[Closed] Pricing of that Fox dropper

Fools and their money are easily parted. Soon everyone will have half a cheap suspension fork holding up their saddle.

the real giggle is that anyone would be stupid enough to buy the kashima version

Either don't buy one or get it from the states?

Personally I hate it when this happens but them the breaks.

They didn't even make the effort to just make the UK price the same number in dollars like they normally do, but higher!?

That pricing does seem to take the piss. Are Mojo buying them at RRP and shipping them here or something daft?

At that price they'll be as rare as DOSS were.

Then of course you've other import duties to consider. The cost of shipping the things from the US to here, the margin for the distributor so they can pay salaries, the (often notably higher than us) rent and the like, (notably higher than the US) onward shipping costs and so on the margin for the retailer to do the same.

As you rightly point out there is also an element of VAT shown in the UK rates too where as federal and state sales taxes aren't shown on the US price.

It doesn't seem so outlandish really.

kimbers - Member

the real giggle is that anyone would be stupid enough to buy the kashima version

Saw the price thing coming - same with all Fox stuff.

US price doesn't include a remote according to Pinkbike making it $379 before tax if you want the one which shows you have more money than sense.

Is the kashima version really just for tarts to colour match?

Is the kashima version really just for tarts to colour match?

According to Pinkbike it apparently offers better sealing... (written in the comments on their first look) but I think that's the general idea. Luckily I run Pike / Monarch so black is the logical choice.

I think that cable mechanism looks a lot like my KS-Lev though which hasn't proved overly robust.

cycle parts duty is 4%, and is payable on the part and shipping. VAT @ 20% is payable on the price after duty and the shipping.

A UK distributor is not going to be paying $25 to ship them individually, but rather $250 to ship 100.

Furthermore the UK distributor is not buying these at US RRP, but wholesale, otherwise what's the point of being a distributor?

So, if you want to get it yourself, it's $264 + $25 p&p from a US online retailer of choice. Converted at £0.69:$1 is £199. Add duty of £8, and VAT of £41.50 and you get to £248.

The world is too small for distributors who charge too much.

I think you are a bit off.

Going on the Kashima version + a remote (assuming the comment about no remote as standard is correct):

Total customs value (CIF): £262.14
This is the amount that customs values your import at
- Duty: £12.32
- VAT: £54.89
Total import duty & taxes due: £67.21
This is the amount that needs to be paid to customs
- Product, shipping & insurance: £262.14
[b]Total landed cost: £329.35[/b]
This is the total cost of importing, including product, shipping, insurance and import duty & taxes
at exchange rate of 1 GBP = 1.45 USD

From here: http://www.dutycalculator.com/new-import-duty-and-tax-calculation/saved_calculations/view_details/203230818/

And that is before you add in anything for shipping and insurance which will also be subject to duty and the handling fee by your courier so the £339 starts to look pretty good I'm afraid. If we could buy them in this country without import and VAT then they would be nice and cheap here too.

You think shipping will be £50? I get a price of $33.

French cheese is more durable than Kashima. As for pricing Fox will charge what the market will bear and that willbe dependent more on competitors pricing that pricing in the US.

I get to £300 shipped with duty paid. That's still a £40 saving for doing naff all.

Who said shipping was £50?

Fools and their money are easily parted. Soon everyone will have half a cheap suspension fork holding up their saddle.

Yep, those fools, riding their bikes properly and not having to stop to lower their saddle on undulating trails.

Fools I say! Foooooools!

get to £300 shipped with duty paid. That's still a £40 saving for doing naff all.

Yeah, but you're not paying for your staff who work at the importer, or the warehouse costs etc.

No one is gonna force anyone to buy one, you can buy it from the states, or you can buy it at the reduced no RRP price that CRC and others will have it at.

Yeah those evil money grabbing distributors that will be sorting all the warranty claims and having to stock all the spare parts everyone needs, why should anyone make money on anything...

You guys are weird. A B1 Reverb is £399 UK RRP, Fox bring out a hopefully more reliable contender for £299 and you shit all over it?

Daffy - Member
I get to £300 shipped with duty paid. That's still a £40 saving for doing naff all.

eh?

Kashima post: $314
Remote: $65
Shipping: lets say $33 as per your calculation
Total: $412

According to Google that is £283.10 today.

Duty @ 4.7% = £13.31
New total = £296.41

VAT @ 20% = £59.28

New total = £355.69

Add to that you might not be getting quite so good an exchange rate from your bank and be charged a foreign currency fee, or if paying through paypal you will be getting hit with their exchange rate. Also add the handling fee by the courier (£8-15).

And why is the margin (both % and actual pounds) larger on the cheaper Performance post than on the (as Kimber says) rather pointless Kashima number?

i don't see the issue with pricing, isn't it the same as a lev? US pricing cheaper shocker. I recall pinkbike saying the doss was by far the most reliable post out there, gravity dropper excluded. Hopefully they'll carry that into this post. That said I suspect my money will be going to magura.

Gotama - Member
i don't see the issue with pricing, isn't it the same as a lev? US pricing cheaper shocker. I recall pinkbike saying the doss was by far the most reliable post out there, gravity dropper excluded. Hopefully they'll carry that into this post. That said I suspect my money will be going to magura.

Think you're missing the point.

Some examples:

Macbook 256GB silver
US Price
$1299 (excl. tax)
$1558.80 (Adding 20% for VAT) === £1070.75
UK Price: £1049 (incl. VAT)

So roughly the same price, £30 difference.

RS Reverb 125mm
$400 in US (excl. tax)
$480 in US (Adding 20% for VAT) === £329.73
UK Price: £295 (incl. VAT)

Again, only £25 difference.

Yet Fox are pricing this at...
$314 (excl. tax)
$376.80 (Adding 20% for VAT) === £258.84 (incl. VAT).
UK Price: £339

So that's a whopping £80 difference!

All a bit redundant and quaint though, isn't it? CRC/Wiggle/German/French mail order houses will be grey importing and selling for a fraction of the rrp, won't they? Remember the original rrp for Reverbs? 250 quid or thereabouts? Mine cost 150 quid retail packed with bleed kit, enduro collar and warranty.

RRPs are increasingly meaningless, the multi layered distribution model increasingly archaic: even Shimano, Trek etc have realised and are trying to move with the times.

£300 for a dropper post that doesn't break every 6 months? Bargain in my eyes!!

Completely fed up of my Reverbs, the Stealth one is on it's 2nd incarnation in 18 months (with the second poorly) and the external one on the other bike is on it's 3rd incarnation within 16 months and the current one has a fair amount of rotational play they refused to warranty.

If the initial reports on the new Fox one are good I'll have a word with the LBS about getting two and selling the Reverbs on.

I searched for the name of this dropper post to come and have a moan. It turns out this didn't appear in the search because in 20 posts of moaning about this price no one has even mentioned the name.

What a rip off. I think it just shows that Fox don't really care about the UK market. I guess they're happy with us Brits all using Reverbs. Which is fine, because they're a great product. I assume better than the Fox.

Mojo are probably one of the best distributors around though, IMO it is worth paying a bit extra on top to know it has gone through the proper channels to get that backup and service, especially for goods that are in a high risk area to need that service as dropper posts are.

Is the price that different to the revised reverb? Last time I looked it didn't look to be getting discounted like the original version.

I'm not complaining about the price just yet. RRPs in the bike market seem to have no correlation to selling prices.

I'm more interested in long term reliability at any rate.

RS Reverb 125mm
$400 in US (excl. tax)
$480 in US (Adding 20% for VAT) === £329.73
UK Price: £295 (incl. VAT)

Again, only £25 difference.

Yet Fox are pricing this at...
$314 (excl. tax)
$376.80 (Adding 20% for VAT) === £258.84 (incl. VAT).
UK Price: £339

Maybe Fox understand that we in the UK are morons. And if something is cheap, we will think it's rubbish. But if it's almost the same price or a bit more than the main competition we'll all staff ourselves over it. See Yeti, Pivot, Ibis.....

2016 reverb is £395 rrp

retro83 - Member

Think you're missing the point.
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Yet Fox are pricing this at...
$314 (excl. tax)
$376.80 (Adding 20% for VAT) === £258.84 (incl. VAT).
UK Price: £339

So that's a whopping £80 difference!

No you are missing one big item that keeps getting mentioned but people seem to miss it - the US price of $314 doesnt include the remote. The UK price of £339 does include the remote. There is also import duty.

I am not saying any dropper post is worth £300+, I don't think they are but if you are going to bitch about pricing then get the comparison right. There may also be sales taxes in the USA depending on state for those buying in the USA which evens things up a bit with our import and VAT additions.

The remote is very shimano'ish with the dimples. Not a surprise but I like it. With the new Fit4 and new shocks my next bike might have to be fully fox. Kashima of course 😉

TBH looking at it, I'm surprised they even bothered to release it now- time to get back to the drawing board and get a competitive 170mm (or class-leading 171mm) dropper out there. It's pretty much a capitulation to Rockshox.

(yes I know lots of people have frames with stupid long seatmasts that can't take a 170mm dropper. But that's not a market I'd target personally. "People buying droppers for badly designed frames, or frames that don't really fit them")

Still, being Fox, they'll just increase the stanchion size and declare that to be better.

Some idiot will buy one.

Are they not warehoused, distributed & warrantied in the US also?
What proportion of the US or UK price does that equate to? Even if UK costs were double US (unlikely) it's going to be the difference between $15 and £20, that's a £10 price difference not the above.
The odd thing with US prices is local sales tax which we don't pay but the septics do and it's not often included in the sticker price. Does anyone know if the US price includes it.

They will most likely be directly shipped to the UK from China rather than make a detour via the US. The rest is Veblen pricing at work.

Enduro mag has given them a really good write up. They reckon they're as good as the 9point 8 fall line one which they see as class leading - also not a cheap option. I've got the race face licensed version of the fall line and it's a great piece of kit, easier to fit and maintain than the reverb by far. AND crucially absolutely no side to side play.

If the fox one turns out to be reliable, I'd pay for it. Would need to be convinced of the benefits of the kashima though.

It says extra remotes are $65 - thereby implying that it already comes with one as standard.

Daffy read the pinkbike review.

and bikeradar. Looks like STW should say remotes are $65 extra.

Wah way wah... Ether you want one and you pay what they're after or you won't.

As others have quiet rightly pointed out, the RRP of probably its biggest rival the Reberb is actually higher, but no one pays that for them.

I'll bet once the initial excitement dies down it will be +/- 5% the cost of the equivalent from RS, Raceface or whoever.

Would need to be convinced of the benefits of the kashima though.

What are you talking about? 😯 It's MOAR KAAAAAAshhhhiiiiiiiiMMMMMAAAAAAAA!!! 😛

Worth the £300 price tag alone..!

As others have quiet rightly pointed out, the RRP of probably its biggest rival the Reberb is actually higher, but no one pays that for them.

I couldn't find the revised reverb for sale for less than 340 last night.

£270 at Winstanleys (£300 for the 170mm version but that's obviously apples and oranges). Though, I'm not sure there's anything about the new Fox that makes a comparison with the old Reverb Stealth's price unfair? And that's £215.

The CEO of Sony was asked why Playstations are more expensive in the UK, he replied because the British will pay that much.

A Reverb is $275 in the USA

New Reverb pricing will come down when it's not as new anymore.

Not so sure about the Fox.

Extra for Kashima is a joke and makes them look like con artists.

I'll care about the pricing when anywhere I like buying from stocks a 27.2mm version.

In the meantime, £55 for a TMARS with all it's sloppiness and temperament will have to do.

andyl - Member

Daffy read the pinkbike review.

and bikeradar. Looks like STW should say remotes are $65 extra.

If that's right, then the pricing is not so far out, we pay only about £40 more, which is still a bit of a piss take, but better than £85 or whatever it was.

Ultimately price comes down to economics.

If Fox/Mojo have priced it too high, it won't sell enough. If they've priced it right, it'll sell out at roughly the rate they can get more into the country. if it's too cheap, they'll sell out before they've a chance to re-stock.

if it's too pricey, they'll cut the cost. if it's just right, they'll keep it as it is. if it's too cheap, they'll increase supply and fewer will be sold at sale prices.

They're a profit seeking company. they set their prices for each market, and will react to the market, just like every other business in the world. just because it's bikes, it doesn't mean they have to act like a non-profit. 'fairness' of how it's priced in other countries doesn't really come in to it.

if you don't like the price, don't buy it - nobody is forcing you too, and the world won't implode if you don't own one. if there are enough people like you, one day, the price might come down.

Mojo are selling them without the lever. The prices on their website are just for the post, then add the lever at £57..

Retro83

If that's right, then the pricing is not so far out, we pay only about £40 more, which is still a bit of a piss take, but better than £85 or whatever it was

I'll repost what I posted on the other page without postage:

US pricing:

Kashima version: $314
Remote: $65
Total: $379

At todays exchange rate: £260.16

+ 4.7% import duty: £272.39

+ 20% VAT: £326.87

UK price you state in your OP for the Kashima version with remote is £339 so that means a difference of £12.13.

Add in an allowance for exchange rate variation and that pricing seems pretty close to me. Where are you getting £40 from?

Feel free to buy one from the USA and then pay an additional handling fee and then if you have a problem pay to send it back to the USA or would you expect Mojo to sort you out? If you escape import charges and VAT and never have a problem then you are laughing but is it worth the risk?

Mojo are buying them wholsale in the USA so yes the import duty will be lower and the VAT they pay will be lower. But they will then have to charge you VAT on the UK price (ie the price they pay + import duty + their profit). They have to make some profit or they wouldnt be able to survive, let alone provide warranty backup.

The price in the USA and in the UK may well be too high but I don't see that they there is anything disproportionate about the pricing that is not due to UK duty and taxation which are unavoidable and not their fault.

Also

In the USA the sales route will probably be:

Fox USA - Retailer - consumer (including local state taxes if applicable)

In the UK it is:

Fox USA - Mojo (via UK import and VAT) - consumer (+ VAT on profit)

OR

Fox US - Mojo (via UK import and VAT) - retailer - consumer (+ VAT on profit)

so buying direct you could expect Mojo to sell to the consumer at the same price the stores buy them for + the VAT on the profit but then it would put them at an unfair advantage over the retail stores they are supplying.

In reality when they hit retail stores they will be getting discounted compared to RRP but Mojo will probably still be keeping them at RRP to maintain consistency against all retail outlets. Some people will happily pay the RRP to buy from Mojo and have direct communication with them in the event of any problems.

All top end droppers are overpriced IMO but this is inline with competitors and hopefully prices will drop after the initial adopters who have to have it pay the full RRP.

Sorry, why should I care about the importer? I'm the end consumer so that's the only price I care about.

Here are the competitor products pricing...

Crank Brothers High Line 125 $350.00 US RRP (with vat = £287.77) £269.99 UK RRP
Thomson Elite 27.2/125 $479.95 US RRP (with vat = £394.61) £349 UK RRP
RS Reverb 125mm $400 US RRP (with vat = £329.73) £295 UK RRP

Sorry, why should I care about the importer?

You don't have to. But it's a bit like complaining that Sainsbury's digestives are 20p more expensive than Tesco, even though they're made in the same factory. Running costs factor into the end consumer price, and as the distributor is different in the UK to the US, then you can expect variation in price.

All that's moot though, as above it appears it's a £12 difference.

retro83 - Member
Sorry, why should I care about the importer? I'm the end consumer so that's the only price I care about.

Here are the competitor products pricing...

Cost, Price and Value are 3 very different things.

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Mojo have stock on pretty much every small part from every Fox product that there has ever been through out the years. The depth and range of stock and spares that they carry is absolutely unbelievable.

Mojo factory tour
Got Kashima... Mojo certainly do!
Its pretty re-assuring as a consumer as there’s no longer any need to worry when the rebound knob gets knocked of your 2009 forks as 99 times out of 100 Mojo will have the spare to get you back on the road again!

Talking with Tom and Ash (from the packing bench whose also in charge of stock control) they said it even amazes them quite how many spares they have in house. You name it we’ve got it!

“It sometimes gets to the point where if somebody wants a fork and we don’t have any in stock on occasions we’ve built entire products from the spares store.”
In the past Fox themselves have contacted Mojo to see if they have stock on small parts that themselves didn't have.

It's like they are the most organised hoarders on the planet!

The same Fox that didn't have damper bladders for 2010 forks in 2013? Resulting in the entire damper needing replaced? Not quite the utopian vision above in my experience

That wasn't mojo though, Fox didn't make them. VERY odd and out of character. Really pissed a lot of people off to be fair.

The pricing in Germany is 448 euros with remote and 369 without

https://www.bike-components.de/en/Fox-Racing-Shox/Transfer-Internal-Factory-150-mm-Sattelstuetze-mit-Remote-Modell-2017-p50980/

So that's about 350 gbp with.

iirc that was cheaper than the revised reverb on release, although usually fox products do not get discounted as much as RS, so I do not see it going down much from there, unless fox really want to get a foothold in the dropper post market.

Easton is 429 euros and Revised reverb 439 euros at that shop.

mikewsmith - Member

You may not care about them but they care about their customers. If you had to send your fork/shock/post to the US for service or warranty would you be happy? If you needed a new lever after a crash and it takes 4-5 days to come from the US via customs you paying over the odds fees for it would you be happy?

Okay so perhaps you can explain how Rockshox, Crank Brothers and Thomson are able to end up with UK RRP which is actually cheaper than the US price?

Crank Brothers High Line 125 $350.00 US RRP (with vat = £287.77) £269.99 UK RRP [b](UK £17.78 cheaper)[/b]
Thomson Elite 27.2/125 $479.95 US RRP (with vat = £394.61) £349 UK RRP [b](UK £45.61 cheaper)[/b]
RS Reverb 125mm $400 US RRP (with vat = £329.73) £295 UK RRP [b](UK £35 cheaper) [/b]

Yet Fox/Mojo are pricing this at £339, where as the US RRP is (£260.16) + VAT (£52.032) = £312.

So ~£30 more expensive here. Better than the £80 first thought, but still over the odds considering the prices I've quoted from the other manufacturers.

Okay so perhaps you can explain how Rockshox, Crank Brothers and Thomson are able to end up with UK RRP which is actually cheaper than the US price?

Crank brothers, RS and thomson are gauging their US customers.

Next.

I do love STW a page and a half of waffle over estimated import and distribution costs when the price of Fox products really boils down to aspiration...

Will the other boys in your golf club know instinctively from the new shininess you lift down from the roof of your company Audi that you made your sales target, [i]managed[/i] the arse out of that company wide software upgrade or just nailed your brown nosing technique?
Will they be a shade envious? If so its money well spent I'm sure...

if they are as long lasting as the 2016 fork that I bought and have only used in dry Australian conditions has turned out to be, it'll be an excellent waste of money.

We have found totally the opposite in our Scotch slop