[Closed] Pact Bikes. Over there in the news >>>

bought something else by the time the frame comes to production.

I wonder if they can make a Rocket before Cotic do

It's certainly an interesting theory, they're clearly hoping that if a few folk say "I want that" it won't matter if the 'designer' drops out.

Didn't Kingdom Bike start with a similar ethos? Although they seem to have settled down to a few stock frames plus customisation?

I think it's an interesting idea. "I'd like a bike for this purpose please" and trusting the company doing the designing to arrive at the best solution rather than specifying the details on tube lengths and angles yourself.

Sounds interesting. I've signed-up.

I've got an idea. So I'll await something more formal coming through from him/them.

Maybe Brant sat down to design a new bike and couldn't think of anything.

He's sharpened all his pencils, organised his rulers and rubbers, and still nothing's coming.

"Where can I get my next idea from..."

I suppose (like kickstarter) they ask for the money upfont?

Anyway, a 650b+ aluminum hardtail, 120mm forks with room for normal (well, 2.4") 29er tyres, and a bent seatube to keep the chainstays as short as possible within those requirements. And a tapered 44mm lower, normal upper headtube (because I like the look of bling headsets).

No money up front. Unless you'd like to!

Newsletter coming tonight.

Get ideas in. We have two really solid ones already.

Its a cool idea. With the advent of stuff like slacksets, offset bushings etc is allows riders to do some mucking about with their current bikes and the end result may be something ace which others might want a slice of.

That said, thinking about what I'd want from a new bike I think theres plenty of mainstream choice out there already which I'd hazard a guess at being more affordable than a semi-custom type thing?

Get ideas in. We have two really solid ones already.

[img] [/img]

Will it work without On One? didn't Brant try his own Brand before?

Will On-One work without Brant would be a better question 🙂

I think it'll work out fine - he has the contacts and the design ideas. Direct to market and also that straight talking style of customer service he has 😉

I await my [u]FUN[/u] short travel FS 26er...

Not sure I get it really.

Not sure there's anything out there that essentially speaking hasn't been tried before.

Sure, we could all come up with random ideas of a weird type of suspension/frame etc, but really, is there any point ?

genuine LOL @ plyphon 😀

actually it was more of a CUB (Chuckle Under Breath)

I wonder if they can make a Rocket before Cotic do

I gave up waiting and have a Whyte G150S coming in the very near future.

I'm with you Weeksy, i'm not sure what this really brings to the party?

I mean, there are already plenty of custom frame builders if you want something out of the ordinary?

I mean, there are already plenty of custom frame builders if you want something out of the ordinary?

Do they have the experience to build, for example, a FS bike? Can they match the price that Pact will secure through contacts and reasonable production run sizes?

It's brants design input as well.

Do they have the experience to build, for example, a FS bike? Can they match the price that Pact will secure through contacts and reasonable production run sizes?

+1

Unless you've got an additioanl 50% on top of production Ti or high end Steel money, custom isn't an option. But production only makes sense for big markets.

Not sure there's anything out there that essentially speaking hasn't been tried before

On a smaller scale, it's surprising how many bikes with a Rohloff dropout option don't have cable guides for the twin cables.
If you ride a Rohloff, it's an obvious add on.
If you design bike frames and are simply making a Rohloff option, it's easily overlooked
Perhaps if the end users were more involved in the design, things like this would be included right from the start.

My input. Never put a black drop shadow under a black logo, just makes legibility worse.

http://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/brant-bounces-back-with-pact-bikes/

Guess we're all side-stepping the fact the website has a splash screen?

I opened up the link earlier on my phone, and genuinely didn't consider clicking the logo to get further info.

Not a dig, just might want to put *click for info* or something similar.

...or maybe not everyone is as thick as I am.

See my example in the first post of a Rohloff CX bike.
I'm not saying I would definitely buy one, or that I would invest my own money in producing them in the hope of selling them in any quantity, but it's an idea that anyone looking for a niche market should consider

But is a complete and utter 'niche' market enough to make a good living from ?

But is a complete and utter 'niche' market enough to make a good living from ?

I've had two other requests for that today already.

Not a dig, just might want to put *click for info* or something similar.

...or maybe not everyone is as thick as I am.

you have mail. (if that's your real mail account in your profile).

Brant - cheap, light & strong.... thats the holy grail 😉

[dreams]I'd like a clean lined, rigid, SS for short arses, 29 front, 650b rear, 953[/dreams]

I've had two other requests for that today already.

not trying to dismiss you here, but lets assume you want a salary of say £20,000 a year.... that's a LOT of niche bikes you need to be flogging, once you add on overheads, parts, materials... you can't be making say £500 a bike... so you'd need to sell 40 of them to even begin with...

...or maybe not everyone is as thick as I am.

I am 😳

I might have another look now I know it's more than just a splash screen

I opened up the link earlier on my phone, and genuinely didn't consider clicking the logo to get further info.

Same!

Signed up.

What's the best way of sending you ideas?
The email addy in the confirmation post?

Numpty IT question I know.

that's a LOT of niche bikes you need to be flogging, once you add on overheads, parts, materials... you can't be making say £500 a bike... so you'd need to sell 40 of them to even begin with...

from an "informed" guess at the numbers, I dont think it's quite so hard to get to the margins if you are clear you are producing a v specific product targeted almost at a self-selecting audience. You wouldnt have to discount down to bare minimum margin to be "competitive" because price is not where you are fighting the competition.

Being a design and spec brand, almost on subscription product basis, rather than wholly a manufacturer would keep the fixed costs far far lower.

Guess we're all side-stepping the fact the website has a splash screen?

I opened up the link earlier on my phone, and genuinely didn't consider clicking the logo to get further info.

Not a dig, just might want to put *click for info* or something similar.

...or maybe not everyone is as thick as I am.

Is it better now?

Happy for your graphical help Jamie.

Heh...

[img] [/img]

Is it better now?

I think this is an interesting idea and wish you all the best, but if I can offer some constructive criticism: the fact I know - via STW - that this is a Brant Richards project gives it some credibility because I know what you've done in the past and you have some pedigree. Without that knowledge the site looks a bit off-putting.

Lose the Futurama GIF. Add in a contact telephone number. Put some biography in there to gain credibility to those who weren't directed there from STW. Lose the drop shadow 😉

Good luck

While you at it, change the strap to 'stealing your ideas'

Please make me a 20" evil sovereign with a modern headtube (for 26 inch wheels of course).

Euro - a new Sov is planed from Evil apparently

I'm sure a new Sovereign was planned from Evil about 53 times over the last few years.

I await my FUN short travel FS [s]26er[/s] 29er...

ho hum

[i]Please make me a 20" evil sovereign with a modern headtube (for 26 inch wheels of course).
[/i]
Sov is steel, shouldn't cost too much for a framebuilder to replace the standard headtube with a 44mm version.

Do they have the experience to build, for example, a FS bike? Can they match the price that Pact will secure through contacts and reasonable production run sizes?

I mean, there are already plenty of custom frame builders if you want something out of the ordinary?

And don't they make out they are the dogs danglies, I've dealt with two reliable ones ,one stateside (not sure if Lynskey counts) but there there did seem to be a lot of I'm in the premier league attitude about them which was pretty obvious before deciding which builder to go for , do they not realize cock wun in the china factory does the job just as well

I've had two other requests for that today already.

so already you've had 3 requests for the 'same' bike- who gets the royalty payment and the "incredible price"? Do you tell the 2nd, 3rd and subsequent submitters that's someones already bagged the deal so that the idea keeps it's integrity when people become cynical/sceptical?

so already you've had 3 requests for the 'same' bike- who gets the royalty payment and the "incredible price"? Do you tell the 2nd, 3rd and subsequent submitters that's someones already bagged the deal so that the idea keeps it's integrity when people become cynical/sceptical?

That's an interesting point that has occured to us. However, there's going to be more to this than just going "bagsy" on a project and writing an "I want" in two lines.

how many frames are the limited production runs you're looking at? 20? 100? is that overall or in each size?

I mean,there are many niches, but how niche is feasible?

blimey, just when others are cutting back on niche framed bikes, here's one that is "considerably more niche than you" - possibly. Updated Kilaeua SS for when this one gives up the ghost, please... Or is that just a custom frame, I'm not sure..

32" wheels on a hard tail could be interesting. Might have to work hard to get tyres.

http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/06/02/big-wheel-keep-on-rollin-walmart-offers-32-cruiser-bicycles/

Sounds like a complete nightmare to me tbh! The reason most bike mongers just stock std off-the-shelf bikes is because that makes things easy. Just the thought of having to please 15 different people, who all want a slightly different spec for slightly different reasons makes me stressed 😉

will there be a stw special?

[img] [/img]

Reinventing the wheel is becoming harder and harder it seems (Understandably)

I really cant see the numbers adding up but I suppose there will always be STW members with the spare cash to bankroll a new project like this to begin with, then.......well who knows.

26" Rigid
26" sus
29er
29er sus
650b
Fat Bikes

They all end up doing the same thing, some better and some worse than others. All brant is doing is starting another process. Its nothing new as stated before and unfortunately, if it was a successful business model it probably would have been used in the previous business he launched.

I give it 24-36mths tops. Then we will have another 2yrs of Brant back at one one and then he will relaunch his new version of an old subject again.

if it was a successful business model it probably would have been used in the previous business

Can't we say that about every new business model?

I can't immediately think of anything I'd necessarily want built, but I have thought that several times in my life, e.g:

- before Surly designed the Karate Monkey
- before IslaBike starting making kids bikes that look epic
- before Xtracycle built the EdgeRunner
- before Surly built the Ice Cream Truck

So I'm very willing to be surprised and delighted.

🙂

Miketually, yes of course we can.

Just sent Brant an idea myself....... 😀

3 already submitted.

One boring, one technically impossible (I think) and one which is absolute genius.
Ahem.

I'll see if I can come up with something a bit more sensible this week. 🙂

29 inch ragley ti basically.

brant - Member

No money up front. Unless you'd like to!

Newsletter coming tonight.

Get ideas in. We have two really solid ones already.

decent priced kids full suspension frame suitable for 24 inch wheels

I asked for mine to be yellow 8)

will there be a stw special?

FTFY.

[img] [/img]

Why give away your intellectual property with no upfront non-disclosure agreement or discussion of terms? Pop bands in the sixties signed royalty "agreements" and ended up with a pittance share of earnings. Has Brant suggested what royalty splits will range from yet?

As long as I get a bike that does what I want it to do for a decent price I don't care!!

Brant's going to crunch the numbers on whatever he designs so he'll put 90% of the work in anyway!

Has Brant suggested what royalty splits will range from yet?

Spot the Capitalist 😉

I will watch with curiosity, I have no bright ideas but it will be interesting to see what makes the cut! All the best.

Brant just so you know outlook put your email conformation in the junk file.

[img][URL= http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr188/GamerRiley/PACT.jp g" target="_blank">http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr188/GamerRiley/PACT.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL][/img]

10 minutes in and I'm a bike designer 😆

full suss, long chain stays low, slack, 120mm travel.

Great Idea. Good luck, I hope it goes well. 8)

Brant just so you know outlook put your email conformation in the junk file.

I'm not sure what you mean, but if you can forward me that to brant at pactbikes dot com I'll have a look.

Cheers

full suss, long chain stays low, slack, 120mm travel.

Great Idea. Good luck, I hope it goes well.

Cheers NickC

artists impression of the bike that will make me a millionaire in royalties.... er...surely?
[img] [/img]

I think its a very nice idea - hopefully it will be a genuine outlet for innovation with regular updates, and hopefully not just a token USP for a small non changing line up.

Having owned several of Brant's prevous designed frames, (I know like most of us on here) I'll be interested to see how it the process will work. Both On One and Ragley had/have some great frames but rightly or wrongly have publically let down by customer service or paint finish/quality control - both a result of 'stack em high sell em cheap' - not the actual design. Hopefully a more bespoke, limited run product will not have the same issues to contend with.

And nice to have a bike company back in Hebden - Just a shame you already used the Stoodley Pike logo!

Best of luck with it Brant.

Having owned an original mmmmbop I hope Brant returns to brilliant frames like that.
I think it is a brilliant idea. Good luck.

[i]"so already you've had 3 requests for the 'same' bike- who gets the royalty payment and the "incredible price"?"[/i]

I'd been wondering that myself, being as how I was the first to suggest it. 😛

[i]That's an interesting point that has occured to us. However, there's going to be more to this than just going "bagsy" on a project and writing an "I want" in two lines.[/i]

So, how much more detail do I need to give beyond simply "Rohloff CX frame" before I can claim my 10%? 😉

A few ideas;

Proper chain adjustment for SS or Rohloff, not using a tensioner.
A chain can need adjustment during an epic ride and EBBs can be impossible to move with a normal multitool, so that's sliding dropouts then.

Rohloff dropouts would be nice, but not a deal breaker, a Monkeybone works well.

[url= http://www.singularcycles.com/shop/index.php/catalog/product/gallery/image/528/id/176/ ]Modular cable guides[/url] with options for every possible combination of cable/hydraulic/electric brake or shifter.

Front & rear rack, mudguard and Salsa Anything Cage mounts, plus as many bottle cage mounts as can be fitted on every tube.

Overall, I suppose I'm thinking Rough Stuff meets Bikepacking, while still being suitable for commuting and looking like a CX bike.

So something along the lines of an aluminium version of this then?
[img] [/img]

A chain can need adjustment during an epic ride and EBBs can be impossible to move with a normal multitool, so that's sliding dropouts then.

I wouldn't bet against him.

Hey, [url= http://www.shandcycles.com/bikes/stoater-rohloff/ ]that Shand[/url] is pretty close to what I had in mind, apart from the £1500 price tag. 😕
I did wonder if I should have mentioned belt drive, but after having tried it and broken it myself, I wouldn't bother. Rohloff will only supply the adapter to approved frame manufacturers, and it limits the choice of chainstay length to match the available pulleys and belts, but some people might want it, so for the cost of a coupler, you might as well make it an option.

thisisnotaspoon, I've only used the internal expanding type, Bushnell and similar.
The bolt is in the end of the EBB, too close to the crank arm to get a bulky multitool hex key on. You'd need to carry a separate 4mm hex key.
Even then, and with the whole thing well copperslipped before assembly, I find it too tight to turn using the 5mm hex holes in the end. I use a pair of bent nose circlip pliers in two of the holes for extra leverage.

I'm intrigued by the idea, I've signed up but not had any email through yet, does all seem a little vague at the minute...

I don't believe I could ever front the costs for putting any of my own ideas into production, So it's not exactly "Giving away" IP.
If anything the model is weighted more in favour of anyone submitting their ideas, the possibility of deriving some royalties (any indicative percentages?) for no real personal financial or reputational risk... On the surface, at least, its a pretty sweet deal...

I like the name "Pact" it suggests a bit of honesty.

Brant, what precisely are you after from people:
-A wishlist/Spec'?
-Dimensioned drawings?
-Any specific Niches prefered Road/CX/MTB/BMX?
-what about materials?
-technical novelty?

Are there any real constraints on what you can develop or is this just a bit of a "dragnet", see what ideas come in and go from there?

I can't see how the figures will add up. What can us consumers come up with thats not already out there that will sell in numbers significant enough to make a load of money from it?

I've signed up but not had any email through yet

You can [url= http://us9.campaign-archive2.com/?u=2ef5ad7836aec4002b0a133c9&id=412bd2b594 ]read the first Pactbikes email online[/url].

Well he's completely ignored my suggestion of a titanium SWB recumbent - even offered to design it for him 😉

miketually - Member
I've signed up but not had any email through yet
You can read the first Pactbikes email online.

TBH, having read it, I'm not any clearer, still all seems a bit vague...

It makes perfect sense selling a product you already know is sold and there's a market for

thisisnotaspoon, I've only used the internal expanding type, Bushnell and similar.
The bolt is in the end of the EBB, too close to the crank arm to get a bulky multitool hex key on. You'd need to carry a separate 4mm hex key.
Even then, and with the whole thing well copperslipped before assembly, I find it too tight to turn using the 5mm hex holes in the end. I use a pair of bent nose circlip pliers in two of the holes for extra leverage.

Fair enough, the Swift style one didn't have that problem, think I just put a smear of waterproof grease on it to keep it silent, unlike the expanding type there's nothing to release so turning was easy (I did it by hand on the external cups untill i figured out there was an allen key socket!).

I can't see how the figures will add up. What can us consumers come up with thats not already out there that will sell in numbers significant enough to make a load of money from it?

Maybe just getting in ahead of the curve? 650b+/29ers are already out there (RM Sherpa), but no hardtails AFAIK. But I reckon it could be a popular niche in the future. Ditto a disk braked racing bike, appart from Colnago bling and next years CAAD10 there's only commuter/cross bikes. And I still think even a budget priced rim braked aluminium race bike frameset, like an updated P-X team alu (not the sportive RT-58 alu) would sell if it were half the £800 price of a CAAD 10 frame which can't be a hard price point to hit. Appart from the Bird Zero is there even another 650b aluminum hardcore hardtail, and there'd be thing's I'd tweek to that if I were specing it (mainly make it an inch longer).