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Hi all.
I have a bike for sale and an interested buyer, we've agreed a price.
Only think is he wants to pay using paypal as he does not get paid until next week but he also want to collect in person ASAP.
Am I at any risk here?
No way, if he's genuine why would he choose to PayPal when's he's going to be there in person. Tell him bank transfer (before he takes the bike away) or cash iiwy
It's a known scam. No evidence the person paying is collecting. Report to PayPal that goods not received, refund and item with the fraudster.
Avoid. Article in telegraph about this last year (or guardian, can't remember but was about this issue and laptop sales)
Scam, scam, scam.
He PPS it. Picks up bike in person. Then lodges claim with PP saying he never received the goods. They find in his favour. You lose bike and dosh. Tell him if he's picking it up in person then Paypal gift or cash. End of.
If its gift or personal payment owed youre golden, no?
Just not for goods/services as he can claim not delivered
So a paypal gift and I'm covered?
AFAIK, its like giving you cash, zero comeback
I've paid this way before using ppg , reason being that it would go on my cc linked to my account and I could pay it off when I had the funds. As long as it's ppg I don't see a problem.
If he just wants to use a credit card for payment as he's not got the cash, then PayPal Gift is fine.
He has no way of claiming the cash back from you.
Not sure I would do it though personally.
Tell him to get a cash advance on his credit card, the fees are his problem.
Just double check the PP gift thing. I'm sure there has been discussion before and while the normal PayPal dispute things don't apply the money can still be returned at a later date. I'm not sure exactly why/how, possibly if credit card use is reported as fraudulent would be my guess. Someone will know.
Hmm that rings a bell, a chargeback..
PayPal friend and family (gift) or bank transfer should be fine.
Might be legit but not worth the risk.
No. Don't do it. You don't know who he is from Adam. Tell him cash on collection.
You are not his dad or his nan and you don't owe him nothing.
Shirley if he can "paypal" the cash on the day, he can go to an atm or the bank on the day and get the actual cash?
If he is just waiting to get paid for a week and only wants to put on credit card via Paypal to avoid waiting just tell him to wait and bring cash when he gets paid. You can also go outside of eBay in that case and offer him 10% off for cash as you will end up with same amount.
Why would you even think of taking the risk? Good price offerd?
I've paid this way myself before. It's usually as I'm in the middle of switching bikes, I have one for sale, but not yet sold and want to use the 90days interest free on my CC as a buffer between bikes.
Withdrawing cash on my credit card immediately incurs a higher interest rate and removes the 90day interest free period.
I sold my last frame and the buyer (who admittedly I had sold various items to through Pinkbike and had come to my house and pay cash on the last transcation) came to my house to collect, and he did the PayPal transfer to my account whilst at my house. I checked my PayPal before he left with the frame.
I then transferred to my bank account after he left. All seemed legit and no problems
No way I would do this with an unknown person though?
Your cash flow and interest rates are your problem not mine. The risk to me is as others have said that you then claim you didn't pickup the bike/it wasn't sent/some other made up story and get money back from PayPal.
It is why I send anything with a value over £30 as special delivery (I can write off £30) and only accept cash for local pickup.
Take a video him collecting the bike using your GoPro so when he says he never got the bike you can drop your sick edit with this soundtrack...
I have used this Method in the past and always got the person collecting the goods to sign a receipt confirming they picked up the item. This contains info like cost/eBay ref item/date/etc.
I highly doubt your own receipt (with what could be anyone's signature) would be a form of proof PayPal would even look at if a claim was lodged.
I sold a road bike recently to someone who refused to pay by cash in case the bike turned out to have a problem they hadn't seen on collection. I was highly skeptical so I took a photo of them and their wife holding their driving license with the bike. Really made me nervous but as it turns out it's been ok.
[quote=gee ]I sold a road bike recently to someone who refused to pay by cash in case the bike turned out to have a problem they hadn't seen on collection. I was highly skeptical so I took a photo of them and their wife holding their driving license with the bike. Really made me nervous but as it turns out it's been ok.
Do you offer a warranty on 2nd hand goods?
How easy would it be to claim account hacked/charge back?
Recently a senior Police officer stated that we should look after our online transactions better. This would be a classic example. The buyer isn't a friend or family and 'gift' isn't going to cover you. PayPal has its place but I avoid it where possible. Like everything it's open to abuse and interpretation.
Is his email address culley.chris@ ? He's "interested" in my bike at the moment and wants to come and see it. I've told him I'll come and meet him and he can test ride the bike if he hands over the cash, which is refundable if he changes his mind.
No. Why even think any more? If he has a credit card linked to PP he can ask them for a charge back if he has paid gift. When PP won't play C C companies do. Photos etc won't stop PP refunding.
There are, as mentioned, lots of methods that might help but none are concrete. Cash. If he can afford the bike he'll find it.
giantjason - MemberI have used this Method in the past and always got the person collecting the goods to sign a receipt confirming they picked up the item. This contains info like cost/eBay ref item/date/etc.
A signed reciept would be worthless unless you can prove the person signing is who they say they are surely? Photo id etc.
As others have said, just not worth the hassle I'd say.
I always price [b]cash[/b] on collection cheaper for this reason.
Deposit now and you'll hold it 'til next week, when he'll bring the balance in cash?
As above, it's a well known scam but that doesn't mean that he isnt genuine. I wouldn't accept it but if you still want to......
Tell him to bring photo ID and a recent utility bill so that you can take a copy to go with his receipt. Make sure he signs both receipts, 1 for him, 1 for you. I'd also try and take his photo as further proof.
If he still comes then he's probably genuine. If he's dodgy you won't hear from him again.
How much money are we talking about?
So say he brings I.D then initiates a charge back.
You go to the Police, what could they do if he says it was knackered, not as described, promised parts missing? Do you think they may then might say 'it sounds a civil matter' (but PayPal refunded him back).
It then might appear at face value PayPal SIDED with him (even though it's fraud in all intent). On the surface it may appear 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.
Anyway. You dance with PayPal be prepared to pay the price..
i sold a nicolai frame like this, even let him use my laptop to access his paypal account, no issues
not everyone is on the rob
It was 850 pounds.
Not willing to take the risk. I've told him cash only and have not heard anything back.
Thanks for the advice folks.
OTOH, when buying I've had a couple of people insist on Paypal in advance, which makes me a bit uncomfortable in case the item is not as descibed or, in my more paranoid moments, that it doesn't even exist and I'm travelling to a fake address.
It's always been fine.
I agree with all the above though, cash on collection is best for everyone.
cash on collection is best for everyone.
Not me. I hate dealing with large quantities of cash. More than happy with PPG/BT.
No but PayPal allows claims for goods not as described. Used bikes are always scammable like this - buy it, use it for a bit, decides it doesn't fit/has second thoughts, claims not as described.
Not every one is dodgy. And PayPal doesn't always side with the buyer.
As a seller you do have the right to put your side forward and if you can prove you took necessary steps to confirm his ID and you have a signed receipt for a bike that he viewed and your advert states no returns then I would say you would have a good case.