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So about a year ago I was lucky enough to blag an extended demo on a plus-wheeled Solaris. Thought it was an absolute hoot on the right trail, but a bit of a handful on the wrong one.
Fast forward to last weekend and I stopped by the Cotic demo day at Calver and tried a 29" wheeled version. And absolutely hated it, which really surprised me. I don't have much 29" experience (I had a crack on an original Solaris maybe 4 years ago?), but it was just a lump. An efficient one - chomped up hill quite nicely and was rapid down, but it was simply a case of point and hang on - I didn't/couldn't "ride" it. Hopping it was just hard work to try and get it off the ground and at no point did I ever feel involved in the process.
I then took a Mk5 BFe out, and that was everything the Solaris wasn't. Maybe not as fast (especially up), but it put an enormous grin on my face. It was fun.
Having looked at the various obvious competitors in the traily 29/650+ market, they're all within a few mm of each other geometry wise (I was sad enough to sketch them out in CAD, and by the time you've corrected for preferred riding position, there's sod all difference between them.
So what am I missing? Is it simply that at 5'10" and 145lb, I'm simply not tall enough/strong enough to make a 29er work for me? Any recommendations of other bikes I should look at? I'm currently running 2 26" bikes - a 22.5lb Soda that's hard work to keep on the ground, but fast as f*** on woodsy singletrack and a Rocket, that despite having 6" travel both ends is still playful. I'm looking for a hardtail that rides similarly to the Rocket (swapping to the Soda takes a good few hours of recalibration before I can ride it properly), that I can do big days in the saddle on, but still ride all the cheeky steep gnarly lines without dying to death.
I'm going to say what i own, purely because in this circumstances it may be the right and cheap answer, eay to find 2nd hand too.
On-one Parkwood.
I'm your height and just a couple of pounds heavier and vastly prefer 29ers. This may just be a riding style / feel thing. Could it be that a 29er needs a good few hours of recalibration before you can ride it properly?
My current bike is a [url= 
]Chromag Surface[/url], which does me very nicely - it's certainly not causing any dying to death on steep and gnarly stuff. 🙂
See here for example.
I have a Solaris and I can see where you're coming from, the BB is a bit high in 29er format, the head angle is more XC than enduro and - most significantly - the long chainstays give it a planted, stable feel.
It suits my needs really well, but you might wanna try something with shorter stays - maybe a Stanton Sherpa, Kona Honzo or that new Kingdom (Vendetta?) ti frame.
I've had a couple of 29ers with 430mm stays and they can be really nippy and playful.
Hi Jon 🙂 same as you I love the solaris in Chubby mode but on 29s it's just not the same bike. I thought it was because I only rode 29s when conditions were rubbish, but it's definitely more than that and I'd agree with your analysis. Okay at everything but doesn't make me giggle like the plus version.
I'd have thought on of those new Pipedreams would-be a good shout. Not sure how well they climb, but they must be an absolute hoot to descend on. Those Chromag's are a good shout as well.
Also running a Surface here - older than dummy’s but lots n lots of fun. I too have a 6” full sus but local trails mean the Surface gets out more
I’m 5’ 8” and have no problem with handling it
What chakaping said ^
Y'see a Sherpa was one of the bikes I compared the Solaris to. 1/2 deg slacker HA & SA, 7mm shorter stays, 2mm higher BB. Sorry but that's sod all. (although somehow that translates into 20mm in the wheelbase).
SC Chameleon. Shorter back end, a little difficult to compare directly as the geometry charts seem to be based on unsagged. Have never got on with SC sizing in the past. (I know they've changed it a bit recently)
Chromag frames don't seem to be being imported at the mo.
Kingdom - hadn't considered that. Quite spendy though!
But all these frames - where can I demo? SC demos pass through 18Bikes periodically which could be handy. The likes of Stanton, Chromag or Kingdom, I'm simply not prepared to commit to spending the best part of £3k on a completely new build without [i]knowing[/i] that what I'm buying is The Right Thing (tm) and that requires a proper off road ride on local trails. Cotic make it very easy, as there's a demo fleet that lives about 8 miles away from me!
Sorry - not interested in an On-One.
I'm on a Zealous Division MK2, great geometry and the shortest back end of any 29er. It's very playful thanks to that, easy to manual and hop. I love it...might be hard to get a demo right enough. I'm 5'10 and weigh 155lbs.
Steel is Real demo on 29th Oct at Forest of Dean. There’s quite a few hardtails there (I believe)
Sorry but that's sod all. (although somehow that translates into 20mm in the wheelbase).
So small changes add up? People keep saying that solaris=sherpa but whenever you look on other threads people who have ridden both say that they are quite different bikes.
Slightly left field - what about a Stooge with a 120mm fork? Apparently it is hilarious fun and rags the arse off most other HTs.
Or a Canfield Nimble 9? Safe to say it looks like a proper yob of a bike.
There's a new Stanton about to be released/announced the Switch9er,not many details but the clues in the name I guess-more aggressive / fun styled 29er -I think I saw the mention of 140/150ish forks and maybe only in Ti to start with.
[url= 
]Switch9er[/url]
Y'see a Sherpa was one of the bikes I compared the Solaris to. 1/2 deg slacker HA & SA, 7mm shorter stays, 2mm higher BB. Sorry but that's sod all. (although somehow that translates into 20mm in the wheelbase).
Stanton have recently been teasing something called - "Switch9er", which would suggest a 29" Switchback, ie. longerer and slackerer than the Sherpa.
EDIT: Beaten by a minute!
Y'see a Sherpa was one of the bikes I compared the Solaris to. 1/2 deg slacker HA & SA, 7mm shorter stays, 2mm higher BB. Sorry but that's sod all.
No need to apologise, The Sherpa might not be right for you. I would say focus on bikes with 430mm or less chainstays if poss.
Plenty around though, so I'm sure you could get a go on someone else's. That won't be so easy with a Kingdom or Chromag obvs.
https://www.reallygoodbikes.co.uk/
Really good bikes, the UK distro for Kingdom are based in Gloucestershire, and if you are serious about wanting a demo..mail them.
I'm offering fully mobile demo facilities for testing Kingdom Bikes and performance components. I'm based in Gloucestershire, so have access to a great amount of riding terrain - Bike Park Wales, Forest of Dean, local spots etc. I can meet you wherever is suitable (within reason, just message me).
I’ve nice ridden a Sherpa but a few of my mates have them and love them. One can from a Cotic Solaris and much perfers rye Sherpa due to it feeling a bit more fun.
Dan and co are really helpful and will let you test ride if you can get to Matlock.
If the Sherpa isn’t your bag, as mentioned there’s the new Switch29er which is due out soon. I’m guessing it’ll be a beast (I’ve had three Switchback’s and they’re bloody good).
@Spooky - well that's a challenging looking beast! I think a mate (now moved to Canada) had an older one for a while - I remember that seattube(?) set up, but not the wonky DT.
I bought an Onza Payoff complete bike on ebay a few months ago. Loving it. Totally different ride to my singlespeed Singular Swift.
New ones are very good value.
Without wishing to sound like a cock, define "playful"...
We're all after different things! What I've found is to a lot of people, playful still means "feels engaging on average singletrack at average speeds" which inevitably means quite conservative geometry and not necessarily suited to someone else's "playful" if they mean "able to keep up with my fast mates on their full sus bikes on steep and techy terrain"...
FWIW been loving my Whyte 29C of late. For most of my riding it's so much fun! But I wouldn't take it to some of the steeper techier places I ride on occasion and expect to keep up with my fast mates on their full sus bikes there if that makes sense...
I don't know how the numbers stack up, but have you looked at the Orange P7 29? Out in shops very soon (next month?).
The 27.5 version is a great bike so hopefully they've got the 29 right too.
Well I have had a 29C in the past and it is faster than the Payoff. However, the Payoff virtually encourages you to manual over stuff and launch off ramps. Never quite felt the same about the 29C. Also feel more confident on the steeper stuff on the Payoff so attempt to ride more things.
I would say that a 29er certainly can be playful...
In fact, even my Scandal in full XC racey mode was a hoot!! Jumps and 'pops' would be great fun! But for a proper 29er hoot, this is my go to..
[img] 
[/img]
Chromag Rootdown (similar Geo to the surface(s) linke to above..)
It's one of the first bikes i'd agree wholehartedly with the reveiwes - it's like a 'big BMX' in teh sense you can whip, pop, and hop and jump off/over roots/stumps/jumps with ease...however it's really capable on the DH's too..
The wheelbase is probably short by uber modern figures, but I ruddy love it!
DrP
On One Parkwood is pretty playful for a big wheeler, doesn't have the car park cred of the other brands you list but it's a good ride. Which reminds me I must sell mine!
Without wishing to sound like a cock, define "playful"...
Exactly. To me fun is going fast and carving long turns, stuff that a 29er excels at in general. Steep, slow, tight, thrutchy tech? No thanks.
Ive got a Trek Stache 29+ and thats playful in the extreme. 5ft11 and 11st4lbs.
Modern 29 geometry is agile and fast. Make sure your riding 51mm offset forks on 29er it makes a big difference from 46mm offset.
Ooh, I hadn't realised Stanton are in Matlock. (guess it makes sense - I've ridden through Stanton In The Peak a good few times!) Might make contact...
Definition of "playful"? Light on its feet. Nimble. Makes you look for trail features to double up over. I want to have to work for my jollies - not just point and shoot. Pure fast? Not necessarily - fine as a byproduct of good riding, but far from the be all and end all.
In the suggest what you own camp....new Santa Cruz chameleon with plus wheels. Light, low top tube, slack enough to handle the steeper stuff but steep enough to be fun at more moderate speeds. Most fun hardtail I've own against a Swarf, 2souls quarterhorse to name a couple of comparatives. Plus wheels help too, coming from someone who loves 29er wheels. They take some of the sting out the rear and just feel more...well...playful.
..and there's more...
Part of my confusion is to how I could enjoy the chubby Solaris so much, but hate the 29 version. Angles will be the same, BB drop will be the same (even if the whole bike is slightly lower). I was genuinely not expecting to enjoy the plus tyres, but had an absolute hoot (in a slightly uncontrolled fashion at times); whereas the 29er, which I was expecting to like after the chubby just felt inert.
I'm basically not sold that plus is an all year, all trail, all weather solution. Tyres seem either fragile or heavy, I completely get the comments from people who hate them in proper mud, and on the "wrong" trail - really rough stuff, they're quite unpredictable when the undamped bounce from the tyre catches you out. I'm based in the Peak, so have lots of rocks to play on, but also a good selection of loamy rooty stuff, which is what the chubbys excel on.
at 5'10" and 145lb,
You must be a proper racing snake , I'm the same height and 40 lb heavier and I'm not exactly fat .
I've got a carbon kona honzo with very short stays and great geometry. Also have a zealous and they are very similar. So either one I would recommend as what you are looking for is what I wanted a few weeks back too.
Part of my confusion is to how I could enjoy the chubby Solaris so much, but hate the 29 version. Angles will be the same, BB drop will be the same (even if the whole bike is slightly lower). I was genuinely not expecting to enjoy the plus tyres, but had an absolute hoot (in a slightly uncontrolled fashion at times); whereas the 29er, which I was expecting to like after the chubby just felt inert.
I tried plus on my Solaris recently and totally agree it's much more fun that way. I put it down to the significantly lower BB giving it more confidence and the mad level of grip from the big tyres.
I'm basically not sold that plus is an all year, all trail, all weather solution.
Yep, I reckon I'll mainly use my plus wheels for mucking about in woods in summer and trail centres that ain't too lumpy (Gisburn was a bit hard going).
@OP
I'm currently running 2 26" bikes - a 22.5lb Soda that's hard work to keep on the ground, but fast as f*** on woodsy singletrack
Light on its feet. Nimble. Makes you look for trail features to double up over. I want to have to work for my jollies - not just point and shoot. Pure fast? Not necessarily - fine as a byproduct of good riding, but far from the be all and end all.
I'm not sure you are going to get more light and nimble than a 22.5lb Soda....
Production privee Shan GT. Gotta say of the few 29ers I've had and riden this is the closest I've found to a great fun bike, I'll almost go and say it, it's the closest to a 26inch feeling bike fun wise I've had in a few years and that
include's a few 27.5 hardtail to. I'm running it at 120mm fork but it will go to 140. Not tryed plus size yet but have gone full fat so it does interest a good bit. Kinda looking at that pipe dream moxie that was on the home page. Few weeks ago looks the dogs dangerlys gotta say.
Production privee Shan GT
Got to say, I have an itch developing that I might have to scratch.
Have the 26" flavour at the moment
[img] 
[/img]
Last Fast Forward or NS Excentric Cromo 29?
Recommend what you have 😀
[url= https://flic.kr/p/ZcYddp ]NS Eccentric Cromo 29"[/url]
Seems playful to me! Definitely fun!
I'll also recommend what I've got as it seems to be the thing to do 😆
[url= https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2656/33107042265_7ee0c8b92c_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2656/33107042265_7ee0c8b92c_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Sryfex ]Eli approves.[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/stu-b/ ]multispeedstu[/url], on Flickr
Just about the slackest and longest production 29er out there.
Oh and so much fun on any kind of trail.
The ShanGT does get me fizzy in my baggies but then I see the press fit bb and integrated headset and the feeling subsides.
Why use steel and then incorporate the 2 most uselessly irritating "standards" out there?
Shackleton. Yeah I've had all three variants of Shan 26.27.5 and 29er. And while I agree about the bottom bracket there one was rubbish!!! if you fit a hope one it is all good and to be fair I've not had any issues regards headset even with there own brand one except my be with the original 26 with the mesh grill but good grease and covering it helped there.
Some interesting options I hadn't really heard of there, thanks.
I'm not sure you are going to get more light and nimble than a 22.5lb Soda....
And therein lies part of the problem. As it happens I've just been for a few laps of Lady Canning on it and back down Blacka. On Cannings it's sublime, but I definitely have to back off the pace coming down rocky stuff, and I don't count the likes of Devils Elbow as especially technical. I can survive rockier stuff, but it's not a lot of fun, and there's no way I'd try riding Golfy style trails on it. I'd be over the bars at the first corner.
The more I think about it, the more I think it's not so much the 26"ness of the bike that's the issue - its things like steep head angle/long stem (70mm ha!) on 7 year old straight steerer 32mm forks and relatively whippy BB (although that pays off in comfort). If I could get a "modern 26 Soda" I'd be pretty happy. But there's no point as forks are already an issue (and my Rebas are dying slowly and horribly), and I can see it won't be long before tyres go the same way. There's places I can see the better rolling abilities of the big wheels being an advantage, but equally, the sheer inertia of waggon wheels means they'll never have the same nimbleness as a 26"
This thread has completely ignored non-plus 650b as I'm not convinced they have a long term future. I've worked on a good few enduro/mini dh races over the past couple of years and 29ers are getting more and more dominant year on year. The last thing I want to do is spend eleventy thousand pounds on an all new bike and find in 5 years time that it's all obsolete.
Definition of "playful"? Light on its feet. Nimble. Makes you look for trail features to double up over. I want to have to work for my jollies - not just point and shoot. Pure fast? Not necessarily - fine as a byproduct of good riding, but far from the be all and end all.
Interesting, as that's exactly what I would describe my Mk2 Solaris as, with 29" wheels.
But then I have a very slack, long & mega low 29er I use for bigger days out, racing DH & enduro on, so it was very important to me (and pointless) not to buy essentially a HT version of what I already have.
It was either a Solaris or Sherpa for me, I bought whichever I found first 🙂
My choices based on numbers and not trying any of them would be
Ns djambo 29er
Santa cruz chameleon
Pace r127+
All plus and 29er
New BFe… 30mm+ rims, 2.6" tyres… GO!
Why 29er?
This thread has completely ignored non-plus 650b as I'm not convinced they have a long term future.
I'll be interested to revisit this in a good few years! My gut feeling is that we'll see competition MTBs being either 584 or 622mm rims (so-called 27.5 and 29) and tyre widths from 2.2 to 2.6 (with the odd skinnier mud XC tyre). If 29 had a clear cut advantage in enduro it would be more obvious by now!
It's a shame 26 died so fast in competition (bar freeride) because it would be easier to get a feel for the real effects of diameter.
Have you thought about putting the Soda parts on a long slack (but not too low) 27.5 frame? Like the new BFe!
The new BFe is a beast. Very impressed with it. I'm stealing one for an extended demo next weekend. But it does come down to this obsolescence thing.
There's very few bits on the Soda that would carry over. Cranks, BB that's about it. Brakes are shot, rear wheel won't convert to 12mm TA without complete new guts, for a heavier bike I'd rather go 11spd with a wider range cassette etc. At that point, I'd rather keep the Soda as the beautiful, light, blindingly fast thing for dusty summer evenings, and build a new bike, "right" rather than mackled up out of unsuitable parts.
Do that.
Oh, I missed about the old 32mm stanchion forks...
I went through a similar thing with my trusty Soul once I got used to my Spitfire - I solved it by building up a Bird Zero AM with near identical parts to the Spitfire. I'd have probably bought the BFe now the geometry's been changed but the Zero AM is great. I like having the same wheels on both, it's very handy being able to swap them entirely or swap tyres back and forth.
Although I've separated them more now - bars are 60mm wider and head angle about 3 degrees slacker (Works -2 headset) on the Spitfire but I still find it very easy to swap between them. I am curious about a 29" version but not curious enough.
Have a look at Sick Bicycles as well - seemed like loads of haters on here but they seem pretty chilled and the bikes do look different
So, OP, what did you get?
I would recommend mine (Parkwood 29er) but there haven't been any frames in stock for months and the rear end could do with a touch more tyre clearance (I think it's the front mech that rubs first though, so 1x would sort that aspect) although I'm doing fine now I've put procore in.
singlespeedstu - Member
I'll also recommend what I've got as it seems to be the thing to do
I'll also recommend what Stu has, it's a brilliant bike.
For your weight and coming from a Soda I'd recommend having a go on a Titus Fireline.
They're a very playful light 29er with short chainstays.
The new BFe is a beast. Very impressed with it. I'm stealing one for an extended demo next weekend.
What did you think of it? I really like the look of it - the only thing against it is what seems like a fairly slack seat angle (I know it's steeper than the old one but my Zero AM is at 74 deg before sag). Any thoughts on the pedalling position, especially when climbing?
I also have a Last Fastforward, and it is a great bike in many, many ways, but unless you insist on testing the limits of grip on [i]every[/i] flat corner, I'd not describe it as playful for pootling.
I'm fine with this because I get my bikes for the good bits, not the transit to the good bits.
I like my Shan GT, as 29ers go it's good fun. I've also had a few rides on my mates Stanton Sherpa and that feels like a big wheeled BMX.
[img] 
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So, OP, what did you get?
Nothing as yet!
What did you think of it? I really like the look of it - the only thing against it is what seems like a fairly slack seat angle (I know it's steeper than the old one but my Zero AM is at 74 deg before sag). Any thoughts on the pedalling position, especially when climbing?
On the whole great fun. Absolute hoot on steep loamy woodsy stuff. Fast but a bit, erm, beefy, over the rocks. Possibly the fastest runs I've done on our local trailcentrey runs.
Uphill it felt a bit stately - very well mannered but rather sluggish. Then I worked out the wheels/tyres were over a kilo heavier than my 26" Rocket wheels. Change that and it'd be fine (I reckon I could build identical spec 27.5 ones for a 250g weight penalty for the pair) I didn't try anything mega tech uphill, but it certainly felt like I was sat in the right place on the bike and wasn't fighting front end lift at any point. Also bear in mind that dropper posts tend to be more inline than old-skool rigid posts, so a hair slacker on the SA is compensated for by the saddle being naturally further forward on the post.
I'm almost certainly going down this route. Just pissed off that Cy has already sold out of the blue mediums!
I've also had a few rides on my mates Stanton Sherpa and that feels like a big wheeled BMX.
I just got off my 20" BMX.
Thanks for the lols. Especially you Bungel.
😆
Bird Zero TR? 650B, light(ish), modern geo.
Also a revised Soul rumoured to be coming along soon in a similar vein to the new Bfe.
I don't think there are that many 'playful' 29ers about yet that aren't more endyooro focused and therefore a bit porky.
I find the extra weight of steel a bit annoying to be honest and am looking at Allloy frames
SC Chameleon or Kona Honzo for me I think
Running a singular at the mo and it is not playful
How about the new Stanton Switch9er,looks like its built for fun :
[img] 
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New Soul rumoured to be out soonish...
I've had a few 29ers that marketing and reviewers describe as 'playful', as per your requirements. Very few have reached and exceed my expectations.
1. Stooge- Lovely bike. Despite being rigid (and fairly heavy), I found it super engaging and it egged you on. With the Mk3 now accepting sus forks, it's almost spot on.
2. Canfiled YelliScreamy Mk1- Had all the right angles and was the first 29er I really got on with. It really showed me that wheel size is just a number and geometry is key. At really fast speeds it could feeling twitchy, but I put this down to Mk1 geometry.
3. Whyte 529- Budget frame, but has all the right angles. It's very competent on the trails, especially when pressing on. It's definitley a grower and isn't fantastic at skate park type rides.
Biggest disappointments?
1. Chumba HX2- just felt wrong and didn't have playful geometry. Really hard work to get it to 'move'.
2. Zealous Division Mk2- Disaster. It was great fun down the skate park and few jumps, but proper trails and singletrack it was awful. I think the wheelbase was too short so it felt scary almost..
I have a SS Titus Fireline and a Payoff geared. Titus is my go to bike, mainly because it's SS and is lovely to ride. I'm 6ft and ride 20". I find it playful and chuckable. I like the payoff also it has similar characteristics but heavier. I used to ride a Kona Unit that was a a great ride. Love the Kona geometry. I imagine a Honzo would fit the bill also. I had an 18" Packwood but found it a little sluggish. May be due to it being an 18".
I had a Solaris Mk2 until recently, and tried both wheelsizes in it, but didn’t really gel with it (for similar reasons to yourself). A friend rode it with plus wheels in there and really liked it - horses for courses I guess. I think I made the mistake of riding a Mk1 Solaris for half a day (which I really liked) and then buying a Mk2 frame, as I thought it would be better.
My wife has just got a Mk1 Sherpa, and as it fits me, I’ve taken for a couple of short rides - just to check the brakes work etc;) The parts on there are the same as the Solaris in 29 format, but I much prefer it to the Solaris - to me it feels like it has the springiness that the Mk2 Solaris seemed to lack. Although the geometry is only slightly different, to me it feels a more confident handling package. My wife has independently come to same conclusion, and she’s definitely more confident on the Stanton (& she rode the Solaris far more than me).
We ride in the Peak a lot (lived 5 mins away from Cannings & Blacka Moor for 20 years), so very familiar with trails you’re riding. I’d strongly recommend contacting the fellas at Stanton, as I’ve heard they’re really helpful - so may be able to fix you up with a demo. If they don’t have a demo bike, drop me a line and I’ll see if my wife would mind letting you have a quick go on her Stanton (new ‘precious bike’ syndrome at the moment though, so can’t guarantee:))
Edit: she managed to bin it in Cannings on Monday, so I’ve got to sort out the bent mech hanger first...Tut!
I just got off my 20" BMX.
Thanks for the lols. Especially you Bungel.
I reckon if I actually went and rode a BMX i'd realise the error in my statement. All I meant was the Sherpa is a playful fun bike. irrespective of wheel size.
I did a review of the Solaris, covering both 29 and 650b wheels and the discrepancy in "playfulnes"...
http://unduro.co.uk/mtb/review-cotic-solaris/
This thread again just highlights just how different we all are... Fun/Playful/(insert marketing word here) bikes might be exactly that to one person, and a dogs dinner to another. I've ridden a LOT of the bikes listed so far on this thread, probably the vast majority to be fair, and there's only a small handful listed that I'd own or consider owning. That's not to say that the others aren't good bikes, but they don't suit my requirements of fun.
The one I've not yet ridden that I really want to is the Last Fastforward. Looks awesome, though I suspect it might be a bit of a bruiser! Looks like it would be fun though.
The NS Eccentric Cromo would interest me too if the stays were just a little longer (430-440mm seems to be the sweetspot), I've tried a few 29ers with 420mm stays and they've all felt too twitchy at speed for my liking.
I've tried the Stooge, totally didn't get it! Felt like an accident waiting to happen to me. Likewise the Canfield Yelli Screamy & Nimble 9's I've tried (both MK1 versions though), all felt short and steep and like they were trying to be a big wheeled BMX... Which is EXACTLY what I don't want!
Had a Kona Taro briefly (ally version of the Honzo). It too felt short and relatively steep, the box section back end made it incredibly unforgiving too! It didn't last long... The Zealous Division also comes into this category, feels fun for a few minutes, but it's crazy stiff and unforgiving to ride.
The Stanton Sherpa has a lovely ride quality to it, but it just doesn't fit me that well. I want the reach of the 19", with the 17" seat tube, and about 15-20mm lower BB height for my own personal preferences. Unlike a lot of newer steel bikes it definitely has that lovely lively ride to it though. The same can't be said about the Cotic Solaris sadly, which feels dead as a doornail! That and I don't know how Cotic measure their geometry, cos I've measured 2 or 3 Solaris' now and the head angle is always steeper than stated by Cotic and the seat angle is always slacker... Go figure!
As for the Shan GT? A beauty no doubt, geometry is close to spot on for me (albeit according to PP I'm a Large not a medium!), price is a little high for what it is but not extortionate, but it's a hefty beast for sure at 2.8kg for the medium frame! The Large I'd need is gonna be nigh on 3kg, when my full sus frame is only 0.5kg heavier... Starts to defeat the object of a HT for me if they're that weighty.
As Cokie pointed out above, the Whyte 529/629's are awesome bits of kit, an underrated "budget" bike for sure. The geometry is spot on, the frame is ally but fits perfectly in the "not too stiff or harsh" bracket, weight is sub 2kg frame only. What's not to like...? Well they don't come frame only, though to be fair, the new 629 is a pretty good spec, just needs a dropper post to make it pretty decent (and the frame has stealth routing).
Not strictly a 29er (though I believe 29x2.3 fit ok front and back), but should be borrowing a new 2018 Whyte 909 for a couple of days either this weekend or next, geometry looks very good (BB height looks crazy low mind!), can't wait to give it a razz!
The NS Eccentric Cromo would interest me too if the stays were just a little longer (430-440mm seems to be the sweetspot), I've tried a few 29ers with 420mm stays and they've all felt too twitchy at speed for my liking.
Scratch that... I’ve just caved in and ordered one! So I guess we’ll find out soon enough what it’s like...
cokie - Member
2. Zealous Division Mk2- Disaster. It was great fun down the skate park and few jumps, but proper trails and singletrack it was awful. I think the wheelbase was too short so it felt scary almost.
How tall are you and what size were you riding? I'm 5'11, ride a large and my experiences are pretty much the exact opposite of what you've described. I raced the bike throughout the SES last year down some pretty nuts trails and battled for the overall, none of which could be done on a bike that's terrifying on singletrack. The bike was extremely stable but also easy to manoeuvre - I'm playful rider who like to hop pretty much everything.
Been eyeing up that NS eccentric on CRC, the only thign that's stopping me is that it's boost (or whatever 148mm is) and my current frame is 135mm x 10 and I cant be arsed/afford to buy new wheels.
That and I don't know how Cotic measure their geometry, cos I've measured 2 or 3 Solaris' now and the head angle is always steeper than stated by Cotic and the seat angle is always slacker... Go figure!
Hi Mark. Hope all is well.
Cotic usually quote (or did on my original Solaris) the HA when sagged (25%) so static should be slacker not steeper! That is how mine has worked out too according to an angle app anyway.
How far out did the ones you measure fall?
Out of interest, why specify a 29er, when you're after "playful"? Im not saying a 29er cant be playful, but to me playful means a combination of agility and grip. Smaller wheels often result in quicker changes of pace and direction and fewer engineering trade offs in terms of frame design for things like wheelbase and chain stay length.
Mboy - have you had a leg over the 2018 905? Thoughts?.
Mboy - have you had a leg over the 2018 905? Thoughts?.
Leg over? Yes... Ridden? Not yet. Hopefully I’ve got a 2018 909 coming my way next weekend for a demo, but I came off my road bike pretty badly last night and I’m battered and bruised somewhat, so hoping I’ll be ok in time to ride it!
@mboyHi Mark. Hope all is well.
Cotic usually quote (or did on my original Solaris) the HA when sagged (25%) so static should be slacker not steeper! That is how mine has worked out too according to an angle app anyway.
How far out did the ones you measure fall?
Cheers mate, bit battered and bruised (see above) but I’ll mend soon enough...
The two I’ve measured myself, with an accurate angle measuring gauge have both been Mk1 Solaris... The one had a 100mm Reba, Static HA 70.5 and static SA 71.5. The other had a 120mm Reba and had static HA 69.5 and static SA 70.5. So as you can imagine, at 20-25% sag, these numbers will be about a degree steeper again. In each case the HA is quite a bit steeper than ideal, and the SA a bit slack too.
Even with the 100mm fork on the BB height was worthy of a step ladder IMO. With the 120 on the static BB height was over 330mm! My Whyte 29C by contrast has a 305mm static BB height.
Out of interest, why specify a 29er, when you're after "playful"?
I think it all goes back to my first post on this topic... Define “playful”... This will be different things to different people!
gwurk - MemberI just got off my 20" BMX.
Cool, I think it's great that a lot of MTB'ers are getting the BMX itch, it's a great way to improve your handling skills.
As most of my trail riding is messing about in local woods etc - I don't find 29ers playful in the slightest - I'm quite frankly sick of them - I've been riding them for 5 years now - I don't feel stable in the air - I don't find they manual easily - which I guess would be my definition of playful - I think 700c is best for gravel/road - Yes they are faster overall which is probably why alot of enduro bikes are going 29er - But for messing about - Trail riding under say 20 miles - stopping and redoing fun parts of trails - getting air etc wagon wheels are not playful IMO - Efficient and practical yes and modern geometry has made them more playful but relatively their still ungainly.
Thanks Mark (mboy) First up, hope you get well soon!
Really interesting. I've had my Solaris at 100mm and 120mm travel. The latter does make the BB height a little more than ideal. Although with 120mm forks the HA is measuring about 68.5.
But in line with what you rightly say:
Define “playful”... This will be different things to different people!
I really enjoy playing around on my KM Ops which is very steep in the HA (although not as much as advertised but I put that down to the Ops running a 100mm travel fork on the complete build rather than the rigid one on the frameset only)
I think it depends on how steep your local woods are. Probably there is an equation linking the steepness of your local woods with the steepness of your head angle, in a negative kind of way.