Frame internal providing it's tube in tube
Where is "don't really care, it's not a factor in my buying decision", many other aspects of a bike are above the cable routing.
We considered adding that as an option but decided it was a daft thing to include on a poll so we didn't 🙂
as much internal as possible, although i haven't had to do thru headset , i also have never had to change a headset bearing so it's not really a biggy. I just don't want horrible looking flappy cables grabbing excess mud
Not the one that i got with my Orbea Wild. Fully internal via the headset. Not an issue yet but i know its gonna be at some point.
Well this is going well! 🤣
Where's the '1990s top tube guitar string routing' option?
I would absolutely not buy a headset routed bike. It's totally unnecessary maintenance complexity, especially when you still have the big external loops out of the brake levers and shifters.
I was of a mind to buy the sort of primo bike that had internal handlebar and stem routing too, then I'd be rich enough never to do my own maintenance and might think about it.
I'd prefer fully external bar the dropper but would happily buy an internally routed frame if it has tube in tube. I would definitely not buy anything with headset routing, stupid idea, especially on a mountain bike.
Brakes and shifters are tricky when compared to roadie world but as much internal (or wireless) as possible. Surely shouldn't be beyond the capability of a manufacturer to put a shroud down the inside of a suspension fork rather than relying on zip ties.
Internal means nothing to snag on bikepacking bags or passing shrubbery, nothing extra to get covered in mud.
I have set up a through headset cable routed bike.....and it's fine. No slower than any other internally routed set up really. I wouldn't choose it for myself, but it wouldn't be a stopper on a bike decision all other things being equal. Not seen early headset bearing death either despite it being subjected some gritty wet winter races.
And like weeksy said ^ it's all the other things that are far more important.
I don't care, but through the headset is daft. Takes me about a minute to add or swap a spacer round the stem, or maybe five minutes to change a stem. Might matter for roadie pros chasing the last watt of aero gains, not me.
I voted frame-only internal but I'd have liked to say "as long as it doesn't suck". My current bikes? They don't suck and it's fine. But I've had bikes where oh my god did it suck, in at least 3 different ways.
In the end, like pressfits and so many other things how they do it is way more important than what they do but equally people'll often dismiss a perfectly good idea based on terrible execution on the one bike they owned.
Internal (not thru headset) but channelled so you can easily re cable (and without motor out on an e-bike) .
I’d also quite like a split rear gear outer cable so that last ft or so can be easily swapped.
Internal through the frame for me. However my Orbea wild ticked too many other boxes so ended up with headset routing. Which is gash so with a few 3d printed parts I've converted it to external through the front triangle and kept it internal through the swingarm. Why Orbea can't include a couple of blanked off ports on the downtube is beyond me, they still haven't done it on the newest Wild but I see Mondraker have on the new Crafty
Some right weirdos voting based on their (wrong! 😉 ) choice...and I'm including myself in that as well!
I don't care but if you are going to sell a bike with through the headset would you please use a decent headset. It is exceptional cruelty to stick brake hoses through some bearings with a life expectancy shorter than the brake fluid's service interval 🙁
External brakes. Wireless everything else.
Had 2 frames made like that now.
External for brakes. Internal tube in tube for everything else.
Absolutely must be tube in tube *glowers at my rattling Canyon*
External recabeling 5min
Internal cabling did not go well and took me a month to do it after several frustrating hours.
I've got no intention of buying a bike with internal routing again ever. Not quite at the point of selling this bike and buying one with external routing, but getting closer.
It makes absolutely no difference to my 15mph average and was a total pain.
And now I've done it, the right hand shifter is now playing up. It was fine. Now it's not
I've got 2 bikes with internal routing, neither is tube-in-tube, they've both been a doddle to route the cables, I don't understand how cack-handed you'd need to be to struggle? Measure the distance between the ports on the outer, poke it through so the curve points vaguely towards the next port, wiggle a bit until it pops out.
I'd actually say it's easier than the old 'guitar fretboard on the top-tube' setup.
As for a new bike, I don't really care. Not anywhere near as much as magazine reviews seem to anyway. Except on the road bike, the routing on my new bike is just messy. Through the headset is just so much neater, especially with Di2.
I'm holding out for wireless brakes...
GMBN had a video where one of the presenters had cobbled together some wireless brakes. It did actually work amazingly well but it looked a bit Heath Robinson.
He had the good sense to trial them extensively on a test rig before actually riding them.
Edit: here we go
I've got 2 bikes with internal routing, neither is tube-in-tube, they've both been a doddle to route the cables, I don't understand how cack-handed you'd need to be to struggle?
You've been reasonably lucky.
When I worked fixing bikes some were like yours, some were utter horror shows that took significant time with the special tool, magnets etc.
Usually if the cable housing was in place it was fine, but often the customer had removed it then brought it to me to fix...
I'm not overly bothered but if I had to choose I'd probably go external on a steel hard tail, mostly internal on a aluminium full suss or carbon anything. Don't want them routing via the headset but it wouldn't stop me buying a bike.
I've got 2 bikes with internal routing, neither is tube-in-tube, they've both been a doddle to route the cables, I don't understand how cack-handed you'd need to be to struggle?
I have 5 (including my kids' bikes). All a doddle ... apart from one.
A titanium hardtail with ports just about the diameter of brake hose. Even with a magnet tool once you get to the last cable/hose it's a game of ****ing ****ety ****-**** and there's tools being hurled around the shed. There's not even space to pull the hose through with fishing line tied to it.
Don't mind as long as it doesn't go through the headset.
My Highlander has external run neatly tucked away under the top tube which means when it's new bearing time the rear triangle can come off with the brake hose and shifter cable / mech still attached. Haven't had to do anything to it yet though 🙂
The problem i've had with the under top-tube routing is that the dirt/cables destroy the paint work.
I voted external w/internal dropper, though I'm fine with an external dropper that has the cable entry at the collar area.
But it depends. A carbon bike can have internal cables w/o much if any significant impact on strength:weight. A metal frame with internal routes generally has a heavier down tube than it needs due to the wall thickness needed, and whether heavier or not those cable ports are a weak point. Designing for aesthetics over engineering is a slippery slope I'd rather the brand I bought from wasn't on. So - metal frames with external cables every time for me personally. Metal tubes are great, simple effective structures, and tube integrity is important.
Not down the underside of the downtube!
The other advantage of tube in tube is that you far get less cable rattle. I'd have frame routed everything, doubly so if the brake routing was large enough to get the hose hardware through. Triply so if you could get HEL QR brake couplers for MTB.
It took me 4 hours to replace the gear and dropper cables on my Rise.
It takes about 4 minutes to snip the cables ties off and swap the cable on my extranlly routed HT.
I'd go for external routing every time if it was an option.
I get that people prefer the aesthetic of internal routing and it does look cleaner but I don't care how it looks. I want it to be fun to ride and as a bloke who works on his own bikes, easy to work on.
I've actually been looking at stick on cable guides so I can run the gear cable and brake line externally. Routing would get a bit tricky though and I'm not sure sticky guides are sticky enough to keep it in place.
Internal dropper routing makes sense from a functional perspective. If there were more externally actuated posts, I'd happily have a cable running externally but given where the actuator is on most posts, it just makes sense to run the internally.
when it's new bearing time the rear triangle can come off with the brake hose and shifter cable / mech still attached.
This is a very good point.
Working in any way on my bikes with external routing is so much easier than the bikes with internal routing.
My Levo is a particular PITA when it comes to changing the main pivot bearings due to the inner sleeve that the brake and gear cable run through connecting the front to the rear of the bike.
Easy enough to change cable/hose as they slide through the sleeve from bottom to top, but awkward as hell to get the rear triangle off the bike.
Having to bleed a brake when you fit it to an internally routed bike is also an extra step no one needs.
Internal through the frame for me. However my Orbea wild ticked too many other boxes so ended up with headset routing. Which is gash so with a few 3d printed parts I've converted it to external through the front triangle and kept it internal through the swingarm. Why Orbea can't include a couple of blanked off ports on the downtube is beyond me, they still haven't done it on the newest Wild but I see Mondraker have on the new Crafty
More info please. How did you do this?
Shocked that more people have voted for internal than external, and I assume the five of you who voted for headset routing all work for Merida or Orbea?
It would be interesting to see how the results correspond with who builds their own bikes vs. buying complete.
Shocked that more people have voted for internal than external
If internal is done correctly there's no consequence to it, it just goes top to bottom internally and takes minutes to swap a line. It's when it's just lobbed through the frame with nothing and you have to fish it out that it then becomes a pain.
i also have never had to change a headset bearing so it's not really a biggy.
How much off-road riding do you do in winter?
I've bikes with both internal and external routing but none thru the headset (and intend to never have) and the easiest bike to work on is my Cotic Flare Max, external everything except for the last 12" of the dropper cable.
External for me. I don't "mind" dropper cabling that goes in the bottom of the seat tube, but I'd service dropper posts more often if I could just pull them out the frame without having to faff with feeding cables in and out, as its literally only just long enough and it turns into a 3 hand job.
I have one carbon internally routed frame (everything else is steel). Its got proper ducts for all the cables and hoses, but the routing around the BB and the exit from the rear dropout for the mech cable leave very tight bends in the outer and that bike needs way more faffing with gears than any of my others which go years without recabling. This one needs replacing every 6 months or so - the mech spring stops being strong enough to pull the cable tight - a sure sign of gummy cables.
I voted for external except the dropper. Yeah, I have an external dropper on an old bike, but it's always gunking up at the cable entry/ actuator point. Internals go longer without cable maintenance. But the difference between external, tube-in-tube internal, internal loose, and thru-headset routing is just one more step in the task. Nothing insurmountable. Not worth making a fuss about imo. Just do the extra step when needed as it's only minutes and it's done. If it was a massive ballache, then I would still be on a rigid steel externally cabled singlespeed with a square taper bb.
The main problem with any internal (apart from annoyance of rattling) is that if you need to throw on a spare rear brake in a hurry ( which if you race or do a lot of riding away from home is probably something that happens sometimes) you have to faff around with undoing connectors. Hydraulic fluid pissing around. Taping the spare rear brake cable to the outside of the frame which invariably rubs through and eats your frame if its wet and gritty out
At the very least the designs should allow you to swap a brake out without needing to shorten brake cables and install new connectors. But all of the ones i've had or seen don't have big enough holes in frame to get the fasteners through......and really if you even have to bleed a new brake to get it onto the frame in the intended way then its hard to see why it should be considered a good design
Brake hose fully external, always. Everything else is a ... "it depends".
Good point Bill. I was only thinking about the faff/extra steps from a home maintenance point of view. Ie is it a one cup of tea job, or longer.. But if you are swapping anything in a wet, windy field whilst your rider or you are desperate to get back to it, then yeah external. Probably less swapping of parts on xc bikes than dh though.
The main problem with any internal (apart from annoyance of rattling) is that if you need to throw on a spare rear brake in a hurry ( which if you race or do a lot of riding away from home is probably something that happens sometimes)
Yep, had to do this a couple of time on uplift days or Alps holiday.
My Bird Aeris 9 is quite cool in that the blanking plates for the internal routing holes have cable guides on them - so riders can choose internal or external (I went external obvs).
Always been "anything except through the headset", however I'm very interested if anyone has tried these?
got to be internally routed, hoses/cables down the downtube or toptube look a mess.
that said their are differences , my old canyon was a nightmare to internally route, my SC tallboy, its all lagged so took 10 seconds to push the rear brake hose from back to front..
not keen on the headset situation
Not down the underside of the downtube!
I still argue this actually makes the most sense on a hardtail.
The simple logic is that there can't be crud inside the outer cable, if there's no outer cable. I'm not convinced the window in which a full length outer shifts better is actually all that wide. And when it does deteriorate you just swap that last 200mm loop of outer and wipe some cable-magic on the inner.
I have 5 (including my kids' bikes). All a doddle ... apart from one.
A titanium hardtail with ports just about the diameter of brake hose. Even with a magnet tool once you get to the last cable/hose it's a game of *ing *ety *-* and there's tools being hurled around the shed. There's not even space to pull the hose through with fishing line tied to it.
Thanks - that's me triggered!
Worked on one of those 'king things once. The shop guy booked it in as a standard cable swap so got charged £8 per cable. Took me most of the bloody day!
External. Like on my Shand 😍.
Internal is just a total PITA when it comes to doing any repairs.
Want internal dropper.
Don’t mind internal or external gear
Only want external brake.
I've got one bike with an internal dropper cable and I see no benefit over my bikes with external dropper routing. The opposite in fact, since if I want to switch to a normal seatpost if I'm going somewhere with uplift it's dead easy with external routing.
What is the advantage of internal dropper cables?
What is the advantage of internal dropper cables?
It looks neater, generally lower stack height, and most importantly the mechanism is better protected from mud and water.
It looks neater, generally lower stack height, and most importantly the mechanism is better protected from mud and water.
If those are the advantages I'll just take a lever under the seat.
If those are the advantages I'll just take a lever under the seat.
Wish there was more choice of these for the gravel market, and I can see how they'd still be useful for some MTBs.
Internal dropper routing makes a lot of sense for my MTBs though.
External, all except dropper(mainly because they are mostly internal, and getting an external one limits choices.
Brakes should never be internal
Routed the rear hose on the mega, and just needed to grab it using some needle nosed. Damn things slipped nipping off a section of the hose outer.
NOW, im going to have to remove the entire hose length(stupidly cut it exactly to length), and as theres one of those foam tubes inside the frame, buy or find some way of feeding the old hose out, and the new hose connected to it, just so it can fit through the internal foam anti rattle thing.
What an almighty pain in the 4r5e 🤬
Not down the underside of the downtube!
I still argue this actually makes the most sense on a hardtail.
The simple logic is that there can't be crud inside the outer cable, if there's no outer cable. I'm not convinced the window in which a full length outer shifts better is actually all that wide. And when it does deteriorate you just swap that last 200mm loop of outer and wipe some cable-magic on the inner.
Full vs. interrupted outers is perhaps a different poll. I've had both (same routing) & both have been fine.
I just don't get the down the underside of the downtube approach; why put them in harms way on the messiest part of the bike? Stops you heli-taping your down tube too.
On my Swift the cable outer runs straight into my shadow mech. from the seat stay (shadow mechs were meant to reduce cable loop).
On my Trig with the outer running down the down tube & under the chain stay I need to loop it around & above the mech to the cable entry point at the top .
Under the toptube for me please.
I admit I do like the cleaner look of internal routed but nothing beats external for ease - for brakes anyway. I'd argue internal routing with a fully guided channel is easier than external: simply push the outer cable through whereas with external you'll be securing the cable to the frame via clips or zipties.
Non-guided internal routing can be an utter PITA though.
Deviate's solution with external guided under the toptube is great - easy but also complete out of sight. Slightly falls down where it's then internal through the seatstays though...
they've both been a doddle to route the cables, I don't understand how cack-handed you'd need to be to struggle
I wish the only issue was doing the routing.
Internal unguided cables rattle. The rattle less when you put foam on them but the rattle eventually. You can do the zip tie thing to prolong how long it takes for them to rattle. But it will eventually.
I wanted to try different brands of brakes, dammit, now I need to bleed when moving them between bikes.
THen there are the entry and exit port designs. Some are good but some are shocking. The exits on my vitus are great if you use the only diameter cable it was made for, otherwise it's clunky.
They look nice, and that is where the benefits of internal routing ends for me.
I really don’t get this trend for headset cable routing, looks tidy but a ridiculous faff. I’ll take an easily serviceable bike over a pretty one any day. On road bikes shimano routing the gear cables under the tape is a step too far in my opinion. But that ship has sailed.
I ok don’t mind if it’s internal or external as long as it’s done well, you can have your brakes on whichever side you want, they don’t rattle, don’t kink and don't go through the headset.
As the question was specifically about MTBs I am firmly in favour of external (but I'd tolerate a bit of internal up the seat tube for a dropper).
As I do my own spannering and very much value my own time I cannot fathom anyone who would volunteer to disassemble half their bike to change a rear brake through the bastard headset...
Snip a few zip ties, undo a couple of bolts and brake comes off as a 'loom', new one goes on the same way, WTF would anyone want fully internal routing on an MTB?
I was listening to the Nero podcast (very roadie focussed) the other day where they were chatting with their local shop mechanic, he commented that the turnover of bikes through the workshop has gone down and the number of hours increased for various jobs, specifically because of internal (through the headset type) routing. Aero, sleek, pain in the ball sack...
If those are the advantages I'll just take a lever under the seat.
Got one of those on one bike, TBH it's not great from an operability perspective. Other bike has an externally routes cable (to a collar) I only have that because the frame is older and lacks internal routing, most manufacturers of dropper posts seem to be favouring internal, for good or ill it's one area where I'd take it for the sake of broader compatibility, not because it's actually better...
I still don't understand why anyone would want internal anything but if it has to be inside something I'd rather see manufactures putting the cables under some sort of cover, rather than inside the tubing. See the Giant Toughroad where they have the cables in a bolt on, mud guard, downtube protector thing.
I still don't understand why anyone would want internal anything but if it has to be inside something I'd rather see manufactures putting the cables under some sort of cover, rather than inside the tubing. See the Giant Toughroad where they have the cables in a bolt on, mud guard, downtube protector thing.
Just sounds heavy?
Has anyone ever actually damaged roadie / CX style cables under the downtube?
I'm waiting on delivery of one of these and I'll be honest, it's possibly the ugliest cable routing options of all.
The exposed bit just looks a bit messy. Then the full length outer just doesn't offer much benefit on a road bike. It's a minor thing but it's one case where I'd have much rather just had traditional cable stops up on the headtube
Has anyone ever actually damaged roadie / CX style cables under the downtube?
Nope, it was always fine, better yet if/when the rear shifting went a bit icky, it was a 5min job to squirt some silicone oil under the BB, then pay out a bit of slack in the shifter cable move the outer loop at the rear mech so you could put a bit more silicone oil on the cable/inside the outer and sharpen up the shifting for another 100 miles or so. Also much easier to replace the inner and that last loop of outer at the mech (on a road bike with tape over the outer at the bars) than do a full cable replacement every time.
Full length outers are great too in their own way, they do keep the shite out for longer, especially if the environment the bike is used in gets horrible, but when they wear out you do basically need to replace the whole run, putting it inside the frame adds slightly more faff, putting it through a headset? Half Intended to persuade you that leccy shifting is what you want (which TBF it probably is)...
I've still got sectional outers on my road and Gravel bikes, I considered drilling out the stops, but the maintenance advantage and shifting actually outweigh the sealing improvement. Different on my MTBs though, full length outer makes sense there as there's more gritty/dirty water to contend with and no need to re-wrap a bar just to change a cable outer.
It's all swings and roundabouts, and it only really matters to people who work on their own bikes rather than just accept the hourly rates of a professional, but I'll be striving to keep cabling and brake hoses on the outside of my frames for a good long while yet...
I'm longing for the days of no cables anywhere
Under the toptube for me please.
That gets in the way of shouldering your bike and also fitting frame bags. External cables are a PITA for any sort of bikepacking / on-bike storage.
I was listening to the Nero podcast (very roadie focussed) the other day where they were chatting with their local shop mechanic, he commented that the turnover of bikes through the workshop has gone down and the number of hours increased for various jobs, specifically because of internal (through the headset type) routing.
My LBS had similar viewpoints early on (and to be fair, some of the early attempts at internal routing, road and MTB were terrible) but generally, most are now fairly sorted and, because he gets to see a multitude of bikes every day, he's very used to the various routing choices, how different brands have done it and he kind of knows now how long any job should take.
I'm longing for the days of no cables anywhere
Yep! I specifically bought the next model up for my commuter bike to get the wireless shifting. No way did I want to be messing around with trying to internally route a gear cable through an e-bike frame, past the motor and the battery. The only internal thing on it is the rear brake hose and - fingers crossed - that should never need to come out, just needs a re-bleed every year or so. Whatever routing they've used, there's no discernible rattle.
I don't think that any type of routing is going to work for everyone/every bike.
External cables are a PITA for any sort of bikepacking / on-bike storage.
An yet plenty of bikepacking/touring bikes have external routing.
Just a thought (I don't bikepack or tour) but both my bikes have modular, bolt on cable guides. Would it be possible to come up with some sort of combined cable guide with integrated luggage mount/strapping point? I might just be being fanciful.
The opposite in fact, since if I want to switch to a normal seatpost if I'm going somewhere with uplift it's dead easy with external routing.
Why would you want to switch to a normal seat post?
Re: seat posts - loving the cable less AXS where I can actually move the post up and down in the frame without worrying about cable tension screwing things up
I ok don’t mind if it’s internal or external as long as it’s done well, you can have your brakes on whichever side you want, they don’t rattle, don’t kink and don't go through the headset.
I'm massively annoyed with my new Spesh. I like internal routing (not headset), but for some reason they are shipping UK bikes with Euro/US brake set ups. Swap them over (mine came swapped) and the rear brake enters the downtube on the left. It's an abomination. The last Spesh I bought in 2019 wasn't like this. Horrific, but I'm not going through the pain of changing it
Why would you want to switch to a normal seat post?
Because a dropper does nothing when I've got a chairlift to take me to the top of the hill. Also, I'm going faster so the crashes are harder when they happen. I've broken two seatposts over the years (or rather, broken two saddles and made a real mess of the seatpost clamps) and I'd rather knacker a £20 seatpost than a £200 seatpost that serves no purpose.
Also, I'm sure there aren't any places that hang the bike off the back of the cabin by the seatpost any more but doing a day at Fort William and sitting there on the way up the hill wondering just how strong my Crank Brothers Joplin was when in tension means that removing the dropper is just what I do now if the bike is going to spend the day anywhere near a cable car.
External cables are a PITA for any sort of bikepacking / on-bike storage.
What even under the down tube?
I'll accept nothing is ever ideal but even if you're lashing a full frame bag on that can work with under the Down tube routed cables surely?
Lines can go either side of any underside bottle bosses too so you don't lose that option, for me it's the least functionally compromised routing option that keeps a bike more generally maintainable.
Actually thinking about it, in my new roadie-audax bike purchase I've been quite snobby about cable routing, despite generally being a 'don't care'.
Fairlight Strael - I didn't like the cable stops on an expensive bike that at some point I would probably Di2.
Sonder Colibri - As I said, the full length internal routing actually looks messier than cable stops.
Mason Resolution - similar tot he sonder, but neater because the cable entry port is on top of the tube so the run form the bar is shorter and a nicer curve. Possibly the neatest option all round that isn't through the headset.
Brother Stroma - Probably my preferred setup for mechanical shifting (external exposed cables and the brake run between them) although as below, that is the one option that precludes a full frame bag (not really something I'd use on the road anyway).
I went with the Colibri because Alpkit offered a far better value build option and didn't charge for C2W. And if I do go Di2 I can 3D print some cable stops. I'm crossing my fingers it's less messy in reality 😂. Did cable routing influence my decision, yes. Did I end up ignoring my thoughts on the matter as just about everything else was more important, more yes.
What even under the down tube?
There's a minor issue with how you run straps around them.
It's minor though. Full length cables you just cuck the strap under them, exposed cables it also goes under them, there's not enough friction /deflection to affect shifting (unless you have some massively chunky straps or something?) .
I've bikepacked on my CX bike and it worked well, the bake runs on top and slightly to one side of the toptube.
I still think there's just something 'right' about modern road bikes with internal routing. Makes them look like track bikes. And if/when the upper headset fails, chuck a posh one in and that'll probably be the first and last time you ever have to take it apart.
Transition do external rear brake internal everything else. For me this would be the sweet spot!
I admire the ingenuity of that brakeless solution. A true hack.
