Pedals... who's gone Flats to cleats ?

I've done it, haven't ridden anything 'really' techy yet but all good so far. And it's a massive help for bike control, lifting and placing the back wheel, bunny hops etc. Also no having to try and reposition my foot on the pedal if I end up riding on my heel or something. Although, I've not yet got to the point of being able to clip in straight away every time.

I still have my flats and will use them for rides where there's either a lot of exposure and/or steep tight switchbacks.

So I always rode with flats, mainly as my bikes were both MTB. After getting my first Diverge, I decided to give SPDs a go on that bike and then put SPDs on my HT too - probaly spent 4 years with this set up, but FS was always on flats**. Caveat - SPDs were never used for anything remotely gnarr or technical. Experimenting again, I put road pedals on my new Diverge as it was mainly doing tarmac miles; the back to SPDs; and now...back to flats. My knees have thanked me, but...I'm about to test out SPDs again on the Diverge as I'm doing much more off-road on it now so wanted to see what if any difference there is.

*and always will be as I have zero balance, technique or skill whatsoever so not being attached to the bike each time I fall off is a blessing 😂

EDIT - 1 other thing I found was that i tended to get painful, numb 'lumps' directly where my feet were positioned over the pedal - and I'd checked that my shoes/cleats were lined up with the axle etc. I don't get this ever with flats.

I did. After years on flats (mostly V8s), I switched to SPDs for my road bike and then to my commuter and then to my Stumpy. I'm now SPD-SL for road with the disco-slippers and a normal, ok, "normal" SPD shoe for trail and town. It seems very odd when I borrow a bike that has flats now. I don't like it. My feet don't feel connected to the bike and small bumps (if I am not expecting them) make me feel disconnected from the process.

Commuting in snow and ice through town with them is a challenge, I need to think way further ahead and cycle very defensively, but in summer they are much better.

The only problem is having to cart another pair of shoes around for when I get to the place I am going. At least my old job had a locker I could abandon/store/hide stuff in.

I chop and change.

depends on the ride. To be honest it also depends how much dabbing/walking im anticipating!
hike-a-bike in disco slippers is no fun and wrecks your shoes, though now a days i run more "all round" trainer type shoes.
If its looking steep or tech i would be putting the flat pedals on. If its more of an XC day with a good amount of time sat in the saddle then clips makes more sense.

Of course there is a massive overlap here. You can ride XC in flats easily enough, and you can ride the techy stuff clipped in and in some ways its better, as it forces you to not keep dabbing, but to keep your feet up and ride it.

I guess the main major factor is my cleats are sat under the balls of my feet, so on longer DH days, your calves get hammered from holding your feet up, and you can drop your heels in the steepest stuff as easily as you can when you can shift the pedal axel under your instep

I did at Christmas, got a pair of Hope Unions.

Mainly as it suits the type of riding i'm mainly doing, less gnarl.

We're off to Wales soon, not sure yet whether I'll play safe and go flats.

No regrets on my part.

I switched to cleats years ago and have never looked back - done all the main UK trail centres along with some very technical European trips with them – in fact, I feel safer with them than on flats (once I got over the initial nerves).

Tried it several times and really struggle. I've no problem lifting and placing the rear on flats, but I actually really struggle on SPDs!
I ride SPDs on my road bike with no issues though

I'm wondering if it's due to foot position, and if I should try some shoes that allow the cleats to be placed further back.

I chop and change (not as much as I used to) In techie stuff I find the reassurance of being "at one" with the bike a lot safer than flats. I can very precisely control where the back of the bike is - I'm sure folks on flats can do this also, I'm just not skilled enough to do it. I don't think it makes much of a difference on power delivery. I find climbing techy stuff is easier, again I'm sure there are flats riders who have no issues,  I don't get as many pedal strikes as they're generally smaller pedals than flats.

Shoes nowadays have much longer cleat slots, this has made a big difference for me in terms of comfort and control. I can put the cleat much nearer the middle of my foot rather than under the ball, which I found uncomfy and I think lots of others do as well.

I can put the cleat much nearer the middle of my foot rather than under the ball, which I found uncomfy and I think lots of other do as well.

This will definitely be part of my next round of experimentation!

I flit back and forth depending on how I feel. Currently on flats on my FS and SPDs on my HT.

I swapped pretty much overnight a few years back - could no longer keep my feet on the pedals in flats so didn't have much choice. I find them fine, on gnarlier stuff you've got to commit regardless of what pedals you're on anyway. I do "spd dump" a lot going uphill though, but that's just me...

After 10 years of MTB'ing on flats I decided to try SPD's when I first got a gravel bike a couple of years ago. They are fine on the gravel bike, but I still wouldn't put them on a MTB in a million years.

Yep, I spent a summer in Whistler about 6 years ago forcing myself to ride clipped in, and never really broke the back of it, went back to flats & was instantly more comfortable.

Last year I made a concerted effort to spend all year on clips, on all of my bikes & I was comfortable by the end of things, but still never really ‘got it’. The only point I noticed a bit of a difference was on super rough, fast trails - and that was mostly due to me being lazy & not dropping my heels.

I’m not an XC racer, so I don’t care for the few % of extra efficiency they give & I think it’s well proven enough now that you can run flats or clips in most gravity disciplines & be one of the fastest riders in the world, so just ride whatever is more natural & comfortable. Being on one or the other doesn’t magically bring new skills or speed, but being clipped does mask a whole lot of bad technique (heels down, picking the bike up, etc).

I went back to flats, because I actually think less about foot related things when I’m riding, so I can focus on that instead.

Interesting thoughts... some slihgtly surprising, but not a million miles away from some of my own experiences when i've tried swapping (although not as much as some tried)

i put spd's on around crimbo. Lasted 3 rides. Back to flats.

But i intend on getting an XC bike this year and will ride clips on that. And i have clips on my commuter bike.

I think maybe if the ground wasnt so sloppy when i tried, it may have been a different outcome. Summer may have been a better time of year to ease myself into it. i just always had in the back of my head the worry of not being able to get a foot out on slippery root or corners etc. Phycological barriers probably more than actual physical!

Been at them for about a year now, using wide spindle Mallet E and five ten Kestrels in all places and situations with equal mediocrity! I switched back for a few weeks over winter just to revise my technique and yes, it does make you a tad lazy when hopping over obstacles, but nothing that can't be retrained.
The best difference for me has been at speed on rough terrain; my feet are firmly planted where they ought to be. That's a good enough reason alone for me.

but being clipped does mask a whole lot of bad technique (heels down, picking the bike up, etc).

It's not bad, it's just a different way to achieve the same thing. There's no right or wrong here, there's just whatever feels more comfortable. Labelling things as "bad" because you do it differently doesn't really help. If someone rides clipped in and they use that to pick up the back of the bike makes zero difference to some-one using the scoop method on flats, especially more so if they have a settled view on which ever pedal they prefer.

Sorry reading that back it sounds like a polemic, but I though we were past this by now.

Have chopped and changed but mostly on clips at the mo. Partly because LLS bikes are so stable that I need to do far fewer last second saves than I would on older geometry bikes; partly I ride a lot of rocks so its more secure - esp on a hardtail; partly its more instinctive to move the back end around in clips; partly I was on toeclips within a couple of months of learning to ride a bike (age 19), so being permanently attached has always been part of how I rode.

That said, its good to swap to the other flavour periodically to give your technique a kick up the arse.

Did about 2 years on flats. Now 3 or 4 years into spds for everything, much prefer it. If I ride a bike with flats now it feels so disconnected and scary, like I've just hopped in the car with no seatbelt and done 80mph. Keep meaning to give flats anothrt go because 'skills' but cba swapping pedals all the time based on the ride, I think I need another bike...

I think I need another bike…

There is no think, only know 😉

For years I ran flats until I had a nasty crash and stitched/superglued/taped by shin back together and decided to give cleats ago. After a little while I got into it and then was a convert. Loved the slight extra power available, no feet jumping off pedals and the fact I knew my shins were safe. Didn't bother looking at flats again.

Fast forward 5 years I borrowed a mates bike with flats. I used his shoes, 5:10s, too as I had nothing suitable. I rode 417 for the day. I didn't realise how floaty and unsecure the clips were! A good 'sticky' flat pedal with a good shoe was amazing. Felt secure, planted without the need to worry about clipping in and out.

Promptly bought flats for all my bikes and a few pairs of shoes and not looked back. I've tried clips now and again to check but keep going back to a well sorted flat pedal and shoe. Probably been 6 years now? I've ridden more aggressive stuff in those last 6 years and have yet (touch wood, cross fingers) not had a bad pedal slip.

It’s not bad, it’s just a different way to achieve the same thing. There’s no right or wrong here, there’s just whatever feels more comfortable. Labelling things as “bad” because you do it differently doesn’t really help. If someone rides clipped in and they use that to pick up the back of the bike makes zero difference to some-one using the scoop method on flats, especially more so if they have a settled view on which ever pedal they prefer.

It's 'bad' in terms of if you do it in purely the laziest way you're always going to be limited to getting the bike 6" off the ground before it hits your nuts. Whereas the 'proper' way is essentially only limited by how high you can jump yourself.

Swings and roundabouts. I find some bikes just don't suit SPD's. And on steep trails with tight corners I quite like being able to chuck my inside foot out, whereas SPD's you're stuck in a compromise between making the decision to dab early, committing to it, and then having to clip in on the other side or ride the next section with an uncomfortable out of position, grip less foot.

I've got flats on the SS at the moment as I couldn't get on with SPD's on it. Yet every other SS I've ever had has been SPD's.

Tunnel Hill is frustrating on flats, yet Swinley which is far less technical is good on either.

Afan, the descents back down to the ponds would have (again IMO) been a lot less fun picking a way through the rocky corners clipped in rather than dab hard and feel the bike whip round the outside unweighted.

I'm jealous of people who can ride clipped in flat out without ever dabbing. 99% of people slow down for a technical corner and take it sensibly, then every so often you see someone absolutely commit to it and think if there was even the slightest slip-up they're going to be on the deck.

As for 'feeling secure', you get used to either. A good set of flats and shoes you don't move around at all, it's as secure as anything. SPD's 'float', on the XC variety completely unimpeded, you can't bounce off them, but your foot's free to move in a circle around the cleat.

Yep, probably close to 25 years ago. SPDs on MTB and gravel bike, SPD-R and then SPD-SL on road bike. At one point I had a racy hardtail I rode with SPD-R carbon race shoes and pedals to try to be that smidge faster.

My wife did because she found that she kept getting her feet bounced off the pedals (even with 5Tens and good pedals). She hasn’t looked back in 10 years.
She found it helped her keep her feet on the pedals, commit to things more, helped with the uphill pedalling as well. She still hits jumps, drops, roots and tech stuff, only now her feet stay on. As well as being able to literally pick her bike up and move it around in the air and bunny hop bigger.

A few years later after constant nagging from her and friends I switched to SPDs in Chatel (not the best place for a first run) and after crashing on the first berm due to not committing I did fine. I then kept them on for just over a year as I felt that was the only way to give them a proper go. I really enjoyed it and didn’t really have any problems (apart from the odd comedy dismount when I forgot to unclip), even in techy gnar, but then I’ve never been one to put my feet down much, even with flats.

I’ve gone back to flats since then because after fairly thorough back to back testing and timing it didn’t make me any faster or slower (and flat shoes were more comfy).

I do still think that you need to commit for a decent amount of time to fully see the benefits. I was riding 2-3 days a week every week for a year and like I said I liked them, but didn’t really see any advantages for myself.

Quite a few of my friends have switched to clips and stayed that way as well.

And you might as well get your kit as similar to Weeksy Jnr’s as you can.

I've never got on with flats no matter how I tried and ride clips, including messing about in the past DH riding also a few years ago three weeks in and around Whistler and all of the UK stuff and Spain.

My wife got some Shimano shoes and we used a dremmel to lengthen the cleat slots further back (as per Fabian Barel’s recommendations) to better mimic flat shoe position and that helped her as well. We both found SPD shoes to be way too tippy toe (even the ones that claim to be further back).
Fabian Barel says do this one trick

I tend to switch between the 2 depending on bike and what I’m riding - and my mood.

At the moment the hardtail has horizon spds on it that I use with Shimano AM7 shoes. They work really nicely and have a platform with pins in case you unclip and don’t manage to coil back in straight away.

Flats on the full suss bike most of the time. On stuff like bpw I switch to clips as it gives you that bit more security over fast rocky stuff and I tend to get sore ankles on that type of thing otherwise.

I do think clips make you lazy on technique for stuff like bunny hopping and jumping so I personally wouldn’t switch to them full time. I also prefer not being clipped to the bike on the steepest tech off piste stuff I do.

Probably not relevant for you but I ride spd-sl on my road bike - even on the turbo trainer now I’ve got my pedal / shoe issues seemingly sorted out. Hate spd-sls for getting clipped back into pulling away from traffic lights in traffic etc but they do feel nice and secure / stuff once pedalling - in a way that mtb spds don’t quite manage to replicate. Maybe it’s less float / rotation perhaps.

How’s this for some mind games.

I’ve been on spd’s for 30 years and periodically try flats just to see how they feel, or in the past when I’ve fancied messing about trying wheelies and manuals etc.

The biggest problem I had with flats was getting my feet off in a hurry. Clearly a crash or disaster would have been no problem as my feet were not attached to anything but, for a general stop or sudden slow, my Specialized 2fo shoe stayed very stuck to the vault pedal - no matter how much I instinctively twisted my ankle. 😂😂

Muscle memory is a git !

Really interesting thread. I had flats on my MTB (have done since a dabble with power grips in the early 90s).

Road bike spd SL.

I’m on my third gravel bike, all with flats and this one is the first with 700c wheels and that’s felt wrong somehow (not based solely on wheel size but the feel of the bike) plus I have had knee issues that seem less painful when clipped in. Moved to spd on it 2 weeks ago and it’s been so much better for me.

So much so I’m super tempted with a pair for the MTB (but I’ve just recently bought a new pair of RC boots 🤔)

Like others on the thread went clipless years ago (2000?) having been used to toe straps on my road bike. It's now second nature. When I did try flats when I was Bromptoning I nearly killed myself going for a fast start on the Mall. Put m540s on it and all was right with the world again.
Just can't be bothered with the better or not discussion. I enjoy my riding with clips, and don't want to relearn (old dog)

Bit of both. I tend to ride flats on the easy mellow stuff, and on my gravel bike. Then clips when it's getting rockier and steeper.

Probably seems very backwards. But I had a bit of a revelation changing to clips years ago and can't switch fully back. I've tried a few times so I don't have to have as many shoes.

I find bunny hops and jumps easier on flats though for some reason.

Try it. If you don’t like it Jnr’s feet will grown and he can have your shoes.

I've ridden flats since I started mountain biking decades ago, so about 10 years ago I decided I should try clips , it was bloody awful, I have never had so many massive crashes, I perservered for 6 months before giving up, for me it wasnt worth it.

Clips were fine on relatively tame stuff (and I do use them on the road bike obvs) , but on techie/steep stuff I really couldnt get on with them. This is obviously down to my lack of skills on a bike as all the fastest people I have ridden with use clips and dont have the issues I did, but they're definitely not for me.

Another here that chops and changes each ride depending on which bike/where/who with/weather etc. Getting happy with using both is the true zen.