[Closed] Peaks debut and Ebike first proper day out.

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51182984625_724f89cef8_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51182984625_724f89cef8_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2kYSb9a ]peaks[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr

You've just cemented my thoughts after a very brief ride on one in Wharny - Good for sessioning a few downhill runs in a fixed amount of time but a potential liability on a proper day out. I'll be sticking with my proper bike until my retirement from the sport.
Thanks for the honest write up 👍

Nice loop taking in some of the classic bits of my backyard. You should try and avoid that first section past Ox Stones unless in drought conditions as your photo proves, it’s a bog most of the time and land owners are getting increasingly grumbly about it. We (local fell running club) used to have a race which used it and was banned due to land owner, I’d not want bikers to be the reason for it getting permanently fenced off or similar. It’s lovely in the dry though!

Mate, I've never been to the peaks, I just went where I was told. Even into rock formations!

Sounds like you enjoyed it. Pity about the weather.
Never had a problem with running out of battery.

1. It gives you the fear ! The fear of battery and losing it. In the last 2-3 miles i had 0 battery and had to drag this thing up a rock fest..

Be interested to hear what the distance and height gain were?
We were discussing the balance point beyond which an eeb isn't beneficial anymore. Given that you took it to zero battery it would be great to know how far/ high it was.

Given that you took it to zero battery it would be great to know how far/ high it was.

From that ride profile shot it looks like roughly 3300feet of climb over 35 km

I can get between 3000 and 6000 feet of climb over 20 to 35 miles out of mine, the difference is basically down to how fast I go, which in turn is down to the level of assist I use.

6000 feet, 35 miles at normal bike speeds.

3000 feet, 20 miles going at 2x normal bike speeds

Major U turn there. 😂
Distance and climbing wise did a ride on Tuesday avo that was 20 mile and nearly 1400 meters of climbing and still had 4 out of 10 bars left.
I recon I could get 30 miles/ 2000 meters out of it if I was careful.

Mate, I’ve never been to the peaks, I just went where I was told. Even into rock formations!

I know, wasn’t having a pop, just some local advice on where to avoid when it’s piss wet! If you enjoy the rocky stuff then definitely look at some of the trails on Blacka Moor like Devils Elbow, Piper House and stuff off Totley Moor too. Happy to send some suggestions next time you visit 👍

You just have to ride ebikes differently, they are heavy, they require a bit more to manoeuvre in a few circumstances, that's just due to the weight and balance, i find it weird if i have used the ebike for a few rides in a row, then use the hardtail and move about on that, it's so light you can end up overdoing everything as it feels like the bike weighs nothing.

Never really got the battery tension thing, ran out a couple of times but you get the warnings at 20/10/5% on most, so know when to turn back and when you will need to pedal a bit, on days like yesterday where it's wet and muddy, you know your range will be less, it's not just distance and elevation gained, it's conditions, bike setup and temperature that limit it as well.

Have to admit i much prefer my normal bike for pretty much most things, but an ebike is there to do a job, and for me, with a knackered body it helps do longer rides without the after effects, it allows me to enjoy what i do for more time, you just have to know what you enjoy about an ebike, and what you don't, then focus on the good stuff where possible.

Devils Elbow

Looking at Strava we did certainly some of that trail yesterday

so know when to turn back and when you will need to pedal a bit

Easy to say, hard when you're at the bottom of a mile long rocky hill and no concept of where you are. It's different when you're on home turf, but on an away day, well, I could have been anywhere. It so happened I was in a rock climb followed by knee deep mud fest lol

Looking at Strava we did certainly some of that trail yesterday

Looking at the screen shot, assuming you went clockwise then your description of the steep downhill followed by a steep climb (after a stream crossing with stepping stones) was Devils Elbow. Good isn’t it?! Local trail advocacy group Ride Sheffield do a lot of trail work there so we have them to thank.

I thought modern ebikes had a bit more range than that? Were you on turbo all the way around, or was it a hire with a knackered battery?

I hired a trek rail from biecs brenin a few weeks ago and did the beast, it wasn't a beast on that ebike.

Good, errrrm maybe lol. Some of the downs you're just trying to keep on the bike and not die, but yeah it's fun in a sadistic way.

The one thing yesterday did do was make me feel better about my new Bird frame. I was worried it may not be up for the gnar, but yesterday on a girls frame with rubbish tyres it still are up the stuff.

For info
500w battery
35.42km
802m elevation

I thought modern ebikes had a bit more range than that? Were you on turbo all the way around, or was it a hire with a knackered battery?

It's only a 500w.

I barely used turbo. Mostly in 2/5 with some 3/5

Isn't 500wh still pretty common and standard?

Isn’t 500wh still pretty common and standard?

I thought they were all 620w or so nowdays, certainly all the bikes I was out with were yesterday.

Another irritating thing was engine whine. It's a noisy bugger!

Argee sums it up perfectly for me.

No question I prefer how normal bikes ride, and if I had all the time in the world and my body never got knackered then i'd just ride normal bike, no ebike required.

However in the real world, ebikes are fantastic for squeezing more riding in. That's because
- you can get more miles in in the same time
- you can take different routes (which wouldn't be fun or would be infeasible on a normal bike
- you can do big rides day after day and still be fresh
- oh, and if you're out or the normal bike game for medical reasons (as I am at the moment) you might still be able to get out.

Biggest ever ride I did on mine was about 70km 1500m climbing. Almost all in eco but it was sub zero so affecting battery life. And I'm not light.

500w battery
35.42km
802m elevation

Many thanks. That seems very low, surprised by that.

Obviously it depends how much effort the user puts in. I'm guessing Weeksy put on a fair bit of effort as he normally pedals his bike, but perhaps equally you were buzzing and went for it up the hills to make the most of the novelty factor.

Hmmm, Wonder how long it'll take for the range to improve significantly...

I arranged yesterday’s ride for weeksy to join us, I’ve noted the comment about oxstones and will amend the route from now on. I’m local but more used to green lanes so planning routes from strava segments which isn’t always ideal. There was a bit of lost around longshaw which will get amended as well.
But the ebikes, it is possible to eek the miles out if we went as slow as a normal bike in places, the mud certainly sapped battery and the only normal bikes we saw on climbs were walking. I can only imagine on some climbs ther3s a very small percentage of normal riders able to make them. The same on the slow techy uphill rock bits a normal bike would have to carry in places.
But this isn’t what bike is best as they are both different, all the riders of the ebikes are fairly fit but none would want to do the same ride on their normal bikes it’s just not as much fun for us. That’s as simple as it gets. It was good to let weeksy see that an ebike in the right conditions can give a proper workout but you need to find those conditions if a workout is your reason to ride.

Happy to show you some other local trails @couchy instead of relying on Strava segments, there’s lots which whilst people ride it I’d not bother with personally!

Tuboflard that would be great some time, like the stuff by oxstones and down to devils elbow and then the rockier slow bits across curbar edge etc. But tbh anything that takes me up there I’m happy with as I love the place

Hmmm, Wonder how long it’ll take for the range to improve significantly…

Some already have...

No problem, PM me next time you fancy a spin and can arrange a meet up. I’m 25 mins pedal from Cannings bottom car park so can get out any day after work too.

I have a trek rail 5 with 625 watt battery and the only time I nearly flattened the battery was Glentress red and black which shows on strava as 43km with 1500 metres of climbing (power was tour on most of the way but put in eco for the last couple of km). Also agree with the OPs summary but I am doing bigger loops than I would on my normal bike (not so much time constrained with e bike).

Thanks for the great write up and views, makes interesting reading.
Like a lot now I suspect, I too am e-bike curious.

So far I have surmised that they allow for winch and drop type rides to be enjoyed a bit more, as they offer the suspension, wheels, tyres etc to cope with 'big' riding.

What I have to determine is - do they allow for more XC based riding to become more fun due to longer range of me and do they do so at the cost of taming the trail so it is just distance with no fun.

Suppose what I need is a 120mm travel FS ebike that rides like a 120mm normal bike. Probably the Levo SL or similar. Then I'll get drawn into a daft trail section and it won't cope, so pretty much like normal... lol

Tbh they do tame trails but that just means you search out harder trails. I was on my Bosch with a 625wh battery but I also have a light ebike with a 250w battery, an ezesty. It’s a halfway bike between the two and wouldn’t have made yesterday’s ride at the pace we went. It would though have been quicker than a normal bike. We answered weeksys question of whether they give a work out and that’s a yes, but you need to ride further or faster to achieve that.
It was very interesting seeing someone who is fit and loves his normal bike having fun and trying on an ebike. It did prove an ebike doesn’t do it for you, certainly if riding with other ebikes.

What I have to determine is – do they allow for more XC based riding to become more fun due to longer range of me and do they do so at the cost of taming the trail so it is just distance with no fun.

Having done a local xc ride now and peaks on it I'm 100% sure I don't want or need an ebike for Berkshire rides, it's not for me. I enjoy the silence, tranquility and just pleasure of riding and I'm yet to get that in the rides I've done.

The bike is now clean and lubed, I've fitted a specialized butcher grid 2.3 replacing the 2.65 trail boss that was on it. I've got a 2.3 Goma on the back end which is ok but I may get another Butcher. It'll now go away until June when the lads have a bike park Wales non uplift day planned and I'll take it for the morning and do a couple of afternoon runs on the bird too

The power use/range must be very different between a dry surface and a mud fest ... makes personal comparisons pretty difficult to interpret.

Great part of the world to ride - lucky to get a guided tour 🙂

Yeah as you can see by the bike standing up in its own, at times it was bonkers muddy.
Range I thought was going well as I'd just crossed into 2 dots left after the cafe stop, I was told we only had a couple of miles, but I think we detoured and we had 2 big ups which seemed to wipe the battery out as I was using 3/5 to get up. Next thing I looked and I had a red dot instead of a white one, which I'm guessing isn't ideal lol. I then nursed it, dragged it and manual pedalled a few KM

Range is hugely variable and affected by every factor you can think of. I find the main two are pace and elevation.

Best I managed on my old 500Wh (actually 482Wh) Bosch and Gen 2 motor was 28 miles and 4.5K feet of climbing when riding with the local cycle club, all on normal bikes, so a fairly slow pace. I still had 1 bar (of 5) remaining at the end. Ridden almost entirely in Eco apart from the last climb when my gammy knee started hurting.
Worst was 9.9 miles and 5K feet of climbing in just over an hour when riding flat out in Turbo on my own, sessioning DH trails at FoD.

On my 625Wh Gen 4 (which is definitely more efficient than the older Gen 2) I'm using about 50% battery on the club rides. Riding solo or with other eBikers good conditions will see in excess of 30 miles and 5K feet in EMTB/Turbo with a little bit of power left at the end of the ride. BPW is usually about 30 miles and 5.5k feet of climbing with the battery dying on the last flatish climb to the top of the trails. Again, almost all EMTB with a pretty fast pace.

I haven't ridden a decent normal bike for 3 years now. I suspect the first couple of runs would be effing terrifying! 😀

twonks
Full Member

What I have to determine is – do they allow for more XC based riding to become more fun due to longer range of me and do they do so at the cost of taming the trail so it is just distance with no fun.

Twonks, the best bit for me about an ebike on normal XC stuff is that the uphills become a different challenge, those uphills that on a normal bike are usually a slow slog up now become speedier and you can take more challenging routes and also turn the flats into the same, Cwmcarn is a good one to work this on, with a normal bike up the reds being a challenge to stay on all the way, whilst on the ebike you're just trying bits that you avoided on the normal bike.

As for range, it's the same on an ebike as a normal, you ride through mud and you're losing efficiency, you ride on wet you lose efficiency, anything that will reduce your range on a normal bike does the same, you stick on those full mud tyres and you'll not be getting the same range as on intermediates, you wear full waterproofs and so on and again, you'll not be as efficient and use up more assistance, or your own energy.

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51221822265_07d279aa1d_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51221822265_07d279aa1d_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2m3iedD ]2021-06-02_07-45-47[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr

The rest of yesterday was on this thing once again. Due to the effort of the mornings riding, you just can't keep with the Ebikes on the manaual bikes, so i jumped on the ebike for the rest of the rides. The Liv was sharp and precise, the short wheel base really does help with it's turning and at somewhere like Pines it works really well in terms of handling.
For me though it's let down with various aspects. One being the 15.6mph limit, it's not that i necessarily want MORE... but when you're at places like this, you're bordering on the limit of it all the time, on-off-on-off... Meh.
Second letdown for me is how it feels as you disengage when you stop pedalling, coming into a tight 90s through 2 trees for example, you have to set your feet and the motor disengages with a clunk, then re-engages with a clunk on the next stroke. In isolation that's OK but at Pines it's pretty much constant, clunk, turn, clunk, turn.

It does though eat up the trails with ease... I'm still not convinced i 'get' the power and delivery right, but that's possibly as Couchy was running in derestrict mode so it flatters his uphill speed and makes mine feel slow. But still, i don't feel it 'pulls' as i'd expect it should... Although, seeing the speed we pass manual bikes, i think they'd disagree.

I used only 2/5 of the battery lights, despite running at least 50% of the ride on full power to try and stay with the superbike. Which was pretty good in that context i have to say 🙂

As always, it changes the dynamics of the ride again into a power fest... Which is ok, but i'm still not sold lol. I know, some of you are thinking i'm just saying it or deluded, but i really do prefer the weight, handling and performance of the manual and lighter bikes.

Great pics and honest write up on the experience weeksy.

I've still not ridden an ebike...

Possibly because I'm slightly scared I might like it too much... Also, at least on a normal bike I mainly spanner myself on the downhill sections only rather then the uphills too!lol

Like I said though, fantastic writeup matey.👍

Some good stuff on here, thanks weeksy et al! In a few weeks I'll be ebike only, it's a bit of a punt but I've been holding the urge off for ages now!.

Due to loads of other outdoor hobbies, I really want to concentrate my riding into the stuff I really love, sub 3 hour winch n plummet type stuff, and all my mates have eebs for such riding.

Canny really be arsed with all day epics/death marches now,though I'm really looking forward to turning my local proper mountains from a push into a pedal.

@singlespeedstu I'll be looking for a wee day riding your locals soon, hopefully.

Canny wait.

I'm new to eMTB myself, and dived in at the deep end with a Vitus ESommet. I'd have never bought a full on enduro bike if it had been manual but wanted at least this year on one and it came up available.

I'm (road) bike fit and entering middle age so I don't fit the old or knackered brackets but can relate to your experience Weeksy. On the Vitus, it's running the Shimano EP8 motor which between on and off, the only thing you might notice is the slight whirr. Other than that, you can't feel the transition.

Did some routes around Dalby red and found myself a lot of the time above the limiter but only just as the heavy DD casing tyres and 24kg of bike means an effort to keep it spinning.

On steep uphills though, it excels and clearing section after section means that if a normal route for a less tech rider like me is 7mph AVG, then with eMTB it's 11 mph AVG. I was climbing a beast of an old quarry track the other day and I got to the top with my HR screaming at near maximum but I was climbing it much quicker (still below limiter) than I would have been on a bike.

I think most people who haven't ridden one think they go round with minimum input at the limit all the time. It might on the flat in turbo but to get to the limit on the climbs you still have to be working hard.

For me though it’s let down with various aspects. One being the 15.6mph limit, it’s not that i necessarily want MORE… but when you’re at places like this, you’re bordering on the limit of it all the time, on-off-on-off…

Very true and for me what kinda spoils some trails a bit.
I've only had my eeb for a few weeks but ridden it all over. A lot of trails I ride are steep and technical so there it's absolutely amazing. However, a lot of these trails can start with fairly long sections of mellow gradient. You VERY quickly reach the cut off point and it then becomes like riding in treacle to keep the bike going.

As soon as you get some gradient you're off and the bike feels brilliant but those flatish flowy starts to trails can feel a bit draggy.

I've taken mine for a couple of little xc rides and it's really not where the bikes are best imho. If you've got a lot of level sections, you're always on that limit. Do you rinse yourself trying to get a few extra mph or just chill and sit at 15?
It's not really worth rinsing yourself as the bike feels a real drag.

Other places that limit has sucked is say you have a fast downhill that goes straight into an uphill where normally you'd give it some welly down the hill and whoosh up the other side pedalling like a maniac to eek out as much momentum as you can. Well, on an ebike you try and do that and because you're over the limit it's like putting the brakes on as well as pedalling, right until you drop to 15 again then it's fine.
But you've lost that natural momentum you carry and the exhilaration of the down and up whoosh!

Most of us who have them agree that the American limit of around 20mph would work much better for general trail riding.

Most people would say that's a terrible idea and people would be doing crazy speeds down trails, but in reality, on the flat sections you can go faster on an mtb than an emtb.

It's also just perception I think. Because on an eeb your average speed and flow is higher, when you hit that limit you think that you're going slow. The reality is probably that you're just as quick as you would be on an mtb, it just seems non flowing in comparison.

Some friends compare their Strava times on segments and they're still a little quicker in general on the eeb.
We've all only had them a matter of a few months.

As a very old bloke, older even then the middle aged on this forum, I find the ebike a godsend. My recovery time after a tough ride is measured in weeks not days but I just don't feel as knackered after an ebike ride. I still get out on my normal bikes but don't go as far as I did. The ebike enables me to get some miles in more regularly.
I live near Lady Canning's and can get about 30 miles range if not trying too hard.

@nobeerinthefridge
Give us a shout and I'm sure we can hook up for a ride.

Cheers Stu, will do fella.

As for the comments on the cutting out issue, bear with me as I don't ride with a speedo, but I'm not sure on my Bronson with a 2.6 Mary up front that I hit 15.5mph very often under my own steam anyway? Not really that bothered about hammering fire roads, I generally expend energy on climbs a lot more.

Some other things I'm really looking forward to is techy climbs (especially after watching Tracey Moseley stuff on EMBN) and just a shit load more descending of my local built stuff, which will improve my skills too.

The cutting in and out thing can be a little annoying but only really happens on flat trails where it's kind of pointless riding an eeb anyway.

When I first got my ebike I found that as soon as the motor cut out at 15.5mph it felt like pedalling through treacle, I fairly quickly worked out that it was because I was in too high a gear for the bikes speed without the motor assisting.

On an ebike its really really easy to be in too high a gear than you should be for the speed because the torque of the motor allows you to turn that gear easily enough , but as soon as the motor cuts out, you're on your own and the gear is too high.

The solution is to keep in a lower gear and keep your cadence high, then the transition from help from the motor to no help from the motor is much less stark and treacle like.

or just de-restrict the bike.....

Had to have a swap of a ebike on the last day of a Lakes trip last week, 80 miles and 12,600ft/3840m climbing over 5 days from pretty much nothing over the entire winter - well on the last climb of the last day (a proper push up) my thighs were hurting badly and on the verge of cramping up so one of the group let me swap with his whyte E150...

Jesus Christ.

Some day. Not right now, as I'd need to have one alongside my FS and hardtail, and another 5k+ bike just can't be justified. But I will replace the FS with one of the lightweight ebikes at some point, maybe 5-10 years from now.

Good for sessioning a few downhill runs in a fixed amount of time but a potential liability on a proper day out.

People are getting some pretty dire range & elevation on their bikes here.

I have a Rail with the 625wh battery and Bosch CX4 motor & if I ride it in Eco I can easily get 2000+ M of climbing in a 60+ KM day. Generally that’s how I use it, unless we’re blatting out with friends or doing power laps, all of which it’s great for.

In terms of ride, I think ultimately like a normal bike you can ride ones that feel agile, others that feel like big, long, sluggish gravity bikes. The weight doesn’t significantly change riding style IMO, mostly braking points, but that’s it.

@Weeksy.

Didnt see it mentioned, but what make/model did you have ?

nice to see a conversation about e-bikes that hasn't got all "judgey" and some interesting points made.

for what it's worth, my 2p after having my rail for a year now:
- i ended up riding the e-bike more than i thought i would, prob 2/3 vs 1/3 of rides on the bronson, some of that is time related, but at weekends i often go for big rides on the rail as it provides more all round "fun" and i think thats one of the big selling points for e-bikes - the whole ride turns into fun. not just parts of it interspersed with suffering
- the e-bikes open up different more varied routes or combinations of trails than my normal bike. even when i was pretty fit i would never think 'oh, i'll just do another lap of jacobs ladder' or 'i'll just pop up that massive hill as there's a couple of short sections i like on the other side and then carry on with the planned ride' - none of that's an issue on the rail
- you do have to haul them around more and be more physical with them due to the extra weight. however that extra weight also means they feel incredibly planted on techy / rocky descents and i'm pretty convinced it also helps the suspension work better
- when you ride your normal bikes, it feels like a rocket ship downhill and so light & nimble, the flip side being it feels like your riding with your rear brake stuck on for the first part of the ride on the ups
- with a 625wh battery and the newer more efficient motors, range anxiety isn't an issue (for me at least). after c 20 miles of winch and plummet riding in the peak, i'm normally knackered and ready to go home before the bike is
- e-bikes are brilliant if you are time short, i a quick 90 minutes blast after work i can get a decent ride in which just wouldn't be possible on the bronson

i can see a point in the next couple of years as e-bikes become lighter and more efficient that i'll likely end up ditching the normal bike and end up going e-bike only, especially as more and more of my riding buddies are riding e-bikes more of the time

I have a Rail with the 625wh battery and Bosch CX4 motor & if I ride it in Eco I can easily get 2000+ M of climbing in a 60+ KM day. Generally that’s how I use it

really, if i ride my rail in eco on anything other than the road or flattish hard pack trails it feels pretty much the same effort as riding my normal bike, which seems to defeat the point! saying that i am using DD casing on the rear which i wouldn't do on my bronson

nice to see a conversation about e-bikes that hasn’t got all “judgey” and some interesting points made

Absolutely this.

@Hob-nob what tyres are you using on the ebike? I'm kinda looking just now, something that will be tough enough on the rear with the extra weight without sucking the range too much. I picked up a cheap aggressor WT DD last week, I'll probably go Mary 2.6 on the front again.

nice to see a conversation about e-bikes that hasn’t got all “judgey” and some interesting points made

As someone whose only contact with ebikes so far is being overtaken on uphill bridleways (my line being "please tell me that thing's turned on") but v much not a hater, I get that the riding will feel different, particularly the going faster and tech lines uphill sounding like fun, and that you must be averaging higher speeds, but just a bit surprised to see these overall routes lengths and particularly climbing are same as you'd do on a regular bike? I guess I'd thought the point was more self uplift/laps of descents hence high proportion seen in euro mountains (also a slight concern re my most local riding).

and that you must be averaging higher speeds, but just a bit surprised to see these overall routes lengths and particularly climbing are same as you’d do on a regular bike?

Suspect most people doing 'normal bike' length rides are with people on normal bikes.

If i'm on my own or only with ebikes then the ride will end up being 2 x longer/higher than on normal bikes if I onluy have a short time available, If I've got longer then they will be 3x longer/higher.

Most of the time I'm with someone on a normal bike and it is a bit annoying- although sometimes I will zoom off uphill and get a cheeky bonus downhill in while waiting for them to come up.

really, if i ride my rail in eco on anything other than the road or flattish hard pack trails it feels pretty much the same effort as riding my normal bike, which seems to defeat the point!

I’m fairly fit, not very heavy & work as hard as I would do on a normal bike for those sorts of rides, so it’s just a quicker experience. Got a couple of super fit locals (UK elite XC racers) who like riding tech who come out as it’s a beasting for them against my effort for comparisons sake.

what tyres are you using on the ebike? I’m kinda looking just now, something that will be tough enough on the rear with the extra weight without sucking the range too much

I keep my tyres exactly the same across both bikes to be fair, 2.5 Assegai EXO+ MaxxGrip on the front & 2.4DHR2 DD MaxxTerra on the rear. They give me enough puncture protection on the eeb and for normal bike riding & racing (when it happens!)

I guess I’d thought the point was more self uplift/laps of descents

Most of my riding buds and me are doing about x3 the elevation gain that we used to on mtbs on an 'average' eeb ride.

Fun.

Suspect most people doing ‘normal bike’ length rides are with people on normal bikes.

Ah! 💡

I’m fairly fit, not very heavy & work as hard as I would do on a normal bike

that would be three no's form me and suddenly all makes sense!

I did both rides with weeksy on my whyte E150S. We can get a 5 hour ride out with a 625wh battery fairly easily. To get more means riding as slow as a manual bike and not hitting the steep climbs that aren't really possible on a normal bike. For me that's the point of an ebike to go places I can't on a normal bike, and go for longer doing them. I did try weeksy's wifes ebike and compared to my whyte it's a bit of a barge with a really heavy front end. Not at all playful and welded to the ground 🙂 My whyte by comparison is in a different league. Rather controversially I do run mine derestricted at times on quiet trails when I'm alone. It turns what would otherwise be flat and boring 15mph runs into 25mph runs and makes them much more exciting. TBH it's then a similar speed to the very quickest normal bike riders. But for longer rides in the peaks etc 15mph is more than enough. As with any bike you have to pick your ebike carefully and preferably demo first.
As for fitness and how hard you work that's all down to how hard you try same as any other bike. On the peaks ride 5 of us were ebikers and weeksy was the normal rider. There was no fitness difference between any of us which I think was an eye opener for weeksy 🙂

Have to say places like the Peaks and Exmoor would be good areas for Ebikes not that I have one my sort of Ebike is a KTM250F freeride.

Most of my riding buds and me are doing about x3 the elevation gain that we used to on mtbs on an ‘average’ eeb ride.

Out of interest, roughly what elevation gain are we talking about?
I am quite interested to try an ebike at some point particularly having seen a lot of talk of this type. However, this thread seems to suggest that most ebikes would struggle to make it through my 'normal' weekly bigger rides. For reference I regularly ride 1500m / 5000ft+ of elevation over five hours or so in the Tweed Valley, Dunkeld etc.

Out of interest, roughly what elevation gain are we talking about?

Well, the other day for example I rode at Hopton and did 4600 feet of ascent over 21 miles on a 625 battery.

I still had a little left, but you have to make the call to stop sometimes as pedalling unassisted if you run out completely is treacle. Also, I was with a mate who only had a 500 battery in his Marin. He's lighter though and so actually had a little left too.

I actually have a second battery, a 500. So sometimes our rides will be over two batteries and a lunch stop and be 6.5k ish of ascent.

That's not running the battery until dead though. Having two batteries, while eye-wateringly expensive allows you to go flat out until your physical energy runs out which is normally before two batteries are done.

Ebiking is closer to how you feel after a full day of uplift, riding rough downhill at your limit. You defo feel it, but it's a bit different.

For reference I regularly ride 1500m / 5000ft+ of elevation over five hours or so in the Tweed Valley, Dunkeld etc.

It’s not just the elevation, it’s also the time it takes.

I’ve done over 1000m of elevation on local trails in an hour when going for it (EMTB mode, near max efforts).

I can do 1500m local loops comfortably in under 2 hours with a few of us. On normal bikes 1500m is more like 3.5/4 hours.

FWIW, the most I have got out of a 625 battery in Eco on a warm summers day (BPW for reference) was 2458m. I’ve done many a 2000m day when racing & whilst I wasn’t as fried as that, I was mentally done by that point.

can do 1500m local loops comfortably in under 2 hours

regularly ride 1500m / 5000ft+

Lol, I did a local off road ride the other day and averaged 26ft or 8 metres of ascent per mile!

For reference I regularly ride 1500m / 5000ft+ of elevation over five hours or so in the Tweed Valley, Dunkeld etc.

Last week over the Golfie I did 1586M in just over 20 miles, took 2.5 hours and still had around a third of my battery left.
Was a bit moist to which didn't help battery life.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51208725546_0cb8ce5eaf_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51208725546_0cb8ce5eaf_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2m29729 ]Shitey.[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/stu-b/ ]multispeedstu[/url], on Flickr

I did a lap of Llandegla last week with my mates on normal bikes so I kept my Rail in ECO for most of it. Think it was around 13 miles ish.
Only used 25% of the battery so I reckon a 50 mile day out is possible with a reasonable amount of climbing.

Yesterday I used 2 dots out of 5 for 500m of elevation and 28km. So yeah in the right terrain you can get plenty of miles and height.

I used 50% going up and back down snowdon at the weekend, so that 3300 feet of climbing over 9 miles, on a bosch gen4 bike with 625 Wh battery.

What ebike are you getting Nobeer??

I did 18 miles and 3300feet of climbing at Mortimer/Bringewood on my new one at the weekend and had some battery left.

I was in tour for most of it though as was a first ride for a while 😃