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LOL at the suggestion that xc should shift to become a winter sport. ???
Insightful.
LOL at the suggestion that xc should shift to become a winter sport. ????
Yeah it might work for the UK, possibly, there are some areas that are going to be unridable in winter, other bits that would be perfect.
The warmer/southern US states would love it.
(unsure what would happen to the Antipodean domestic series, would they switch to their winter, or align with the global calendar)
But in the flatlands of northern europe it would lose to 'cross, 100% of the time; and in the mountains, both EU and North America, the riders and courses are under snow.
For most competitors it would be a big no-go. The top riders just buy a house wherever they want to live, but the future rising stars, the juniors, and just the grass roots amateurs racing for fun who are kind of stuck geographically where they happen to live; it will be the end of XC for them.
and just the grass roots amateurs racing for fun who are kind of stuck geographically where they happen to live; it will be the end of XC for them.
Not really. Just because pro/competition season is winter doesn't mean the rest of us have to. No reason you couldn't run your local races in summer regardless (see also football over the school holidays etc)
Other than these few notable exceptions, is there any evidence that any of the better road or track cyclists could (or more importantly want to) cross over and compete with the best of mtb?
I don't quite get the premise that there's any kind of halo effect for the UCI due to these riders crossing over. You have to be pretty road centric (UCI - lol) to believe that the mtb community somehow give any regard to the road. I know I couldn't give a monkeys.
BruceWee
LOL at the suggestion that xc should shift to become a winter sport. ???
Insightful
They're different sports, mainly participated by different people. There is a crossover between them for sure, most mountainbikers I know own other bikes and some of them may be ridden on road but I know very few who cross over to any real extent. The UCI are are a very road/track centric organisation and everything is viewed through those eyes. They believe that the stars of cycling wear lycra and weigh <55kgs, trying to pander to that would be ludicrous.
Occasionally some people are just great cyclists and can do anything, Tom Pidcock is one of those guys. Frustrating that the money and most of the attention is in road cycling as otherwise he'd already be a proper superstar.
Not sure any change is needed really. I don’t really think many road/CX riders could just rock up and dominate mtb like some seem to think. The sport has evolved a lot and needs a lot of technical skill. You’ve got a couple in the men’s field who have the ability and seems Puck has made a good transition to the women’s. That’s it.
Some of the women’s fields earlier in the year were littered with the biggest names from CX who made not impact on the race at all.
Frustrating that the money and most of the attention is in road cycling as otherwise he’d already be a proper superstar
I think you make the mistake of thinking being the best MTB racer in the world compared with road would be a bit like being the best doubles tennis player in the world compared with singles.
I'm pretty sure it'd be more like being the best badminton player in the world.
MTB isn't disproportionately unpopular, it's just road is disproportionately popular.
Don’t pro road riders just end up on a nice dependable road in Bloemfontein instead of a cold wet field near ghent come winter? I might be wrong but I’m guessing it’s a fairly full time job
Outside of the headline and protour riders, no. Not really.
They'll do a handful of training blocks somewhere sunny, 7-10-14 days in Spain, Italy, South Africa, whatever (whatever they can afford!). The rest of their winter will be spent looking for breaks in the weather where they live.
Get 20 places down in a local elite CX race and it'll be a mixture of all three disciplines, CX riders, mid-pack pro road and MTB riders.
It complements road racing whereas XC competes directly with it.
It doesn't though really, I mean there's an audience for mountain bike XC racing, fo'shure and then there's a sport that has as it's main event (the TdF) one of the largest audiences of any single sport (along with the super bowl and the Olympics, and the world cup) Road cycling's participation and audience for events is orders of magnitude greater than XC can ever hope to recreate, and I don't think that by moving it to the Winter would create any more interest in other XC mountain bikers being either 1. able to compete in road racing or 2. encourage road racers to take part in a winter XC race - the chance of injury alone would probably put them off, and outside of a few ultra-talented individuals who's skills and natural talent allow them to compete at the sharp end of either discipline, the tactics, training and demands of each sports are completely different.
It's great to see younger riders competing in all disciplines, but it'll remain the preserve of a very few very talented riders, rather than common place.
dangeourbrain
Frustrating that the money and most of the attention is in road cycling as otherwise he’d already be a proper superstar
I think you make the mistake of thinking being the best MTB racer in the world compared with road would be a bit like being the best doubles tennis player in the world compared with singles.
I’m pretty sure it’d be more like being the best badminton player in the world.MTB isn’t disproportionately unpopular, it’s just road is disproportionately popular.
I'm well aware that road is very much disproportionally more popular than mtb, it has the history, a world famous, an annual 3 week rolling advertisement and the governing body favour it above all. I was simply suggesting that if mtb stars were as big as road "stars" (inverted commas because I know very few of them) he'd be a superstar.
As it is World and Olympic titles in xc and cyclocross don't mean he can drop road. Not that there's any suggestion that he would want to, I suspect he fancies his chances on the road as well and the off road is just a bit of fun. It's nice to have a job AND a hobby.
On a tangent, I wonder what the long term plan for the addition of PFP to the Ineos team means.
She can't race road apart from World Champs as an individual, or can she? She'll be targeting the olympics xc and next years mtb world champs; but what else? Full winter cross season?
She'd wipe the floor with any of the women in these big name 1 day marathon xc or gravel races; and get herself in front of a large audience of people who are probably more likely to (personally) buy a Pinarello or (professionally) buy some Ineos fossil fuels.
She’ll be targeting the olympics xc and next years mtb world champs; but what else?
There does seem to have been a quiet influx of road teams into XC in the last couple of years. Victor Koretzky with Bora-Hansgrohe and Milan Vader with Jumbo Visma aretwo examples.
It's interesting and probably a good thing but I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what benefit these teams are getting by having a single XC racer competing (if it is a single XC racer, it's kind of difficult to find an overview of teams for the XC field).
On a tangent, I wonder what the long term plan for the addition of PFP to the Ineos team means.
There's been talks around Ineos and a womens team since the beginning of this year (maybe as far back as last year?), and i've heard (very tenuous) rumours that a few team staff from other teams have been approached unofficially.
It wouldn't surprise me hugely if something was announced later this year. Especially given the rise in popularity of womens cycling over the last handful of years.
Im not convinced that most roadies could make the successful transition either. Aside from the technical skills, the numerous short sharp efforts required aren’t a prerequisite for most road riders.
Well Sagan kinda showed how hard it is didn't he? He's not a million miles away from Pidcock on a regular basis currently, sure he's not as he once was, but he holds his own in a race mostly. But he was mid pack fodder at Glentress, showing that you can't just rock up as a roadie and expect to perform at the pointy end. It's not like Sagan doesn't have skills, or a burst of pace either
Well Sagan kinda showed how hard it is didn’t he?
It's difficult to say as I have no idea just how far off his best he is. I didn't see him during either the TdF or during the road race even though he was apparently at both.
I know he's currently ranked outside the top 300 road racers though. Whether that reflects the reality of his drop in form or not I don't know. I'd say he's very very far away from Pidcocks level now.
So yes, not every road rider could rock up and do well. But then, as far as I know, no one in any of the threads has said this. No matter how much people seem to wish I had.
It is a shame about Sagan though. I don't think you'd have your Pidcocks, van Aerts, and van der Poels if he hadn't done it first. An absolute legend but sadly one whose time is past.
I don't watch much of any cycling on TV/video, but of the clips I've seen from Scotland (and other rounds this year) the XC courses look pretty bloody technical.
I think a lot of us have come to think of XC as something you do on a 100mm uber light carbon hardtail, on tame trails. But I wouldn't be confident riding a lot of the stuff I saw the XC riders doing, on my 130mm full sus, so I can't see many road riders making the transition, or fairing very well without a LOT of additional training.
You only have to go and ride a MTB Marathon event to see all the more road based riders disappear up the first climb, only to catch lots of them on the first descent tip toeing/sliding their way down, or pedal striking their way through ruts.
I think a lot of us have come to think of XC as something you do on a 100mm uber light carbon hardtail, on tame trails. But I wouldn’t be confident riding a lot of the stuff I saw the XC riders doing, on my 130mm full sus, so I can’t see many road riders making the transition, or fairing very well without a LOT of additional training.
I think people tend to underestimate just how huge the gulf is in terms of athleticism between 'us' and elite level athletes (of pretty much any pro sport).
It could be that pro-cyclists simply have very high VO2 max and that's it but I suspect that their general levels of athleticism are considerably higher than ours and they would be better than us in very short order.
Someone mentioned the female Iranian rider who turned up and said, 'No ****ing way' when she saw the features. However, by the time the race came round she was doing all the A-lines.
But yeah, riders who never ride off road would struggle no matter how athletic they were.
He’s not a million miles away from Pidcock on a regular basis currently
Sagan is a million miles below his best and a million miles away from Pidcock who can be upfront in the classics and wasn't far of top ten in le tour. Sagan hasn't done anything all season.
Winter is typically the time for base fitness for roadies, if you introduce XC and do the CX races then is that going to cause issues with training and fitness?
I’m not against any of this, just trying to play devil’s advocate and think out loud.
I'm not sure you'll tempt Roadies that typically race CX in winter over to doing a full winter XC series (such things do already exist). You'd probably stand more chance of persuading Summer XC racers over to CX during the winter.
As for training implications; I'd say anything that keeps people riding/racing through the winter months has to be generally positive so long as it doesn't lead to someone overtraining.
If your main aim is to be fit for summer racing Road/Crits, and thus for winter the goal is to be competitive on a Sunday racing CX for an hour that's probably manageable for most people, and there's no harm doing a couple of XC races on the side, but it's unlikely to be a priority. If someone ends up aiming to podium through winter in their local CX League and do the same in XC races, they're maybe runing the risk of burning out training a bit hard through the week spanking themselves over the weekend having minimal recovery (especially while it's damp and cold.
The more traditional Roadie approach of racing a bit of CX and maybe splashing out for a week pedalling about on a Mediterranean island seems a bit more civilised TBH...
Plus it's even more bikes/kit to shell out for if you're racing Road, CX and XC.
Don't forget DHers and Enduro riders.
Part of the issue is that there is currently no winter race format for mountain biking (at least at World Cup level). Now that XC bikes and features seem to be getting bigger it might be more attractive as something to do over winter.
It could be interesting to see what happens if riders had the opportunity to do a full season of both XC and Enduro (or DH).
With the current format of XC races, it doesn't have to take place in an alpine environment. Like someone said on another thread, what you need is a skills course with couple of bastard climbs.
A proper daft statement coming in...but...I'm not sure DHers and Enduro riders will do any XC races - they don't seem to do any now and unless they are entering under a different name, they don't appear to be doing CX races either (I'm genuinely hoping to be proved very wrong here).
So even if you did have more races over winter then I'm not sure you would attract DH/Enduro riders...they don't seem to be doing them now.
I don't think Winter XC should be such a weird idea, although it does come with it's own issues, and logistical problems. Other winter sports like Biathlon are effectively the XC version of ski (where DH is, well, the DH of skiing) and that seems to manage OK with TV coverage and the like.
The challenge would be the locations I guess, as @BruceWee suggests; you need a challenging course that needs to have "bastard" climbs and the infrasture to support it pits stands for spectators etc , OK those are mostly summertime ski resorts at the moment, but other suitable locations must exist, surely?
I agree with @DickBarton, maybe some of the current Enduro riders could ride XC (whether they'd want to is another story) I think DH is just too much of a different sport though.