline I think was the last DH type riding I watched on TV and that was kinda bearable given the bloody huge features and the seemingly good coverage of the track as well as the more compact format of it. General DH and Enduro though (didn’t even Enduro was televised), theres only so many times you can watch a person on a bike go past a few cameras littering a race track. I have a similar opinion about F1 though as well – must be bloody ace to take part in but watching it is just cars going around a track with a few overtakes.

I think this is why XC still does well despite being uncool.

You can sit down infront of the stream and it immediately make sense. There the brit from Team Ineos, there's MVP and WVA, there's Absalon, Schurter, etc, you can see who's in the lead, pick someone to cheer for and it's all over in an hour or so.

Contrast to DH where where to a casual observer it's just one person every 3 minutes picking their way round the muddy corner that happened to be within terradek range of the commentary box to got a camera to whilst the commentary screams that 'something' must have happened in the woods off-camera as he's missing a wheel/tyre/arm and that's his race over.

Even my OH get's into the XC, whereas when the DH comes on I get a handful of difficult to answer questions about who's doing well (because the fast guys haven't gone yet) and a comment about how she'd be more into cycling if there was a chairlift and a cafe like that.

Why would GT have just released both a new DH and a new Enduro bike? Weird.

@weeksy they were probably already made 2 years ago and awaiting parts. Quite a lot of brands in that position apparently, and then demand fell off a cliff.

World Rally was huge in the 70's through to the 90's Colin MacRae era. Loads of mainstream TV coverage, big crowds lining stages etc.

Back then it was long distance multi day events with stages over a wide area, then cost cutting kicked in and shrank the overall distances and turned it into multiple short sprints to make it more TV friendly. And that nearly killed it off.

Sounds familiar?

Just to add, I think GT's sponsorship of some good athletes - and of Wyn TV above all - have done a great job of making the brand seem more relevant.

And their bikes have gone from ugly and pointless, to more visually acceptable and on-trend in geometry.

But they still don't seem to be getting much market penetration (in the UK at least).

From the previous page

If GT are the bike of choice for many privateers (DH per pinkbike)

Obviously the online presence doesn't reflect reality, but a bit of well placed advertising had the desired effect.

Privateers (as in, anyone not on a team) at WC level seem to mainly be on Commencals and Santa Cruzes - based purely on me watching the races.

Perhaps our man in the UK/regional pits Weeksy can tell us more about what the average UK amateur is spending their hard earned on.

From our experience the same can be said in France @ayjaydoubleyou
The only time I saw a GT was when they had factory team members entered in the races.

Yep GT have definitely not been known as the privateers bike of choice. They have been known as a bike even their own riders didn't like, and the new one is rumoured to be very snappy (I've only seen one failure but it was high profile and spectacular!).

Apart from the DH bike I've not seen a GT in the flesh for years. I wouldn't even know where to buy one in the UK.

I was at the IXS Cup in Verbier last Friday.

Don't recall seeing any GTs.

Loads and loads of Commencals, quite a few SCs and Treks.

You can sit down infront of the stream and it immediately make sense. There the brit from Team Ineos, there’s MVP and WVA, there’s Absalon, Schurter, etc, you can see who’s in the lead, pick someone to cheer for and it’s all over in an hour or so.

So do we 'need' mass-start DH event of some kind? Should Enduro move to a set of group starts for each stage?

Edit: 😉

Even my OH get’s into the XC, whereas when the DH comes on I get a handful of difficult to answer questions about who’s doing well

But then my OH (who can't even ride a bike) loves DH becasue of the speed and the "just on the right-side of out of control" that the top riders have, she loves the Frenchies, has missed Amuary all year, and worries about Goldstone and Iles (fellow Canucks) crashing. It's about the the only sport she'll sit and watch, and even came with me to listen to Greg do his speaking tour a couple of years ago.

Pretty sure it’s not just down to the mishandling of the EWS this year, more of a symptom of the bike industry as a whole being the basket case it always has.

To be fair to the bike industry they were supporting racing pretty consistently until covid came along, orders and supply were all over the place and then the economy stalled. Canning teams and letting staff go due to covid era spending decisions effecting budgets now is a shame but it's always easy to see theses errors in hindsight.

jameso
Full Member

The bigger Q I have on Enduro was always that yes, it represents what most of us do better than DH but so few of us ride competitively beyond a bit of mates racing mid-ride so is the race focus relevant enough to justify the costs, or is it just that so much of the bike industry is lost if it can’t turn every aspect of riding bikes into a race?

TBH it's the other way round, the industry was incredibly slow to pick up on enduro, especially the US parts of it. I mean, so were we, the French had it absolutely nailed long before we "invented" it 😉 But the industry's tried very hard to catch up/get in front of it, and I think that's had almost the same effect sometimes.

My Mrs will watch DH & XC but not the Enduro Highlights - as "it's boring and doesn't show anything".

I have to say I agree with her, no one above the top 3-4 riders get any coverage in the limited, woefully short highlights show.

My 12yo Daughter is dabbling with racing this year, she's done an XC race, has her first DH on Sunday - she asked me what 'Enduro' was. I explained it as a race where you ride between timed 'mini DH' stages. Her reply was "Why not just race DH and use an uplift......."

I also noticed from Facebook that one of the beginner/mini Enduro series cancelled an upcoming race due to lack of entrants, where as our local Winter DH series (with no uplift)  has over 100 entrants to the first race.

It's a pity that Enduro seems to be on the decline as I think it's a great race format - pedal around the woods/mountains with your mates and race down some timed stages.

Would be nice if the likes of BC supported a proper national series, especially with there being and Enduro Worlds Champs race next year.

the industry was incredibly slow to pick up on enduro

They were. But slow or not, what I mean is, maybe World level Pro racing just isn't as relevant to this type of riding, the EWS itself prob isn't having much impact on bike sales in this area. The boost to sales wasn't there relative to the brand's investment? I'm speculating though, not saying this from a view of data. I suspect if you were doing OK in DH already then EWS probably didn't add much to the brand profile or sales?

“I also noticed from Facebook that one of the beginner/mini Enduro series cancelled an upcoming race due to lack of entrants, where as our local Winter DH series (with no uplift)  has over 100 entrants to the first race.”

I think the mini enduro that recently got cancelled, was a mid-week daytime race. Everyone’s backs at work/school, so was always going to be a tough sell.

GT are pulling out of DH too I believe

which makes sense as pon have Santa Cruz as their dh brand and SC don’t do an enduro team despite making very popular enduro bikes.

@orena45 hadn't twigged it was a mid week race, so fair point.