[Closed] Petition to increase speed limit on electric bikes

There is no speed limit on ePeds, is there? Or do you mean electric only bikes?

Bookmarking.😉

Oh, I see… I’ve checked the petition… you mean the assist limit. Look up Speed Pedelecs… the law allows those already.

You can increase it. Just pay for insurance.

allowed under euro law - not UK IIRC

Stupid idea anyway. Yes for experienced and skilled urban commuters 20 mph would be good but the carnage from others would not be so good. Netherlands has seen a huge amount of injuries to older folk at 15 mph.

Stupid idea.

Must be a troll petition,

"All electric bikes in the UK are subject to an assisted speed limit of 25Kmh"

"We would like the government to consider adjusting the limits to be in line with US legislation of 20Mph."

They hate the metric system. 😉

You can increase it. Just pay for insurance.

And type approval, registration, a number plate, a motorbike licence/CBT, and a helmet.

I'm rarely in agreement with TJ but he's spot on ^^^
This is irresponsible and dangerous.

Excellent idea.
15, mph is just too slow for keeping up with traffic while commuting and hitting flow trails whilst shredding the gnar

30kph or 18mph would be fine , I am going to stick a caveat on that
Less power
500watts is huge , very few riders can sustain 500 watts or even produce 500 watts
Why not limit the watts as well, hard to legislate I know but not impossible
For most people having 150-200 watts extra would be fine, yes you would have to put in some effort but thats kinda the point
Or just go slower . less watts = smaller batteries , less weight , less trail deg, less cost
quicker charge times if thats an issue
Ask anyone you knows their ftp or trains to watts what riding with a constant 200w output is like , then adding even 1w/kg to your own output would feel like
going from 3w/kg to 4w/kg at the flick of a switch turns you from fat lad at the back blowing out your arse, to trail god status or keeping up with commuter traffic

Seems sensible to me given that 20mph is deemed to be a safe speed limit in urban areas. If it is too fast for (powered) bikes then surely we need amend the speed limit for cars too.

I can see the need for a lower limit on shared use paths, but that is probably already the case even with solely human power.

Thank you for sharing your views in a well reasoned and eloquent post OP.

Shared use paths have a suggested limit of 12mph.

Sustrans suggest that more than 18 and you should be on the road/non shared path.

Shared paths are shit but they are our best option for a safe cycle route. We will never get dedicated cycle paths.

So I'm pro ebike limits as they are.

The mechanism is there for faster limits. If you can't be bothered (and will also lose the ability to go on shared paths) .....well

15mph is too fast for plenty of shared paths.

My experience is that these things are already scary enough on the continent where they're now quite common.

Can't really see any increase in power as a good thing unless they're licensed and limited to use on the roads only.

I've hacked my commuting ebike (as posted about on here previously) so it does 20/21mph. 15mph is unsafe on busy commuting roads - the few extra mph makes all the difference.
HOWEVER - i've been commuting the same route for 15 years, i only use my extra 'speed boost' through one particular stretch of road the rest of the time I sit at 15mph. There's no way I would want the recent covid converts to bikes let lose on anything faster than 15mph.

I know the legal ramifications of 'hacking' and accept them.
Keep the current legal framework - if people want to go faster they can hack it with the legal consequences or buy a moped/125cc/pedalec and the associated licencing requirements

I guess you also accept the potentially fatal increased speeds with a heavy ebike that pedestrians unwittingly suffer for them too do you @rustynissanprarie?

This is the thing about people who break the law - they always think about themselves and what risk they will accept and don't give a monkeys about the risks they pose to others - who don't have a say.

I thought there was a 250W limit? I'd say that the current limit is an ok compromise.

I might be persuaded that of a slightly more phased limit. Maybe you should get 250W at 25 km/h, 125W at 27.5 km/h then zero at 30km/h. So fit cyclists can go a bit faster.

My experience is that these things are already scary enough on the continent where they’re now quite common.

I'm with this. A lot of folks I see on ebikes just aren't safe at 25 and it's way too easy to get to that speed.  It's fine when there is nothing funny happening and the road is clear but, for example, I see them heading up the outside of slow moving traffic into oncoming cars at full speed.  There is nothing stopping you riding faster than 25, just either ride harder or get insurance. I'm ok with that

Stupid idea anyway. Yes for experienced and skilled urban commuters 20 mph would be good but the carnage from others would not be so good. Netherlands has seen a huge amount of injuries to older folk at 15 mph.

Stupid idea.

Damn right. The risks outweigh any benefits. And brings out all those who feel that a law intended for general public safety shouldn't apply to them.

And needing to up the power to keep up with traffic on busy commuting roads? Lord knows how I've survived commuting into Nottingham when my average is about 12-13mph.

I’ve hacked my commuting ebike (as posted about on here previously) so it does 20/21mph. 15mph is unsafe on busy commuting roads – the few extra mph makes all the difference.
HOWEVER – i’ve been commuting the same route for 15 years, i only use my extra ‘speed boost’ through one particular stretch of road the rest of the time I sit at 15mph. There’s no way I would want the recent covid converts to bikes let lose on anything faster than 15mph.

This is stone cold the best post on stw in years, bravo, well done. Keep being awesome.

I'd sign a petition to make the things slower. Did my annual visit to a trail centre last week. Only riders who harassed or even hit my 9 year old son were ebike ****wits.

“Seems sensible to me given that 20mph is deemed to be a safe speed limit in urban areas. If it is too fast for (powered) bikes then surely we need amend the speed limit for cars too.”

If ebikes pre-dated bike lanes then this argument would make sense. But sadly we have bike lanes that struggle with bikes going 15mph, let alone faster. An ebike can go a lot quicker down a wiggly town centre bike lane than a road bike because it can accelerate so fast up to its limiter.

Never felt the need to get more than 25.5kph out of mine, if i'm going downhill or flat the motor stops and my legs kick in more, when i hit uphill the motor kicks in and i get a little rest, it's not as if you hit 16mph and the bike becomes impossible to use, unless you're in high assist mode, if you're in eco and hit the limit, the changeover isn't horrific.

Plus the age old question on this type of thing, why do you want to go faster, are you in some type of race, or time limit, can't think of many scenarios where this is true for me, so adding 5 minutes to a trip isn't a total killer.

I'd say it's an argument that makes sense cgg. E bikes exist now and people don't commute by bike because they don't feel safe in those bike lanes. Keeping up with traffic, meaning cars aren't constantly passing them, is probably one of the main things that will make people feel safer and increase bike commuting numbers. Which is a good thing for the environment, for people and for congestion.

Keeping up with traffic, meaning cars aren’t constantly passing them, is probably one of the main things that will make people feel safer and increase bike commuting numbers. Which is a good thing for the environment, for people and for congestion.

whats stopping them ?

Other kinds of electric bike

Any electric bike that does not meet the EAPC rules is classed as a motorcycle or moped and needs to be registered and taxed. You’ll need a driving licence to ride one and you must wear a crash helmet.

The bike must also be type approved if either:

it can be propelled without pedalling (a ‘twist and go’ EAPC)
it does not meet the EAPC rules

This should have been done by the manufacturer or importer before you bought it. If it’s been type approved, it will have a plate showing its type approval number.

It's fine to promote electric mopeds for road use but I'm with TJ on keeping the current limits on electric assist. The difficulty will arise if they are visually similar, then we'll get modeds on bridleways and shared paths for which they're not suitable.

Keeping up with traffic, meaning cars aren’t constantly passing them, is probably one of the main things that will make people feel safer and increase bike commuting numbers.

If you want to keep up with traffic you want a motorbike.

If you want a bicycle, you don't want something that keeps up with traffic.

They're completely different things and you really don't want to blur the lines between the two. The main thing that will make people safer using alternative forms of transport is providing the infrastructure for them. But that infrastructure also becomes unsafe if you add powerful motorised vehicles to them.

The difficulty will arise if they are visually similar, then we’ll get modeds on bridleways and shared paths for which they’re not suitable.

Already happens in Holland and it's stupid. Mopeds buzzing you at 30mph in bike lanes.

If you want to keep up with traffic you want a motorbike.

If you want a bicycle, you don’t want something that keeps up with traffic.

They’re completely different things and you really don’t want to blur the lines between the two.

I think your spot on.

Theres currently a lot of complaints On the Bath-Bristol Psychopath at the Bristol end to do with the speed of the cyclists who actually pedal ‘too fast’.

Not sure how well that’s going to play out with the proposed freshly bought 20 mph legal Beast, let alone once it’s been derestricted.

Especially with the fresh batch of gremlins 🙂
May be worth pursuing a form of cycling proficiency for the adults.

“E bikes exist now and people don’t commute by bike because they don’t feel safe in those bike lanes. Keeping up with traffic, meaning cars aren’t constantly passing them, is probably one of the main things that will make people feel safer and increase bike commuting numbers.”

You can’t safely increase the speed limit of an ebike from 15 to 30mph without fundamentally changing what it is. You need so much more motor and battery power, which then means a lot more weight. You need much more powerful brakes. And the percentage of power an average person can add to the motor would then arguably be so low that pedals become pointless. And you have to ban them from bike lanes. And introduce driving tests and insurance. And helmet legislation.

If you want an ebike that can do 30mph assisted then what you really want is an electric motorbike, which already exist.

Plus the age old question on this type of thing, why do you want to go faster, are you in some type of race, or time limit, can’t think of many scenarios where this is true for me, so adding 5 minutes to a trip isn’t a total killer.

Great to see so much common sense on here. Ebikes could and should revolutionise leisure and utility riding, making it an option for all - my disabled wife for example. Speed has nothing to do with it.

You want to go faster, especially given the acceleration, get a proper electric scooter/motorbike. Get a license, tax, insurance, etc and keep off cycle/shared lanes.

It's basically a re-invention of the moped, ie a small motorbike.

Like the moped they should be on the road only, with number plates and rego (but free), and insurance because they have an equal ability to do harm. Their speed limit should be 35mph.

I have no problem with assisted eBikes on our paths and trails so long as the power is limited to no more than average human capability. Emphasis on average, not a peak.

Seems a touch of the Audi Quattro about this - there was a safety argument pro power combined with 4 wheel drive but the apocryphal outcome was that there weren't fewer accidents - the accidents just happened further round the corner.

I recon widen the split - reduce the power/speed for unlicensed/uninsured 'leccy bikes and raise the performance for licenced/insured units. (More correctly, create a "middle" tier of ebikes).

Low powered units for trail centres unless you are a blue badge holder.

Seems sensible to me given that 20mph is deemed to be a safe speed limit in urban areas. If it is too fast for (powered) bikes then surely we need amend the speed limit for cars too.

You do have to have a license, registration, insurance, and MOT for cars, though.

My bike has a first gen Shimano 6000 motor - it doesn't disconnect well and is really draggy. It's hard work peddling over 15mph and is a lot slower than my gravel or road bikes through a fast tight double parked section of my commute hence my 20mph hack.

My off the cuff opion is that 20mph is a bit high.

Recently, I think I've managed my first two Strava Gran Fondos (100Km+) in under four hours having tried them for ~3 years, on routes with 66-70 feet per mile, ~16.9mph average with Normal Power of ~215W (~2.7W/Kg).

I think 15.5mph cut off is a little low, especially if you ride flatter routes. Something like 17/18mph might be better, although that means mixed bike/ebike groups are going to further splintered up inclines.

a month or so ago I posted on hear about using a ebike to help with a 30 mile ew flat commute. The consensus was it wouldn't work due to the 15mph limit. Despite that I feel that 20mph is only of use for very few people. The greatest win for ebikes is for getting people out of cars for sub 10 mile commutes, usually in towns and cities. Here a 20mph limit is likely to cause safety issues with pedestrians and as others have said an electric moped covers those who need more speed and / or range.

My bike has a first gen Shimano 6000 motor – it doesn’t disconnect well and is really draggy. It’s hard work peddling over 15mph and is a lot slower than my gravel or road bikes through a fast tight double parked section of my commute hence my 20mph hack.

Would sir like a bigger shovel?

I derestricted one of mine for a particular ride. I could get it up to 35mph on the flat and burnt through my battery in 8 miles

If the OP is in Germany do they not have the speedpedelec class? They do in some European countries

Ebikes are limited to 250 watts

My sister, a middle aged woman with dodgy hips who doesn't drive, has a Raleigh ebike she uses for the stuff most people drive cars for: commuting, shopping trips, visiting friends, going for a pub lunch on nice days. She loves the freedom her ebike gives her, and has no interest in hacking it or taking the piss. She did >3000km on it last year, more than many of you do on your stupidly expensive plastic dandyhorses. I'm a big fan of ebikes for this. People like the OP are going to wreck it for reasonable, considerate human beings like my sister. Selfish mother****ers.

I’ve posted this before,
I have an ebike, i had it hacked, it was fun for a few rides, but (and its a big but)
It genuinely doesn’t improve the bike.
It doesn’t improve the ride.
It goes through the battery like nobody’s business.
Once you start to go past 20mph or so, you can really start to feel the limitations of the suspension and brakes.
There’s a world of difference between a racing snake doing 20mph, and a 20stone biffer (me)
Cruising at the same speed.
I would be against the limiter being set any higher than it already is.
I’ve tried it, it’s not any better.

My sister, a middle aged woman with dodgy hips who doesn’t drive, has a Raleigh ebike she uses for the stuff most people drive cars for: commuting, shopping trips, visiting friends, going for a pub lunch on nice days. She loves the freedom her ebike gives her, and has no interest in hacking it or taking the piss. She did >3000km on it last year, more than many of you do on your stupidly expensive plastic dandyhorses. I’m a big fan of ebikes for this. People like the OP are going to wreck it for reasonable, considerate human beings like my sister. Selfish ****.

She would have more time with friends if she had 20mph assistance. I can lend her my bike if you want?

She would have more time with friends if she had 20mph assistance. I can lend her my bike if you want?

Would she ? After she got it into a situation where she could legally ride a hacked up ebike she probably be better off sticking to the legal 15.5mph.

Ebikes are limited to 250 watts

No they aren't.

yes they are - check the legislation. 250 w continuous output.

Could this be a trojan horse by the anti-cycling lobby?

Get lots of inexperienced cyclists riding around at 20mph, quite quickly get a load of injuries of both cyclists and pedestrians.

Solution? A test, license and registration plate for *all* bikes.

Didn't realise that until recently you couldn't ride them in Northern Ireland without insurance etc. They didn't adopt the UK legislation.

Personally I don't have an issue with the current boundary between electric bikes and S-pedelecs. Just odd we used kph rather than mph in UK legislation.

Out of interest had a look at some S-pedelecs. Would be very interested in what happens when you turn up at you local MOT testing centre with one! Some of the brakes are interesting - have switches for brake lights and they cut the motor when you put on the brakes.

https://twitter.com/NicholaMallon/status/1260162770177265665?s=20

They didn’t adopt the UK GB legislation

FTFY

Just odd we used kph rather than mph in UK legislation.

Maybe because the metric system is the legal system of measurement in the UK?

Could this be a trojan horse by the anti-cycling lobby?

Get lots of inexperienced cyclists riding around at 20mph, quite quickly get a load of injuries of both cyclists and pedestrians.

Solution? A test, license and registration plate for *all* bikes.

Funnily enough, my 17 year old made that point when we were talking about it

Solution? A test, license and registration plate for *all* bikes.

It has certainly worked for cars, which are now totally accident free.

E bikes are great my 75 year old mother inlaw has replaced quite a number of car trips with hers.It's been a very positive thing to get her back out on two wheels, But it's the pilot in control and how it's ridden. You can legislate for stupidity and by keeping the limit at 15 MPH it keeps the none thinking from causing more carnage. Judging how may people think is fine to hustle my ten year old daughter on a blue route whilst shredding on a electric mopeds is quite amazing, Assist should be no more than 10 MPH in a blue route situation. It really has taken the pleasure out of going for a ride with my daughter as the number of close silly passes is quite alarming.

Good to see the petition has only reached just over a quarter of the way to 10k signatures...hopefully it'll fall way short and save some daft arguments for and against.

I've ridden in the bike lanes in Amsterdam where they allow mopeds in them and found that horrible (and my wife who's a lot less experience on a bike than me really hated it so we ended up locking the bikes up and walking instead). So I'd very much be against this unless the bikes were registered, insured and ridden on-road rather than in the bike lanes.

I think the solution is to improve the technology so that ebike motors are less draggy once disengaged so the rider can push on past 15.5mph under 100% human power input to their heart's content.

100% would not support this petition - 15.5mph is plenty and is a good speed where the current legislation (no licence, no mot, no insurance (though this is for fools)) has a chance of being maintained.

99% of commuters and recreational cyclists are totally fine with that speed. If that's not you buy an electric moped and a licence. Don't attempt to ruin it for the majority.

I was passed on my faux-commute (along a Tarmaced bridleway) yesterday by a fat knacker on an old MTB with a derestricted conversion kit going at a fair lick, must have been pushing 25mph; I wouldn't have liked to see him have to stop quick-sharp!

I’ve ridden in the bike lanes in Amsterdam where they allow mopeds in them and found that horrible

I'm pretty sure it's not allowed, just ****s not following rule 1.

I’m pretty sure it’s not allowed, just **** not following rule 1.

They are allowed in a lot of the bike lanes sadly - some peds limited to 30mph and some only allow peds limited to 20mph (and folks don't need to wear helmets on those). Lots of people ignoring the rules as well though.

100% would not support this petition – 15.5mph is plenty and is a good speed where the current legislation (no licence, no mot, no insurance (though this is for fools)) has a chance of being maintained.

99% of commuters and recreational cyclists are totally fine with that speed. If that’s not you buy an electric moped and a licence. Don’t attempt to ruin it for the majority.

i agree, especially for urban commuting with large numbers of other cyclists using the same infrastructure. unlike cars there is no way of enforcing or having speed limits unless you go down the camera and registration route. and even then as cars and motorists have shown they ignore them.

15mph is fine when the average urban commuting speed is 13mph, if you want to go faster then pedal harder.

They are allowed in a lot of the bike lanes sadly

I don't know the history, so I'm guessing a bit here. But I imagine it goes back to the days of when mopeds had pedals, the type of which are still relatively common in some parts on the continent.

Which is pertinent to this topic since that's exactly where we're at now. Power assisted bicycles are nothing new.

Definitely the cut out limit needs to be changed. 15.5mph is a bit lame. Just because you can travel at full speed doesn't mean you do all the time. The sustrans lanes round my end are always full of walkers and dogs, so you just slow up. On the road its a different matter. Signed

Is there a counter-petition?

If you want an ebike that can do 30mph assisted then what you really want is an electric motorbike, which already exist.

I'm not sure anyone is asking for 30 mph.

20 mph would be enough for me.

15.5mph is plenty and is a good speed where the current legislation (no licence, no mot, no insurance

So I should get a licence, mot, and insurance if I take my non-e-bike past 15.5 mph?

If it's unassisted, yes.

I've never understood why ebikes don't have a drop in power as you get faster? I'd like the limit to be 20mph but so that over 15mph the assist would drop to the lowest setting, eco or whatever, and then cut off at 20mph,no one really needs more than 20mph but to get a sudden cut off at a lower speed then most people can do on a normal bike seems odd. Surely it would be easy to set up the firmware to work like this as we can manually adjust the power anyway and the limit is governed by speed. Idiots ride normal bikes too!

Reading these comments it seems like people just want to go fast without having to put the work in. If you want to go faster just spin those legs more. It's pedal assist not pedal for you. If you want to go faster just get a motorbike.

Nice to see the same old tired anti eBike comments coming out. Yawn.

There is a feeling amongst eMTBers that 15.5mph is too slow and ruins the flow of decent single track. They claim they can go faster on their lighter clockwork bikes. They consider that their only current option is to derestrict the bike which with current technology generally means doubling the speed that assist is available. Most are also in agreement that a small increase to 20mph would make all the difference.
I don’t agree with any of this and think they need to find some better trails to ride. For example, in the Forest of Dean I know of only one trail where a higher assist limit would help me; Countdown. I don’t notice the limit on any of the other trails I ride there. I haven’t chipped my eBike and don’t intend to. I don’t ride the marked trail centre stuff often either, but when I do I, and everyone I ride with, is courteous to non eBikers, especially kids but I do accept that dicks will be dicks.

The chances that the majority of signees will actually commute on their eBikes is probably quite small.

Apparently a 30mph moped isn't safe, but a 15.5mph commuter on the same road is?....

The poll was started by one of the above group, not a commuter.

I agree @Doomanic. I've never had an issue with the current assist limit, but it being 15.5mph (25kph) suggests it was adopted without too much thought in the UK, and I would be surprised if 4.5mph is going to result in some of the carnage described above. Interesting though that in the US where the limit is 500W/20mph friends are getting fed up because many of the shared trails are banning them. I assume because the trail conflict is too great?

Apparently a 30mph moped isn’t safe, but a 15.5mph commuter on the same road is?…

Do you see many mopeds on shared use paths ?

As I said the mechanism to have an electric moped on the road exists you just cannot have your cake and eat it so it restricts you to the roads - shared use paths and many trails (most of Scotland where we don't have *off road roads* would be out of order.

'Trail use' - however you define that exactly - isn't relevant for your average commuter who may use a combination of public roads, dedicated cycle lanes, bridleways and combined use paths.

There is definitely a conversation to be had about what performance parameters are appropriate for defining a restricted e-bike. The current 15.5 mph limit seems to have been arrived at quite arbitrarily.

There is already enough friction over inconsiderate cyclists on shared use paths (regardless of motive power) without giving the anti cycling lobby more ammunition.

I've had near misses from oblivious e-bikers both on trails (slog uphill at Llandegla where one was slaloming round everyone) and when on a shared path with my daughter (suddenly finding someone zipping between us) and IMO it's only a matter of time before someone is seriously injured or killed by one given the weight of them. More speed is not the answer, 15.5mph is plenty fast enough for assistance.

There is a feeling amongst eMTBers that 15.5mph is too slow and ruins the flow of decent single track. They claim they can go faster on their lighter clockwork bikes.

If you can go 15.5mph on singletrack then their singletrack is crap or not singletrack.
If you go to 20mph then someone will want 25mph.
Plus as said above, there's nothing stopping you going at 25mph, just pedal quicker.

IMO it’s only a matter of time before someone is seriously injured or killed by one given the weight of them

assume you mean the weight of the stereotypical user, becasue a few extra kilos on the bike is going to make sod all difference in a cyclist to pedestrian impact.

The current 15.5 mph limit seems to have been arrived at quite arbitrarily.

Something I realised today, it would be a PITA if we had different rules to the EU. You'd end up with a bike that you couldn't legally ride on holiday in France for example.

The current 15.5 mph limit seems to have been arrived at quite arbitrarily.

I don't think it's arbitrary. It's about the speed that many people on bicycles will travel at until they get to a hill. I don't think the original intention was to enable people to ride faster, it was to enable them to ride at the same speed uphill as they would on the flat. So brakes, etc, don't need any improvement. Actual cyclists (so the assumption goes) rather than just people on bikes, will ride faster than 15.5mph but they did that before eBikes and will know about bikes and know whether they need to improve their brakes for the riding they do (as many people here actually do).

I’ve signed it and I don’t even have an ebike. I’ve not seen many people get hit by bikes full stop.

Plus whenever the topic of motorbikes speeding comes up everyone says it’s safe and they are not the problem.

I’ve ridden in the bike lanes in Amsterdam where they allow mopeds in them and found that horrible (and my wife who’s a lot less experience on a bike than me really hated it so we ended up locking the bikes up and walking instead). So I’d very much be against this unless the bikes were registered, insured and ridden on-road rather than in the bike lanes.

Alternatively, my wife (who's only been biking for a couple of years now) absolutely loved cycling in Holland, and if you asked her she probably doesn't even recall mopeds, petrol or electric, in the same space as us (they were!)

Even on the 3 occasions we left The Hague during rush hour, it all just worked.

Folk always cite non cyclists, councils, government etc as reasons we can't be like the Dutch infrastructure-wise, but even some cyclists here are so ingrained in how we've always done it, they're as much of an issue.