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Im thinking of switching my current Orange Four frame over to a P7 as I fancy a hardtail again. I had a Crush for a short while about 18 months ago and didnt really grow to live it, felt a bit harsh (compared to the On One 45650b I had previously) which I put down to the ally frame.
Does anyone have direct experience of the Crush and P7, who can say if the P7 is a slightly more forgiving ride?
I really like the feel of my Pickenflick Ti CX bike and am wondering if a steel P7 will give me a better feel than the crush, or if i really need a Ti MTB
Kingdom Vendetta
In before somebody else
No direct experience of p7/Crush, but owned a few aluminium hardtails and steel bikes. The latter definitely ride better.
I’ve been riding a 650b P7 for three years and it’s mint. 140mm Pikes up front and I use it for everything, from cheeky tech steeps through to 30-milers in the hills on rocky trails and moorland singletrack. I live in the South Pennines (Calderdale) and ride all year round so it’s had a hard life but it’s never missed a beat. Fun, fast and good for long rides. I have a full-sus too but there’s nothing I wouldn’t ride on the P7 - just a bit harsher on those big days out and more sketchy in big rocks, obviously. I had a SubZero before and the P7 is way nicer to ride (though to be fair it’s got bigger wheels and better geometry and components).
had an old p7 635 IIRC, post CEN, went to a genesis alpitude 853, and then a chameleon ( 2013 version, still 26 ). the chameleon transmitted more HF vibration, but apart from that rode very similarly to the others, and was about 1kg lighter, which was nice. also i didn't break the chameleon. steel is useful for low volume manufacturing. it doesn't make a better bike ( these days ). any minimal flex you get out of the frame will be dwarfed by 2.4" of tyre flex. i would look at the crush, or the airdrop bitmap.
Del makes a good point. Big volume tyres probably make more of a difference that frame material nowadays. I run a 2.4 Maxxis on my P7 - it’s great. Sure the Crush is too tho. My nephew has one and he loves it.
P7 is a top bike. I’ve done down hill flat out by my standards,40 miles cross country days and 4 weeks through Nepal bikepacking on it. Haven’t touched my FS since I bought it a few years ago and ride it most weekends in Wales or the Lakes. Not ridden a crush but for me aluminium is too harsh on my back though set up and bigger tyre availability may help with that. For a HT it does it all for me. Other opinions are available of course.
Another happy P7 owner, nice and comfy and very stable. It’s an easy bike to live with.
Just a quick heads up, Sunset cycles have some P7 frames on sale at very good prices ( just bought one)
I too have a Orange 4, but just love steel hardtails, and couldn’t resist at the prices they were selling them for.
good on the OP and all others for choosing a hardtail.
OP, what are you going to use the hardtail for?
Crush is not intended to be a comfortable bike, it’s intended to be a hard hitting HHT but there are a number of options that cover the same use without the harshness.
Orange appear to have held frame pricing better than some, but unless you’re particularly committed to Orange, it’s definitely worth looking at Stanton, Cotic etc.
I recently acquired a 2019 Orange Crush Comp. The first thing I'd say is that it is an absolutely stunning looking MTB. However, I'd tend to agree with the above sentiments that it is not exactly the most comfortable of rides.
I'm trying to get back into mountain biking after many sedentary years and I decided I wanted to spend a bit of money and get a nice bike and ended up buying the Crush Comp on impulse. After some initially harsh rides, I replaced the stem with a shorter Renthal Apex 31mm, the bar with a Renthal Fatbar 30 mm riser and the saddle with a Fabric Radius Elite. The ride is much more comfortable for me now and I'm starting to feel more at home on the bike.
However, I'm still not convinced the Orange Crush is a good choice for long duration XC riding. I'm thinking along the lines that I'll probably use my Orange Crush for shorter, more intense riding and I might get something a bit more suited to XC for longer duration 20 km+ stints. Horses for courses.
I haven’t read the thread properly, but I rode I 16 P7, which I loved, I cracked it, it was warranted and I decided to get a new bike, I looked at the geo and ordered an 18 Crush, it looked ace but was soooooo harsh, I ordered a P7 frame swapped the bits and I’m back in love.
No was I’d buy an alloy HT for serious use again.
Thanks for the replies, some useful feedback.
The bike will have the same duties as my current Four, local xc rides during the week, weekend rides around Epping and Broxbourne, occasional trips to wales for BPW/ Afan/ Cwmcarn.
Good to read the P7 wont be as harsh as a crush.
Stantons and Cotics look good, but not available in orange.... (the colour not the brand).
a Ti hardtail like a Kingdom would be good, but just need to find the extra money to make that happen.....
@adamf2016 what did you end up choosing in the end? Ive been looking at HHT such as the Bird Zero and most are aluminium but have seen a 2019 P7 for a good price and notice its steel.
I've read historic threads on here and the above posts which say steel is heavier than aluminium but more compliant, I currently ride a heavy enduro bike and would like something that accelerates quickly when pedalling and is good for pumping the ground for speed.
I bought a Crush frame from Bikescene in Jan and built it up with some light(ish) parts. I've been using it for some local rides during the lockdown and its a great Hardtail. The back end is a bit harsh but not more so than any other alu hardtail. 150mm forks at the front. Fast, agile and just fun to ride. I got the light blue frame and it looks lovely. Ive had some steel hardtails over the years (Cotic/Pace) and yes, the frame material does play a part/steel is more forgiving but I would quite happily do a 3hr ride on the Crush. Running DT Swiss wheels and Maxxis High roller 2.4 tyres.
I use my 18 Crush for commuting / lockdown / holiday trail centre rides. Been taking up regular 20 mile gravel / roads. Running a 2.6 semi slick on the back and it is fine. It's not a FS, but very versatile. Never ridden a steel framed hardtail.
I've just ordered the Clockwork evo in 27.5 as it seemed to tick my boxes, I've ridden numerous alu and steel hardtail over the year's and never found the difference life changing. But perhaps that's just me. I did look at the p7 but seemed aimed a little more hardcore than my usual peak bimblings. Happy to update once it arrives.
I’ve just ordered the Clockwork evo in 27.5 as it seemed to tick my boxes, I’ve ridden numerous alu and steel hardtail over the year’s and never found the difference life changing.
2019 or 2020? I'm with you until I got my 2019 version, LLS was the difference for me - it feels such an effortless fun bike.
I've got a P7 29er. Took a while to get used to the LLS geom but love it now.
I'd like an Orange but I ride hardtails with 2.8 rubber. If a bought a 29 frame to fit them in, would I need a 29 fork? What's the difference between a 275 and a 29 fork? Just a small amount of length in the legs?
@Kryton57 I've ordered the 2020, but my comment was more referencing the difference between alu and steel frames rather than the geometry. I know some folk are very steel is real, but I've had good and bad steel and alu frames. I can't wait to get the clockwork it looks a hoot.
Yep! Maybe because my other bikes a slender race bike but the Clockwork Evo looks more “sturdy” but not heavy in the flesh, and that front is way out there. It takes everything with a lot of confidence. I hope you enjoy it post up some pics when it arrives!