[Closed] Overtraining?

I listened to a podcast and a guy was talking about hrv ( heart rate variability) that can be monitored to see if you are overtraining. Basically monitoring the time between the beats of your heart. Overdoing it can cause this to alter as its overworked your nervous system. I don't know loads about it other than what I heard but might be worth looking into if you already have a heart rate monitor.

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/how-monitoring-your-heart-rate-variability-helps-you-avoid-overtraining/

I finished a 6 week training block yesterday.  I’ve been tired - yawning by 3pm - every day this week, and worked hard through Thursdays and Fridays session.  I feel exactly like you do - achy, tired, low motivation to do anything and clumsy.  Today I’m basically doing sod all.

I’m coached - next week is a rest week before I commence a new 12 week block.  I’m instructed to do 3 x 30 minute spins not zone specific and 1 20 minute run over the week.  I’ve also instructions to have a beer or two and rest mentally.

Thats quite typical.  Its the rest period that is when your body develops and adapts.  You need the rest otherwise your adaptation will suffer and you’ll just grind yourself into the ground with little to show for it.   As my coach says, rest properly and you’ll come back ready to tear it up!

A few HIIT sessions? That may be the problem. 'You can't train a tired muscle' and a worthwhile HI session will take a few days to fully recover from. If you can do 2x 1hr HI sessions in 3 days you're either young and well adapted already or not working hard enough, perhaps, or you're probably over-training.

1hr HI needs to be so hard that you're utterly done in at the end of it, 25-30 mins plus of that hour spent at your limit, tbh I can't do that off the turbo unless I'm doing reps of a few specific hills and I do nothing above Z2 for 2 days after. Depends what you're training for though so my take on it may have zero to do with your needs - I'm 40+ and tend to train for endurance over day/s rather than crit or CX fitness. I'd average 12hrs a week this time of year and only do 1hr of proper HI work on the turbo if training for an event. 2hrs brisk riding maybe, SS MTB, that kind of thing for variety. Rest is Z2 on road or easy trails.

I often wonder if part of the challenge to many of those inclined toward racing and training plans is the urge to do more and then over-train. That may not be you, but anyway, better to do 10% too little than 10% too much.

I average 9-10 hours a week over the last eight weeks. Been doing sweet spot workouts at high percentages of ftp and haven’t felt like I’m overtraining and I’ve seen decent performance gains.

It may not be overtraining rather than training wrong, have you set a ftp and are you planning your sessions around it?

I've got the free Elite HRV app on my tablet, but I'm awful at remembering to run it daily and even more awful at remembering to run it first thing in the morning while lying in bed.

Stravistix (free plugin for Google Chrome) will give you tons of data about your rides, plus if you use a heart rate monitor and/or power meter, it has a Multisports Fitness Trend that assigns fitness/fatigue/form to your last 42 days. if form goes to -30 or more negative, you are over-training.

https://cricklesorg.wordpress.com/ is another freebie, with its own version of fitness/fatigue/form, along with other info about your rides. I've not worked out where over-training works on its scale. I think this site will estimate ride efforts if something goes wrong with your heart rate monitor, or you simply forget to wear it.

Premium Strava has a fitness/fatigue/form guide too, more negative than -10 is considered over-training IIRC.

I've done ~32.5 hours riding since 5th Jan, when my week of a stomach bug finally cleared, but the weeks have been quite varied (from ~3 to 13 hours). This last week or so, I've had very little energy and done far less riding, despite not showing cold symptoms and my 13 hour week was week commencing 8th Jan on annual leave.

Yet bizarrely, I free-rode on Zwift on Thursday to the radio tower and my FTP was increased from 238W to 254W, while yesterday I did 40mins of "The Gorby" based on 254W (which felt surprisingly comftable) and Crickles increased my LTHR from 161 to 168.

I've only been riding for fitness for ~13 months and I don't like taking rest days, I'd rather do a very low intensity ride (it felt so wrong not riding over new year for a week). I bought a turbo trainer just before Xmas, which has made it far easier to ride indoors during the carp weather, but as an SAD sufferer I really need to kick my self outdoors far more than I've done this last month... Even if it is a gentle pootle for 30-45mins.

...possible as well: biking in cold air / rain seems to be so different from summer biking.

One complete day out biking in the cold: feel like a dog the next day! It's much worse when I don't drink isostar stuff when biking.

Cold air / rain / winter training is strange. Rain: don't have an explanation why rain has such an effect. Sounds weird.

<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 12px;">I often wonder if part of the challenge to many of those inclined toward racing and training plans is the urge to do more and then over-train.</span>

Hard days should not be too easy and easy days should not be hard.  Now that I've beed through several cycles with a coach its pretty obvious you train ****ing hard - I was down to -17TSS last week and -25TSS this week, then you rest very very easy.   By the time I start my next block I'm gagging to get on a bike and my coach is tearing me a new one trying to make sure I don't.

Good article on the subject here:

http://www.triathlete.com/2013/07/training/checking-your-intensity_59521

.. Nobody's post is a good for some perspective - there's loads of analysis available if it works for you, my take on it is based on having enough time to get the gains I'm after when needed and not using any analysis. Overtraining is just felt as fatigue and cold symptoms and avoided via experience rather than any numbers, tbh I rarely work that hard at it anyway.

If you're training on a time limit then sweetspots, accurate FTPs and power measurement etc must help. When you say 12hrs a week I assume you're not time pressured or you're training for endurance.

"Hard days should not be too easy and easy days should not be hard"-

Very true. To go fast, first you must slow down, etc. I got a lot quicker overall (from a modest base it should be said) when my rides became either much slower or much harder. The balance is the tricky bit, where real training experience from a coach etc comes in I expect. Every ride being in Z3-4 for 2-3hrs does zero more for you after a certain level is gained.

Thanks for the input gents.

In answer to a few questions-

Yes my hiit is based on ftp.

Few one hour hiit should he read as 2. Sorry if this wasn't clear. I did three on one week when I didn't do the night ride hence the "few".

Yep I'm aware of the easy and hard stuff, have read a lot of Matt Fitzgerald books. 80/20 running is basically him repeating the same thing for 200 pages phrased the same. Go easy 80% hard 20% don't do anything in zone 3.

Saying that I don't think I've put it into practice very well. I think I'm probably doing alot of my easy work a bit too hard.

I'm off out in a min. Going to do 4 hours but religiously between 140 and 150bpm

Oh and yes I'm training for endurance at the minute. Fred Whitton

My view is just too much too soon. Over training requires a huge amount of stress over a long period.

As above, I think as a professional you can risk overtraining. You end up suffering for months and months, having a mental breakdown and then qutting the sport. Pretty serious stuff IIRC.

Your problem is lack of fitness and doing too much too soon. Your body is stressed as it's not used to this new routine.

I would probably knock the HIIT stuff on the head as it sounds like it's tiring you out and I can't see it being of any use for a sportive that's just a range of steady efforts for 112 miles.

Even 140-150 seems high for an easy day.

As someone who is finally coming out of the back end of suffering a horrible 14-15 months following Overtraining, it is really worth listening to your body and looking for the signs. After gradually getting fitter and fitter and doing it the right way, with a set training plan, i stupidly thought the best way to train to do an event like the TCR or similar that i really could have a crack at was to commute to and from work, and to mix the sessions up with days where it solely zone 2 and days where i'd be sprinting the climbs and to the traffic lights to really increase my miles and also for the mental side of getting up at 5am each day whatever the weather, i was doing 58 miles a day monday to friday and events at the weekend, on top of that i was often not sleeping well due to a T1 diabetic daughter and her care and a few other factors, and good diet went out of the window.

My thought process was "last year i rode 500km in a day and did numerous 150-200 day rides, 58 miles is nothing", but it was the accumulative effect.

After about 14 months i had to stop, the minute i sat down i was falling asleep and my mood was bad. So i stopped and even after 6-7 months, i was getting on the bike and legs had nothing, i suffered depression, mood swings, put on loads of weight and just had no enthusiasm to ride bike, worst thing though was immune system was shot, someone only had to say "cold" and i'd catch it, numerous bouts of tonsillitis, even the flu-jab knocked me for six for 2 weeks.

Only in the last few months have i got back on bike, and am just riding for fun really, but with a goal of doing Torino-Nice in September and a few other events that will be tough no doubt, but that are fun and not just about how can i ride..

Moral of the story, it takes a long time to recover from, listen to your body, speak to a coach or expert and don't be an idiot like me!!

Just got back.

5.5 hours or thereabouts on a muddy mtb keeping the hr under 150. Great fun... seriously!

Nice and easy, felt like I could have done another 4 hours at the end.

See how I feel tomorrow; was giving it some thought and I think it might be the 2 four hour rides back to back last weekend, not as low hr as they should have been with a few race sprints against mates. Then did hiit on Tuesday has left me knackered for the rest of the week.

I'm going to carry on for now.

Add my name to the too much too soon rather than overtraining list.

You'd usually expect several weeks-to-months of increasing or high load training before you'd start to suffer from overtraining. A few days of getting your head kicked in (either by others, or by yourself) is just "being knackered". Or coming down with something.

I *suspect" you'll be back to normal after 3-5 days of very easy training, or popping your feet up.

Or you'll have a bloody rotten cold and mucus everywhere.

One person above mentioned fitmess/fatigue/form for Strava premium.

I've got premium..

Can't find that function?

"Even 140-150 seems high for an easy day"

Depends on the person's max and also their VT threshold. Mine's 190 ish with BY at 172.

145 is perfect z2 territory; all day pace

Strava Premium> Training> Fitness & Freshness

The Polar website is good when worn with heart rate monitor, essentially plots fatigue on a graph, tells you when you are OK to train easily or good to go full bore again, it adapts as you get fitter, I found it more accurate than the Strava site.