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Couple of really nice builds there, they look great . Needs more rawness though!
I vote for Geometron. Tried and tested. Excellent support plus Mr Porter’s design skills. Has garnered a very keen following.
Yeah it’s more expensive but it’s European made German Engineering.
Nicolai have an incredibly local following.
Proper balanced geometry and now the EXT super shock
Try one.
I did in Aug 2015 and haven’t looked back. My riding is still improving, love it.
I’m now on my third. (No need but - First update 2nd G16 with longer chainstays, next a G1 - even longer)
I’d encourage you to have a go.
I vote for Geometron. Tried and tested. Excellent support plus Mr Porter’s design skills. Has garnered a very keen following.
Yeah it’s more expensive but it’s European made German Engineering.
Nicolai have an incredibly local following.
Proper balanced geometry and now the EXT super shock
Try one.
I did in Aug 2015 and haven’t looked back. My riding is still improving, love it.
I’m now on my third. (No need but – First update 2nd G16 with longer chainstays, next a G1 – even longer)
I’d encourage you to have a go.
I have just received my Geometron but it was a tough call between the G1 and the Privateer, there is almost £3k difference between the XT build G1 and the Privateer build!
Yeah, Geometron is a world apart price wise!
Those that have taken delivery -how are you finding the rear end suppleness? The Enduro review mentions it gets very progressive quite quickly, but that the production bikes come with a lighter tune, and that's one of the things putting me off, especially as a pretty light rider who's had trouble getting suspension to work well for him in the past.
Well, my bike has Airdrop has been dismantled and currently sat on Pinkbike #stealthadvert so will be putting in an order for a raw P3 when a few more bits have sold - looks like I've missed the boat and will be waiting until September though!
Loving that the Geometron is so good that it’s taken 3 attempts (so far) to get right 😉
I've had a Specialized Stumpjumper Evo Pro for the last 12 months and the S3 size is just a tad too small at 6ft 2.
Privateer was on my list - P4 size
Just worried the wheelbase will be ridiculous!
Also, the SWAT box is hard to give up!
What length dropper are people using? Size p3 frame
P3 size here as well. 210mm OneUp, saddle height is 31 inches from the centre of the bb to the seat rails.
I am hoping my P3 raw frame is here this week. Budget build nothing fancy. Left over parts.
@Sir HC cheers, are you using the full 210 with the post slammed in the frame? Just wondering If my existing 180 is fine
I have 90mm of post exposed (from the top of the collar to the seat clamp).
Oh wow ok. 210 it is!
I was was nearly sold but ...
Reach is fine, says how it will feel when stood up. But the 80 degrees seat post means that the ETT measurement is 60mm shorter that my Cotic flaremax. Which means it will be very cramped.
They look great, they sound like they have done their research - but I just don’t understand when the “ short” TT ( and I realise it is linked into the seat angle but ....)
I'm still very tempted to put my name down for a full build but not sure I want to be stuck riding my hardtail until Sept (already sold my Airdrop).
It's a toss up between the waiting for the 161 or getting a Radon Swoop 170 - very similar geo and price but the Radon has a slightly slacker seat angle and better spec (36/x2/x01)
Anyone received a full bike from Privateer yet that can talk me into waiting?
The geometry geeks is a good start for comparison, however it is very dependant on the accuracy and the method of which the measurements are made (e.g toptube length and effective seat angle).
Privateer has a 76 degree actual seat tube, you stay closer to the bars as the saddle height changes, unlike something with 71-73.
This is the first bike I've not slammed the saddle all the way forward, I can slide my saddle 10mm further rearward and the Phenom saddle I have has a shorter overhang than most.
Its a well build frame, very tidy welds, good hardware, comes with a top shock, excellent cable routing and excellent geometry for a fraction of the price of its counterparts. Do have to ask the question what the big boys are playing at...
I've had the invoice for the final balance on my complete bike. Getting excited! Anyone else got theirs? Does anyone know what weight their 161 build comes in at?
Been mening to post here. How are people getting on with their shred sleds? (apologies)
I may have seen the prototype shorter travel (141?) and I may have had a tiny go on it. If the 161s prove sound I think I could be very tempted by the shorter travel bike. Very, very tempted
Any idea when the 141 "may" be released? Any idea if it "may" have a 150mm fork?
I’ve had the invoice for the final balance on my complete bike. Getting excited! Anyone else got theirs? Does anyone know what weight their 161 build comes in at?
From https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-ride-privateer-161-an-affordable-ish-race-ready-machine.html
As shown, the Privateer weighs in at 35.2 pounds without pedals, and the frame with shock weighs 9.8 pounds. Keep in mind that that weight is with EXO+ casing tires – toss on some heavier DH rubber and you're looking at a bike that's pushing 37 pounds. Weight matters more to some riders than others, but it's worth noting that the 161 is on the heavier side of the spectrum. Even if you threw all sorts of lighter weight (and more expensive) carbon parts on it it would still be a challenge to get it below 33 pounds; something to consider if the numbers on a scale are important to you.
He's been!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HDoHXFEPvNMZPyCp6
Delivered to workplace on Friday after a slight bit of hassle with DPD (it was due on Thursday but for some reason they didn't have it on the van, I think it got sent to the wrong depot)
I can't drive at the moment due to health issues so I took the bus in to work in anticipation of riding the new toy back home, not what I'd normally do with a new bike as I like to get the most vulnerable areas taped up, cable and hose lengths corrected and everything set up as best I can before taking to the trails, but needs must.
So, I unboxed her, fitted the front wheel, some pedals and the handlebars.
It was supplied with no air in the tyres and the sealant still in pouches... fortunately the tyres must have already been seated as I was able to squirt the unicorn milk in through the valves and then pump them up with my mini-pump (I forgot to bring a presta adaptor so I could use the compressor at work)
I also moved the shifter and dropper remote inboard of the brake levers.
And that was about it really... everything else was set at a good starting point and I'm lucky enough to have lots of F.O.D offpiste trails between work and home so I hit a few tracks around Pillowell and Mallards pike on the way back.
First impressions: This thing could smash it's way through anything!
Very stable, secure and planted feeling.
It's definitely no lightweight, but I don't see that as an issue with the intended use.
The tyres (wild enduro) are a bit draggy so perhaps I'll change the rear for something faster rolling at some point.
It isn't sprightly uphill, but it's very comfortable on steep climbs - I love the steep seattube angle and any worries that I had that it may be too steep very quickly dissappeared.
I was also unsure about sizing being on the border of p3/p4 at 6'2". I went p4 due to short legs/long body and don't regret it at all.
It's probably the wrong bike for a lot of the local stuff, (I was well aware of this before purchase) but when Wales is open again it's going to be fun in the valleys off piste trails for sure.
If you want a great value, hard hitting endu-r-e-o speedwagon for steep, fast and rough tracks (see what I did there... sorry!) then I think the 161 is a fine choice
I'm going to take it out for another blast later and have a play with a few different settings and bar heights.
Has anyone else got their's yet? How are you getting on with it?
I have to admit i was very tempted - it ticks a lot of boxes but ... whilst the reach is kind of std for LLS bikes, the top tube is very short ( it works out as 6 or so cms shorter than my FlareMax). Obviously it is because of the seat tube angle. But unless I am honking up a bit of hill, or coming down a twitchy bit, I tend to sit in the saddle.
Being tall, but short legged, long top tubes work well.
Reach is a kind of arbitrary measure perpendicular to the BB. Sure, it’s a measurement point but I have no idea why it is considered important. So basically the 161 seems to have along reach yet a short top tube. Can’t see that being fun on an all day ride
Reach is a kind of arbitrary measure perpendicular to the BB. Sure, it’s a measurement point but I have no idea why it is considered important.
Because ETT tells you nothing about how a bike will handle/fit when descending, which is what all these LLS bikes are primarily designed for
“But unless I am honking up a bit of hill, or coming down a twitchy bit, I tend to sit in the saddle.”
Do you really do all but your most tech descending sitting down?!!
“But unless I am honking up a bit of hill, or coming down a twitchy bit, I tend to sit in the saddle.”
Do you really do all but your most tech descending sitting down?!!
Okay - maybe I am doing it wrong - but yeah - when I can sit , I sit... when I need to be out of the pedals to throw the bike about a bit, get extra power then I stand ...
But I do not ride 20% in the saddle and 80% standing, probably more like the other way. That is why, for me top tube matters ...
ut I do not ride 20% in the saddle and 80% standing
Nobody does. You'll always spend far more time in the saddle unless you are using some kind of uplift. However, as mentioned before such bikes still have a heavy slant towards downhill performance with the other aspects manageable rather than optimised. Sounds like you're really not the target market tbf
You're comparing to the FlareMax, which I'd say has an unusually long ETT, because it's a bike which has long reach, but doesn't have the step seat angle to match- it's still only 75.
Seat angle is always going to dictate the difference between ETT and reach. My large G1 has the same reach as the S4 Privateer, but the seat angle is a degree slacker, so there's about a 10mm differnce in ETT. Certainly don't find the G1 at all uncomfortable for long days.
My partner has been throwing his around at trails across the USA, including Angelfire and Eureka Springs, both of which are sufficiently huge and gnarly that my nerves are frayed. He has it set up with an EXT Storia shock. @Fahzure on Instagram if you want to see pics. He's also got a G1, so his 161 is set up to be a bit more nimble and jumpy, and his G1 is a bit more DH focussed.
If you're on this thread because you've had a new bike day recently, maybe you'd like to consider this:
<div> https://worldbicyclereliefuk.charitycheckout.co.uk/cf/singletrack-supporting-world-bicycle-relief </div>
<div></div>
You’re comparing to the FlareMax, which I’d say has an unusually long ETT, because it’s a bike which has long reach, but doesn’t have the step seat angle to match- it’s still only 75.
Seat angle is always going to dictate the difference between ETT and reach. My large G1 has the same reach as the S4 Privateer, but the seat angle is a degree slacker, so there’s about a 10mm differnce in ETT. Certainly don’t find the G1 at all uncomfortable for long days
Indeed, I am probably not Mr Enduro / Gnar ... but unless you are going to sit , then there is no point in having a steep seat angle. And steep seat angle means short real top tube. TBH reach is not the be all and end all that the industry makes it out to be ../
TBH reach is not the be all and end all that the industry makes it out to be ../
Nobody is saying it is. However it’s an important figure that was missed from geometry charts for a long time and is very relevant to those that enjoy a lot of winch and plummet riding. No single geometry number gives you the full story
Any more build pictures?
Swapped out the Rockshox for Fox and drivetrain needed replacing, so swapped for Shimano XTR. Was finding the Super Deluxe to feel a bit wooden and couldn't get it how I wanted it to feel, always felt like it was over damped. X2 is a massive improvement, would like to try a coil on it at some point, but dont really want the faff of swapping springs in and out!
Black frames are awesome. I built up a raw P3 but maybe going again with black.
@Sir HC that really is a really good looking bike. You must be well chuffed with how that's turned out.
You must be doing some miles if you've worn out a drivetrain on a Privateer already
@Sir HC that really is a really good looking bike. You must be well chuffed with how that’s turned out.
Pleased with it for sure! Its taken considerably shorter to get right than my old enduro which took 18 months of fork swaps, killing a couple of STX shocks and a frame warranty. Was a bit of a learning experience, albeit an expensive!
You must be doing some miles if you’ve worn out a drivetrain on a Privateer already
Drivetrain was off the enduro, so was already at the end of its life. Currently 765miles and 125,000ft. Off to France in a couple of weeks, so that will double and will get the shock and forks dialled in a bit more.
They're really nice looking bikes imho. Just look super aggressive-progressive
@SirHC is that a 2020 X2? looks very good that build, my frame is scheduled for 1st week in september... woop!
@howsyourdad1
Its the old style one, didn't fancy being a guinea pig with the new one, old one has a nice wide adjust window. Reviews were along the lines of, got an x2 already, new x2 is a bit better but not really worth it. Plus that one was half price.
@Sir HC cheers, where did you pick it up from?
That was from CRC of all places, tried to buy one from Sprung, but far too much hassle in the end!
Tried a megneg, it made it a bit better but added more complication.
One of these is on my list for my next frame. The p2 is very similar in sizing to my rocketmax so would work for me I think. Miss the plushness of my airdrop edit so thinking this could be a good logical frame for me. Anyone running one with a coil? A lot of reviews talk of it as a full on race machine but is that the case? It’s one of 3 frames on my list that I can’t get a test on!
Am very interested in this bike for the eldest, she loves steep gnarr and is planning to start racing as soon as cv19 opens things up. She has saved a fair bit and I have promised to match her savings, already on £1200 so not far off the total at 2980 for the full bike. Only issue is they don't seem to do the full bike in the P1 size anyone know why? The p1 is a perfect bike for short people and No1 child is my genes strongly so its unlikely she will get beyond 5'5". Its not like she will grow out of it hence my unbridled generosity..
If not this then what other gnarr enduro bike?
Ok I found on the website to email them about P1 sized builds, I'm assuming they will come later in the year, as long is its in before we go to the alps then we will all be happy! So I have done, will report back.
Looks great, from a known unknown brand and the price is scarcely believable, BUT! (arm chair engineer time) one look at that geometry chart has me concerned it’s going to feel short as. The seat angle is so steep, that even though the P3 size has a 490mm reach, the eff. TT is only just over 600mm, which is comically short for a bike designed for riders up to 6ft 3″ (or so they say) To get the same saddle to bars position as on my Soul, my desk top workings show I’d need a 90mm stem!
Which was the process I went through _ and the suggestion that you don’t sit down when riding. I do ... hence at 6ft3in, the reach is TT is comically short.
I did email Privateer - they never responded ...
Do they mean, you don't sit down while descending?
Climbing and pedalling as long as there is no knee or toe overlap, you just sit more upright the shorter the reach yes? Seems more comfy to me? Or am I deluded?
It's clearly not the bike to buy if you do a lot of pedalling about on flatter trails, but it's apparently an amazing winch & plummet machine.
They appear to have toned down the seat angle a bit on the 141, which is likely to be ridden on more pedally trails.
It’s clearly not the bike to buy if you do a lot of pedalling about on flatter trails, but it’s apparently an amazing winch & plummet machine.
The things is lots of people ride a lot of flattish trails and climbing to get to the winch an plummet...
chakaping
Full MemberIt’s clearly not the bike to buy if you do a lot of pedalling about on flatter trails, but it’s apparently an amazing winch & plummet machine.
okay , so it is focused bike park tool. Fair enough but it will limited its usefulness to mortals.
The more important measurement is the offset between the saddle (sit bones) and the centre of the BB. The 161 puts you much closer to the BB than other bikes, so I ended up running my saddle all the way back. IMO its probably a bit too steep (given everyone running their saddles quite far back!) and given the actual/effective angle is very close (which is a good thing).
Climbing and pedalling as long as there is no knee or toe overlap, you just sit more upright the shorter the reach yes? Seems more comfy to me? Or am I deluded?
You wont get toe overlap with a 64 degree head angle!
You do sit more upright, it puts more weight on your hands is what I found, you tend to then run the bar a bit higher, which for me was a compromise for descending.
OK thanks. Whats it like on flatish pedally bits then?
We often do 25/30k rides which incorporate steepest and wildist trails, but there is a lot of 'trail riding' in between, I mean is it bad or just overbiked? For me overbiked is irrelevant, but if there is anything actually negative about it then that would be good to know.
okay , so it is focused bike park tool. Fair enough but it will limited its usefulness to mortals.
An Enduro bike being focused on Enduro riding isn't really a shocker is it?
Yeah I wouldn't say it is a bike park tool, its a steep rooty rocky descender.
Just had an email back from Privateer about size small builds. Apparently they don't do them which is a shame. It's always cheaper to buy a complete bike than buy up the bits and the complete build is cheap for what it is. Oh dear. One disappointed kid.
Hi Ian,
Thanks for your enquiry and your interest in the Privateer.We only supply the P1 as a frame with shock, we just cannot get the forks etc in the small qtys we need for the P1. If you decide to proceed we will offer a 15% discount on a wheelset to go with the frame.
I hope this answers your questions, if you need any further information please get back to us.
Regards
John
Privateer frame and second hand for a load of the parts? 15% of a wheel set isn't a bad place to start
The new Vitus Sommet has a cracking spec and would be a bit lighter for your lass, might be worth a look (not sure if/when in stock obvs).
We often do 25/30k rides which incorporate steepest and wildist trails, but there is a lot of ‘trail riding’ in between, I mean is it bad or just overbiked? For me overbiked is irrelevant, but if there is anything actually negative about it then that would be good to know.
I think we're at (or at least approaching) a fairly mature point in bike geometry where there are no right or wrong bikes but every one is a compromise of angles and lengths.
A steeper seat tube makes it easier to pedal up steep stuff, but probably makes it worse / less comfy on long flatter rides. So if your riding is mostly either up or down steep trails (with very little flat riding) then the Privateer geo is probably decent.
Of course there are downsides of having a big bike with big bike angles when you don't need it. Without being patronising, that's part of what being 'over-biked' means! It'll be heavier and less agile on flatter trails, more of a lump to haul up gentle, long climbs and probably less comfortable to ride for long periods. Does your daughter want to be fast over the entire 30k ride, or just fast on the 2 minute steep sections?
I would guess that a steeper seat tube is less important for 'winch & plummet' if your winching is all done on fire-roads. On my bike I often find myself perched on the front of a seat rammed all the way forward in its rails when I'm riding techy climbs. My riding is almost always either up or down something relatively steep (very little flat) so I would probably benefit from a seat that's further forwards.
Ultimately though, seat tube angle is just one facet of a bike's geometry and I wouldn't obsess about it if the rest of the bike looks decent.
I think we’re at (or at least approaching) a fairly mature point in bike geometry where there are no right or wrong bikes but every one is a compromise of angles and lengths
I agree with this, I've gone from hardtail, trail bike to enduro bike and now LLS because the bikes couldnt really handle the more technical or speedy trails that I wanted to ride in the way I want to ride as my taste for riding has developed.
But each jump up the line meant you left something behind, I used to love riding the hardtail and trail bike around the local trail centre, I then found the off piste and non trail centre riding and the bikes couldnt handle it the way I wanted to ride, I moved bike to handle these trails but then found the bike didnt handle the trail centre as well, its all a compromise at the end of the day.
Vitus sommet a good shout, similar geometry other than seat tube. Same price for v similar build spec.
https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/privateer-161-2019-p1,vitus-sommet-27-2021-s/
mashr
Privateer frame and second hand for a load of the parts? 15% of a wheel set isn’t a bad place to start
Its not the same as a new bike though.
Its not the same as a new bike though.
You can’t buy father-daughter quality bike building time though 😉
True.
You can’t buy father-daughter quality bike building time though
Yeah, she’ll get to learn new swear words and everything🤣
Yeah, she’ll get to learn new swear words and everything🤣
At no point did I suggest it would be an entirely positive experience 😀
She's nearly 14. I learn my profanity from her.
An Enduro bike being focused on Enduro riding isn’t really a shocker is it?
It definitely says “all rounder’ in the Singletrack review .... didn’t know that meant Enduro these days. Thanks for bringing me up to speed .
Relying on reviews often isn’t the best place to start. Privateer say this “ Privateer bikes was founded on the idea of creating a bike that fits the needs and demands of it’s namesake. Progressive race-ready geometry combined with rider focused features, ensures the 161 can handle seasons worth of abuse”. Not a hint of compromise there really
Actually this bit is probably better: “ Developed with Top 20 EWS rider Matt Stuttard and the Enduro World Series in mind - The 161 features progressive geometry to descend as fast as possible, whilst reducing fatigue with a low effort climbing position. By reducing upper body stress on steep transitions, readiness and speed will increase during the timed stages.”
So the 161 is a 148 boost frame with 53mm chainline can you just buy the Hunt enduro wide 148 boost wheels with a HG freehub and fit any 8/9/10/11 (and possibly some 12) speed cassettes?
Or is it better to go Microspline or Sram XD? Not bothered about 12 speed but there are not too many boost cranks (in 165mm for daughter) that are not 12 speed...
Basically help me spec her drivetrain!
Yep, it's a 148mm boost frame.
I'd probably go with 12 speed microspline for forwards compatibility- it's a new standard which hopefully won't be replaced in the near future.
That said, you can get deore 10 and 11 speed with wide range cassettes now which might help the budget a bit. You could pair a m5120 mech with wide range m5100 11 speed cassette and some m7000 slx cranks with 53mm chainline. I'm making the assumption that despite all the covid disruption that this is all available... but it could be a way into a solid, dependable and affordable way into boost widerange 11 speed.
I have 12 speed slx on my 161, it's o.k - the shifting under load is amazing but I don't think the derailleur is as solid as the 11 speed options, and they seem more sensitive to maladjustment and mud too.
I have a 4 year old xt 11 speed system that is going strong, i will be gutted when it dies, so I might hunt for bargains. Thanks for the advice.
Is it ok to get a slx 12 speed single crank and chainring and run 11 speed chain? will it still retain? Ie mix 12 speex crank with 11 speed chain/mech/deraillur?
Thread revive! How are people finding them?
I know everything is a compromise. The vast vast majority of my riding is winch and plummet on rough techy scottish naturals but sometimes I throw in the odd normal 'trail ride' or biger mountain day on tamer descents and can't afford two bikes.
Too much of a compromise? as long as its not awful thats ok for me
cheers
My daughter is getting on very well with her P1 161. I was struggling to keep up before, now she is long gone. Apparently its super long, stable, corners like its on rails, and so far I have not been called upon to fix anything...
Whats the biggest water bottle people ar fitting in these frames?
specifically P3, 161
cheers
I've just ordered a black P2 Frame/shock//fork deal. Can't wait! There were heaps of them at the Naughty this weekend. Seemed like they were going well.
Keep going back and looking at frames on their website. The 141 ticks every box on the check list!
im struggling with the crankset on my 141. needs 2 spacers behind the driver side BB otherwise both the crank arm and the chainring fould the chainstays. im pretty sure this is throwing out the chainline giving me noisy transmission. i must be doing something wrong but cannot fathom wtf it is!?
its a raceface aeffect boost crankset.
How is everyone else getting on with their bikes?
My daughter (14) loves her 161 still, which believe me is a miracle if you know anything about how fickle 14 year olds are. She has started doing some of the steeper more gnarly surrey hills stuff that gives me pause. The bike seems to give her a lot of confidence. Still reliable so far.
Anyone between p3 and p4 bought a p4 and regretted getting the bigger size?
I’m 6’2 foot could go for either
Cheers
James