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A petition has been set up to help save The Hub.
[url= http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/savethehub/ ]Petition to save the Hub[/url]
Pop your name on the list and help show your support for this place 🙂
hasn't the horse already bolted?
doesn't the FC own the land they want to buy? how's that gonna work then?
Done
Another petition to save it and this one after the new Café owners have been announced, seems pointless.
I have nothing constructive to say.
Neither do I. But then that's what STW's for it seems. Anyone fancy starting a petition in favour of deafeated contenders accepting defeat with just a tiny bit of grace?
Anyone fancy starting a petition in favour of deafeated [[i]sic[/i]] contenders accepting defeat with just a tiny bit of grace?
It's their livelihood. They spent ten years of their lives building up a business and now they're looking at having it all taken away. We, well, you, can argue all day about the finer points, but, from Emma and Tracy's point of view, it all boils down to one very simple fact: their world is dissolving in front of them. If you don't understand that, fair enough; but don't tell them when they should stop fighting.
Done
done
If it is/was their livelihood at stake then maybe they should have went in with a better offer than the one they went in with.
Not signing. Business is business and I see no special reasons to keep the hub
Not signing. Business is business and I see no special reasons to keep the hub
Agree.
Were they not invited to tender for the job then ?
Or did they and in fact they lost it ?
Why did they not get to continue ?
Tell us more and if its unfair you may get more signatures.
No for me
You DIDN'T sign it TWICE! That's a new approach...
Anywhere that can run out of baked spuds on a bank holiday weekend doesn't deserve my help!
Oops didn't mean that but have to be honest I've never liked the bike shop and the cafe is ok at best so change is good in my book. You have to remember that just because you work somewhere doesnt me you have a job for life so all this save our hub crap is a bit boring all the best to the new people
In fact I think they should let top gear blow the hub up
Don't bother, it'll be privatised, closed, bulldozed and fenced off in a couple of years anyway.
err no.
I first went to Glentress 8 years ago and the cafe was a shack with some mouldy sofas and only about 12 seats inside which were all taken. 8 years later their investment is such that you still sit outside on the same mouldy sofas if the 12 chairs inside are taken. Bear in mind the usual weather conditions in Scotland, I think this is pretty poor.
When I was there with a group of 7, one of us was Celiac so brought his own food, but bought a coffee from them and we sat outside on one of the picnic tables. As soon as he had drunk his coffee, one of the girls came and kicked him off the table as he wasn't eating their food although the other six of us were.
I personally have no sympathy.
It's their livelihood. They spent ten years of their lives building up a business and now they're looking at having it all taken away. We, well, you, can argue all day about the finer points, but, from Emma and Tracy's point of view, it all boils down to one very simple fact: their world is dissolving in front of them. If you don't understand that, fair enough; but don't tell them when they should stop fighting.
They've known for years that they would have to tender for the new development. Any business which is properly run would not assume that they were a shoe-in and will make contingency plans, squirrel money away, etc. This should therefore not come as a shock to The Hub, and if it has and they are not prepared, then that shows arrogance and poor business acumen. So I would dispute that "their world is dissolving in front of them", as they can't have been so stupid as to not plan ahead.
I totally agree with Northwind (and in fact asked similar in another thread). The least they can do is to show publicly some respect for the FC and the new lease holders - any prospective business partners or landowners that they wish to court may not appreciate their surly attitude. And it does their image to the biking community in general no favours either.
North wind, legend & trimix +1
Kit - could not have put it better.. There staff have also been aware of this for a long time, they have all had ample opportunity to find alternative solutions. Time they let go and move on, its tragic to watch them cling to a sinking ship and claim in the public domain that they were the driving force behind making GT a success. I've had a good laugh at all the stuff on the net, forum chat, newspaper reports and the sharp honest response from FC head honcho but it's now a cow with very sore udders.
What ever happens with the hub happens, if I can help them I will, simply because they have done a lot to help out bikers.
That said, a £9,000,000 visitors centre? How many of us who actually use glentress or inners, where asked what we think, the money should be spent on?
I for one, can think of a lot better ways to spend that money, like developing the forest. How much is being spent on that? or are we going to drive over, simply to visit the visitors centre 😯
As for losing passionate mountain bikers and having them be replaced.
Maybe that will work, time will tell.
I do feel really sorry for Emma and Tracy and hope they can work out something to move on to next.
GT has been expanding (trails & number of people) at a fantastic rate and the hub has to as well. There was a tender process and they never won, that's the the way I see it. Like someone else said uf ut was an unfair process I'd sign the petition.
Personally, I'm looking forward to see how things are going to develop there with the new businesses.
Kaesae I think the visitor centre will be aimed at more than just bikers, you may be surprised that there are other users of the forest.
"The Hub at Innerleithen" sounds OK to me. One of those big helicopters could shift the cafe there in minutes 🙂
No doubt the selling of the forests is a good idea as well, surely a similar process will occur ❓
There is no reason to shut the hub and have only one company doing business at the site, yet again individuals choices are being limited by out of touch government bodies.
If there are 300,000 visitors a year, as is being claimed, then there is enough space for more than one company to trade.
Having only one company doing business there, is not only discriminatory to all other companies. It also means we have less choice on the options available to us at glentress, you see this is a good thing ❓
We are gaining some resources yes, but we are also losing resources, why is that ❓
BenjiM - Member
Kaesae I think the visitor centre will be aimed at more than just bikers, you may be surprised that there are other users of the forest.
You seem to be missing the point, if the facility is for those that use the forest, my point is why where they not cosulted and involved in the decision ❓
tough call. As Kit et al say it's business...but was it not the UK's 1st trail centre. which through the efforts of E and T and of course others became the most highly regarded?
I doubt I'll spend much time in the replacement. if I want comfy surroundings etc I'll go for a coffee in town. The rough edge is a good thing imo.
But I am clearly not the target market and I guess if the whole thing gets more folk off their arses that has to be a good thing.
Having only one company doing business there, is not only discriminatory to all other companies. It also means we have less choice on the options available to us at glentress, you see this is a good thing
So you started a petition years ago to back a second (or third!) business at Glentress did you? You weren't happy to just let Emma and Tracey rake in the cash when there were other businesses clamouring at the FC's door to set up shop and cash in on the popularity of the forest?
Oh...clearly you were!
it's funny to see how their petition mentions that they want to invest in and improve their facilities now. perhaps they could have thought of that one sooner, and already had a cafe that couldn't be replaced so easily
Kit - MemberHaving only one company doing business there, is not only discriminatory to all other companies. It also means we have less choice on the options available to us at glentress, you see this is a good thing
So you started a petition years ago to back a second (or third!) business at Glentress did you? You weren't happy to just let Emma and Tracey rake in the cash when there were other businesses clamouring at the FC's door to set up shop and cash in on the popularity of the forest?
Oh...clearly you were!
Blah blah and blah!
winstonsmith - Member
it's funny to see how their petition mentions that they want to invest in and improve their facilities now. perhaps they could have thought of that one sooner, and already had a cafe that couldn't be replaced so easily
They should invest money when their tenure is coming to an end and they don't know if it will be renewed ❓ 😯
How many forests in this country could be developed and have had that development detrimentally affected by the FC. The main driving force behind glentress was the hub, their presence at glentress has been a significant contributory factor, to it's success.
Not only the facitlities they have provided, but also in raising awareness for the forest and the possibilities and potential it has.
I have nothing constructive to say.
have you read the petition kaesae? they're talking about investing now, which seems even sillier
anyway, i feel more sorry for all the staff. i hope some/all off them get jobs in the new places. quite a few of them have been working there for years and there can't be that many jobs in the area
it is water under the bridge now! Roll on the newbies
winstonsmith - Member
have you read the petition kaesae? they're talking about investing now, which seems even sillieranyway, i feel more sorry for all the staff. i hope some/all off them get jobs in the new places. quite a few of them have been working there for years and there can't be that many jobs in the area
Not now Boy! I'm busy!!!
winstonsmith - Member
have you read the petition kaesae? they're talking about investing now, which seems even sillieranyway, i feel more sorry for all the staff. i hope some/all off them get jobs in the new places. quite a few of them have been working there for years and there can't be that many jobs in the area
Would you renovate a house you could be leaving soon ❓
What about putting a new engine in a car, you might not own soon ❓
Here's another one, would you upgrade the facilities you currently manage, when you might not get to manage them for much longer ❓
I'm not sure what The Hubs annual turn over is but I'm sure they weren't doing it for free, that's not to say they are not passionate about what they do! I do feel they could have invested in the cafe/facilities a bit more in previous years.
Maybe if there business plan was better prepared they would have got the tender, who knows? At the end of the day if the best business got the lease and it was done fairly then I don't see a problem. Just because someone/thing has been there for a while it doesn't automatically mean they should stay there. Other people deserve a chance as well.
but was it not the UK's 1st trail centre. which through the efforts of E and T and of course others became the most highly regarded?
Well, how about Coed-y-Brenin? There were waymarked trails and a cafe there in 1996 IIRC. Pretty sure the Hub wasn't there in 2001 when I 1st went to GT. There were great trails at GT before the Hub opened. (I could say better, as they weren't as sanitised and 'sustainable'.
kaesae, are you saying that they should never update and invest in their business and product that they are selling to the paying public? I'm not saying they should be investing when there lease is due to expire but they could have done in years gone by. They leased the land from the FC for X amount of years and I'm pretty sure made fairly good profit margins along the way unless they wouldn't have continued. I think in hindsight they may have got a little complacent and that's why going to tender can be a good thing for competing potential businesses. The product they are providing is continually being evolved for the customer.
Having only one company doing business there, is not only discriminatory to all other companies. It also means we have less choice on the options available to us at glentress, you see this is a good thingWe are gaining some resources yes, but we are also losing resources, why is that
Personaly I have been going into Peebles more often than using the Hub, better facilities and value for money for some time now. Sad to say that really for I have been going to GT since long before &Stanes and was at one time on first name/chatty terms with the girls.
cynic-al - Member
tough call. As Kit et al say it's business...but was it not the UK's 1st trail centre
No. Think you might find that Mabie was followed by Coed y Brenin. GT had a "trail" that included lots of forest road and a hike UP the Boundary trail and a descent down the track that joins the mast climb(which was the original climb before Brit Spears to the shelter & mast) Showing my age now 😳
on the history bit, i never remember any scottish trail centre going back as far as CyB, first reference i can find is,
[url= http://www.bikemagic.com/trail-news/offroad-party-at-mabie-forest/1132.html ]bike magic 2000.[/url]
whereas red bull at Coed y Brenin, [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/trailguide/uk/wales/coed-y-brenin/ ]1997[/url]
Although i do remember racing at Afan in 1993.
Here's another one, would you upgrade the facilities you currently manage, when you might not get to manage them for much longer
I might if whether I got to manage them much longer depended on just that.
I will be signing the petition. I think it is totally unfair for E&T to have had to tender for their own business in the first place and I think the thought of being booted out probably has taken up a lot of their time over the last few years. After all, it was only a few years ago the same thing happened along at Innerleithen - they legitimately took over the uplift and developed that venue in to a buzzing success; visitor numbers were up, local businesses were benefitting from increased visitor numbers and the town was booming with new mountain bike-oriantated businesses popping up left right and centre. Then FC decided too many people on the hill was a risk to H&S and called a stop, later offering the business out under new rules through a tendering process. OK so now there is a comfy bus but the venue has flopped and all those new businesses are feeling the pinch. Once all that passed E&T had a few months of being led to belive that FC was going to build a new centre and invest in Glentress, however as the budget went up and up it soon became obvious that another tendering process was to be sprung upon them. The Hub has only been going for 10 years and is just at the point of being able to expand itself - not that their landlord would allow anyway. So I think all these people who moan about the lack of investment should step back and realise that E&T would if they could, but they can't because it doesn't suit the FC plan. I think its worth pointing out all the investment that they have put in which no-one gives them credit for either - running Kids Club for all those years until the parents realised they could get more free stuff from someone else, and Tracy building parts of the freeride for £0 compared to how much did the wallride cost that is closed??? I think it is very unfair and I will not be supporting the new businesses, nor will I be renewing my permit.
I must admit that when I saw the news on this my initial reaction was 'oh no' then after successful counter-arguments I thought 'maybe the folk at the FC have more information at hand/know best on this'.
Not signing. Business is business and I see no special reasons to keep the hub
Business is indeed business, but speaking as someone who his own company, i can't see anything wrong in helping nice people out if you can. It's not like they are asking the mtb comunity to buy the land for them.
One day you might need a favour too.
No amount of petitioning is going to make this happen.
New business owners will have paid a premium on top of the probably quite high lease on the new premises.
To move the goalposts on them and have another cafe open on their doorstep would be grossly unfair.
Time for the girls to bow out gracefully as I think at present theyre not doing themselves any favours
at present theyre not doing themselves any favours
Whats happening??
Would you renovate a house you could be leaving soon
if i was going to sell a house which had a crummy kitchen, i probably would renovate it beforehand, yes. it would be worth more.
maybe the hub should have upgraded their facilities, and put future upgrade plans in their tender (assuming they didn't, given they are now having a petition saying they now will).
i don't get the whole 'mythical' love of the hub. it was alright, the banoffee pie was superb (although being asked if i wanted banana added to my banoffee pie was somewhat weird), but thats about it.
they lost the tender simply because their application wasn't good enough. alpine bikes application was clearly better - they're hardly some world-dominating multinational, are they... it'll probably be better, and in a year or two we'll have forgotten the furory over the hub (as we sup our coffee/cake/milkshake)
going around bad-mouthin the FC is hardly a great thing to do if they want to stay in the industry either - i'd certainly not want them involved in any project i was about to run now...
if nobody had liked the hub, it came up for tender, and it was chosen again against a more 'popular' choice, you'd all still be up in arms about 'government favouratism' or something...
Whats happening?
Setting up online petitions inspite of losing a fair and square tendering process
Airing a lot of dirty washing in public through FB etc
A few other silly petty things I've heard about thru friends that work at Glentress that I wont go into here.
It's hardly very professional and given that FC are involved with most MTB venues in Scotland so it would seem not really conducive to any further business ventures they might have in mind in the MTB arena. Also as this has become a very public spat given todays internet I'm sure future business partners/landlords are taking note of attitudes as we speak
It was a ratty old portacabin/toilets but I just assumed it was what they were given to work with and it had a sort of 'charm' especially with the porch in summer 🙂
Fair enough re. history, it does seem to me that GT established/cemented trail centres as "good things" in the UK.
While it will be sad to see the old Hub cafe go, I'm not entirely sure I'm willing to sign the petition. From the very limited information that's come my way, it seems as if they were involved in a tendering process with other groups, and another local business won that process - Glentress Hotel?
I think if there was some suggestion that the tendering process was biased or unfair in some way, I'd be more than happy to lend what support I could, but there don't seem to be any complaints about that side of things. Is there more to the story than meets the eye?
Absolutely pointless.
Business has nothing to do with loyalty. If it was so important to them they should have stepped up their game a few years ago, this isn't something that's come out of the blue, they signed up to a limited lease.
I have to bid for work 365 days a year and get pissed off every day when someone else 'buys' it from under my nose.
Old chinese proverb say 'Tough Shit Cookie Boy'!
If they are good as everyone reckons they will come bad bigger and stronger.
I'm not holding my breath though!
Sans leurs efforts quotidiens, leur prise de risques et leur passion pour le sport, Glentress ne serait jamais devenu le premier centre de VTT en Europe
well I certainly disagree with that.
whereas red bull at Coed y Brenin, 1997
Aye, I remember riding CyB while the very first few sections of singletrack were being built. I was on yr 8 camp at secondary school, so that would have been 1996.
What about a petition for me! my Petrobras contract is up at the end of the month and there is nowt I can do about that, thats why its called a contract/lease, I know the contract is being extendend just not with me, so I asked why, they said you are two expensive! I said fair enough, move on, BLOODY BRAZILIANS!
Have they asked or been told why they were unsucesful with their tender? Surly this information is not a secret? If it's fair cop then the petition is a waste of time move on, IMO.
PS any one got a job for me come the begining of march? Will work for bike parts, Hope loveliness preferred! 😆
The wording of the petition is a bit odd and it smacks of desperation. In the response to them losing the bid they said that 300000 people using glentress was wildly optimistic. If this is so why would anybody agree to have 2 places on the same site diluting the numbers even further. Look hub you lost the bid as you thought it was unwise financially to pay too much. Somebody else has taken a greater risk, maybe it will work out for them maybe not. Good luck for your next project though But I think it is time to move on.
hungry monkey - MemberWould you renovate a house you could be leaving soon
if i was going to sell a house which had a crummy kitchen, i probably would renovate it beforehand, yes. it would be worth more.
Even if you didn't own the house ❓ 😯
GEDA - Member
The wording of the petition is a bit odd and it smacks of desperation. In the response to them losing the bid they said that 300000 people using glentress was wildly optimistic. If this is so why would anybody agree to have 2 places on the same site diluting the numbers even further. Look hub you lost the bid as you thought it was unwise financially to pay too much. Somebody else has taken a greater risk, maybe it will work out for them maybe not. Good luck for your next project though But I think it is time to move on.
Opinion rejected!
Good luck to the previous leaseholders, thank you for being part of a great experience for me everytime I visited and I wish you all the best for your future business.
I will shop with you. Thank you.
Which bit?
The bit about the hub not wanting to bid too much as the figures were pie in the sky?
Or that somebody has taken a risk and bid more and it would be a bit unfair to have another outlet on the same site. What happened at kielder was interesting as the original place just moved across the road. A lease these days is just that, a finite amount of time.
I was not going to chip in but I just cant help it.
All the parties should avoid getting into a slagging match since its a done deal and it will just look bad for everyone.
I signed the petition to show support for E & T but I will also be supporting Olly when he opens at the Peel. I have stayed at the GT hotel a few times and I rate what he has done there.
I interpreted the petition as a request to buy the land and build a new cafe as an alternative to the Peel. They have always rented the land and so have never been able to invest in the premises. It will be an alternative because they will be very different, offering a different product. (yes it will be food and er food)
But...
I doubt they will be successful and fundamentally I feel they should look at opportunities elsewhere. Ideally it would be good for all of us if they could set up in Innerleithen although I suspect openings are hard to find over there.
Under the FC we have seen the systematic neglect of the UK's forests, their short sighted incompetent management of these valuable resources have seen us reduced to a situation where the public ownership of the forests is at question ❓
Every suitable forest in the country, could be a recreational facility, it is not and will not be under the FC.
Lack of promotion, lack of innovation and a distinct lack of being in touch with the individuals visiting these locations, has left us in a very poor situation
To claim that these short sighted, idiots, who are but minions of bureaucracy, have the ability to make this kind of decision, is an insult to every free thinking person in this country.
The hub should close because the FC has decided that what we need at glentress is a new £9m building, to experience the outdoors WTF 😯
How many of our own forests would £9m have bought ❓
No, the hub is closing as they were a temporary business in a temporary building who's lease has come to an end. They were invited to bid on a new lease and lost to another local enterprise.
Personally, I'm quite happy that the systematic neglect of the forests has given me many good places to ride my bike
Kaesae bringing his own inimitable brand of logic to the thread, nice one. Still none of it will matter when the floods strike, or the earthquakes, or the stellar realignment.
You've hit the nail on the head there kaesae son. The FC have a lot to answer for when it comes to Glentress and all the trails there.
The fc grow trees softwood trees. In this country they grow too quickly so the wood is not very good quality. Most pine tree forests in this country are dark and full of midges not great places to hang out. Where are you suggesting they get the capital and customers for another load of glentresses? Most of the forests around me have a few walks but the shooting rights are probably worth the most.
So £500,000 is enough investment, over how many years ❓
The forest is also well managed and run, so all of the trails and existing forestry commision facilities are spot on ❓
We have a massive resource and nothing is happening with it ❓
The situation is so bad that the forest will more likely than not get sold.
Show me one success story by the FC, that didn't involve outside bodies also participating ❓
They seem to have chopped a lot of trees down in kidland. Not sure if they had any help.
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/carron-valley-spot-the-difference
http://www.carronvalley.org.uk/
Tip of the iceberg!
Carron Valley still has better access and more miles of bike-specific trail than most private forestry in the UK...
Northwind - Member
Carron Valley still has better access and more miles of bike-specific trail than most private forestry in the UK...
Ok that's great, woo and hoo
This is one of my favourite car parks
For canoeing in 😯
you do realise that local riders picked the hill at Innerleithen a long long time before the FC ever knew MTB existed? Although you're quite right, the FC never should've let the Tweed roam free or for rain to happen
>How many of our own forests would £9m have bought?<
If you can be arsed with the mental cruelty of FOI'ing them you might ask where and how many of our forests were sold to fund it? 🙂
For better or worse FCS has gone considerably out of its way to create a 5 star tourist attraction at GT and they clearly felt The Peel to be the embodiment of that.
Sadly I believe that E&T fate was sealed a long time ago. As other (minor) partners have previously found to their cost - you don't challenge FCS and come out on top.
Business is indeed business, but speaking as someone who his own company, i can't see anything wrong in helping nice people out if you can.
That is very nice and you are to be applauded. Unfortunately, you are talking about a private business (yours) and not a public business (FC). Legally, they cannot 'help nice people out' - all tenders have to be open competition, transparent and fair - because the taxpayer insists upon that sort of thing. What is good, legal and proper cannot be bent when it suits - it is even handed if nothing else.