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Pretty sure we did this at the time of the accident in 2020 but I can't find it....
Insurers have settled the day before it went to court. £4.5m payout. Always nice when they make the claimant wait until the last possible moment.
Doctor paralysed in Inverness bike crash wins £4.5m settlement - BBC News
By coincidence I think it was him I saw out yesterday on his handbike. His post-accident attitude has been an inspiration - 'My life is not over': Inverness doctor shares astonishing story of hope after horrific life changing injury
Not sure if there was a PX Tempest fork recall after this crash...but not sure how confident I'd be on a pair.....
Thanks for the update.
This cropped up on Facebook a few years back. Some one assured me that he wouldn’t get a pay out as he was jumping. This got to the point where they sent a private message saying they knew for a fact he’d been jumping but couldn’t reveal their source. The rumour mill is a terrible thing.
I hope the guy continues to make the most of his life. The money doesn’t get rid of the injury
More details here.
https://road.cc/content/news/doctor-paralysed-after-planet-x-failure-wins-ps45m-payout-313877
Did we all know you are on you own if your gravel bike fails on a 15cm drop?
"Stewarts also highlighted how, during proceedings, the case was defended partly on the basis that an American standard of classification for bikes (ASTM) applied to Dr Gordon's bike. This ASTM categorisation, as applied to gravel bikes by other manufacturers, suggested a model should not be ridden over jumps or drops greater than 15cm."
I know there are hundreds of thousands or millions of carbon forks that haven't failed but as a 17 stone fatty I'll stick to my steel forked tourers and road bike. Logically they are safe but I would have a niggle at the back of my mind.
What is the life expectancy on a carbon fork?
The one on my Whippet goes down 10 steps twice a week and must be 5 years old.
Kind of good news, in that it's been settled.
I would like to know how the forks actually failed, as there is a similar era tempest that has done some rather questionable things.
Assuming a similar fork to/same as Free Ranger, Space Chicken etc. Glad it's resolved as that's a horrific injury. 😞
From the road.cc article, the forks were made by 'Huizhou FlyBike Sports Equipment Co Ltd.'
I think that the Free Ranger is made by Carbonda, which is presumably a different factory.
Kind of good news, in that it's been settled.
I would like to know how the forks actually failed, as there is a similar era tempest that has done some rather questionable things.
During the court proceedings, experts found the carbon fibre forks on Dr Gordon’s bicycle were materially thinner and weaker than two example forks provided by the manufacturer, Huizhou FlyBike Sports Equipment Co Ltd
What is the life expectancy on a carbon fork?
The one on my Whippet goes down 10 steps twice a week and must be 5 years old.
That's only 5,200 cycles, the ISO tests for forks include a fatigue test of 100,000 cycles at a higher load than bumping down steps at a moderate speed. A carbon fork will 'fatigue' to some extent but they seem to either fail relatively early in use because of a significant flaw that's hidden or they're fine and go on for a long time if undamaged.
But .. ISO tests are generally only used to validate the design, they don't really validate 100% of a production run. There are other tests used for QA however if they were used well or more widely we wouldn't see so many carbon forks recalled. Availability bias applies here and some recalls were related to interface issues rather than construction only but I think carbon forks are the most commonly recalled carbon bike part, or bike part full stop? Though relatively rare as a % of items in use, considering the potential outcome I'd say there are too many.
but not sure how confident I'd be on a pair.....
To be fair to PX, unf. you could apply that thinking to the majority of carbon products because the faults are often related to production processes that are common to many, if not most. Think about brands who've recalled forks in recent years, most of them have a good rep generally.
Not sure if there was a PX Tempest fork recall after this crash...but not sure how confident I'd be on a pair.....
Would you think the same for every single component that could cause injury/death for you on your bike, car, bus, train, plane etc etc?
When I lived in Germany I remember once as I was doing in excess of 170mph on my motorbike and thinking, I know the tyres are rated to this speed, but for how long...
FWIW I do have a Planet X gravel bike, a Free Ranger - mine's done nearly 9,000 miles.
Would you think the same for every single component that could cause injury/death for you on your bike, car, bus, train, plane etc etc?
Fair point, but also what's our impression of the number of carbon fork recalls or injury cases per user/mile Vs similar in cars or planes? QA in the automotive or aerospace industry Vs the bike industry ... It could seem fair to ask questions or be wary based on the track record or impression of bike industry carbon. Yes anything can break and everything breaks eventually but forks, bars and stems are arguably the most control-critical parts and carbon has a mode of failure that can be quite different to metal parts which generally show warning signs, which is why owner's manuals highlight regular inspections, whether we do or not. That plus the point about the marketing image of gravel bikes that can 'do anything' which was highlighted in this case. 'Everything is fine until it's not' .. etc.
Would you think the same for every single component that could cause injury/death for you on your bike, car, bus, train, plane etc etc?
Every component - clearly not - life is too short to worry like that. But a component which failed and the insurers for the manufacturer are prepared to pay out £4.5m to stop it going to court......there has to be culpability around errors in the QAQC for an admittance of that magnitude. I get slightly more twitchy about safety critical components with a known and acknowledged issue in the manufacture path.
So using your example above - would your sphincter tighten slightly more at 170mph on a tyre of the right speed rating but a known failure that caused a big payout over a different brand with the same speed rating with no history of payout for failure?
Dr Daniel Gordon was travelling at about 15mph on a grassy slope
It also sounds like he was massively unlucky in how he fell (assuming it's as simple as described). We all have and will continue to fall off our bikes for multiple reasons, usually not component failure, and I don't imagine 15mph on a grassy slope would cause many of us to break out into a risk induced sweat.
99 out of 100 times, he'd have likely walked away from it with a couple of bruises and a tale to tell about shonky PX / far east forks.
and carbon has a mode of failure that can be quite different to metal parts which generally show warning signs,
Both will fail if overloaded.
Both will fail due to production defects.
Both will fail if used long enough.
You could go looking for cracks to try an catch failure early on either. You could even make a case that for that sort of long-term fatigue type failure with a crack, that the crack on a carbon part will be in the paint layer when the structure has lost some integrity and is flexing but before it fully fails. In an aluminum part a crack is a crack.
If there's a difference it's that alloy forks tend to be cheaper and probably more over-built as a result.
I actually (accidentally) did a big chunk of my uni dissertation on carbon failing, we wanted to install something that looked pretty much like a home-built power meter using strain gauges on hockey sticks. What we ended up showing was you could measure the degradation of the sticks as carbon will lose it's stiffness over time as it fails. Which is probably why a few years later when stages, 4iii etc made big promises of power meters for all cranks, then after a few years gave up and restricted it to metal ones that don't lose stiffness over time.
"Would you think the same for every single component that could cause injury/death for you on your bike, car, bus, train, plane etc etc?"
Not every component has the same potential for a sudden catatrophic crash that a carbon fork failure has. I have broken a frame - alu seat-tube cracked going round half the tube. It didn't cause a crash and I rode it slowly home.
I have broken the saddle rails on three saddles. No crashes caused. In one case I had to ride 70 miles to the nearest town with a bike shop on the broken saddle with one rail and the rear supported by a book and other stuff jammed between the rack and the saddle.
A suspension seat-post failed. No crash.
I have also broken a pair of steel forks on a 70s Raleigh roadster but they bent they didn't snap. No complaints as I was doing a 10 feet horizontal 4 ft vertical jump on a bike that wasn't designed for it and I stayed on it.
Apart from the forks all these failures were caused by gradual wear and tear. None happened on fast downhills. A fork is IMO more likely to fail on a fast downhill because if you hit a bump or brake hard the forces involved are obviously bigger than on the flat/uphill.
If a fork snaps downhill it's a lottery.
Not going to lie, as a man who is massively paranoid about carbon components (despite all my road bikes being made pretty much exclusively from it), this story didn't help
So much so that as an owner of a tempest, I actually upgraded to some fox suspension forks.
I did once snap an aluminium seatpost. The jagged edge it left would have done me serious damage had I landed on it the wrong way 😱
AFAIK, Flybike are the OEM manufacturer and carbonda are the direct sales. the FM916 is the whippet frame
https://www.flybike-asia.com/product/175.html
they produce the FM936 for them, as they did for vitus.
https://www.flybike-asia.com/product/177.html
Not sure which OEM model is the gravel bike ,or the forks though.
Reminded me of
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/paralysed-cyclist-sues-suspension-fork-maker
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/bike-forum/pinder-v-fox/
Completely accepting this is a sample of two and complete conjecture but it's possible that fork failure/loss of wheel possibly causes a particular risk greater than a normal OTB. (The front end drops and you're thrown head first into the ground at a much sharper angle? ). it's definitely not something I'd want to test myself.
Both will fail if overloaded.
Both will fail due to production defects.
Both will fail if used long enough.
Of course, but I'd much rather take my chances with a steel fork that's 99% of the way to beginning fatigue failure over a carbon fork that's 99% of the way there.
Having suffered a fork failure i can’t tell you being about what happened as in lost at least 50 minutes. But i assume i was unconscious for some of that time. I think that the rotation over the front wheel doesn’t happen. You just head butt the ground. The dent was in the front of my helmet.
The ce standards for climbing gear includes batch testing so only 3 in a 1000 will fail below that rated strength. But the gear is cheaper and the tests quick and simple
ampthill...what happened and what forks?
AFAIK, Flybike are the OEM manufacturer and carbonda are the direct sales. the FM916 is the whippet frame
Interesting, thanks.
Mate of mine had carbon fork failure with pretty catastrophic result. They got a pre court settlement too, expert witnesses on both sides as it was found to be a manufacturing defect and said person was just using the bike for its designed purpose.
Payout was substantial but event was life changing and said person is pretty much in constant pain still, but lucky to be still living.
Sorry can't say any more for legal reasons, different manufacturer though.
Mate of mine had carbon fork failure with pretty catastrophic result. They got a pre court settlement too, expert witnesses on both sides as it was found to be a manufacturing defect and said person was just using the bike for its designed purpose.
Payout was substantial but event was life changing and said person is pretty much in constant pain still, but lucky to be still living.
Sorry can't say any more for legal reasons, different manufacturer though.
Looks like I'll have to change my Tempest fork then. I only ride my Tempest on the road.
ampthill...what happened and what forks?
In about 1991 i bought a Overbury’s Pioneer. They were really the thing at the time. Fillet brazed in the uk. But on mine they didn’t fit the internal reinforcement sleeve inside the steerer where it met the crown. My mate had the same bike and it was fitted to his. So the forks failed where the fork entered the crown. No long term damage other maybe a touch of neck mobility
AFAIK, Flybike are the OEM manufacturer and carbonda are the direct sales. the FM916 is the whippet frame
Does anyone else read their name as Carbonara?
Yes. I only now realised it isn't
Should one what to purchase a replacement fork for a Tempest, what would be the go to. Mine has done around 12000 miles but I'd like a fork with the anycage mounts. Anyone know the fork dimensions. Planet X have no details on the website.
Bike insights seems to have the geometry of the Tempest fork, 395mm a-c and 45mm rake, double check those if you can though as anyone can add bike geo to bike insights.
£4.5m isn't really a huge amount of money considering the injury and impact on the rest of the person's life.
Anyone remember the Niner fork that snapped around 15 years ago and got plastered all over the internet? When Niner was still the only company doing a carbon bladed mtb fork for. I had one at the time and the sturdy feel actually made me more concerned about some flimsy steel forks I was was riding at that time than carbon. Dunno if the pictures are still around but I was a little surprised the inside looked like a rats nest where a plastic bag has been shredded. At least that's how I remember it.
AFAIK, Flybike are the OEM manufacturer and carbonda are the direct sales. the FM916 is the whippet frame
https://www.flybike-asia.com/product/175.html
they produce the FM936 for them, as they did for vitus.
https://www.flybike-asia.com/product/177.html
Not sure which OEM model is the gravel bike ,or the forks though.
Having had a couple of vitus branded fm936s develop substantial cracks after less than 1500 miles I certainly wouldn't trust a fork made by them!
Having had a couple of vitus branded fm936s develop substantial cracks after less than 1500 miles I certainly wouldn't trust a fork made by them!
There have been a few reports on the chinertown forum of fm936 rear triangle failures. Carbonda have always replaced them without much hassle, and have beefed up the design so even the 'lightweight' version (they had a lw and std version) has put on a few grams.
I think the reasons given at the time was to allow compatibility with their new 120mm linkage upgrade.
The latest was one of the new UDH ones so nominally strong but still showing cracks in four places after not a lot of use. It may be in their death throws wiggle told them to ditch the quality, but it makes me wary of anything I know they are OEM for!
Anyway, back on topic, I'm interested how the insurer was on the hook given they didn't have a relationship with the poor chap whose fork collapsed. I.e. what is the legal/contractual basis.
Anyway, back on topic, I'm interested how the insurer was on the hook given they didn't have a relationship with the poor chap whose fork collapsed. I.e. what is the legal/contractual basis.
I'm assuming the injured guy sued Planet X and it is their public liability insurers who paid out.
Planet X as the supplier are the contractual connection.
I have a Free Ranger so likely a different fork from the same manufacturer, it seems. Would be interested to know whether this defect was a QA fail that could be easily spotted by someone taking a good look at the steerer (e.g. really uneven steerer tube wall thickness) or more of a design flaw. Presumably if it were the latter then there would have been many failures... so we shouldn't worry.
On the other hand, if this is an excuse to buy a new bike...!
and it is their public liability insurers who paid out.
Likely to be a products liability cover rather than public liability. Whatever, I'm glad it seems to have had enough cover to be able to pay the claim, as a lot of these policies seem to have £2m limits.
Would be interested to know whether this defect was a QA fail that could be easily spotted by someone taking a good look at the steerer (e.g. really uneven steerer tube wall thickness) or more of a design flaw. Presumably if it were the latter then there would have been many failures... so we shouldn't worry.
I don't know about this case but carbon flaws are often internal, not visible unless you have ultrasound or x-ray. A part can look fine yet have internal flaws that can grow to failure point. That's different to fatigue in a steel or Alu fork that would normally crack from the outside edge and be visible for some time before it fails completely.
Tap tests can hint at carbon problems but it's best left to someone who knows what they're doing.
One problem with looking at failed carbon forks is that the whole area is often a splintered mess, it's hard to know what happened. I suspect some fork failures that are caused by defects are written off as crash or impact failures?
I guess we don't know if the Tempest Flybike fork is the same as the one used on the Freeranger but FYI the 696 is a very popular open mold choice and used on the following:
Active Bikes Wanted Gravel CF1
Aquila CX-G
Berra GRAVA
Boltcutter Peacemaker Gravel
Bombtrack Hook EXT-C
Carbonda CFR696
Cobalt Warhawk
Cyclone CGX
Dabomb Neutron
Derosa Gravel
Dolan GXC Carbon
Eddy Merckx Strasbourg Carbon(Front Triangle)
FARAOLL Gravel Base
Flybike FM696
Forwards GR20
Framed Basswood Carbon
GRIND GR1ST Carbon
Ican AC696
KHS Grit 440
Kross Esker 7.0
Merit Two
Obed Baseline
Obed Borough
Obed Boundary
OnOne Free Ranger
OnOne Free Ranger UDH
Pastel Cycles WHTIF
Peacemaker Gravel & CX
Pearl Gravel
Pearson1860-Off Grid
Pride Bikes JET ROCX
Quick Lancer
Ridley Kanzo C 1.0
Silverback Diablo CF
Tantan 696???
Tifosi Cavazzo
Tiraero GJ01
Tiraero X-Gravel 2
Triaero FM696
Vitus Substance
White GX Interceptor
Ocoee Baseline
Ocoee Boundary
Mmmm, didn't think I'd be seeing this issue again.
Back in the day, ie dinosaurs still roamed the earth, and before mtbing and gravel was invented, those of us who rode in the mountains did so on bike with steel forks.
Most were enthusiasts so were on 'lightweight' fancy lugged Reynolds 531 bikes. It was not unknown for a fork to break at the lower bearing when riding enthusiastically while Rough-Stuffing. It became fashionable to bang an appropriately shaped length of ash up the steerer tube. This was strong enough to allow a more graceful dismount than an OTB if things went pear-shaped.
However I never knew of anyone who had a breakage with the ash stuffed in the steerer tube. If you collect old bikes and see a short plug of wood rammed up the bottom of the steerer, odds on it originally was owned by a antediluvian mtber/graveller/RSFer. 🙂
Perhaps it may be wise to revive this precaution.