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There's a small wood locally that the landowner's caretaker gave us permission to build and ride in many years ago. Most of the original crew have since "grown up" and do boring things not involving bikes. New individuals and groups of riders come down to ride and build new stuff now and again, that's cool, it just adds to the place even if it's not very well done. I don't even know them all, I'm sure there are several I've never met but as I say, it's cool.
But, when we've put in the effort to plot a trail, clear the brambles, pull up the roots and do the heavy, monotonous work some turd then comes along and changes it. Usually for the worse. Taking out rocks and roots, smoothing bumps and putting in unnecessary berms to make an already fairly featureless bit of ground marble smooth. The woods are short top to bottom but wide so there's plenty of unused ground they could use if a BMX track is what they want.
Am I being overly possessive or am I right to say that they should they be making their own trails from scratch?
Am I being overly possessive
Yes. Trails evolve.
If you put the effort in originally to get permission and then do all the digging, then it's understandable you are put out. However the changes are probably done by some enthusiastic youngsters, personally I would try to engage with them, as you point out there's space for both types of trails and getting them on your side is beneficial for both of you surely?
Summer holidays isn't it? That time of year when badly placed poorly built "features" appear on trails that didn't need them.
Hmmm, yes I can see that. I'd much rather work together definitely. But that takes a bit of mutual respect. Something that people who take the hard work of others for granted don't strike me as having.
As I say I don't know how many different people/groups go down there. Not enough to regularly run into each other at least. If I can find out who's doing it I will talk to them, I'm certainly not going to kick off about some dirt.
Summer holidays isn't it?
Aha, yes I suppose it is.
If I could train some eager little new-trail-building minions my master plan may finally come to fruition, wooo ha ha ha etc..
Official trails built with permission, then should only be modified / maintained by the trail builders/team. But then that would be in trail centres etc.
Anything else is trail evolution. If they build crap, just change it again.
Still waiting for the obsession with gap jumps to die down in Surrey Hills. At present it seems every trail, even if it was a nice flowing swoopy fast trail suitable for all, needs an awesome wicked big gap jump right in the main line, and fill it with sharp pointy things, then leave the spoil on the side where you could have at least done a chicken run. 🙄
Problem is the crap and especially dangerous changes may get the landowner to demolish it all.
Sometimes it's good though. Talking to some trail builders who did some stuff years ago they're pleased that people have taken the trails to new levels.
You don't own the land, you don't own the trails.
Just be thankfull you have somewhere to ride that doesn't cost you anything...
Sorry if it's eldest_oab, he has spent half the summer in some local woods, with trenching tool and some pals...
I wasn't looking for condemnation of anyone who dare dig on a trail I built.
I just wanted to know if it was felt reasonable to ask them to build their own and enjoy the existing ones as they are. As I see it the positives would be numerous; They get just what they to ride trails which are just as they wanted them. The other builders gets to do the same and everyone benefits by there being more trails to ride. More variety and more riding.
I am grateful for the use of the land, I don't see why that means I shouldn't have an opinion on etiquette.
Matt - does that mean there's new trails up Mine wood?
Do tell where!
Matt - does that mean there's new trails up Mine wood?Do tell where!
On that subject, that bomb hole with the 2 exit options, the latter that nearly ends in a fence.....
Wish I'd ridden it in daylight first.... 😆
Most of the original crew have since "grown up" and do boring things not involving bikes
*wonders when I'll grow up, Bruce aged 52 yrs and 5 months
The thing that pisses me off is when a trail that's maybe ten or fifteen years old suddenly becomes someone else property because they built a dodgy (usually gap) jump on it.
I think that it's an incredibly rude thing to do . If people want something different to what is already there then they should build their own trail or at the very least find out who built the trail and ask permission to change anything . I have built lots of trails and would be outraged if anybody adjusted them without first asking me .
. Except for loads of time spent building the trailsYou don't own the land, you don't own the trails.
Just be thankfull you have somewhere to ride that doesn't cost you anything...
Except for loads of time spent building the trails
They are still not on "your" land so you don't own them.
If you want to get all possessive build trails on your own fenced off land. 😉
Wasn't aware of any other exit to the bombhole Iain! Although i was well warned before my first run.
Cmon Matt, still waiting!
sorry you are arguing against something that I haven't said .Except for loads of time spent building the trailsThey are still not on "your" land so you don't own them.
If you want to get all possessive build trails on your own fenced off land.
sorry you are arguing
No I'm not but I'll leave you to it...
Ok , what else would you like me to not say ?
bruneep - Member
Most of the original crew have since "grown up" and do boring things not involving bikes
*wonders when I'll grow up, Bruce aged 52 yrs and 5 months
Likewise lol, Bruce aged 52 yrs and 3 months!.
They are still not on "your" land so you don't own them.
If you want to get all possessive build trails on your own fenced off land.
In the title I used parenthesizes to show that I didn't mean "your" in a literal way, i.e denoting legal ownership. What are you using them for? Genuine question, not being a grammar pedant.
People here are talking about having a little respect for others hard work, not actual ownership. You appear so intent on having arguments rather than a debate that you don't even read posts properly.
Jesus you two, build a berm big enough for you to go and role around behind together for a bit in private.
About a year ago I moved to a new area with some woods that have a few trails. A lot were just tired from no use. Spent a good bit of time rebuilding features/jumps/landings. More maintenance than altering.
If you are talking about stinchcombe then Sorry!
Have you thought about forming a trails group on Facebook or something?
Matt, he was involved in the 'development' near Comrie, was he? If so, he made a fantastic build on that gang hut and the basketball court was the icing on the cake after seeing the target range!
If it's obvious that somebody has already put effort into trail-building it's pretty obnoxious for newbies to rock up and do their own thing without attempting to contact the established group. But if it's all overgrown, that's a different matter.
The problem with telling newbies to go build their own trail is it leads to trails being cut everywhere, which rightly is going to upset the landowners and other people who visit the woods.
Am I alone in find the whole concept of building trails bewildering? If its your land or you have the landowners permission then maybe its OK but to me the whole concept is vandalism
Am I alone in find the whole concept of building trails bewildering?
Nope.
you missed the Derbyshire county council thread didn't, you..... 🙂
mickmcd - Memberyou missed the Derbyshire county council thread didn't, you.....
Yes - was it an interesting debate? Linky?
Ah that one - I did see it. Ta.
I just wanted to know if it was felt reasonable to ask them to build their own and enjoy the existing ones as they are. As I see it the positives would be numerous; They get just what they to ride trails which are just as they wanted them. The other builders gets to do the same and everyone benefits by there being more trails to ride. More variety and more riding.
You're thinking too much. The people that come along and just change trails that are obviously being maintained by someone else don't think at all. I'd definitely try and talk to them if you can, but be prepared to be ignored. It sucks, but it's par for the course. I've had 4 months of digging over winter at a set of BMX trails destroyed in the first two days of half term by kids who knocked down the properly built doubles to make one random amorphous mound of dirt. Gave up digging for a while after that.
I'd much rather work together definitely. But that takes a bit of mutual respect. Something that people who take the hard work of others for granted don't strike me as having.
Have you met the kids in question? They may not think of themselves as disrespecting your hard work, more as contributing to it / collaborating to build something awesomer. Worth looking on the bright side...
It annoys me a bit when someone alters the "main line" when there's a perfectly well used chicken run - although every time this has happened locally it's been done so poorly it's only been there one or two rides.
Gap jumps are a bit rude on an existing trail, for obvious reasons - especially if they have a rubbish take-off. They're also liable to get landowners worrying about liability.
Just had this on one of my local trails.
I don't have a problem with folks building etc as all trails are 'organic' and change over time, but it's annoying when they:
1) Widen and open up the entrance massively - so advertising the trail to everyone! (this particular trail has been contentious in the past with people blocking the entrance with branches and sabotaging the lower section with glass etc)
2) Digging to actively block off the existing line - to me this is just lacking in consideration. By all means dig and develop new stuff, but don't be a dick and just block off something that's clearly in use by others.
Trying to find out who the culprits are so I can have a quiet word.