Rather than debate the theory and talk about Biopace, I thought this could be a thread that gave ride impressions on the new batch of narrow-wide 1x oval rings that are surfacing.
Seems like a reasonably cheap and simple way to test it all out.
These are the ones that I know about:
Absolute black:
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Bionicon's B Lab:
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Anybody running them?
No, but also interested in user feedback
No, but I run a GoldTec Onekey on my SS, I'd do it on my geared bike if it fits and the RM can handle it.
Yes In running a 4 arm Absolute Black Oval - Running both either single speed or with a Internal gear Hub
The AB is propper lush, runs very smooth (smoother for me that the BETD One Key) Not tried any others
I've got one of the Absolute black ones on one of my bikes. I've only ridden it twice but I like it. Weirdly, if anything, it feels rounder than a round ring and after a few seconds isn't noticeable unless you look down. Going back to a round ring afterwards you notice the tough spots that the oval ring is trying to eliminate.
Used Goldtec oval ring on my bike as SS (+2T over usual round ring) and geared options for 18 months or so. It does 'add range' to a gear ie at low RPM straining or near spin-out stage so I can see sense in popping one on a 1x bike, but the advantage I get on the SS imo is less pronounced when you can keep a reasonable cadence via the gears. For SSs they're brilliant. I guess it depends how much hard climbing at low RPM you do with the gears you have. The theory makes sense to me anyway, having said all that a ride I did a while back with a triple didn't feel any worse off for being back on round rings, with a wide range to cover all the climbs all was good.
Interesting - thanks.
I guess I'd be running a 30t round or a 32t oval, so maybe I would notice the difference - lots of very steel local climbs. I use my granny on a triple a lot.
robinlaidlaw - I guess that's exactly what I was wanting to hear.
Anyone running full sus, oval and clutch? Any chain issues?
On my SS the benefit I notice is when spinning up to attack a climb - it's faster and smoother.
But I suspect there is a continuous JRA benefit, perhaps less noticeable.
The theory makes perfect sense to me - we evolved to step or run, not move our feet in perfect circles.
Rode on one for about a year as a courier. Raved about it at the time, I think it was just the honeymoon of trying something new. Went back to a round ring afterwards and discovered I couldn't spin properly.
I wouldn't run one again.
Edit: Biopace. Realise that's slightly different
Biopace very different and very wrong!
Got the AB one here, definitely think it helps reduce fatigue for long hard efforts. Think there is less benefit JRA, it's really when you are pushing hard that you get the benefit. I've got the rotor ones on the TT bike and the AB one on the xc race bike. I've not bothered on the road bikes or the trail bikes.
Mine has been delivered to my parents in the UK and they'll bring it over later this week, looking forward to trying it out on my MTB.
I've got an Absolute Black one waiting to go on my Stumpy hardtail, just need to get around to putting it on. Ditching the double so hope I've got the correct chainring (34t), get most places on the 38t outer but obviously I've reqd the granny on the longer steeper stuff.
Oval rings get "invented" and pushed by manufacturers every 20 years or so and have done pretty much ever since bikes first started using chains. They have never caught on. That should tell us something. A year or two and they'll be gone again.
Goldtech here. Very happy. Been on there a couple of years.
Bought from a tattooed chap from the North of Staffordlandshire.
They have never caught on.
Didn't Wiggo win the TdF with oval rings?
Sundayjumper, I'm hoping everyone I race against feels the same way 🙂
They have never caught on.
They've caught on with me.
Ive been riding with Tazzys/Goldtec onekey for a year or so now, SS here on the malverns. Its a real boost for getting up some of the steeper stuff. Personally I dont see the point much when sat or on a geared bike, but SS it makes v good sense.
saying they've never caught on is a load of crap! have many pro's use rotor chainrings?!!? I've used goldtec but they don't play nice with clutch mechs, waiting for my AB ring
I've used goldtec but they don't play nice with clutch mechs, waiting for my AB ring
How are they different, that one works and the other doesn't?
Has everyone who has tried it gone up a cog size? I'm running 32t front cog. Tempted to go oval nw when this ring dies. Would 34t be the way to go?
chain growth is different between rings depending on profile
How do the singlespeeders cope with the chain growth?
Is there any chain growth for singlespeeders?
If the rings are symmetrical, then surely your feeding the chain back at the same rate as your pulling it?
Or have I got that completely wrong?
How do the singlespeeders cope with the chain growth?
Not clear on your question. The chain doesn't grow. At any specific location, chain tension does vary throughout the pedal cycle, I set the chain slack to be acceptable at that point. It works.
The rule of thumb is to be able to spin about 2 crank rotations by hand. Less than that and the chain may be a bit tight.
Fitted one last night and on the spin round the block test it felt odd.....not nice odd neiver (luckily its not on my bike).
Anyone heard about the DOVAL rings??
Was looking at the 110BCD 40t for the roadrat...
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The rule of thumb is to be able to spin about 2 crank rotations by hand. Less than that and the chain may be a bit tight.
What does that mean?
so do you have to leave the chain slacker than you would normally to take up some slack at the worst point?
It means you use the point of tightest chain as the benchmark to set the chain tension.
It's possible with some rings the overall chain tightness varies throughout the cycle, with others perhaps chain tightness at one point (e.g. top) is counter balanced with looseness at another (e.g. below). I'm not sure, depends on the ring design I would think.
BTW even with a round ring, tension usually varies throughout the cycle. It's easy to observe if using a sprung tensioner, it moves.
Any spiderless ovals to fit middleburn?
The goldtec and AB rings are all about the same % oval so chain tension won't vary between them. The main difference between them is where the max radius is in relation to the crank, it's a bit later in the pedal stroke on the goldtec from what I can see, about 15 degrees past the others.chain growth is different between rings depending on profile
Yes slacker when min radius is at ~90deg to the chain run / stay, same max tension when min radius is aligned with chain run / stay. Makes no difference overall though, still tight on the top when you pedal )so do you have to leave the chain slacker than you would normally to take up some slack at the worst point?
It's definitely caught on with me. There's an interesting research paper written by someone showing that everyone can benefit from oval rings, regardless of ability. Not sure where I found it, but good writing nonetheless. She now works with Garmin-Sharp.
Goldtec do a middleburn direct mount to replace an uno ring. With regards to ss set up, you adjust the tension when the drive side crank is in the 40clock position. This works a treat and stops any chain drop (same set up instrucrions for rotor, goldtec etc..) go up two teeth on the chain ring with an oval is the usual rule of thumb so if you ride a 32 round go 34 oval and so on.Any less and you dont get the benefit on a single speed of increased gear inch and cadence for the same "perceived" effort. Nothing is for free or magical it just doesn't feel as hard and that on an ss makes a big mental difference on a gurn or bust climb
jameso the goldtec is the equivalent of postion 2 on a rotor q ring which sewms to work best with a singlespewd set up for moat folks. Certainly when I was running the prototype rings it was the best compromise for a range of bikes. I guess having adjustable postion falls perilously close to legal Issues with rotor
I used a Qring for about a year on the MTB, didn't feel very smooth when pedalling, almost like a step machine. Didn't notice any benefits, gone back to a round ring.
I'd guess how well you get on with them depends on your natural pedaling style, some don't seem to feel any benefits and they seem to be the more smooth, fluid high-cadence riders. Strong low-cadence riders or clumsy mashers seem to like them more.There's an interesting research paper written by someone showing that everyone can benefit from oval rings, regardless of ability
Tazzy, seems you got it right, I like where the goldtec puts the crank at the 36T radius. The others peak a bit sooner. Can't remember where I read about leverage vs leg-speed / momentum (something you linked to / sent maybe) but it made a good argument for the max radius being later in the down-stroke, paticularly for stood-up climbing.
Interesting about cadence/smoothness.
I'm definitely higher cadence than the people I ride with, but don't know whether that automatically translates into smoothness. Although the reason I spin, is to make technical sections easier, so perhaps it does.
Got an Absolute black chain ring as a birthday present a few months ago in a 32, now have another one in 34 for xc race bike. Really rate it for my riding, works especially well at climbing low cadence in slippy conditions. No issue as yet on both a 100 mm FS with a clutch mech and a hardtail without a clutch, not dropped a chain yet.
I felt it is a distraction initially but soon went away and I have no problems swapping onto normal now.
I am fairly low cadence and don't spin through techy sections more tick tock.
Always struggled a bit with chain retention with my Goldtec ring. Set it up verging on 'kin tight when the cranks at 4 but when pedalling over off camber-y rooty stuff the chain kept jumping off. Maybe the ebb was slipping or something, might try it again.
no problems swapping onto normal now
Yes, I hadn't thought of that. I'll only be 1x on one bike - leaving 2 other bikes with round rings.
Still curious about this... Are there any other narrow/wide, 104bcd options, before I buy an absoluteblack?
The AB ones are lovely - have 34t on my Jones SS
Someone was also asking about the Doval rings. I've got 2 40ts on my cross bikes - one SS & one 1x. They're both good, no dropped chains & I find the difference on the SSCX very noticeable.
Are there any other narrow/wide, 104bcd options, before I buy an absoluteblack?
I thought GoldTec were working on one?
. Are there any other narrow/wide, 104bcd options, before I buy an absoluteblack?
This one:
http://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/blabs-oval-narrowwide-offset-chainring/
these two videos will show you how it works and that the chain tension on the single speed is with very minimal variance.
[url=
Oval singlespeed[/url]
[url=
oval Sram spiderless on XX1 drivetrain[/url]
Quick question; when sizing your chain, does it matter if the oval chain ring is in the vertical position?
Also, if anyone is interested, I have a spare (new) B Labs 32T oval chainring for sale. Get in contact if interested
The B Labs chain ring is the direct mount version.
First ride today on a 34t Absolute Black ring, really couldn't tell the difference on the flat or when going downhill but noticed it just felt ever so slightly smoother when climbing and a good chunk nicer when you're just kinda hoofing through a sharp steep bit in an unideal gear. It definitely didn't feel any worse on the flat though. Didn't lose the chain and it's not noisey. Overall pleased, it was bloody grim outside though with snow on parts of the trail...
[url= https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7469/16230600346_90af2f3a63.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/129593813@N03/16230600346/ ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/129593813@N03/ ]monkeyfudger[/url], on Flickr
So am I right in thinking a 32t one feels like a 34 through a portion of the pedal stroke?
FWIW - here is Pinkbike/Richard Cunningham's take on it:
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/absolute-black-oval-chainring-review.html
I'm been running an AB 32t one for a month or two now, firstly in place of a 30t N/W ring with gears. It felt strange/different for about 10 mins, then became unnoticeable. Climbing power/speed feels better. I've now switched the bike over to SS, and it runs very nicely. The chain does tighten and loosen slightly through 360 rotation, but I've set chain length so that it is fine at its tightest. Not dropped or skipped yet, so pretty happy with it.
I've had a couple of rides, circa 5 hours, on mine. 34t 1*10 on a 29er.
After the initial 15 minutes of it feeling really quite odd, ( I'm old enough to remember Biopace), I settled into riding with it and found zero difference on smooth trails/fire roads, either up or down hill, and at all cadences.
However I really like the way it seems to enable me to ke pedaling through bumpy rooty ground, the kind of awkward terrain that can slow you down in a race if you're not completely focused.
Definitely going to continue with it.
Been running 32 and 34 Absolute Blacks on a couple of 29ers for a good few hundred miles and I'm a convert. I notice the difference on any sort of climb that needs a bit of finesse or just low cadence grunt work. Not dropped a chain yet either.
Mate who is a big lad and very poor pedal stroke, so bad that can see power pulses in soft ground, had a go with one and noticed a huge difference. Still not put his hand in his pocket yet..
Very tempted by this, lots of sharp steep stuff locally.. I run a 36t normally, if I went 34t AB reckon it'd be easy as a 32t which I don't really want, anyone know of any good cheap 104BCD 36t or 38t rings?
I'll admit this is where I get confused. If I were to replace my 38T with an oval 38T would it be easier at certain parts or harder at others in comparison?
I'm also a little unsure of what to go for as i'm interested in the AB one.Going from a double 36/24 and 9 speed and tend to ride in the 36 on most stuff . So should i go 32 or 34t?
Anyone know if the goldtec oval Shimano chainrings fit a middleburn spider less crank (rs7) the splines look identical in the pic
For what it's worth I had a 22/24 inner (not really sure to be honest) and 38 outer on the XC bike, could manage most Scottish trail centre style stuff on the 38 and went for a 34 oval.
My understanding of the 'benefit' of the oval ring is that when you have a 32T fitted and you are climbing it feels like you are pedalling a 32T but you are in fact pedalling the equivalent of a 34T at the power point of your pedal stroke thus propelling you further over the ground.
I am happy to have this shot down in flames as I profess to.... guessing.
What I cannot even guess is the effect it will have on the suspension.
Will it increase/decrease chain growth?
Will it make the suspension less/more active over rough ground when pedalling hard?
Etc...
Tricky, goldtec direct mount to middleburn.
Cheers taz.. Can't seem to find them on the site?
Can anyone explain the difference between these modern rings and the old biopace ones that everyone says were rubbish?
PrinceJohn - Aren't they 90 degrees different. So where the biopace had their smallest radius, the new ones have their biggest radius and vice versa
Just installed my Bionicon 32T B-Ring today.. was going 1x10 anyway so seemed rude not to try it!
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Not particularly noticeable on the 'ride around the garden' test, but will hopefully get out for a proper ride tomorrow. Not as ovalised as the AB ones either so not as pronounced an effect.
PrinceJohn - Aren't they 90 degrees different. So where the biopace had their smallest radius, the new ones have their biggest radius and vice versa
?
So why does that make them better?
The idea of the oval ring is that it effectively gives you a bigger gear during the part of the pedal stroke where you develop the most power. That being when the crank you're pushing down on is slightly past horizontal, around 1/3 of the way through the pedal stroke circle (starting from the top). They then give you a smaller gear through the part of the stroke where you don't put in any power, when you're feet are going over the top and under the bottom. Simply put, this means that you get much smoother power delivery and much less of a 'choppy' feeling as you pedal. To be clear, oval rings won't change how much power you can put out, they just even out the delivery. The old Shimano Biopace rings, as others have pointed out, were 90 degrees out. They gave a smaller gear during the part of the pedal stroke where you develop the most power - completely backwards to the current crop.
I use Rotor Q-Rings on my singlespeed and the road bike, couldn't go back! The chain tension is a little questionable on the ss, The chain wrap on the ring varies slightly as you go around, but it's a small enough difference that it still works. The only reason I don't have one on the XC bike too is that I can't find one with enough teeth for my archaic 26er!
Have a look at [url= http://sheldonbrown.com/biopace.html ]this on Biopace[/url]. Idea is different to these oval rings and is meant for different application. Generally regarded as a bit of a fail though.
Tricky, give me a kick on facebook and I'll see what I can sort for you.
I love when folks catch up...and to think a couple of years ago I was a snake oil merchant for suggesting that rotor q and goldtec rings worked a treat...
I still have a 48t biopace chainring in the shed 😳
I have a Doval 40t on the commuter. Works well. Subtle but smoother at bottom dead centre, especially when out of the saddle. Going to try a AB on the 29er next.
IMO the primary reason oval rings have taken so long to catch on is that biopace was a mess, and now 1x10 and 1x11 is popular it opens the door again.
I love when folks catch up...and to think a couple of years ago I was a snake oil merchant for suggesting that rotor q and goldtec rings worked a treat...
Pffft..... you are only 120+ years too late:
Sadly I'm old enough (and sad.enough) to have saved both my Biopae and Highpath rings! You, know just in case one might need them, come back in fashion etc.. Might build up an original Stumpy mk2 with its original parts, inc. Biopace one day.
Are BETD / Goldtec still making these. I've been looking and every time I check they seem to be out of stock. i got a onekey off Tazzy a couple or three years back and have ridden it nearly into submission, so time to get a new one.
get a absolute black over goldtec, closer to qx-1, cheaper, thick/thin & likely to be in stock more often. loving my spiderless and seems to work the mech out less, ditched goldtec with type 2 mech as chain growth was too much
I still have a direct mount B Labs 32T ring going spare if anyone is interested....
I was looking at some on ebay the other day that looked as if they had been melted.
More than just ovalised, but squashed and pulled into an odd shape.
I still have a direct mount B Labs 32T ring going spare if anyone is interested....
That's not the 104BCD one is it?
No this is the spiderless one. Much better if you have the right cranks. Lighter, simpler...
Bugger! Won't fit my XT cranks then 🙁
