2
brant
Free Member
Strike off action has been discontinued – see companies house website.
As is usual, there is no further/supporting information in the public domain.Strike off action was due to them not filing a confirmation statement. That had nothing to do with the administration process.
As mentioned on Page1:
FB-ATB
Full Member
If they’re appointing administrators then there would be a filing about that and no gazette re write off.The gazette looks like its a result of the late filing of the company statement. It should have been done by end of March so they would have had plenty of warning letters and then the “do it by dd/mm/yy or you’ll be struck off” notice has spurred them to action & it was filed on Friday but the gazette was already primed.
looks like the administration has started- once appointed, the administrator has to be approved by the court
Last years accounts look reasonably healthy I must say:
I am not an accountant, but there doesn't seem to have been much debt - £94k paid in interest (admittedly only £10k the year previous), which is small vs any of the other numbers. £1.4m profit, and £3m divis paid to the employee trust, so you would think there's a lot of financial wriggle room.
The one blot is bank loans £2.2m vs £0.75m in 2021 and trade creditors £1.23m vs £0.6m due within one year.
But, ahhh. Another £3.75m due after more than one year, vs £0m 2022.
Total £5.6m due vs £0.75m in 2021. Presumably that has gone wrong. Some of that £5.6m went to fund increased stock holding it seems, but can't help thinking that the £3m to the employee trust seems a mistake in hindsight, although there must have been an accompanied nose dive in turnover in the last year, as there was still seems to have been a pretty healthy cashflow previously.
but can’t help thinking that the £3m to the employee trust seems a mistake in hindsight,
Owners taking money out of a company and making it unstable... You shouldn't be able to take up a management position in any company until you've read the goose that laid the golden egg story and been able to explain its meaning.
Owners taking money out of a company and making it unstable… You shouldn’t be able to take up a management position in any company until you’ve read the goose that laid the golden egg story and been able to explain its meaning.
Speculation as to their motivations but ...........
Slightly different in that there's they employees trust involved. It seems slightly less unreasonable to say that the people on the shop floor who'd worked all through the pandemic deserved a bonus. There's also the inflation crisis. A fair number of staff in the warehouse will be on low wages. Employee turnover might mean they miss out. All of which when taken as a whole I think fairly justify paying dividends in the year they were earnt.
It's not like a director took £3million to buy a private jet.
And having large amounts of cash in the business accounts tends to encourage takeover bids from rivals. It's one of the reasons companies pay dividends, to get rid of cash from their balance sheet that they're unable to invest back into the company for whatever reason. e.g. you foresee a bit of a downturn and it's not prudent to buy up even more stock. The two big-business examples would be
Amazon, big company in a growth market, - doesn't pay a dividend because it re-invests everything.
Shell, BP, other big engineering companies in mature markets - do pay dividends because if they tried to spend it all on investments it would actually be detrimental both because it would drive up the price of those projects, and drive down the price of the end products.
Really not surprised by this news, but surprised they made it this long, seriously lacking when looking at components on there site, hardly anything of interest and I've always been disappointed when my order arrives, I remember when their postage was about £7 totally offsetting any discount on the part I wanted, I added some rims to the basket once and the postage added at the checkout was more than the rims, sod that.
seriously lacking when looking at components on there site
Fighting over the components market with wiggle, crc, merlin, Germany etc wasn't their business model although I have in the past bought a bike for the components, sold the frame, wheels and forks etc and almost got the drive train for free. They have had some amazing deals over the years. Selling good bikes, direct to customer with good kit on at competitive prices was where they excelled. Customer service, not so much but that seemed to be a lot better after the employee buy out. About 8 years ago there seemed to be a new thread every week bashing px/oo. Haven't seen one of those in years!
In fact, I can't remember any since the wrong size London Road seat post or the misaligned rear brake mount where you had to file it down to make it fit. 😂
Hopefully there is a place in the market for these kind of bikes and prices and other companies will pick up the gap in the market.
Oh, and it absolutely cannot be phrased as ‘restarting’. That implies it is a continuation of Oldco and Oldco owes money.
You are confusing the business and the company. The business carries on. The company dies.
Yep, in our case, all that changed was the Company Number at Companies house. The NewCo traded as the OldCo, using the same company name, website, branding etc. We kept the same customers and even the same suppliers (who'd just lost $20m), although the new payment terms were "100% up front and then we might think about starting work on your order". Amazingly, they did carry on making stuff for us! Just business, objective and professional.
surprised they made it this long, seriously lacking when looking at components on there site, hardly anything of interest /blockquote>
Bike company in mostly selling bikes (and their own branded kit) scandal.
I remember when their postage was about £7 totally offsetting any discount on the part I wanted, I added some rims to the basket once and the postage added at the checkout was more than the rims, sod that.
Actually charging what it costs to post something, it'll never catch on, of course something bulky like rims
cost more than the normal jiffy bag rate to post!Just add socks to your order like everyone else if you want to avoid the postage charge.
Anyone tried their down sleeping bags? Under £100 for a 4 season one that weighs 1kg seems a great deal!
a lot of folk seem to be here just for the lolz.
Tinas, pardon me for having an opinion and pointing out a couple of reasons for their demise, pointless defending and arguing their reasoning, they've sunk. I'm not really a fan of garish hideous socks, and the jiffy bag rate to post should never have been 7 quid, that was R2's big box from Germany price.
I have chanced it on a £80 3 season down bag, it’s not arrived yet, hoping it’s decent, planning on a couple of overnight bike packing trips this year. Was planning on using my old blacks synthetic one but it weighs about 2kg.
original message deleted.
confirmation email has arrived.
I've taken the gamble on the 4 season down bag, been needing another for ages (expanding family) and the Alpkit pair of similar bags I bought almost 20 years ago are still doing sterling service. Fingers crossed...
(Does anyone else find they need a far warmer sleeping bag than the temp ratings to be comfy at night? When I'm awake I rarely get cold, when I'm asleep I freeze!)
What are you wearing in the bag?
What is the rating of your sleeping mat?
Do you eat before sleep?
(Does anyone else find they need a far warmer sleeping bag than the temp ratings to be comfy at night? When I’m awake I rarely get cold, when I’m asleep I freeze!)
Varies massively by person. I find I can get a decent nights sleep in a tent a few degrees below the "limit" temperature, but might wake up cold in a bivi. Others struggle at the comfort rating. One friend I swear could use a summer bag in a frost. Only way to know is to go out a few times and note the bags rating and how cold it got, generally I've found it's consistent between bags/ratings at least, a 10C limit bag on an 8C night feels like a 0C limit bag on a -2 night.
One of the reasons for Plant-X struggling could be the rise of other direct-to-consumer and "in-house" brands. I'm thinking th likes of Vitus, Canyon(?) etc offering similarly good value offerings, on essentially the same business model thus eroding the USP of On-One/Planet-X.
This combined with the upper end of the market moving to e-bikes, probably contributed to a demise in their sales. When you add in cost/inflation/supply chain issues then it must be a pretty tough world in retail...
Also, the ever shifting industry "standards" mean that frames themselves become obsolete more quickly, so continual re-design is required, just to keep up with the current headset/BB/Axle/hub/chainline/cable routing/mech hanger/wheel/tyre width "standard". Bikes and frames only have a very short potential lifespan, with built-in obslescence and potentially being out-of date by the time they launch, which for small company targetting a specialist market must be challenging.
I placed an order for a helmet and glasses on Monday that arrived inside 48 hours. However I had a bit of “faff” with a second order from last night. The credit card verification came via my rarely used Hotmail rather than SMS to my phone. In trying to get to my Hotmail I got dumped out of the PX website. Tried again and failed again. This was late last night, and I was getting pissed off so I abandoned it.
This morning I had a lengthy call from my credit card fraud dept checking that all of the failed transactions were not suspicious. They had frozen my card after the first attempt. The credit card company then said that they would terminate later attempts and I should wait a few minutes before the card was unlocked. This I did, and re-ordered the stuff without any bother.
A confirmation email arrived… as did another one for all of the kit that I bought last night!
So, I had to then deal with PX to try and cancel the original order. I girded myself up for a load off faff and bollocks, especially when I found out that they didn’t have a phone line so it would have to be done via WhatsApp.
Well, to PX’s credit it was all sorted in minutes. Funds from last night returned. Original order cancelled. New order confirmed.
I really hope that they don’t go under. Buying stuff isn’t as straight forward as it could be, but the kit is usually spot on.
Rode in this morning wearing PX socks, jersey, glasses and the helmet that arrived yesterday. Ordered another helmet for my lad as the fit of mine works for him.
On reflection I should have bought a road helmet too.
My bibs (x2) and lid arrived promptly. Just hope they keep afloat. Bibs are excellent - will be used this weekend, and the lid. Now have 4 PX lids, 1 XC, 1 road and 2 Enduro !
Ahhhh, **** it. Just ordered a road helmet.
You can see how much PX we’re affected by Brexit. Couple that with Vitus, Genesis and Ribble all starting to do similar things but with less reputational baggage alongside the period where there was no C2W for PX, all led to a decreasing market share in which their primary attractor now MUST be price. When parts became scarce, this must have further limited their ability to compete on price meaning either a further reduction in market share or a need to buy in greater bulk to get better savings. Death by a thousand cuts.
I really hope they stay. I’ve had great bikes and service from PX.
The road.cc article suggests there have been 13 recent redundancies. How many employees were there and how exactly does that work in an employee-owned company.
"What are you wearing in the bag?
What is the rating of your sleeping mat?
Do you eat before sleep?"
Base layer type stuff. Sleeping mats have been thick thermarest-style ones for years. I'm always eating! 😉
Bikes and frames only have a very short potential lifespan, with built-in obslescence and potentially being out-of date by the time they launch
What?
Bikes and frames only have a very short potential lifespan, with built-in obslescence and potentially being out-of date by the time they launch
What?
See 'plus bikes' for an example of where a bike could be out of date by the time you launch it if you were not in the market at the start.
The Turner Enduro bike that came out in 27.5 after years of wait another good example.
See ‘plus bikes’ for an example of where a bike could be out of date by the time you launch it if you were not in the market at the start.
Ah right, you mean 'fashionable' rather than genuine obsolescence or shelf lives.
Not really the same thing is it?
(that said I thought plus bikes were still a thing since fat bikes went out of fashion, shows what I know)
Every expensive 26 inch bike or part ever is a good example tbh.
Today’s news is tomorrow’s fish and chip papers.
Cycle manufacturers marketing to keep us buying new bikes makes sure that ‘obsolescence’ is built in by design.
Yeah, sorry, by frames having a short lifespan I meant as a saleable product in the market. If you launch a frame/bike around one set of standards, but the big players shift the market so the design standards make it look outdated then it'll struggle to sell. Particularly asno one knows how long any particular standard will last. See 20mm axles, boost, super boost, Myriad BB sizes etc. Any of those change then your entire development and stock is worthless, or at least substantially devalued.
^^^
But still not as daft as speccing a press-fit BB into any frame ever, though.
For clarity as it appears people generally don't understand an "employee owned company" is not owned by the employees but owned on the "current employees" behalf by the trust. Its basically run by a board of directors like any company. Once you leave the business you are no longer an employee and no longer part of the trust benefits, you don't leave with shares. In most cases it makes naff all difference to the actually employees but gives a fuzzy feeling to the government and business owners when they sell up as it sounds better than bought by an overseas competitor, offshored and gutted for assets (grumpy mode off).
There may be some incentives/bonuses/ability for employees to have a say but this is exactly the same for a normal company, you may get nothing as an employee of an EOT. Its a variation of a management buyout but not done by the management.
The reason they exist is an easy way for the original owner to sell up tax efficiently. Basically the trust raises money either through loans from banks or usually just by the original owner selling the company to them with an IOU loan. This way the trust doesn't need to find any cash so the transaction can just happen easily and quickly, and the original owner gets payed back over the years from the profits of the company till the loan is settled. In times where getting someone to stump up £10 million in cash right now it is a nice exit plan for owners.
Where people are saying the trust has paid out millions to its employees, it hasn't. I strongly suspect the majority of this is paying back the loan from the sale of the business to the original owner as agreed with them.
obviously Ive not seen the documents of this particular transaction but this is a generalization of how it normally happens.
I hope this is interesting to you all and helps you understand the situation better
Neil (SuperstarComponents)
Thanks Neil.
OK, that's Planet X on my shit list, ironic after me singing the praises of their bikes earlier.
Titus Mutsu, 3.5 years old, discovered a crack leading from the edge of cable port at top of downtube. Clearly manufacturing issue. Won't be warrantied as apparently only two year warranty on Titus titanium frames at time of purchase, although it's now a lifetime warranty which was introduced sometime after I bought mine, apparently.
Who can weld titanium? And is it really worth it? Confidence totally gone in this frame now.
That's a bummer, eh?
I'd never heard of a "Titus Mutsu", but I assume it was one of their many, many titanium frames that all seemed suspiciously similar.
The reason they exist is an easy way for the original owner to sell up tax efficiently.
Why is an employee buyout any more tax efficient for the seller than any other kind of share sale?
gives a fuzzy feeling to the government and business owners when they sell up as it sounds better than bought by an overseas competitor, offshored and gutted for assets (grumpy mode off).
It IS better than selling the company to someone that will offshore it and strip the assets (if any), at least from the perspective of the worker.
If the old owner gets paid by earn-out over time, then that shows they've got confidence in the long term viability of the business - because if it fails, they won't get paid!
That’s a bummer, eh?
I’d never heard of a “Titus Mutsu”, but I assume it was one of their many, many titanium frames that all seemed suspiciously similar.
Yup. Bloody perfect frame for what I used it for too. Other than the Sonder Broken Road (which the Mutsu appeared to be a very close copy of...) I'm not aware of anything better suited for me.
RIP:
Looks awesome, hope you can get it fixed (or just put a sticker over the crack and forget about it).
Why is an employee buyout any more tax efficient for the seller than any other kind of share sale?
Seller pays no CGT or income tax on the disposal (subject to certain criteria etc etc)
Yeah, Ti can be fixed easily enough by the right people and doesn't necessarily cost a fortune. Plenty of people on Retrobike have old ti frames fixed.
Do enigma still do repairs? When I got mine done they were pretty close to turning away anything but their own bikes just because they were so busy.
a11yFull Member
OK, that’s Planet X on my shit list, ironic after me singing the praises of their bikes earlier.Titus Mutsu, 3.5 years old, discovered a crack leading from the edge of cable port at top of downtube. Clearly manufacturing issue. Won’t be warrantied as apparently only two year warranty on Titus titanium frames at time of purchase, although it’s now a lifetime warranty which was introduced sometime after I bought mine, apparently.
Try and check out those "apparently"s, wayback engine or check any docs you have- they have previous for this, that was part of the problem I had- just straight up lying about the warranty period. It might be true here, but check if you can!
What are the tax implications of EOT?
Importantly for many business owners, an EOT creates two tax breaks: Those selling their shares may do so free of capital gains tax. Once a company is owned by an EOT, it can pay annual bonuses to its employees free of income tax.
The attractiveness to a owner disposal is you don't need to actually find someone to buy it and the big one is you pay ZERO tax on the sale.
Note the EOT can issue bonuses tax free to its employees, but it doesnt have to.
There are downsides and if the company goes pop you will lose a big chunk of your sale. Tactically most people will get the company to leverage up and make big profits early on after sale at the detriment of risk, so it can pay out ASAP. If it kills the company once you have your money... Meh Whatevs. (Cynical Mode OFF)
Neil (SuperstarComponents)
@a11y For titanium repair have a chat with Pat @ Limit Fabrications https://limitfabrications.co.uk/ he should be able to help you out...
@superstarcomponents, @superstu - interesting, thank you, I never knew that. that's a big upside for the seller...if the EOT can actually pay the price!
Nothing ever goes wrong when a firm is taken over by private equity.
@a11y that's how sales contracts and warranties work unfortunately. Would have been nice if they'd extended something to you but given they are a low margin business I think your expectations aren't so reasonable.
I'm told ti is not difficult to weld, just requires rare equipment, call around local welders.
But if you do get it repaired, would it not go again, unless you get some reinforcement added?
I'm glad they've been svaed.
I hope they go back to their routes. At the moment all the emails have wireless shifting and the bikes are costing £££.
To me, px and oo are about good solid bikes between £1000 and £2000. I don't think they have the brand name to sell bikes at over £3k despite the gears on them.
They were good at spotting trends early. 29ers, gravel bikes etc and making them accessible to people on a lower budget.
I find their road bikes range overlaps a lot and it just confuses me.
They were good at spotting trends early. 29ers, gravel bikes etc and making them accessible to people on a lower budget...I find their road bikes range overlaps a lot and it just confuses me.
About the third edit for this post, but a lot has changed. However I'm sure we always had a confusing range 🙂
Looks like they already had a large staff reduction as it was 61 in 2021, 68 in 2022 and bought with 33.
Even with a few of them being the owners who have probably gone separate ways, that's still a significant drop.
Baaj Captial seem to have their hands in clothing mainly. Wonder if they will be any good with bike manufacturing, or dwindle that side down.
I hope PX continue and at least the staff that are left have got some good news in the short to medium term - better than going to the wall totally.
20 years is a long time.
https://web.archive.org/web/20030422234832/http://www.on-one.co.uk/
aah, so according to superstar components, Dave sold P-X to the employee trust. For some reason, from the press releases I had the impression that he'd made his money, and was now giving the company to the trust. this impression was given by mention of Dave's admiration for Hugh Facey who signed over his company to his employees.
words, eh.
Or is superstar wrong here, and doing Dave a disservice?
Or is superstar wrong here, and doing Dave a disservice?
Neil clearly said that he had no details of this particular deal. He was just explaining how it can work.
20 years is a long time.
Trust me, I can hold a grudge longer than that 😂
It can still be a very good deal for the staff even if you aren't giving anything away. I now own along with a colleague the company I'd worked for 25 years. The owner didn't want to see 35 years of work and the money in the bank just disappear. We were hit with 100% loss of work in a day and the very last people back to work
When the bounce back loan became available he took all the rest of the money out of the bank and we became the shareholders with a 50,000 loan but absolutely no personal risk. We are slowly buying him out but there is only a general agreement of payment schedules and he's been very flexible.
At the moment it's looking very good and we have a real chance of making a better future for ourselves and we have nothing on the line.
They are still selling hard. REDUCED emails every few days
Wonder how that works. Is it customer roulette - when the receivers pull the guillotine release thats it money lots!?
I’m sad to see them go and hope they survive
I’m sad to see them go and hope they survive
Just in case you missed it above?
Saved!
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/british-bike-company-planet-x-saved-after-sale-to-private-equity-firm/blockquote >
Hope I'm wrong but...can't see the 'rescue' by Winlong/Baaj being anything other than a
short-term fix.
Saved!
For now.
It very much depends on the new owners and their outlook.
I expect a radical streamlining of the various brands and names and possibly pulling out of market segments.
Being taken over by private equity is often bad for the employees. Sure, not losing your job right now is a good thing, but it is often the case that PE will want to sell in 18-24 months so will be utterly brutal. When it happened to me the new owners were complete arseholes and it was very much a case of "you belong to us now".
Let's hope that this can be a constructive resurrection.
20 years is a long time.
And it still made me laugh....
Let’s hope that this can be a constructive resurrection.
Interesting that the new owners are in the garment sector, could they be a previous supplier?
And Will they perhaps view PX through the same lens? i.e. they've bought themselves a readymade collection of cycle clothing brands with some bicycles attached?
Makes sense to me, high mark-ups a few of seasonal/annual sales peaks to ride.
I expect a radical streamlining of the various brands and names and possibly pulling out of market segments.
It needs it. A lot of brands with very little differences. Cut to three brands and give them some identity.
Titus for all titanium bikes.
Planet X or Holdsworth for anything road.
On-One for off-road and WTF is that for bikes.
Had a couple of their bikes and they were great. Mate currently has a Planet X ti gravel bike and loves it. Bought because of price not the brand. He wouldn’t have cared which brand was on it, but would make the overall line up make more sense.
On One is the only one of their brands that has a current following and a connection to its beginnings, the rest are just a shell of their former selves bought up as they went along.
It needs it. A lot of brands with very little differences. Cut to three brands and give them some identity.
Titus for all titanium bikes.
Planet X or Holdsworth for anything road.
On-One for off-road and WTF is that for bikes.
I'd agree they need to cull the brands/bikes but I think I'd go a bit more extreme possibly. Too much choice does not work for them.
On-One: becomes their only MTB brand they cut the range down to two frame one more XC-trail Al the other LLS Gnarr pitched Steel.
PX: Becomes the default Road brand, again like the MTB range go to a one of each approach; one Al and one Carbon, both Disc only (punters just won't want rim braked bikes now).
Gravel/CX is the interesting Niche IMO, it's still a popular niche there's still money to be made there the Subset of cycling hipsters have migrated to, lots of punters are probably going to choose a Gravel bike over a Road bike now. So do they use one of their various existing catalogue of brands for that Niche or just slap a PX logo on it? For my money I'd just put a PX logo on them and only bother with an Aluminium frame for a while at least. They should carry on offering it as a Drop and a Flat bar (hybrid) option though.
I'd like to see them keep their build options sensible too, it doesn't do them much good offering all sorts of misc groupsets (they're flogging Chorus builds at present, Who actually wants to buy Campag on a Planet-X frame?!?).
I reckon they need to do two (maybe three) finish level options max from one brand (SRAM or Shimano) on most models but deliberately keep the range lean.
I'd be interested to see how well 'Cues' actually works out for an OEM like PX, I reckon we're about to see a "practical groupset war" and I'm not sure who's best placed to win...
Framesets can still work for PX, but if they're going to sell built up bikes they need to make the offering lean and focussed, bare Frames are a secondary line and pricing needs to be consistent and make the full builds look like better VFM...
They could probably retain an Urban/fixed/SS/utilitarian type frame, but go very 'Model-T' with selling only one or two colour options Max, one build option only (plus a frameset) and if people really want a logo flog them a (PX/OO/Holdsworth/Titus/whatever) sticker pack.
Ditch the Ti, Stop selling so many brand names, get their COGs down by trying to sell fewer things in more volume.
All my uninformed, Armchair CEO opinion of course...
Edit: And Clothing, They definitely need to flog clothing their seasonal bundles, accessorises like arm and knee warmers, cycling caps, etc just with fewer/less prominent logos... They could do well if their new owners help them them priority/good pricing on clothing supply chains...
So.... as far as i can see in my quick skim of companies house (note this is public information and im not privvy to any other details, im more than happy to be proved wrong on my suspicions and presumptions.)
according to CW article
Baaj Capital - recently setup - dormant company until recently - looks like it does very little from its assets and liabilities being virtually identical - has a company value of just £1500 - "the venture capital company" has funded the purchase of a multi million pound company with presumably millions of pounds of stock (if they are selling stuff on naff all margin as it appears)
Through Winlong Garments Limited - which is owned by the person who owns Baaj - which looks like it does very little from its assets and liabilities being virtually identical - has a company value of just £30! Buys a couple of million in stock and takes on all liabilities of the old company.
Both owned by the person who has multiple personal entries on companies house to try and scupper the links between all the companies. Who has 36 companes/directorships. several in liquidation/dissolved, the rest appear to be mostly dormant companies which do naff all. the only ones i can see of merit are a few managing properties (probably just parking some cash investment) and a clothing importer with minimal turnover/profit/assets.
I don't really get how this works and it just smells of a Tory government style tax dodge. Reminds me of the covid PPE deals where nothing value companies get epic deal income and then run away with the cash after a quick flip. I'm sure there "must" be an innocent reason why a company with nothing can get a loan from another linked company with nothing, to buy a multimillion pound business with no sketchy dodges or tricks....
I don't actually know how an Employee owned company flogging its own company to someone else works. i can only presume it gets put in administration and all the suppliers/HMRC dont get paid as i doubt theres enough to cover the debts. no idea to be honest?
Just putting it out there. ill watch and see what happens!
(my personal bet is they flog all the stock, pay all the investors/directors millions and then nuke the company not paying any tax/VAT etc)
Neil (SuperstarComponents)
Aren't most VC buyouts generally opaque?
The publically visible ones always are, because it's the only thing that stops people getting really furious about it.
Like, you know how Maplin died? Everyone thinks "oh Maplin, out of date, couldn't compete in the modern world, never adapted or changed." But while Maplin was in bad shape, it was actually still profitmaking, except for the loan repayments to its "venture capital" owners Rutland. After Rutland bought the company with borrowed money, they inflicted a loan on Maplin to repay that, at a 15% rate of interest- mostly tax free. And when Maplin did go under, they were a preferred creditor because they weren't claiming as shareholders or owners but as secured lenders. (unsecured creditors got back 1.04% of funds due).
If it is a VC leveraged buy-out where the debt is lumped on PX balance sheet I’d not be optimistic of a good outcome, particularly due to the non-transparent nature of the new owners as Neil ^ indicates.
The business has gone into administration probably because it can’t afford its current liabilities E.g. cash flow, withdrawal of existing loans/credit. To take it on as a going concern, then saddle it with more debt isn’t going to end well.
The debt doesn't worry me or the viability of them continuing. My concern is its being bought by a tangle of companies who appear to have no real money. It gets really annoying when you run a genuine company not engaged in shenanigans which pays shed loads of tax when people are out there publicly and intentionally avoiding it (not that i know for sure that's whats happening but it will be interesting to watch and see)
A company needs money and assets to get a loan, the banks don't just give you a few million quid just for lolz. Venture Capital normally has some capital to spend....
Meh whatever, if it blows up and the government doesn't get its taxes don't complain when they don't fund the NHS.
Neil (SuperstarComponents)
I remember watching a program once about a billionaire who said he couldn't make any money when the economy was doing well and he just waited and saved all his money for a financial crash or when a business went under. He would then come in, buy up businesses and properties cheap, with cash so he could complete quickly. Their loss was his gain.
It will be interesting to see how this one plays out and how px / oo changes with the new owners.
The market always adapts and when a gap is left someone else will find the opportunity.
I give it 6 months - at best.
Northwind
Like, you know how Maplin died?
Similar story to Evans I think. VC seem to be operating as a self governing bank as its more profitable than actually running a business.
Similar story to Evans I think. VC seem to be operating as a self governing bank as its more profitable than actually running a business.
If they do that it is often because they just want a brand or similar that is part of the group/business.
Neil: you, for some unknown reason, are drawing weird and unjustified negative conclusions.
Baaj Capital – recently setup – dormant company until recently – looks like it does very little from its assets and liabilities being virtually identical – has a company value of just £1500
That statement you're reading is from 2021. It's now 2023. It's not unusual to borrow money (from related or arm's length parties) and have a particular company holding a particular asset.
Both owned by the person who has multiple personal entries on companies house to try and scupper the links between all the companies
This is just bullshit. Lazy or inattentive data entry produces multiple entries for the same person, as does automation. I've seen it hundreds of times. You're accusing some guy you don't know if deliberately manipulating Companies House records. Chill out, bro!
I don’t really get how this works
Mmm.
I'm with Neil.
Winlong/Baaj acquisition of PX will go tits up in 6 months.
As of the 19th the administrators where called in.
As of the 19th the administrators where called in.
Again?!
Again?!
No, same administration as two weeks ago but documents now filed at Companies House
I got a letter in the post about it today. Weird as not owed money I’m just an ex customer name on the database
