Ignore Vaughters posted an old story which I hadn't seen.
What? Where?
I idolised Pantani as a kid, I'd be willing to believe any old nonsense which exonerated him a bit 🙄
Presumably this is the one he passed
Pro cyclist doing drugs !!! It’ll never happen !!
Possibly there was something strange happening during the famous Giro test he failed. Not that he was ever clean as a pro (according to one book blood manipulation started when he was in his late teens) but they were used to scamming the test very successfully until then. So why did they fail just then and not before?
Having read a couple of books about him, it's always seemed the issue was why he failed the tests rather than did he take drugs. Betting scams seems possible I guess.
Never quite understood the way he is idolised despite his drug use, and how it was a sign of his flawed personality, while everyone hates on Armstrong for his drug use and his (albeit differently) flawed personality..
Never quite understood the way he is idolised despite his drug use....while everyone hates on Armstrong for his drug use...
I wouldn't go so far as to call a dog filthy, but they're definitely dirty.
But a dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way.
Huge difference between Pantani and Armstrong. There was more to both of them then just being drug cheats. Completely different personalities both on and off the bike.
Contador is the guy who bemuses me, I absolutely loved him as a rider/competitor, but he got/gets so much stick.
Anyway, I’ve had two glasses of wine and in danger of going seriously of topic!
Having read a couple of books about him, it’s always seemed the issue was why he failed the tests rather than did he take drugs. Betting scams seems possible I guess.
I'd thought it was commonly accepted that he was caught because other teams were getting annoyed that he was being too obvious, e.g. they were all at it, but him basically crashing or puncturing or something at the bottom of Alp d'Huez and then succesfully chasing back on, overhauling the leaders and going on to set the fastest time ever was basically, well, taking the pee a little bit.
The tip off to the testing authorities was more because he wasn't playing by the unwritten rules of the game?
I guess Lance got around that by not being TOO obvious whilst also maintaining a more successful omerta within the peloton?
I've also had too many whiskies so am talking poorly remembered nonsense...
I idolised Pantani as a kid, I’d be willing to believe any old nonsense which exonerated him a bit
Jonathan Vaughters posted a five year old article on twitter then deleted it. However they was some movement last year - see here but I can't find any record of the judgement.
I think another big difference is the vindictive way Dopestrong would use the courts to silence or profiteer when rightly accused, or hound others out of their livelihoods, etc etc.
And MY dawg isn't dirty. And is a whole lot more trustworthy than Dopestong too.🙂
Pantani had style, he told a story.
Armstrong was a narcissist who industrialised drug taking in the pro peloton. He was and apparently still is a vindictive nasty man. The fact they both abused drugs in order to win doesn’t make them comparable beyond that.
Why isn't there a report button on the above spam post?
Oh, there you go, it's gone. Maybe that's why!
Report buttons vanish once used, I believe.
I noticed they were offering licences and passports but they weren't doing any updated blood passports...hardly appropriate for the topic...
I’d thought it was commonly accepted that he was caught because other teams were getting annoyed that he was being too obvious, e.g. they were all at it, but him basically crashing or puncturing or something at the bottom of Alp d’Huez and then succesfully chasing back on, overhauling the leaders and going on to set the fastest time ever was basically, well, taking the pee a little bit.
In this case, the story doing the rounds was that it was a rigged betting ring. Pantani was way ahead, last couple of days, almost certain to win so everyone else had really long odds on them. But getting him ejected from the race on "suspicion" of doping (as there was no test for EPO at the time) was a sure fire way of making a lot of money on the results betting.
Comparison between Pantani and Armstrong are inevitable but LA was much more evil as far as people were concerned and he really tried to damage those who had spoken against him.
Pantani was quite a character, he suffered a lot in and out of races and let it show, how many times he broke his leg etc. His attacks on mountains were not calculated efforts directed from DS and anything could happen.
I guess Lance got around that by not being TOO obvious
I'm not sure how much more obvious he and his teams could have been. Everybody knew he was doping in a massive way, from his results, from the times, from the very way they rode. Let's remember the rumour that they needed to brake for the corners on Alpe D'Huez. Going uphill. Maybe only a rumour, but it came from somewhere. There was so much circumstantial evidence for them doping, but the bit missing was catching him with dope in his system or possession.
He, and his teams, were the most obvious dopers in the peloton, and this was commonly discussed while he was still racing, normally with the rebuttal 'ah but everyone's doing it.'
I think some people here are mistaken in thinking that it's as simple as taking more EPO to go faster.
Pantani and his team were routinely doing the same hematocrit test that he failed and were well aware they were to be randomly selected for testing the day he failed. They also tested pantani after the failed test and he passed. So how did he fail?
i loved seeing him ghost past riders on climbs. drugs or not
I think it was in one of his biographies that Pantani had his own centrifuge to measure haemocrit level and that it hadn't been calibrated properly
i loved seeing him ghost past riders on climbs. drugs or not
I gave up worrying whether great rides are fuelled by drugs or not a long time ago. I try and enjoy the spectacle and don't overthink it.
Pantani had style, he told a story.
And time trialling ability - of sorts 😉
He was the most exciting rider I’ve seen watching him on those climbs was breath taking such a tragic end to a talented life
There is no defence for Pantani, watch him stomping up those climbs, in retrospect, yeah right. It should not matter why he got caught.
But it does matter because he was just so cool. Nobody rides like that now.
And time trialling ability – of sorts
😅indeed
I try and enjoy the spectacle and don’t overthink it.
This, very much so. I've no idea why people fixate on it so much. Go and watch something else if it's such an issue.
Go and watch something else if it’s such an issue.
Rugby? The dirtiest sport on the planet. Or Olympic weightlifting? Or powerlifting? And Boxing has cleaned up its act I hear.
I may have a slight professional conflict of interest here. Although all contributions have been pro bono.
