[Closed] Pedaling problem after changing chain

The cassette is worn

Check the quick link is done up properly, but it does sound like a worn cassette. Is it a mtb or road bike, and how many miles have you done on it?

It's a MTB, I have about 4500km on it. I don't think the cassete can be worn. It's the first time I have to replace the chain, and as far as I know a cassette lasts more chains, if you change them when you should.

Errrrrr!!!

The cassette is worn then!!!!

4.5k!

I finding it difficult to believe that after 4500k the chain was only at 0.6%

Something is wrong with OP's chain checker. Probably more like 2.6% after 4500km.

Varies slightly from person to person, but as a reference, i tend to get ~3000km from a chain on the road bike and ~1000km on the MTB.

I'd stick the old chain back on as after that far on one chain, chainrings are likely toast as well as cassette.

I recently changed my chain and experienced what you are describing. The cassette looked OK but fitting a new one resolved all the chain skipping issues.

Suck it up butter cup and get a new cassette. Or put the old chain back on and ride it into ground.?

Out of interest if you think it's not the cassette then are you thinking the new chain is faulty.?

Not sure how the cassette can't be worn after that!!! It is not something that is visible, it just will be.

Can't wait until summer hols are over

Thanks everyone for chiming in.
The chain checking was accurate, done with accurate ruler. 10 Links(pin to pin) measured 25.55 cm. I also applied pressure on the pedals when measuring.
The chain and drivetrain parts were often cleaned and lubed with Finish line products.

FYI, I rode my old bike, which was an entry level Trek 3700, from 2010 to 2015 without changing the chain, chainrings or cassette(as far as I remember). The chain wasn't slipping, and it shifted gears just fine. I did at least 8000km with it.

Here two pics with the cogs, do they look worn ?:

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Here two pics with the cogs, do they look worn ?:

Yes

+1

Cassette is worn. If I was going to ride 4500km on one chain I'd just leave it on until the whole lot went pop. New chain will just slip whereas the old kit will have all worn together.

I'd probably have gone through 3 chains and be about ready to change the cassette by that kind of mileage.

Cassette is worn, particularly 5th, 6th, 7th. You can see the valley between each tooth is elongated, and the 'climb' up to the next tooth is steeper than the other side, which is a dead giveaway.

Thanks guys. So ok, the cassette is worn.
The bike was working very well before changing the chain, why should I replace the cassette instead of putting back the old chain ? This seems a bit illogical.

I replaced my chain today

You know when you did this? The reason why you did this is the reason why you should just replace the cassette.

Why did you replace the chain?You've got another 4 years to go.

I replaced my chain because it was elongated more than 0.5%, and I didn't want to cause damage to the cassette. I relied on what I've read on every single article on chainge wear. Quoting Sheldown Brown:

[i]If the link pin is up to 25.5 cm all is well.
If the link pin is a little bit past 25.5 cm, you should replace the chain, but the sprockets are probably undamaged.
If the link pin is approaching 25.7 cm,you have left it too long, and the sprockets (at least the favorite ones) will be too badly worn.[/i]

As said previously, 10 links on the old chain measured 25.55cm.

Yes, but the reason why you replace the chain when it is worn is because:
It transmits energy less efficiently
Gear changes tend to get worse
It is more likely tio snap

Just put the old chain back on and run it until stuff stops working.
Not like it's cost you anything other than time as you'll still have the new chain later when you need to replace full drivetrain.

The cassette definitely has signs of wear. At this point, I would put the old chain back on and get another 1k before replacing the chain, cassette and rings.

If you want to measure your chain to assess wear - I'd use a chain checker next time because IME they are easier to use accurately. However, I change chains at 1k regularly and this means I can get 3-4 chains out of a single block and ring(s). It's an approach that's not failed me yet.

If you leave it too long you'll need to replace chainrings too which can get expensive.

I'm calling troll. Probably Chewkw.

Thanks guys. I think I'm gonna put back the old chain and ride till problems show up, then replace everything.
My crankset is Shimano fc m610, is it recommended to buy separate chainrings or replace the entire set(including arms) ?

Eddie baby, could you be more specific ?

if my drive train had done 4500kms I'd be replacing

chain
cassette
chainring(s)
mech wheels
cables (outer and inner)

Measuring pin to pin is pointless I am afraid. Chains don't actually get longer, well not so much that it accounts for the wear anyway - chain stretch, much like cable stretch is a bit of a myth. What actually accounts for the majority of the issues is the rollers getting worn down, which means the distance between them is bigger, hence the wear on the cassette. Your chain might get a bit longer, but the damage is cased by the roller wear. #sorrytobethebringerofbadnews

I should also clarify the pins wear and the pin seats ovalise a little too, but thats really hard to measure.

[img] [/img]
How to measure a chain for wear - as said it's not stretching but wearing out inside where it contacts.
If you didn't change it and avoid snapping it you could probably take it to the grave but now you have changed it you are seeing that it's all worn.

On 4000km on a GX casette and you can see wear on it, it's had 4 chains over that time but still runs OK. Chains are the consumable item here.

benpinnick, I read posts and articles saying that measuring wear with a ruler is the most accurate way, since many gauges also take roller wear into consideration. Also, everyone was saying elongation is the problem and not roller wear.

I'd beg to differ, but you're free to take what advice you want and leave others. Ben runs a bike co and i suspect knows his stuff.

Ultimately, put the old chain back on and run it into the ground, or get a new cassette and be prepared to change the chain more often, it's your call.

(and be ready, you might put a new cassette on and then the next weakest bit will fail which would be chainrings which *might* also be worn too far after 4.5K. Post up a pic and people will happily give an opinion, but the giveaway is 'shark's teeth' profile)
[img] [/img]

And then if cassette and cranks both need doing....... while there's no need to get new cranks your FC M610 is quite a basic one and for the price of cranks you might consider it time to upgrade to a 1X system with a wide ratio cassette which is all anyone really needs nowadays.

Those jockey wheels look amazing for 4,500kms

Show us your chainrings then .......

Proper advice is to change your chain before it's worn - about every 6 months (depends on usage , obv).
Because the cassette wears with the chain.

I've never measured a chain in my life. More likely to change cass & chain after a year. Cos I don't run 11 speed on MTBs my cassettes aren't that expensive. 😉

Put the old chian back on and just run it all into the ground and then replace the chain, cassette and chainrings.
Chains are made of metal and the forces that normal people put through them really isnt enough to physically stretch them.
As Ben says, its the rollers and the pins wearing.

I dump chains at around 0.75% wear, which here in Yorkshire on a mountain bike means around 1000-1500km or thereabouts. Cassettes and chainrings last a goodly amount of time when I stick to this, although obviously they do wear eventually.

Personally, I use a cheap roller gauge for quick checking and a steel ruler for accurate pin-to-pin measurements. Someone in the thread above mentioned that measuring pin to pin doesn't work, but I'm afraid that I must disagree here and when I replace a chain it has physically stretched (i.e. when laid alongside the new one, is physically longer) rather than just containing worn rollers, but not so worn that the new chain doesn't key in ok.

My biggest gripe at the moment is with Shimano XTR jockey wheels which appear to be made of a carefully formulated alloy of window putty and soft, French cheese. I'm sure it's very carefully designed, but they wear down to spikes in no time at all! Not a fan of alloy ones though, because they are just too chattery on the bike.

For the OP, 4500km between chain replacements would, for me at least, certainly require a cassette and probably chainring(s) too.

Eddie baby, could you be more specific ?

Sorry cpper. I was a bit grumpy yesterday.
On the other hand you asked a question and didn't seem to like the responses. You also don't seem to accept the widely held belief that elongation is only a small part of the problem.

As said above choose whatever advice you want.
In fact why not ask for advice from the people who:

make posts and articles saying that measuring wear with a ruler is the most accurate way, since many gauges also take roller wear into consideration. Also, everyone was saying elongation is the problem and not roller wear.

since many gauges also take roller wear into consideration

Thats a fair point to some degree, but the reality is that one won't happen without the other. The chain isn't stretching, really, but it is getting sloppy. The slop in the pin seats means that its changing pitch. The rollers are also wearing, meaning the internal contact area of the chain no loner matches the chainring shape, so you'll be increasing the wear rate on your components, irrespective of whether the chain is getting any longer. Its a mix of all those things, but simply measuring a chain won't tell you the whole story, whereas measuring the roller distances using a chain checker give you a handle on both slop and roller/pin wear both of which are contributing towards your issues you now have.

Personally I don't bother with any of the above. I change my chain every 6 months whatever its condition.

Show us your chainrings then .......

Here is an imgur album of pics with the chainrings and cassette:
[url= http://imgur.com/a/IFSxI ]Pics[/url]
Do the chainrings also look worn to the point of replacing ?

[img] [/img]
getting well worn

Middle chainring is indeed looking quite worn, maybe not to the point of replacement needed, but close.
Outer doesn't look as bad.

Set of 3x9 chainrings on eBay: £20 - seller Rusty_MTB

Although, I would change chain & cassette and if no skips, run em for a bit longer.

Seriously, a good chain is around £12-19 quid....I change mine after roughly 500-650 miles, depending on gloop. That way, the cassette and rings last at least 2000-2500 miles, and it saves dosh in the long run.
As someone up there said, ride the old chain till it doesn't shift anymore, then change the lot and invest in a chain checker and use it!
I've had a couple of shimano chains be fine when I went out for a ride, but be worn beyond the 'happy' place by the time I returned.....KMC are better.

Are you running 3x10?

Can't comment on your chainrings and how worn they are, but if ok I'd just change the chain and cassette at the moment - thats the cheapest option.

If you're not using the full range of gears - granny / outer ring not massively worn and same with the cassette with wear in the middle) then the other option is to change for something like 1x10 using your current shifters / rear mech, binning the front mech and putting a narrow wide front chainring on the middle of your triple chainset. I did this with my last bike when the chainrings died.

Of course a full 1x11 / 1x 12 would be the money no object replacement but that's a lot of money and the bike may not warrant it.

I'm afraid that I must disagree here and when I replace a chain it has physically stretched

The [i]chain[/i] may be longer, but not because the [i]links[/i] have stretched, it's pin, roller and bushing wear.

If you go and measure pin-pin distance on all the outer plates it will be the same as the day the chain was new, and if you were to disassemble the chain and measure the centre-centre distance on the holes* in the inner links it will also be the same, the difference is the wear on mating surfaces of the inner links which means that hole is no longer the same size (or shape, which makes doing * difficult) as it was when new.

The plates don't stretch, but the inner links wear on the mating surfaces (inside of hole where pin goes through) and you also get wear on the face of the pins (and on the rollers). These two areas of wear means you get slop in the inner links, this gives the [i]appearance[/i] that the chain has stretched, but it's just sloppy worn links, not stretched links.

good illustrations here (although for bushed chains, most modern are bushing-less but same principle in terms of wear not stretch):

[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

[url= http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-004/000.html ]more detail[/url]

I dump chains at around 0.75% wear, which here in Yorkshire on a mountain bike means around 1000-1500km or thereabouts. Cassettes and chainrings last a goodly amount of time when I stick to this, although obviously they do wear eventually.

Interesting - I'm also slopping about in Yorkshire mud and have found that if I let it go to 0.75, even if only just, it's Slippy McSlipface and a new cassette time - I've had to start swapping when the 0.5 side of the gauge goes in (smoothly).

Shimano 3 x 10.
EDIT: And 3 x 9 (also Shimano)

Interesting - I'm also slopping about in Yorkshire mud and have found that if I let it go to 0.75, even if only just, it's Slippy McSlipface and a new cassette time - I've had to start swapping when the 0.5 side of the gauge goes in (smoothly).

Note, this is measured pin to pin, rather than with the gauge, so this may also make a difference.

ps. Regarding rollers vs fishplate wear, perhaps my earlier statement wasn't quite accurate enough - when I say I "measure pin to pin" I don't mean literally the distance between two pins, but rather the length of the chain measured over 12" with a steel ruler and then worked out as a percentage stretch. This being the case, I suspect we may be talking about the same thing.

I use all three chainrings, with the bigger one being the most used. I also climb a lot, so need the small one too. In fact, I think the middle chainring is the least used.
I know how chain wear actually works, I've researched about that a while ago. But thanks for the info!

I have now replaced the new chain with the old one, and everything works just fine. I'll use it this way until problems occur. I measured it once again before putting it back on the bike and still got 25.55cm at 10 pins. The new one measures about 25.4cm.

You use the big ring the most?
Either you ride on the road all the time or you're Chris Hoy.

there are a number of suggestions above that when you change to go 1X..

Is there any user experience that says that this extends the life of chain/cassette/chainring? or is the 'advantage' that you only have one chainring to replace?

I would expect that the wider deviation from a straight chainline would wear the chain faster, than you might expect with a properly used 3X setup... just wondering what the real life experience is?

not really noticed any difference in wear rates, can still do 2/3 cassettes per chainring by rotating chains or replacing frequently.

My other hypothesis is that changing gear is bad for chains (vis a vis my singlespeed chain goes on for ever, never broke one, have broken several on geared bikes) as the chain is forced over shifting ramps and often if you're hamfisted like me, under load as well. And of these changes, the front one is the most likely to be messed up. Hence - no front shifts = least likelihood of it wearing or breaking.

That drive train is goosed. I'd run the whole lot into the ground then replace the lot in one go