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So I'm in the market for a new fs trail bike and I've narrowed it down to these two. I'm thinking that the 'Dale is a more xc orientated and balanced type whilst the orange is a harder hitting 'fun' bike?
Would probably go for the st4 but for a couple of things, namely reports of horrible chainsuck and a flexy rear end - mind you these comments stem mainly from an mbr review!
Would really like some views from owners of both, pics of course would be welcome!
Oh and is there anything else I should be considering? Absolute max of £3k and don't want a nice frame with compromises elsewhere to hit a price point if that makes sense.
Cheers
Yoss
The RZ is a great bike, due to that backbone thing that Cannondale use it tracks real nice.
I wouldn't be too put off by the XC bias of the RZ, a couple of mods can make it a great trail / fun bike.
Jim
The guys at Dirt rate the Rize and they've been ragging one way beyond it's xc roots
This is my ST4:
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Never ridden a Rize, so can't compare, but the ST4 is excellent. Rode it yesterday with a bunch of swapped kit (forks, wheels) and it was so much fun! I've yet to find it flexy, certainly my old Cove Hustler felt more flexy at the back than the ST4. I have experienced some chainsuck though but don't know if that's down to worn chainrings (inherited XT cranks with the bike and fitted 3yr old XTR chainset). Really quiet bike over rough stuff too, which is nice! It's not light, though. Don't know of exact weight but I think the frame it a little lardy. Feels solid when riding though, which I like.
Anyone know how much the rize weighs?
26 lbs for the RZ.
That ST4 is the previous, and better looking, model.
The rz will be better value, especially if you look around for a 2010 model. I was looking for something similar earlier this year and was torn between the rose jabba wood, the rz 120 and the scott spark. Eventually went with the spark as it was a good deal and it is actually pretty versatile as well as being light.
Have you considered a Fuel EX8 or above?
The DCRV rear shock is awesome, really plush and feels laike it has much more travel than it actually has. I love mine and you'll get a decent kit spec with it for the price. I have the EX8 2010 with XT drivetrain, Fox 32s etc. bikeradar voted it their 2010 trail bike of the year giving it 4.5 out 5. I think the current EX* is about £2300
I have a new 09 st4, not had it long but seems to be pretty good. Like the fact that it's long, low and slack. Climbs ok too.
What a load of shit that Bikeradar review is! 😕
H'mm that's an odd review. I've had both an '10 and '11 frame. My view is the new frame is significantly improved in terms of stiffness and geometry. The head angle is slacker than the older one (only .5 deg tho), the rear end is noticeably stiffer and the whole bike is more fun to ride. Absolutely no chainsuck on mine and it's been through a winter of mud and filth.
I felt the new model was what the first one should have been. The first BR review (which was Seb Rogers I think) really liked it, whereas the second one (which I think is Guy) doesn't even tho it's a more sorted bike. Maybe the world has moved on in terms of alternatives.
I haven't ridden the RZ so can't comment. ST4 (as said above) suits me as it's long, pretty slack and is as much fun on lumpy stuff as it is ripping through tight singletrack. I sold my Pace 405 as I wasn't riding it because the ST4 was more fun.
I wouldn't want a five. The ST4 is a brilliant all round trail bike IMO. I don't recognise much of the stuff in the review!
I cant see there being much in it, id go for the RZ but either way you will get a smashing bit of kit.
[i]'A detuned chassis'[/i] Jesus Christ that is a desperate piece of writing.
if it's in the balance go with the better warranty
ST4 would be my choice
Specialized Camber?
The head angle is slacker than the older one (only .5 deg tho)
Is it? I can't find the old geometry online anywhere, but I'm sure I read that they kept the same 68 degree HA but upped the rear travel slightly (and redesigned it...).
The bit that got me in the review was this: [i]Twist and reduced stability from the steeper, non-tapered head tube...[/i] I'm sorry, come again? Twist from a standard 1 1/8" headtube? So basically [i]everyone[/i] with a normal width headtube is suffering from a noodley front end? Jesus, what guff!
Ive got to agree with you there Kit....
You may be right Kit. When I was discussing it with Orange they told me the major changes were HA, shock position/linkage and chainstays. I'm sure mine looks slacker with the same fork, but I could be talking bobbins!
I just re-read that review. I'm not sure I even understand it second time around...
I got a new Rize 2 carbon when they first came out after testing with C-dale in Gran Canaria. It was everything I wanted in an all mountain bike and climbed really well and inspired confidence on the downs. Over the last few year riding round Essex it has been fine but though i love the lefty I always felt that it let me down a bit on steep techy stuff in the Lakes or Wales. Last year I spent a week in the Alps riding the Pass Porte du Soliel and the back end was fine but the front end just couldn't cope at high speed decents. I have had a couple of problems with the frame, due to my burlyness but they seem to be one off's and Cannondale have always sorted me out ok, which is worth alott when spending good money on a bike. I was holding out for the new Jeckyl to launch but as I loved the Rize so much I decided to try a few changes to see how I could improve the already confidence inspiring bike. So I beefed it up a little the other week and took it for a first blast on the North Downs and the changes have created the exact bike I was looking for. Bigger brakes, Fox 150 talas and questionable wheels (they were very cheap). Now I'm off to Wales for a real shake down but my feeling is that I'm going to stick with this bike for another year or two as I really don't think I'm going to find much else better and i do get to ride a few different bikes. Go for the Dale.
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Nice pup.
He's called Ted.
My 09 16" st4 frame weighs about 6lb 12oz if that helps.
Have you tried Pauls Cycles for the rize?
nice KTM
Super-Moto?
Yeah. 990 SM, the last one available before the SMT took over.
How about looking at a Cube Sting
[url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=55722 ]Ghost AMR Lector 7700[/url]
[url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=55723 ]Ghost AMR Lector 8700[/url]
A detuned chassis' Jesus Christ that is a desperate piece of writing.
Indeed. And total bollox. In what way is the new version "detuned"? There is no evidence of this at all.
I suspect there is some politics behind this. If you look at the reviews of the older ST4, everyone was raving about what a fun capable bike it was. A few of us went out + rode them fairly hard + they broke, hence the redesign. Maybe Orange asked journo's to reign in the rhetoric a bit?
That said everything that was said in the old reviews is more true about that newer frame, as Alex said above. It isn't a super efficient XC map crosser, or ideally suited for coming down Nan Biel the wrong way, but it more than capable of hamming round trail centers, down rocky trails /steps and handling smaller jumps + drops. I've yet to ride anything, where the bike was holding me back + its faster than my Prophet was on everything I've ridden it on. More importantly it feels faster + like you've got to pay more attention + put a bit more in to really get the most out of it. (In surfing terms, more like pumping a short board, than just standing around on a longboard). The downside of this is that after 4 hours you're pretty knackered. Testing a bike like this on old school XC death march type rides is pointless, its not what its for + if you're not getting full travel out of it, you really, really aren't trying hard enough. (Sorry Chipps)
Having also ridden the RZ120 It also is a very good fun bike, back end "feels" stiffer + probably can be built up into a lighter bike + would be a better choice if you are planning more endurothon rides.
Try both, if you are anywhere near West Wales you are welcome to have a play on my ST4.
I think this highlights the fundamental problem in bike reviews. They are not based on any objective testing of measurable qualities such as stiffness or efficiency. Not saying we should go all tutonic + have reviews in the form of tables of figures, but some evidence to back up manufacturer's claims and journo's opinions would add objectivity.
Hi Alec 🙂 I was going to write something similar after reading the STW review. But you've saved me a job!
Certainly I have no trouble getting full travel from mine, and it's a huge improvement on what was a fun but flawed previous model. I've ridden it on some tameish DH trails in the FoD and my bottle went before I ran out of bike.
Having been a serial bike buyer, the ST4 is the reason I've stopped. If anything happened to it, I'd buy another in a heartbeat. I'm sure the RZ is a great bike, most bikes are nowadays. But I agree, the ST and BR review confused me. I'm not getting into "my bike is better than yours", but I'm not recognising the bike that was reviewed.
I know the original ST4 was reviewed a few years ago alongside the Meta 4, but has there been a newer review?