Not good for the staff, especially at this time of year. Lets hope they find something else ASAP.
I would have thought their sales would have dropped since the bad news so the loss of staff is inevitable
It's bad news for the staff affected and I hope they find acceptable alternative employment soon.
I think the job losses are a reflection of the administrators attempting to increase efficiency; if that's right, they're doing what they're supposed to by taking steps to ensure the company can continue trading and avoid being liquidated.
FYI... I ordered a dropper post yesterday, despatch note received today... so, they're still processing orders seemingly...
Wiggle are still processing returns, well they were a few days ago. I returned a pair of Sidi road shoes as I bought two pairs as I was unsure of the sizing. Returned one pair last week and the my credit card was refunded a couple of days ago.
Ordered a new front tyre, a chain and some mucoff on Friday. Arrived Monday. If anything rhey seem quicker than usual. Fingers crossed they’ll refinance and be ok.
I have a question, totally open and unbiased. I just want to understand what people outside the industry think.
lots of people are saying they hope they will survive, but outside of jobs etc and focusing on just the brand/retailer why?
are you nostalgic for the name’s history?
do you hope for continuing low prices?
do you like the own brands?
the service?
other reason?
the second question is if they increase their prices 20-40% would you still buy from them?
Neil SuperstarComponents
Sucks for the people being made redundant. Worst possible time of year for that to happen. I hope they all find something else soon.
lots of people are saying they hope they will survive, but outside of jobs etc and focusing on just the brand/retailer why?
Pricing and accessibility for me. They have (ignoring the new website for a moment) a one-stop shop for just about anything and everything you need, jackets, helmets, parts, spares, shoes, gloves, bikes, etc etc... All in one place, just click, done. Not many of the other retailers have such an easy way of shopping for just about anything.
Like most people i'm price driven, that does without saying. But there's a couple of 'favourite' retailers who i'll use even if the price is a couple of quid more. Biketart and CRC being those two. If a cassette is on a website for £90 and CRC have it for £94, i'd generally pay the £94 so i know it's coming, know it'll be in stock (if it says it is) and know it'll arrive 3 days later.
For me I'd pretty much moved away from CRC/wiggle due to the poor website and no longer being much cheaper than other sites. I think most people are creatures of habit, so once they have used a site several times and everything has been good they tend to go back. As long as the prices are competitive its less hassle ordering lots of bits from one site. When I had very little money I would buy whatever was cheapest from whomever, that was in the days most places did free postage. Now postage often can erase any saving from shopping around, plus I have less time to sit browsing loads of sites.
Anyway I've largely stopped buying bike stuff, other than consumables due to the massive price hikes. Yes I know everything has got more expensive, but the prices we are expected to pay now are ridiculous. I stick with my old top end kit until it wears out.
Just ordered a Mythique VRX for jnr, £1450 bloody hell. Paid direct on CC so hopefully it arrives but if not hey I'm protected.
lots of people are saying they hope they will survive, but outside of jobs etc and focusing on just the brand/retailer why?
Ignoring the current state of the website - it's always been the selection, availability and service for me. Price also factors in, but it's been a long time since I can remember buying something off them based on them punting it out super cheap. Basically a biking Amazon (as mentioned elsewhere in the thread)
I'd hope they can remain as an active business, but mainly for the staff...I don't use it that often these days, so if it was gone I wouldn't have too much of an issue finding somewhere else (as I already do), but like every business they employ people and it is that employment that I'd really like to see saved. Obviously not quite working like that just now as a few redundancies are already announced, but it is for the staff being employed and working more than anything else for me.
I've had great prices from them over the years, but I can find them better (or quicker and more reliable delivery, etc.) elsewhere so I'm not as tied to them as others.
it’s always been the selection, availability and service for me. Price also factors in, but it’s been a long time since I can remember buying something off them based on them punting it out super cheap.
Pretty much what I was gonna say.
I have been filling my drawers (ooer missus) with very cheap spares in their recent fire sales, but I'd continue to shop with them if they returned to "about the going rate".
If Mike Ashley took over, I don't honestly know.
and focusing on just the brand/retailer why?
Just the brand/retailer? These days not sure that I'd be bothered, I suspect a lot of it is supply chain issues over the last few years but the days of their being a one stop shop are gone and that really was their USP.
If they stopped being crc and became Bob's bike bits overnight but in the same place with the same staff I'd not be in any way disappointed.
Just to confirm a successful return here. Arrived on Monday. Refunded yesterday. Oddly no confirmation via email.
lots of people are saying they hope they will survive, but outside of jobs etc and focusing on just the brand/retailer why?
are you nostalgic for the name’s history?
do you hope for continuing low prices?
do you like the own brands?
the service?
other reason?
Ignoring the current state of the website – it’s always been the selection, availability and service for me. Price also factors in, but it’s been a long time since I can remember buying something off them based on them punting it out super cheap. Basically a biking Amazon (as mentioned elsewhere in the thread)
^ @mashr's summed up my reasons too. The range has been great, nothing boils my wee more than a website saying 'in stock' then cancelling your order as they don't actually have the availability, and service: next day with Wiggle+ is very useful at times.
I also like their own brands: I've got a huge amount of DHB and NP clothing as it's a sensible price point vs quality/performance. Same for NP components: bars, stems, seatclamps, pedals, etc, on my bikes. And their Lifeline-branded generic stuff (tools, general stuff like tubeless valves etc) is good value and just works.
mashr
Ignoring the current state of the website – it’s always been the selection, availability and service for me.
That's gone out the window over the last few years though, outside of some core brands like Shimano/SRAM (where they are generally uncompetitive for price), they really don't stock most of the big brands. Even before the recent trouble, a quick trawl through their "brands" section shows that a huge proportion of their brands with no actual items on sale
Customer service was always really good, but now that they charge for returns, I'm less inclined to use them.
They're useful for the odd bargain nowadays, but not much else.
other reason?
They've basically been the baseline when online shopping for bike stuff.
Sure, you might get a cheaper price elsewhere, and they may not have the size/colour/spec you want in stock, but their website(s) are nearly always my starting point when setting out to buy something. Comprehensive range (in theory), easy-to-navigate site (in the past), agreeable pricing (in the main) have been the keys to that.
When they introduced next day delivery for £10 a year - basically free for people who ride a lot and have lots of bikes to keep on top of - that was a done deal.
I like wiggle they are the most useful shop online that I go to - huge selection of products and brands - lots of stock (physical too not just showing stock)
the new website is a bit naff but I still like wiggle and the next day delivery service has saved my bacon numerous times from not being able to ride for 14.99 a year i have had that repaid 10 times over easily for next day delivery
also like the home brand stuff like lifeline and nukeproof clothing
Plus as I said above they are one of the few places online that have pretty much everything you can think of if you need it quickly
id be very sad see them go obviously for staff but from a personal point of view too
And to confirm a successful order: placed yesterday at lunchtime, just arrived (bawhair under 24hrs) courtesy of Evri via Wiggle+.
I have used Wiggle for years as prices are good (made even better with platinum discount) and delivery has always been within a few days when using the free postage option.
If Ashley takes over I won't use them as I don't purchase stuff from companies where I know the owners are such massive ****ers, i.e. would never buy a Tesla, would never drink in Weatherspoons.
Yes, the current owners may also be massive ****ers but that is not so clearly apparent as teh examples above.
Ok so it’s basically price, with a tiny bit of the rest. So if prices go up they won’t get your business.
quite a bit of owner hate going on it seems. Seems a bit ironic that if you don’t know you don’t care?
if all above is true I don’t really see a future for them. Lots of other choices out there. I’ll see what happens, once the administration report comes out we can all see the reality on the inside.
Neil SuperstarComponents
Yes, the current owners may also be massive **** but that is not so clearly apparent
Yeah, that's not because it's less apparent it's just you're not looking.
For all Ashley's failings there are a lot of people in the UK who wouldn't be in work if it weren't for his companies.
Martin might be a prize pillock whose politics you disagree with but I don't think either of them (nor musk for that matter) is sufficiently odious even their bank won't have anything to do with them. https://www.ft.com/stream/26102ab4-b139-45e4-b413-7b3bc7a4ee5f
I'd take Ashley Martin and musk together as preference
I think the own brands are excellent - Brand X, Nukeproof, Vitus, Lifeline, DHB would be a shame if those disappear
Price will always be the driving factor for the majority of consumers and that's no different for me with CRC, though at the moment several things are crazy cheap - NP Horizon Pedals for £35 at the moment - next cheapest retailer Tredz at £80, so they could easily put the price up and still be the cheapest
Slow delivery was also a factor for me - there was definitely a time when you had to order by Monday at the latest if you wanted it for the weekend - back in the golden days of CRC everything just turned up next day - most things take 2-3 days for me now
I've actually spent noticeably more with them this year than last
I have a question, totally open and unbiased. I just want to understand what people outside the industry think.
lots of people are saying they hope they will survive, but outside of jobs etc and focusing on just the brand/retailer why?
are you nostalgic for the name’s history?
do you hope for continuing low prices?
do you like the own brands?
the service?
I own two Vitus (Escarpe 29 CR and a Track bike), I'm not one for brand loyalty but they both happened to be what I wanted when I wanted it.
Service has always been "good" (i.e. fast delivery, although not as fast as they used to be), returns have never been a fuss. They've set the industry bar very high for that sort of thing.
Prices? If I'm buying one item I'm probably going to search google for it, if I need 2+ items I'd probably go to wherever had the big one cheapest and buy it all from there to save postage unless it was specific things. e.g. I think last time I did a major refresh of my bikes I ordered chains, cassettes, pulleys, cables, housing etc off CRC for convenience (and knowing if they weren't the cheapest for one item then it was probably less than the extra postage of a 2nd order) and then the chainrings of SPA Cyles as they're just the best combination of value and longevity for roadie chainrings.
I've used them extensively since there first year of trading
Fantastic range of stock
Great delivery
Good prices
Great customer service
Basically imo there better than everyone else I've ever tried
I will miss them a lot
Name me another company who offers what they have
I would tend to agree with Big-Bud, they have always been good for me since way back when 96 for CRC, that is for both CRC and Wiggle. Hate the web redesign.
I have had decent service elsewhere but not as effortless.
Price and ease for me although after the free postage stopped I used them less and not at all since the website stopped working on my PC.
Be a shame to see them go as I've had some utter bargains from them in the past but there are plenty of other places that offer similar so in a shopping sense it'll not really bother me.
just arrived (bawhair under 24hrs)
You purchased some bawhair....interesting.
Seems a bit ironic that if you don’t know you don’t care?
Is that ironic? I don't have the time or inclination to look into ownership of every product and company I buy from but when the owners are so well known and are also so well known for being massive ****ers then I will avoid.
Anyway, as for your "survey" it is pretty obvious most internet purchases are primarily based on price. i.e. if Wiggle were 100% more expensive than say Sigma or Merlin then I would not expect them to be selling much, would you?
I drive an hour to a not so LBS because the few that are near me have junk stock and/or the staff have a ****ing attitude problem and their workmanship is bang average to sub-par.
I do wish shop owners who offer a poor product and business model to the consumer would stop using CRC as a boogyman to avoid doing the hard yards, if you want business then you need to be worthy of my cash, I owe you nothing but I do owe my household the diligence in how I spend my money.
I hope CRC survives and finds its way back to its former glory.
I have no nostalgia for CRC, not in its current form anyway. When they were a little business in Ballymena then perhaps, but since the merger nah. I do value them though as you could source practically anything*, often at a great price. Service was great, delivery rapid and they knew enough about e-commerce to lure you into dropping something extra into your basket that you probably didn't need. Website was pretty well built as well.
Mainly though they need to survive for their employees. Administrators will pay minimum stat redundancy and in reality the government will pick up that tab. I doubt many people there will qualify for much at all. The jobs market in retail and box shifting is a turbulent place and every one of their employees will be under financial pressure. They chose to work for a sports retailer, not Nestle, the Saudi Prison Service or British Airways.
*"whole" items like mechs, stems, clothing etc. You want a lower pulley inner washer for a 1998 DX mech then forget it, but that's what SJS are for.
I’d expect them to get rid of most or all of the staff if they didn’t think it wasn’t “fat” and redeemable.
In my experience, companies do not get rid of fat - they shrink their cost base and often ‘force’ the remaining staff to work longer, but unpaid to add additional capacity that the company removed through staff losses. Often the more expensive staff in a given role are removed first to reduce expenditure quickly - usually the ones they can least expect to lose.
Otoh, staff are the one commodity most companies can control so it’s the first and hardest squeezed. It’s why wages are slow to increase whilst work load grows rapidly.
Exactly, this. Increase the pressure and consequences on staff before private owners, shareholders etc.
In my experience, companies do not get rid of fat
Aye, there's a reason fat was in inverted commas.
Point being though if they made some redundancies as opposed to everyone it suggests they see a future for the business and at least b some of the employees. As to whether that results in an untenable workload for the remaining staff is a different matter entirely
I have a question, totally open and unbiased. I just want to understand what people outside the industry think. lots of people are saying they hope they will survive, but outside of jobs etc and focusing on just the brand/retailer why?
Local bike shop options suck, from the attitude to the service in my experience. There will be good ones, there will be great ones, I haven't experienced that. This is why Wiggle/CRC and others are important to me. They pretty much always have what I need and can be with me in 24hrs. Any issue I have had with a product has been dealt with to my satisfaction, going as far as just letting me keep some stuff that wasn't right rather than sending it back. Their price isn't always the best so I still shop around, but the service and being there 24/7 online when you need a replacement item quickly, is awesome. However, I am not loyal to their brand, and never will be, it's not that kind of relationship. They don't stock my favorite brand of jacket so I go elsewhere, direct if I can, they don't sell my favorite gloves so I go direct. With these brands it is a different relationship, it's like a nice warm cuddle rather than a business like handshake that would go with a Wiggle transaction. They serve a purpose, and there will be a gap for a while if they go, but someone will fill it.
I think more people are saying it’s a combination of product range, price, ease of use, good own-brand products and decent CS.
You seem to be grinding your own axe here a bit?
+1
Most people said variations on "because it's convenient, most places are about the same prices anyway"
I'm finding it bizzare that you've got such a grudge with another retailer selling products cheaply with decent customer service.
Superstars whole business model (and reputation) before you moved production in-house was selling cheap far eastern manufactured stuff, which in a lot of cases was cheap in both senses of the word, and backed up by really crap customer service. I wouldn't say it's a grudge on my part, that would imply a level of vindictiveness, but it's been over a decade since I bough anything from you with moving parts as I got burnt early on and that reputations stuck even if you have improved things since then.
CRC's reputation was for being able to get stuff to you overnight, at it's best I could order stuff with free postage before I left work on Friday, and it would be on my doormat with the post before I went for a ride on Saturday. They've not been that good for a decade, but the reputation and customer loyalty persists.
Been using Wiggle since they were Butler cycles in Southsea in Portsmouth
Remember when they shut that shop up and moved into a shop at the end of my current road
Then they became Wiggle and moved into a warehouse in the Hilsea area and they still allowed you to go in a collect items for a few years
Then they got so big they moved into various warehouses just outside of Portsmouth and finally moved to the massive warehouse in Bilston near Birmingham but kept office staff here in Portsmouth
Have spent thousands with them over the years and the various owners
Hopefully they wont disapear completely as it would be a shame to see them go and the extra job loses
Placed an order on Thursday evening and it arrived this morning with the free Haribo!
Thisisnotaspoon sums it up very nicely. There are plenty of places to buy bike parts cheap. Not many have the breadth of choice CRC and Wiggle do, making it easier to buy everything in one place. But they also have a great reputation. The look after you, you know the bits will turn up, returns are easy (and they don't argue the toss with you) and they show what's in stock.
Compare it to some other places -
CRC - it's cheap, it's in stock, it'll arrive quicky, returns are easy, customer service is good
Tredz - it's cheap, it may or may not be in stock, it'll arrive eventually, returns are easy, customer service is unknown.
Superstar - it's cheap, it's in stock, it'll arrive quicky, returns are impossible, customer service is dire.
I'd order from CRC every time on that comparison.
Superstar have actively moved away from bike components and have been clearing remaining stocks at bargain prices for a few months so why is Neil continuing to bang on about CRC/Wiggle?
Superstar CS was pretty good when I had a faulty freehub on one of those silly-cheap wheelsets this year TBF.
And I see them as competitive with CRC or whoever on the stuff they do really well, like chainrings and headsets. I go to Superstar first for those.
I've found superstar after sales service to be very decent including returns. Very straightforward.
@frankconway, he's not banging on about them its the subject of the thread. Most of what he has said has been valuable to it. I guess he just asking what & why were people drawn to using them so much and would we all still do if the prices went up. Ive used CRC for years generally because they tend to have all I need in one place at my budget. If it increased in price I would probably still use them for most things just due to ease ordering and know what I'm getting with regards Service/delivery etc. Also used Superstar over the years and after sales has been spot on for me with any issues etc.
I know what the thread subject is.
Neil's posts don't read like those of a bog standard punter; go back through the thread to inform yourself.
For clarity - I have nothing against Superstar; one of my bikes - an ex team race bike - has some of their anodised Ti parts and I have a wheelset for a build.
superstar customer service have been spot on for me too - also I thought they were ditching the wheels but sticking with the rest of the bike related business
and fwiw neil is a small business owner of a bike related business - so his insights have been very interesting to me at least, like a view from an insider - I for one welcome his posts
But what does Uberbike think about it all
20% off everything*
*discount applies to green 107mm bcd chain rings and magura hs33 brake blocks only.
@frankconway. Apologies I didn't mean to imply that you did have anything against Superstar components just seemed odd picking up someone for talking about the subject of the thread, I suppose that's STW for you. I have read the whole thread and agree he doesn't sound like a normal punter but I guess that's because he isn't, being from the industry which CRC etc are in I suppose he has a bit more insight than someone like me, who is basically clueless to how it all works.
I don't know, I remember the days of Superstar being Neil's one man operation, yet you'd get fobbed off from one "department" to the other until being told you'd obviously installed it wrong.
There was a case on here that became a bit of a forum meme of some guys cranks failing mid ride, he "fixed" it by hitting it with a rock to get back to the car, the warranty was rejected because they'd been fitted with the rock which wasn't in the instructions.
There was even a batch of brake pads where seemingly everyone's failed with the material falling off the backing. That's probably happened to me at some point with almost every brand, but there was clearly a flaw in superstars with everyone complaining about it, but again no one could get any refunds or acknowledgement that there was a problem out of Neil.
I've got no particular axe to grind with Neil, and wish him luck in whatever industries he's CNCing for now, and do still use his brake pads, but it's beyond parody for him to say things like:
Lifeline was .................. Generic catalog stuff done on minimal margin.
and
maybe the lure of cheap stuff out of China was too powerful
Shame really
But it's completely irrelevant to this thread, (and every other thread Neil happens to post on) much as some folks seem to wish it were. - not specifically you TINAS.
How about Rapha...
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/rapha-posts-pound12m-loss-marking-six-years-in-the-red
How is Rapha still standing - or is just the usual accountancy nonsense passing moneys to a parent company so it looks like a loss to pay no tax....
I have read the whole thread and agree he doesn’t sound like a normal punter but I guess that’s because he isn’t, being from the industry which CRC etc are in I suppose he has a bit more insight than someone like me, who is basically clueless to how it all works.
To be fair, the comments where he knows what he is talking about (bikes and bike bits) have veen very insightful, it's the bits where he's slagging off competitors based on his own exotic understanding of insolvency and the law that have been unenlightening.
Ralpha must be making a profit - flogging a top that costs £5 to make at £100 is a great business
Re Rapha, firstly, I can't see how they're losing so much, but anyway, if you're losing £15m year after year, wouldn't you call it a day?
Benko is gone from signa then so the rot really is at the top. Fingers crossed that means that splitting off the sports group might give them chance to save some or all of the group.
Ralpha must be making a profit – flogging a top that costs £5 to make at £100 is a great business
Don't know what they are like these days but the last things I bought from them - a winter jersey, a summer jersey, a windproof gilet and a winter lightweight jacket are all still going strong after around 8 years of all year round use so they have yet to get any repeat business from me since I bought them all those years ago.
Bought loads of wheels from SS- returned one with a Pacenti rim that cracked, it was rebuilt onto something else, no quibble.
Small update re: orders - ordered some derailer hangers this week and they arrived Friday. All. Good.
Rapha may have a good margin on sales but they also have ridiculous prime city centre stores with tumbleweed blowing through. Doesn't really seem like a sensible model for such a niche product.
Ordered some derailleur hangers and most of the pivot bolts for my sons vitus. All arrived in a day or so but also, surprisingly, all packaged separately!
I've got frame, forks, wheels and other parts, all now with Parcelforce. 2 separate orders placed this week, coming in 5 separate consignments on Monday
flogging a top that costs £5 to make at £100 is a great business
Which £100 Rapha items cost £5 to make, and who makes them? Would be interested in a piece of that action!
Also, would like to know if all their workers are voluntary, rents free, shipping done by mates as a free favour… etc. Also if they’ve found a cost free way to work around all the Brexit barriers hitting the likes of CRC/Wiggle and everyone in the niche world of cycling that needs a wide geographical customer base.
But when sanity returns I quite fancy making some nice new pedals
Please be a clipless mechanism with a nano body.
It’s much more interesting than joining the race to the Bottom cycle industry at the moment.
Regrettably when the bike industry gets there there will be another industry queuing up to commit hari-kari.
Someone in my family lost their job in the Wiggle / CRC warehouse location in Wolverhampton - not a nice end to 2023 for him....
Neil / Superstar you really seem to be derailing this thread as people pick you up on some contradictions and strange musings (Why not comment as just Neil, repping Superstar is irrelevant surely?) and I cant help do it myself as you say you don't want to join the 'race to the bottom' but then post up pictures of you re-making chainrings whole selling them off for 30% off for less than £25.00 - isn't that joining in by definition?
The reality here is CRC etc wont be the last to fall due to current circumstances and I don't think this is industry specific, a few friends are saying their work is deathly quiet right now, the covid money has ran out now and the warehouse shelves are full of goods.
Going to be a difficult 2024 overall I feel.
This is again de-railing the thread a little but nowhere did I say you were posting as SS to increase sales (Though no other business owner is here commenting in this manner, so it may be having that effect?)
You can post as Neil as much as you like without mentioning SS - you are an individual aside from company owner - so long as you aren't doing so to deliberately plug your own product while criticising others, which you arent this time, all adding 'superstar' to ever reply is doing is to cause people to comment on your business etc
There is a huge difference between business models but you say the industry is in a 'race to the bottom' and then knock 1/3rd of the price from a product (and others) you are currently manufacturing, not old stock to clear, how isn't that joining the 'race to the bottom' and actually becoming a contributing factor in it?
The drive to discount in order to sell is absolutely going to cause some business to fail, perhaps the most bizarre thing is (If this is also relevant to the cycle world) that we have been told lead-times are increasing on production overseas for parts we use at work due to factories reducing staff numbers and hours, so once all this stock is sold off at bargain prices we may end up with brands struggling to re-stock in a reasonable time frame when required = more financial pressure.
I’m posting as Neil SuperstarComponents
I always preferred Fruit, Tango and your other log-ons 😂
christ the bad experience stories with ss are like, what 15 years ago? Time to move on chaps.
my pedals and chainrings have been spot on and still going strong. headset was a bit crappy though...
back to crc....my hanger order has turned up so it seems business as usual despite all the horrible stuff hanging over the staff
You might take umbrage with what Neil says about CRC wiggle, fine, comment by all means about why he’s wrong and what your opinion is or the facts are
We did, it was him that started some nonsense about us ganging up on him, sorry, trolling because he was talking nonsense about administration and his interpretations of it.
He dug it up, others followed.
Well its obviously cathartic for Neil, now he is a success, to come back on here and discuss the industry he was in for so long, obviously glad to be out of, and at the same time troll a bit the forum that gave him so much grief in the past. Interesting anecdotes as well.
Surprising people still rise to it. I am sure he will drift off at some point and I wish him well.
Considering he is so 'out of' the bike industry its interesting to see social media posts showing him making chainrings and stating shimano etc will be coming soon, followed by selling them off at a sub £25.00 price tag, as I say earlier this is also at odds when Neil claims to not want to be part of a race to the bottom, well if that's not being a contributor I don't know what is.
I have zero issues with SS as a company, honestly I see the events of 10 years or so ago as the mistakes of a young person starting out in business and getting things wrong - Neil you seem to be the kind of guy that gets a bit excited and doesn't think things through before posting online and thus sometimes rubbing people up the wrong way / making little sense.
Its drawn this thread well off topic now anyway so a back on topic question - Has CRC, Wiggle & Hotlines gone into administration or is it just Wiggle at the moment as Pinkbike suggest?
No, It doesn’t help he let’s him self be baited but he [alone] doesn’t, everyone, you included who can’t keep on topic and seems to think bashing Neil or SS on threads that have the square root of fa to do with Neil, his businesses or his products need to walk away.
He made a series of false claims about what happened in the past and got called out for them - and he seems to have it in for me in particular and has had several of my posts deleted when I rebut his lies. He did astroturf on here. thats well known
and he seems to have it in for me in particular
I didnt really read it like that, more that you and MiniTeej (iirc) jumped at the chance to have a pop about something that happened with rocks 15 years ago. But if you feel its all about you crack on. The irony is people who have no memory of that seem to have formed their own opinion, so you really didn't need to drag something up from so long ago.
Back on topic, this post on LinkedIn by the guy who helped set up SSU USA is well worth a read I think. Some interesting insight into what went wrong, as well as some wider thoughts about the state of the bike industry.
