[Closed] Paying for demo rides

fair comment but you have answered your own question, they do it to prevent all and sundry trying out top end bikes. Also to try and stop folk trying at our shop and then you go buy online. The refund is also in place hoping you will show that shop some loyalty for providing you with a demo in a first place

I can see the point in shops charging for demo rides. As has been said on here lots of times even with stuff like helmets/shoes etc, people go to a shop to try stuff on, find what suits/fits then go online to buy cheaper.
Why should a shop let you test a bike & not get a sale on the one you like & they sell?
Can you 'virtually test' a bike?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I had a woman on a demo day argue for half an hour that she shouldn't have to give any details at all, much less credit card details before we allowed her 15 year old son to demo a £4995 Spicy 916 for free.

She then pissed off with her friend for four hours leaving her son alone. I had to take the bike off him after watching him fail to wheelie for half an hour. We ended up taking pity on him and giving him some sandwiches as his mum neglected to leave him any food. In fairness she was a fat ignorant **** rag and not everyone is so obstinate or stupid, but that might give you some idea of just how much of a frustrating waste of time demos can be.

Another punter who was present on the same day ended up buying a previous year model of one of the bikes he demo'd which was on sale online.

Demos are an expensive, time consuming, resource draining process for most lbs' and regardless of what "you" might be like, most people who demo bikes just want to rag around on someone elses new bike so they can tell their mates how crap the latest (insert brand) is.

Well said both of you!!!!

make that 3 of you!!!!

I completely get the concern about trying in a shop and then buying online, and I guess it's a difficult one of address. But as a customer it's just frustrating that I'm basically writing off cube and nukeproof, both of which look sweet bikes, because I can't test ride them. I'm also having to decide if it's worth test riding a banshee for £60 if I already can try a santa cruz and a spesh for nothing.

Actually, and apologies for the cliché, but this has changed my view on one of our local bike shops as the guy couldn't have been more helpful both in terms of pricing up a spec and sorting a (free) demo. Whereas in another shop they just seemed determined to make it really difficult to find out the info I wanted and to organise a test ride.

I guess I'm just frustrated as I thought people would be eager to take my money!

Some of the distributors have a test fleet that the shop can access. That can influence the shops decision to provide demos too.

I've also had customers demo a brand new bike, decide to buy one - but not the actual one they rode.... because it's been used now 🙄

Santa Cruz & Specialized over the other 2....,

Have you felt how heavy a Nukeproof is! 🙄

No, because I can't bloody get hold of one to test!

😉

I've also had customers demo a brand new bike, decide to buy one - but not the actual one they rode.... because it's been used now

Without knowing what 'demo' entails for above - it may be impossible to tell who is being a dick here 😛

It's a bit of a filter to remove the tyre kickers from the equation. It also means the shop has more chance of you buying the bike from them as you have invested with them. Especially with nuke proof when you can just wait till crc run them out cheap.

It's a bit of a filter to remove the tyre kickers from the equation

Whilst partly true, there's a lot more to it than that...

Firstly, not every bike shop has a demo fleet. In fact, many don't, so to get hold of a demo bike often involves costs (delivery charges both ways to and from distributor usually) which can easily top £50... Just for you to try out a bike that you might not buy!

Then there's the fact that a Bike Shop needs public liability insurance. If some random punter goes out, snaps the bike in half or worse still, damages themselves and sues, the average bike shop wouldn't be able to deal with it without having insurance. I know from experience (I own a bike shop) that our insurance company require us to take a £50 swipe of a customer's card before they are covered on a demo ride... Bet you didn't see that one coming!

Lastly, there's also the fact that a demo bike is going to be subject to wear and tear, and invariably the person borrowing it isn't going to look after it as if it was their own!

Think about it from the other side of the counter next time you're getting het up about paying for a demo ride! Personally, I think £50 for a demo ride is FAR cheaper than shelling out several grand on the wrong bike, and to have it refunded against the purchase of a new bike is a pretty good deal!

Just saying of course... 🙄

Perfectly reasonable in my book. I would personally appreciate it that the charge would allow me to demo more than one bike, or if it's multiple charges they all are deducted from what I buy. Or maybe the charges could be put toward a discount on other stuff you might buy?

At least you have some choices in life. I had to go to Little Rock, Arkansas to test ride a bike AND pay for the pleasure!

We used to do guided test rides, rather than charge. A bit more faff to organise, but it avoided the tyre kickers, no one felt hard done by and you could 'sell' the bike to people as you rode - I went out with people on a Stumpjumper, who would clearly prefer an Epic and such!

To be fair, I got a Banshee Spitfire demo for free when I had my Ghost serviced at Pedals in Edinburgh 🙂
I did then buy one...

My old LBS did this - yes, initially it feels wrong (as in you can demo a car easily) but once you see the 'mechanics' of it I could accept why.

Demo-Day.

Our LBS has a few of demo bikes in the medium size of their most popular models.

But actually this weekend my other half is testing an XS whyte t-130 (mostly to see if she'll fit on it!) & there's a £35.00 charge for this - which will be refunded. The shop has had to order this bike in & so the cost goes to cover the couriers, also to be fair - £35.00 to hire a bike for a couple of days to ride how & where you want to seems a pretty good deal to me.

Surely this needs to be addressed by the manufacturer or importer??? Why are lbs demoing bikes that they may have to sell??

What I'm saying is that manufacturer and distro should get together and do demo days up and down the country. They're the one making the money (if any) so they should be the ones taking the hit on demo days. Then the punter could pop along to his nearest X dealer and buy what they want.

If you could have a word with them,that would be splendid.Thanks in advance.

We should get Angela Rippon and her team onto it 😉

I know someone who intended "demoing" a bike recently by taking part in a local race!!

If you're in the market for a brand new bike from an LBS then you can afford the demo charge.

Lol, yeah I guess that is the major problem, sorting the people who actually do want to buy from people looking for a free rental of an expensive bike.

I would personally appreciate it that the charge would allow me to demo more than one bike, or if it's multiple charges they all are deducted from what I buy. Or maybe the charges could be put toward a discount on other stuff you might buy?

The problem here is that being awkward I've managed to pick frame choices that require me to test at several different shops so no matter how serious I am about each bike, some one isn't going to get a sale. And as they'll only refund against a bike purchase I'm not going to see my "refundable" deposit again!

I know someone who intended "demoing" a bike recently by taking part in a local race!!

This is what happens, some people take the piss. We had people taking demo bikes to Wales (from Surrey) and absolutely trashing them.

For me there's an additional issue that tootall alludes too in sizing.

Personally for the price of what frames /full bikes are I think at the very least the distributors should have some sort of system allowing dealors to send them out for demo.

I have several possibilities in mind for my next bike/ frame but I'm not gambling that amount of money. Plus by the time I've paid several hire costs to test sizes as well as models I've thrown even more into the mix.

I understand it helps avoid tyre kickers but sadly that's the buisness of sales. Offer the carrot in other ways?

Quick edit on above post- if the bikes intended use and area it'll be ridden in is in Wales whats wrong with taking it there to demo rather than leafy Surrey?

Agreed on that, I'm planning on taking my demo to Cannock, can't see the point in taking it for a pootle around the block, you won't learn anything about a trail bike that way! It'll come back cleaned and obviously I'll leave a deposit so if I trash it, it's my own fault.

Was asked to pay to demo a bike by an LBS where I've spent quite a bit of cash in the past.
They knew I'd buy the bike if I liked it, no question of me going online and buying.

Simple solution - I've never bought anything from them since and never will do again.

I was about to say that's a bit harsh. But actually I guess that's what's happening with me too, although I'm only doing it in the case of this purchase rather than every subsequent purchase!

Ironically it's looking increasingly likely I'll end up with the santa cruz if it rides well, even though it's right right at the top of what I wanted to spend, as it's the only bike I seem to be able to sort a demo on. The cube shop have admitted defeat, and can't source a demo even if I'm prepared to pay, same with the nuke proof unless I wait until jan.

I think its fair enough to charge. If £200 is 10% (5%?) of your budget is that bad value to avoid an expensive mistake. From memory a days bike hire in Morzine is upto 100 Euros

The really scary question is for a high end bike if was yours how much does one solid days riding cost

Having read on here that some on destroyed on of those posh 10-42 11 speed cassettes in 600 miles. £50 a ride might well be what it costs some people for a days riding any way

I do however have sympathy with the likes of Rusty Spanner. Very different if you have a relationship with the shop

PS my personal solution was to buy second hand. On the basis if I didn't like it I could move it on with minimal loss

Demo cost, money well spent

I think its fair enough to charge. If £200 is 10% (5%?) of your budget is that bad value to avoid an expensive mistake.

you could have 5 bikes on your shortlist spending £1000 for 5 hrs riding seems a tad excessive, obviously for some on here it's merely pocket change 🙄

I've never had to pay for test rides on motorcycles or test drives in cars, we even got free test rides on mobility scooters for my father in law. What's different about the bicycle industry?

I certainly wouldn't pay for bicycle test rides, I've had many in the past and never asked to pay

5hrs riding for £1000, who's suggested that? the OP said

"4 or 5 bikes on my shortlist so I'm potentially dropping £200+ on demos"

I've ridden 5 bikes this year on demo days, aprox 1 hr, and then borrowed a demo bike for 3 proper rides at home, from a very understanding LBS. I'm not convinced the demo days were that great, as it was rushed affair, on tracks I didn't really know, with suspension settings (other than sag) that were at the mercy of previous riders. Only having the bike for 3 rides, did I really get a good feel for the bike but then the weather was against me, so they were wet rides after weeks of dryness (annoying and off putting). For me the ability to try the bike on my home tracks, with time to mess with suspension setting is the way ahead, if it cost £50 then it's a small price to pay

At least you have some choices in life. I had to go to Little Rock, Arkansas to test ride a bike AND pay for the pleasure!

my heart bleeds...

... lucky git

Which ampthill has quoted

😳 see what happens when you come in on the end of a thread after drinking too much 🙂 £50 a demo, still rather do a hora and risk it and flog it on here if i bought a lemon.

We'll forgive you.. but when the common quote for the price of a 2nd hand bike is 50% of new once out of the shop, unless your buying 2nd hand initally, then your gunna lose much more than £50/£200.

then your gunna lose much more than £50/£200.

I'm hoping Hora rides his bikes for more than an hour before he decides they are [s]crap[/s] not for him 😉 though I may be wrong.

I tried 2 bikes at my lbs which is owned by a mate i ride with, he charged me £50 for the demo, 2 weeks later i was riding at GT and there was an Orange demo day and Alpine bikes were knocking 15% off, + other freebies, I rang my mate up to see if he could come anywhere near the price but he couldn't so i bought the bike from Alpine bikes, i felt really really bad for not buying from my mate but it was a no brainer for the price, the only thing that made me feel a little less guilty was the fact he charged me for the demo, ps we're still mates

Lol, imagine charging people £50 to test drive a car.

Something that really grinds my gears is retailers complaining about 'idiot customers'.
**** you - get out of the game if you don't like it.

Same as a guy at my work complaining how stupid the people using our website are because they email questions in instead of finding the answers on the site.
No, it means our site needs altered.

Lol, imagine charging people £50 to test drive a car.

It's not the same game though, is it? Do people try cars out as free rentals and/or then buy them online?

If people only demo'd bikes they would buy then we wouldn't charge. But people will ring and ask if we have demo bikes available because they only have a hard tail and are going to bpw for the weekend and want something else to use and openly say no when you ask if they are looking to buy a new bike.

Or bring them back plastered in mud and it takes an hours cleaning to get it back in a condition where we can put it in the shop.

I've taken £16K motorbikes out for 4 hours or more without having to pay for anything, including fuel! I've been buying bikes from my local bike store for 15+ years both for myself and for the school I teach in. we've spent thousands, may be 20K over the years, when they asked me to pay £40 to demo a Crush, it was the last time I went in, no more money from me or the school.

Yeah yeah yeah, every customer's a twunt.
Change your model, react to the market. If you've got all these hardtail owners looking to rent a a full susser then maybe offer a bike rental service instead? Try and innovate instead of wasting your time asking about the new VAG diesel's MPG on STW.

Like this codswallop:
http://themetapicture.com/people-kept-complaining-this-restaurant-sucked-look-what-they-found-out/

Guess what, the world's changed!!! Find your USP and work it instead of giving up on life and complaining that people are stupid. If they're that stupid then surely it should be easy to make money off of them. Work it out Mr Businessman.

The only constant in the world is change. React to it.

I had a shortlist of 8 bikes that I wanted to try.
It was going to be expensive, but also fun and worth it to feel like I would be really confident in my purchase.

Fortunately, I was patient and managed to fit 4 of them in on proper demo days (Dalby Forest and NWMTB) which were free.
Then I rode another bike belonging to a friend.

The last 3 I rode with very helpful distributor from Knolly and very helpful manufacturers in the case of Bird and Cotic.
All ended up free other than a lengthy car trip. They were also great days out.

So after expecting to pay £1xx on demos, I got them all free over a period of 4 months.

I think it's fairly obvious that many shops can't afford to run a demo fleet with all the models and sizes people expect, so visiting organised demo days and trips to distributor/manufacturer's local trails seems fair enough to me.

Yeah yeah yeah, every customer's a twunt.
Change your model, react to the market. If you've got all these hardtail owners looking to rent a a full susser then maybe offer a bike rental service instead? Try and innovate instead of wasting your time asking about the new VAG diesel's MPG on STW.
Like this codswallop:
http://themetapicture.com/people-kept-complaining-this-restaurant-sucked-look-what-they-found-out/
Guess what, the world's changed!!! Find your USP and work it instead of giving up on life and complaining that people are stupid. If they're that stupid then surely it should be easy to make money off of them. Work it out Mr Businessman.
The only constant in the world is change. React to it.

Alright calm down. My point is we do fine selling bikes the way we do and most people are happy with paying when they are going to splash a few grand on a new bike. I have no interest in hiring bikes as it would have to be a lot more expensive than our demo bikes to make it work.

You don't need to adapt and change everything if you have a good business and customers that value that.

The only constant in the world is arseholes. React to it.

So after expecting to pay £1xx on demos, I got them all free over a period of 4 months.

I'm just not that patient! Literally struggling already waiting, it's like Christmas! I want a new bike!

[i]I've never had to pay for test rides on motorcycles or test drives in cars, we even got free test rides on mobility scooters for my father in law. What's different about the bicycle industry?[/i]

The damage/wear I'd imagine; could be wrong but not sure you can get a free demo on an MX bike?

Buy wise sell wise.

Currently 11? Months on my used 2011 SC Butcher frame. Cant see why anyone would buy a new SC etc bike.

The damage/wear I'd imagine; could be wrong but not sure you can get a free demo on an MX bike?

Currently demo'ing enduro bikes for 2015 [for free] both my son and me - proper enduro not bicycle enduro

On the whole motorbike demo vs MTB thing. The big difference is in the money made surely.

Yes they gave you a 12k bike for free but they would make a lot more profit from that if you buy one than an MTB and there are also less variations in sizes for particular models.

Maybe more money made but you can get free demos on £5k motorbikes, where I guess the markup up isn't far removed

Business model is surely also completely different.

[quote=Klunk ]I'm hoping Hora rides his bikes for more than an hour before he decides they are [s]crap[/s] not for him though I may be wrong.

I wouldn't put any money on it.

LOL MTBers gettin taken for a ride again! It's the mtb industry, what a racket! Tell gullible idiots they need a five grand bike to have fun. Then change something on it (wheel sizes maybe? Or steerer diameter!) a year later and tell em theyre five grand dream machine is out of date and they need to buy a new one. Then charge em 50 quid to test ride it! It's a push bike for gods sake, they're all pretty much the same. Use your common sense. You dont need to spend five grand on a bike to have fun. A motorbike costs five grand and that has an engine!

Njee, did you used to work with heather then?

My next bike will be from the lbs that organised the brilliant free demo days in the summer....

Or bring them back plastered in mud and it takes an hours cleaning to get it back in a condition where we can put it in the shop

so have a [i]refundable[/i] deposit, like you pay for items you hire to cover damage.

Never demo'ed a bike let alone paid for one. I dont think you get enough experience of a bike in a few hours ride to make a judgement. As Ive said in bike-specific threads I quickly grew to hate my Mk. 1 Nomad after the initial honeymoon period, which was longer than a demo day, and there's all the personal set up issues (bar width, stem length, suspension settings etc) that youd spend more than a day fine tuning on a bike you owned.

Begrudging (genuine) potential buyers* of an all-mountain bike taking them to wales is like me test riding a Fireblade and being told I can only ride it around the local 30mph village road. Unrealistic and pointless for the tester.

*someone doing it as a cheap big-bike rental for an uplift day is taking the p1ss and is akin to "showrooming" clothing, parts etc and then buying online and I can appreciate if I was in the business it would infuriate me.

You dont need to spend five grand on a bike to have fun.

Thanks David, I never saw it that way, guess I'll just cancel my demo!

EDIT: Ben Cooper summed it up perfectly below.

"People didn't want to buy a bike that other people had ridden."

Maybe more money made but you can get free demos on £5k motorbikes, where I guess the markup up isn't far removed

Motorbikes are made in much, much larger numbers than MTBs, especially £5k ones, and they don't become out of date every year. That's what used to really annoy me when I sold normal bikes, I couldn't have a proper demo fleet because they were obsolete every 12 months and I had to get rid and get new demonstrators. Couldn;t use them for stock either as people didn't want to buy a bike that other people had ridden.

Just for context, the two large shops I worked in, 5k mountain bikes represented a tiny fraction of overall sales. I hope there are boutique stores out there who do well from that sort of thing, but I don't know of any.

An average shop might sell 5 bikes like that, per year if they are lucky. Never at full price. The more boutique or exclusive the brand, generally, the shittier the margins are. If we assume most shops will carry 3 main mtb brands, and those brands might have 3 main models, and you've got 3 sizes.....there's 27 potential options for a demo bike to buy. Or, they have a 1 in 27 chance of buying in the correct demo bike for you. And if anyone so much as bimbles down a gravel path on that bike it'll be worth little more than cost price.

If you own a £5k bike, I wonder how much the cost per ride is. Wear and tear, depreciation, consumables etc. Hint: Don't actually work this out - it'll depress you. Anyhow, £50 per ride probably isn't far off that figure. So it's not a massively big deal. Besides, a lot of shops will allow you to take a bike out for a spin around the car park to check sizing etc.

Sit on them all and choose your favourite two for test rides?

"People didn't want to buy a bike that other people had ridden."

Utterly bizarre. First wet/dirty ride and it'll be in worse condition than a test ridden round the carpark one.

Demo bikes can also be misdescribed at selling onto time when really they are hire bikes .... depending on where they are kept/the seller is based. Hire bikes- kept solely to produce an income. Demo- are available if someone is thinking to buy...frequency and location of rides?

Utterly bizarre. First wet/dirty ride and it'll be in worse condition than a test ridden round the carpark one.

Agree completely, my Charge Cooker 2 I got for £425 instead of £850 as it had done 4 miles 🙂

I suppose the Ferrari driving LBS owner class take all these £50 fees for demo bikes and blow it on hookers and coke for the end of year party.

Alternatively, what I've observed is many shops used to have a few free demo options but have found over the years that it's unprofitable and have started charging.

"People didn't want to buy a bike that other people had ridden."

😆 wonder if the same people only date virgins?

Hey, at least you can get demo bikes in your size. Try being at the taller end of the population and needing XL/21" bikes, you can barely get one to sit on let alone demo ride one.

[quote=tomhoward ]

"People didn't want to buy a bike that other people had ridden."

[img] [/img]

I work in a 'brand store'.for 2015 we have 17 demo bikes split across mtn, road and men's/women's models.

We charge for demo bike use because we had to buy the bikes, albeit at a reduced rate from the distributor. At the end of next autumn we'll try to sell the bikes to claw back some of this money.

We also have to clean, service and repair the bikes to keep them serviceable. Last bike we lent out came back dirty and with a bent derailleur hanger / scratched rear mech .

If a customer buys a bike from us, the charge is refunded.

When I worked in 2 specialized concept stores we had access to 100+ bikes held by specialized UK. We were charged £40 for delivery and return shipping, and had to clean the bikes before return. Of course this cost was charged to the customer.

When I worked for Freeborn we did it differently taking customers on guided demo rides in Surrey hills, at no charge. Surprising how many time wasters this weeded out compared to when people wanted to take bikes away just to have something bling to thrash for a few days.

That BMW fake ad ^

It works for Aston Martin but BOY Beemers don't have the same visual appeal as that woman. By far. They're hideous.

I demo'd an Alpine 160 from the Hub at Glentress which cost me £35 and confirmed that it wasn't really the thing for me. Better than spending £2k+ on a bike to find I didn't like it.

I also demo'd a Rocket from 18bikes in Hope and even though I was expecting to pay they didn't charge me a penny. If I'd had the money right there I'd have got one and even though I'm 3hrs away I would have got it from them. By the time I'd gathered the funds, well there's a thread about that somewhere.

[quote=P-Jay ]On the other hand the much beleaguered LBS is holding a bit of stock worth £5000 retail, which might have cost them £4000 wholesale
...

go to any large city centre shopping centre, there's an Apple Shop, A Lego Shop, a Bose Shop, A Vans shop, a Nike Shop a Superdry Shop etc etc etc
... and bike sales are no different.

I think I can spot one obvious difference - I left an earlier bit of your post as a hint.

@hora, you do realise the BMW ad is genuine, and the Aston one was fake, though that wasn't the main reason I chose to post the BMW one, I wonder if you can work it out...

@p-jay

The problem for the cycle 'concept stores' and 'brand stores' is that they are not owned or operated by the cycle manufacturer or distributor for the country, but are franchises operated by independent retailers.

They still have to wash their face, or more favourably turn a profit, which is not as easy when selling a single bike brand. If that brand runs out of stock of a particular model, you have nothing to sell, this happens more than you'd think.

Specialized Kingston is owned by Sigma Sport, specialized Covent garden is different in that its part of cycle surgery.

The Giant brand stores (20 at last count) are run by independent retailers except for Swansea which is part of treads/wheelies.

A problem facing these stores is the understandable confusion from customers that these stores are brand owned, which I've repeatedly seen with customers showrooming product and then buying from local dealer (who may offer an aggressive discount when their payroll is looming and cash flow is tight), expecting warranty support for free (frame has cracked and customer wants warranty replacement rebuilt for free), trying to return goods purchased from other dealers, etc.

I understand the customers POV, you would not expect to pay for warranty help with an Apple tablet bought in PC world if you walked into the Apple store in Covent garden.