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Looks like he could have benefited from a crud catcher
He's actually thinking 'That's the last time I ride behind someone who has Picolax in their water bottle'
Looks like he could have benefited from a [s]crud catcher[/s] a few extra pies
Ftfy
If I won the eMTB World Championships AND then chopped off the hand of some poor soul who was just having a drink of RedBull, I wouldn't then pose holding said chopped-off hand in my own hand...
🙂
I think it’s one of Trump’s hands
Got to admit I am struggling with the point of e-mtb racing (probably through my own ignorance admittedly)
What does it bring to the table? Is the racing more exciting because its faster? Is there a skill involved in preserving battery life? Can anyone enlighten me please?
Do you struggle with the point of MotoGP etc?
Awesome - Pidcock fast on anything. I hope he gets to race elite world cup xc at some point and doesn't go full time road too soon.
Looks like his CX experience skating down muddy grass gave him the edge this time.
Surely there must be a weight limit for EBike racing.....
At least he kept his tongue clean!!
Got to admit I am struggling with the point of e-mtb racing (probably through my own ignorance admittedly)
What does it bring to the table? Is the racing more exciting because its faster? Is there a skill involved in preserving battery life? Can anyone enlighten me please?
None electric rider here, but I expect it will evolve the way of a more technical XC course with steep technical ups and downs which can challenge a burly long travel bike (note Lyriks on the front) being ridden without the need to be a weight weenie.
typical ebike rider - putting no effort in whatsoever.....
He's riding something with Lyriks on it, are the courses really that exciting?
Here's the bike - a nice Levo by the looks of it.
Dammit - pic fail. Anyway - a standard Levo, with lyrics and chunky tyres.
Are the bikes de-restricted or do they run regular speed limiters? Because if they do have the limiter on still, they might as well just strap extra weight on their XC bikes. I'm not super fit (above average - can hold 200-250 watts pretty comfortably for extended periods) and when I've ridden e-bikes I'm constantly on the limiter when climbing. A beanpole like Piddock is just going to be riding a 25kg bike by the time he takes two pedal strokes. Completely pointless.
Do you struggle with the point of MotoGP etc?
My point is we already have mountain bike racing that tests a riders strength, endurance and technical skill. What does e-mtb racing do that we don't already have?
Seems to me its a just a marketing exercise to help brands sell more e-bikes.
I really can’t see the point if this unless it’s to sell more bikes.
All the guys get the boost so what’s the point? I suppose it is over earlier.
Seems to me its a just a marketing exercise to help brands sell more e-bikes
You realise you could you replace "ebikes" with tennis rackets, golf clubs, cricket bats, running shoes etc don't you? that's the sole purpose of professional sports.
Regs are 250w max power and assistance up to 25kph. Some riders were chucked out before the race for non-compliant motors.
I really can’t see the point if this unless it’s to sell more bikes.
All the guys get the boost so what’s the point? I suppose it is over earlier.
exactly. would be more interesting if they had courses that the battery would not last on, and the skill and tactical decisions of when and how long to use the boost for would influence the result.
You realise you could you replace “ebikes” with tennis rackets, golf bat’s, running shoes etc don’t you? that’s the sole purpose of professional sports.
Ummmm, no its not.
and when I’ve ridden e-bikes I’m constantly on the limiter when climbing
Maybe you need to find some tougher climbs?
I really can’t see the point if this unless it’s to sell more bikes.
Just like all other racing then.
I really can’t see the point
It's a race. It's what humans like to do. I mean, some people race lawn mowers... and prams. And beds! And well, nothing else quite as stupid as eBikes obviously, but you get my point 😆
Ummmm, no its not
Well for professional sport it is. It's a marketing exercise that's how professional sport exists.
Amateurs can be for the love but professional sports is funded by marketing departments.
It seems like the rainbow stripes would be devalued by this competition*. So at least it went to someone who has already shown he's worthy of them. Those conditions looks thoroughly miserable, though.
Amateurs can be for the love but professional sports is funded by marketing departments.
That's true but that's not why most sport exists. It's a side effect of the fact that people enjoy watching / participating in sport. But this sport in particular has a cynical vibe to it.
* Yeah, I know the roadies probably said that about MTB when that was introduced.
They should be made to go up a hill that you couldn't ride non assisted.
All those that 'can't see the point' clearly mean 'I hate ebikes'.
Well for professional sport it is. It’s a marketing exercise that’s how professional sport exists.
No, Professional sport exists for entertainment. Sponsorship and brand deals are a relatively new concept.
It’s a race.
Agreed. But its a race we already have. So whats the USP of the e-mtb race? what does it do differently to the classic racing?
Just like all other racing then.
No, all the other racing is to determine who is the fastest mtb rider in the world. Again, what does e-mtb racing do that we dont already have?
All those that ‘can’t see the point’ clearly mean ‘I hate ebikes’.
No. Actually im indifferent to them. I just dont see what a world champs race does that the classic world champs race doesnt already do. Read my posts more clearly, you may understand my point better.
No, Professional sport exists for entertainment
But its selling you that you know...
Those tickets you had to buy, the advertising slots in the middle of broadcast, or the program, the club replica shirts etc. Its all to sell you stuff.
Those athletes weren't payed with your good will and enjoyment back before sponsorship, the branding might not have been so obvious but that doesn't mean it wasn't there.
Even if it were all done for freedom and love in the 60s it certainly doesn't exist (eg now) for any other reason than to sell you stuff. It's a business and that means if it's not making money it doesn't continue.
I just dont see what a world champs race does that the classic world champs race doesnt already do.
Pushes e bike tech, advertises ebikes, sells ebikes. Really that's exactly the same as TT or downhill, would you suggest they don't need XC because it doesn't do anything road doesn't?
Even if it were all done for freedom and love in the 60s it certainly doesn’t exist (eg now) for any other reason than to sell you stuff. It’s a business and that means if it’s not making money it doesn’t continue.
That's spurious logic. How about:
"Food only exists so Tescos have something to sell you."
That’s true but that’s not why most sport exists
Not arguing that watching sport doesn't exist for the enjoyment of watching but that professional that sport is for marketing and is payed for by marketing and wouldn't exist if it was not for marketing operations.
Events would still happen but they wouldn't be professional events.
No, Professional sport exists for entertainment. Sponsorship and brand deals are a relatively new concept
I am not a historian but now it is definitely payed for by marketing and exists because it's a marketing opportunity. I personally can't think of an example of professional sport that hasn't been funded by marketing and wouldn't exist without that funding. I'd be interested to hear of ones that do.
“Food only exists so Tescos have something to sell you
Or more to the point, Tescos only exists to sell you stuff, because it wouldn't exist if there was no money in selling you stuff?
Pedaling a bike round a muddy field or a along a stretch of tarmac is done for the joy of it, you might go watch it for the fun of it. People being paid to do it however is because there's money to be made off their backs, same as any other job, people don't make TVs for the entertainment, that might be why you buy one, but it's not why they're made.
Suggesting professional sport is done for entertainment is like (to use your example) suggesting Tesco sells food solely because people need to eat. One is the reason for the demand (hunger/entertainment) the other is the reason to supply (money, always money)
Is the normal xc race held on the same course? If so I'd be interested to see how the average speed of the ebikes compares to the normal bikes.
Really that’s exactly the same as TT or downhill, would you suggest they don’t need XC because it doesn’t do anything road doesn’t?
Wrong. They are very different event that are challenging the athletes different skill sets. Again, thats my point, the ebike race does nothing that the classic race already does.
Im also not arguing that pro sport isn't a business, It very clearly is. But that business was built on spectators and tv rights, not on merchandise and brand sponsorship. The pro sport does not solely exist to sell you shit. It may do that now, but it exists because people like watching the best athletes in the world compete against each other and will pay to do so.
All those that ‘can’t see the point’ clearly mean ‘I hate ebikes’.
Do I hate e-bikes? No. Do I think they are misused by some? Yes. As an enabler to let older/less able folks out on the road/trails, they're great, fully behind that idea.
What gets me is people that misuse them or insist on being an entitled moron as soon as they get on one. Yes these people would be morons if they were on a regular bike too, but at least they'd be so slow I'd never have to see them, rather than have them barge past you with their saddle set far too low while fully body armoured and full faced up on the climbs, only to then bimble their way down the trail like a pensioner.
As a professional sport though like this, it is purely to sell bikes. The fact they are electrically assisted is pointless, these guys are athletes that can easily ride at or beyond the limiter anywhere.
Or more to the point, Tescos only exists to sell you stuff, because it wouldn’t exist if there was no money in selling you stuff?
Quite. But I'm sure, as humans, we'd still find a way of eating.
As a professional sport though like this, it is purely to sell bikes. The fact they are electrically assisted is pointless, these guys are athletes that can easily ride at or beyond the limiter anywhere.
exactly. so why dont they make it an e-bike race. As in make it a race you could not compete in on a normal bike.
But that business was built on spectators and tv rights
So on selling tickets and TV advertising (as that's why the TV rights have value)?
Wrong. They are very different event that are challenging the athletes different skill sets.
So you think this is exactly XC racing [huge assumption, replace with whichever discipline you like] only with an Ebike? So why not get rid of XC then anchor replace it with the more relevant, more up to date, more likely to sell product, ebike rather than not having ebike?
Like I said on the other thread we already had on this (ahem) it's a promo event, nothing more.
Sponsors instruct their athletes (who have trained hard to race actual bicycles) to participate in a sort of joke race using the mobility aids they're flogging as "sporting equipment". And of course the UCI awards a rainbow jersey adding a vague air of legitimacy to the whole thing. Ultimately it's just a content creation exercise though, the fluffy press release can be re-tweeted, Insta-linked and cut'n'pasted into "Articles" for PB/Vital/STW...
It's nothing to get too excited about really, grifters gonna grift and all that, I mean if they don't do these sort of things, IT managers might not know what toys to buy for their Audi roof racks and possibly revert to the golf...
But it doesn't really do any harm, nobody really believes E-bike racing is a real sport at the end of the day, and yeah you don't sponsor racers unless you want to use them as promotional tools, so it might help flog the odd Turbo Levo or whatever, it's their advertising budget...
ebikes are brilliant, but I don't think this race is going to sell any more of them. If it was a coarse that was unridable without assistance, then that would at least show the differentiation.
exactly. so why dont they make it an e-bike race. As in make it a race you could not compete in on a normal bike.
Well they did, "you" would not be winning this race on a non assisted bike any more than you'd win XC on a cx bike, you'd finish in either case but you wouldn't compete.
ebikes are brilliant, but I don’t think this race is going to sell any more of them. If it was a coarse that was unridable without assistance, then that would at least show the differentiation.
To the average STW [s] riding god[/s] poster or Jim down the pub who frankly couldn't ride the course with our without a motor?
One is the main target market, the other is a nice target of opportunity
Well they did, “you” would not be winning this race on a non assisted bike any more than you’d win XC on a cx bike, you’d finish in either case but you wouldn’t compete.
Im not talking about me. Im talking about Tom Pidcock. Would he ride that same course in the same time (or faster) on a regular bike?
So on selling tickets and TV advertising (as that’s why the TV rights have value)?
Yes. That for entertainment purposes. If no-one was entertained by it then they would not tune in, or buy any tickets to go watch it. Its not rocket science.
If you're undecided or feeling slightly negative to this be sure to check out this vid
Pidcock did also win the U23 XC (normal pedaling) races in Nove Mesto last week.
That FIM E-XBike video is hilarious - they couldnt have done a better piss take if they'd tried.
Pidders is local to me and he took one of my longstanding KOMs earlier in the year. Now I know why! Mechanical doping ****!
Nothing to do with him being extremely rapid or anything.
Yes. That for entertainment purposes. If no-one was entertained by it then they would not tune in, or buy any tickets to go watch it. Its not rocket science.
Indeed, its not rocket science, you've got your cart before your horse.
You buy it for entertainment.
They sell it to you.
They sell it to make a profit.
They have no interest in why you buy it.
Im not talking about me. Im talking about Tom Pidcock. Would he ride that same course in the same time (or faster) on a regular bike?
I understand you don't mean you, you mean schurter or neff, or pidock or whomever hence the inverted commas. To answer your question no, no they couldn't compete against themselves. Any time that bike points flat or vaguely down hill the effort they've saved going up a climb can be used to pedal faster and harder, even if they could keep pace on the ups the motor allows them to be quicker on the downs and flats by virtue of effort saved. It also allows them to lug a 30lb [equivalent] bike which descends faster and easier (saving more energy and fatigue) to the top of the hill at the same speed as their XC bike.
lawman91
Full Member
Are the bikes de-restricted or do they run regular speed limiters? Because if they do have the limiter on still, they might as well just strap extra weight on their XC bikes. I’m not super fit (above average – can hold 200-250 watts pretty comfortably for extended periods) and when I’ve ridden e-bikes I’m constantly on the limiter when climbing. A beanpole like Piddock is just going to be riding a 25kg bike by the time he takes two pedal strokes. Completely pointless.
And yet the average speed for the race was approx 21kph. How do you explain that?
That FIM E-XBike video is hilarious – they couldnt have done a better piss take if they’d tried.
Full-face helmets and knee pads! So awesome 😆
Indeed, its not rocket science, you’ve got your cart before your horse.
You buy it for entertainment.
They sell it to you.
They sell it to make a profit.
They have no interest in why you buy it.
The point someone (it may have been you) made on pg1 id that pro sport only exists to sell you equipment. I am fully aware its a business, just not one based (originally at least) on selling you Stuff. Its purely selling you entertainment.
emtb world cups are not showing me anything I cant already see in a classic race so it must exist purely to promote e-bikes.
Sponsors instruct their athletes (who have trained hard to race actual bicycles) to participate in a sort of joke race using the mobility aids they’re flogging as “sporting equipment”. And of course the UCI awards a rainbow jersey adding a vague air of legitimacy to the whole thing.
If this is true the UCI bit is sad. Sure if everyone's in one place and the framework is in place to have a 'concept race' then go for it and be sure to give some nice prizes. But my firm impression with Rainbow Jerseys (specifically, rather than the title of WC itself) within sport is that they're sacred, due to the way they're worn throughout the year, and the colours displayed in subsequent years as ribbons. Such a race must massively devalue it.
If this is true the UCI bit is sad.
Have you seen the inflammatory language he's used?
mobility aids they’re flogging as “sporting equipment”
He's made all of it up.
(Speaking as someone who kinda likes the idea of ebikes but doesn't see the point of ebike racing).
The point someone (it may have been you) made on pg1 id that pro sport only exists to sell you equipment. I am fully aware its a business, just not one based (originally at least) on selling you Stuff. Its purely selling you entertainment.
This I think its the crux of where we're arguing then, and it's largely because we're on parallel tracks me thinks. I'd argue that there's no difference between "stuff" and "entertainment", both are just goods they're shifting.
emtb world cups are not showing me anything I cant already see in a classic race so it must exist purely to promote e-bikes.
I guess thats because you don't find it entertaining. Things don't have to be massively different [irrespective of whether this is or isn't] to be entertaining though, people watch the various races at a track meet for hours, the only difference from one race to the next is the competitors, they still find it entertaining. Same for football etc. One XC race is only very slightly different from another on the same course but people enjoy both and so on. It's the spectacle for most people and as long as its a spectacle then it remains entertaining.
I guess thats because you don’t find it entertaining. Things don’t have to be massively different [irrespective of whether this is or isn’t] to be entertaining though, people watch the various races at a track meet for hours, the only difference from one race to the next is the competitors, they still find it entertaining. Same for football etc. One XC race is only very slightly different from another on the same course but people enjoy both and so on. It’s the spectacle for most people and as long as its a spectacle then it remains entertaining.
Oh no, I do find it entertaining. But it has to have some value. I want to watch a race were the winner is the fastest male or female rider in the world. To then watch that same race again on a different bike is the bit I find pointless.
I don't know about the UCI E-Worlds, but the EWS-E definitely has a big differentiation from any analogue racing. Look at the Power Stage - absolutely nuts.
I want to watch a race were the winner is the fastest male or female rider in the world. To then watch that same race again on a different bike is the bit I find pointless.
What's your thoughts on XCO and XCC then?
Is one of those pointless?
I am fully aware its a business, just not one based (originally at least) on selling you Stuff. Its purely selling you entertainment.
My point is it would not be professional if it were not selling equipment. It could be an event, one which people gather and even pay to watch but without the selling and marketing of equipment, beer, gambling, fags (in the old days) it wouldn't be professional. The money wouldn't be there it would be amateurs. Hence professional sport only exists due to the selling of equipment.
The events are only promotion opportunity because people watch true but they would not be professional events without the selling of stuff.
What’s your thoughts on XCO and XCC then?
Is one of those pointless?
Not pointless, you have to ride one to get a good start position in the other. So its sort of a semi final if you will.
Like I said on the other thread
Sorry Cookeaa, I didn't see your thread.......
My point is it would not be professional if it were not selling equipment. It could be an event, one which people gather and even pay to watch but without the selling and marketing of equipment, beer, gambling, fags (in the old days) it wouldn’t be professional. The money wouldn’t be there it would be amateurs. Hence professional sport only exists due to the selling of equipment.
The events are only promotion opportunity because people watch true but they would not be professional events without the selling of stuff.
Until recently most sport was broadcast on the BBC (no advertising). Advertising hoardings at football grounds didn't appear until the 70`s. So what were they selling us before that? Pro footballers have been around since 1885.
Don't look at BMX racing. The same people are riding the same course on a BMX with 20" wheels and then another race riding a BMX with 24" wheels, heavens above.
Don’t look at BMX racing. The same people are riding the same course on a BMX with 20″ wheels and then another race riding a BMX with 24″ wheels, heavens above.
i dont watch bmx, but yeah pointless
All those in favour of ebikes on here talk about the fact they can do much longer rides. Maybe double the course length for the ebike events.
And yet the average speed for the race was approx 21kph. How do you explain that?
Given the conditions, I dare say they were quicker on the climbs than descents! But even so, 21kph (13mph) average is nothing for these boys. They could ride at that pace comfortably on their regular XC bikes. But it's like saying an F1 car can do over 200mph, so why are the average speeds for F1 races below that?
The difference an e-bike makes to top XC racers is way, way less than an average joe. An e-bike will allow an average rider to effectively double (if not more) their own power, for these guys like Piddock, it'll likely give them 50% more. I just don't get the point of e-bike racing, I really don't!
I have nothing agaisnt E Bikes and their riders , but dont the see the point in a Ebike race on a normal course .
Given the conditions, I dare say they were quicker on the climbs than descents! But even so, 21kph (13mph) average is nothing for these boys. They could ride at that pace comfortably on their regular XC bikes.
The Rio Olympic gold was taken by nino at 22.2kph. Conditions were quite a lot better and I doubt he was comfortable all the way around that.
(not sure but I think they did 7 laps at the cx in February, Pidcock was second in 1hr 10. That's 18.9kph in awful conditions if I'm right on the lap count 3150m per lap)
If this is true the UCI bit is sad. Sure if everyone’s in one place and the framework is in place to have a ‘concept race’ then go for it and be sure to give some nice prizes. But my firm impression with Rainbow Jerseys (specifically, rather than the title of WC itself) within sport is that they’re sacred, due to the way they’re worn throughout the year, and the colours displayed in subsequent years as ribbons. Such a race must massively devalue it.
The UCI aren't exactly famed as a bastion of integrity are they though, nor are they above considering commercial implications before the good of a sport. As much as they are responsible for the governance of competitive cycling, they're also responsible for it's promotion. So they get to play poacher and gamekeeper from time to time.
Have you seen the inflammatory language he’s used?
You spotted that eh? I'm certainly not impressed and so I'm not going to be charitable about the UCI. An E-bike race is not really that terrible as an "event" I just don't think it deserves the "World championship" title. It is a joke, Riders from various disciplines/backgrounds lobbed together on their various sponsors E-Whip Du-jour as a tacked on afterthought following the actual proper world champs? I suppose it's a bit of Fun, but it ain't a real rainbow jersey is it...
He’s made all of it up.
Have I?
I mean it did actually happen, the UCI awarded a title for riding an e-bike apparently.
Well, this has become quite complex, that’s blokes for you.
Anyway, how about a F1:FormulaE analogy? As far as not seeing the point of mildly duplicate sports. Yes, I’m aware the pedants will fapp over semantics on this, in which case.. crack on.
In 5 years time we will look back on this thread like we loo back a the "derailleurs are just for the over forties" quote by Henri Degrange.
In 5 years time we will look back on this thread like we loo back a the “derailleurs are just for the over forties” quote by Henri Degrange.
You mean half the forum will agree whilst polishing their wood burning audi espresso machine and the other half will think it's utter cobblers perpetuated by ludites and would be hipsters in denial?
It's not going to take 5 years...
In 5 years time we will look back on this thread like we loo back a the “derailleurs are just for the over forties” quote by Henri Degrange.
I still agree with that although I would say over sixties as I still don't ride gears at 52
It’s pointless.
What’s next? Driving people to the top of a hill and just letting them race down the other side?
I think elecric enduro validates e bikes . I now approve.
eBikes are here to stay, no argument.
But eBike racing may well be a dead end, or at least may not have found it's optimum format yet.
Anyway, where's GW when you need him?
Can i watch this anywhere????
Would be a great watch!
DrP