[Closed] Orange Four

I would.

Interesting!

Not sure I really see the point 😕

More details required.

Very interesting.. Launch date? £3700 is a fair whack for a "from" price though.

Meh.

I suppose it's like a five/bronson, four/solo. As long as it's light enough it makes sense to me

chestrockwell - Member
Not sure I really see the point

Ditto

They continually try and do shorter travel bikes but they are no lighter than the longer travel versions.So people just go I'll have the longer travel one (thereby totally missing the point) and they don't sell and get dropped fairly quickly.
See also 5010 vs Bronson etc

That ^

The whole point of a shorter travel bike is that it should be lighter.

Is it so people who had a Five donkey years ago can buy a new one as the travel has increased? 😕

One less drawer?

Is it so people who had a Five donkey years ago can buy a new one as the travel has increased?

Ooosshh! Kick me in the nuts why dontcha??

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Closer up

The weight thing is exactly why I don't get it. If I'm buying a bike with decent travel I don't worry too much about how heavy it is but if I'm going short travel then the bike's in a different category where weight is important IMO.

scotroutes - Member

The whole point of a shorter travel bike is that it should be lighter.

Weeelll not just that. Like, if you buy a short travel hard hitting bike like Transition do, it still needs big wheels, tyres etc and you still fit a Pike so the weight ends up pretty similiar to a longer travel bike. But it rides pretty differently. This is basically going to be for people who like the whole Orange deal but want a bit less bike. Same as the old Superlight/Heckler deal I suppose

I wouldn't buy one, Oranges get better the bigger they are but it's another stab at the ST4 market. Or maybe more like the Segment, which has all the same criticisms of the Five 29 but still has a place imo.

Looks RAD. I hope they've trimmed the chainstays down (compared to the Five's)

scotroutes - Member
The whole point of a shorter travel bike is that it should be lighter.

Worng

Am I missing something? How do we know it's not lighter?

Didn't Five originally refer to the weight of the frame, rather than the travel?

Am I missing something? How do we know it's not lighter?

Exactly, haters gonna hate and all that. I think it looks great.

I might get one. in a few of years when I can afford a second hand frame.

Bucko - Member

Am I missing something? How do we know it's not lighter?

It's probably not going to be much different- the folded sheet construction doesn't really lend itself to clever weight loss, the front triangle looks very similiar and the rear though shaped differently has the same job to do really... Nothing gamechanging I reckon

Well I think it looks nicer than the 5 (not overly difficult mind) and agree with Northwind, it's not just the weight, but the way it rides.

Interesting! I can definitely see a place for one of these in the fleet if it comes in at the right wheight. I liked the look of the SC bantam, but it was just as heavy as the heckler!

I wonder if the weight will be a usp, as Orange don't usually like to talk about such things....

[quote=roverpig ]Didn't Five originally refer to the weight of the frame, rather than the travel?

Five tons?

[img] [/img]

The weight of a bike shouldn't correlate with the amount of travel it has but with its ability to survive impacts, both potentially disastrous single hits or less massive hits causing fatigue failure. Assuming the suspension is similarly designed, the less travel the bike has, the greater the loads on it, so any reduction in fork/shock weight will be cancelled out by extra metal in the frame. There's also the matter of fork A-C length and leverage on the head tube so longer forks need more reinforcement around there. Shorter travel bikes are usually lighter because they're built less strong.

This Orange looks fun!

roverpig - Member
Didn't Five originally refer to the weight of the frame, rather than the travel?

It was the "sub-5" at first as it apparently weighed less than 5lbs for the frame and had 5" of travel (iirc). Not sure what components they took off when weighing it mind you!

Didn't Five originally refer to the weight of the frame, rather than the travel?

Think so, in the Sub 5 and Sub 3 days.

As for the weight thing, I'm sure it will be lighter but I doubt it'll be light enough, as others have said. Why get one over a 5 unless it's significantly lighter? Time will tell though.

Shorter travel bikes ride different, they're more efficient to pump, more efficient to pedal if designed with similar anti-squat and more snappy but harsher in their responses. It's not necessarily about the weight.

I noticed the current Five has now returned to 140mm as the default fork travel, so this is only 10mm less up front and 20mm less at the back. I wonder how the Four's geometry compares?

The whole point of a shorter travel bike is that it should be lighter.

Glad nobody told Kona this before they made the Process 111.

I hate orange as much as the next man, but I'd be interested in having a razz on one of those! Weight isn't important on shorter travel bikes these days, it's how they feel. My foxy weighs 28lbs and is a beast on technical terrain, yet take it down something less technical or tighter and it suddenly feels a bit cumbersome and it feels like I'm lugging round a 160mm fork and bottomless feeling back end for little reason. There's more shorter travel bikes with aggressive geometry showing up, T-130, Scout, 5010 to name but a few. Sure they might not be lighter than a longer travel bike these days, but in certain instances they can make more sense.

If it had the angles of an Alpine and 29 wheels it might be interesting

Surely being light isn't the point?

To praphrase, "it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog". Taking a 4" travel bike down the same trails at the same speed as a 5" travel bike is going to put more stress if anything on it, so it needs to be just as strong.

The point of shorter travel is that it rides a little differently, doesn't wolow about as much, pedals better, pumps better, etc.

Prefer the look of the five, not keen on that chainstay. Looks better than an Alpine still though mind.

If it had the angles of an Alpine and 29 wheels it might be interesting

Heard chat about "new bikes" from Orange, perhaps an updated Segment is also in the pipeline.

New Segment
http://factoryjackson.com/2016/02/01/the-bike-place-show-2016-hot-stuff/

chakaping - Heard chat about "new bikes" from Orange, perhaps an updated Segment is also in the pipeline.

Might I suggest they:
take 1.5 inch off the seat tube
take 2.5 off the head angle
add 15mm to the rear travel
add 20mm to the front travel

If they keep the rest the same and I'd be interested when I win the lottery.

Edit:
So they've just added simple buzz word features. Disappointing but not surprising

I'll reserve judgement 'til I see the geometry chart, but it does sound more like you're after a new Five29 !

chakaping - I'll reserve judgement 'til I see the geometry chart, but it does sound more like you're after a new Five29 !

Or I could buy 2 x Starling frames

I dare you.

Does he do 29ers though?

chakaping - I dare you.

Does he do 29ers though?

If I could afford I would. I've thought of asking him if he'll do me one but as much as I'd like a new bike, I'm not sure the cost to benefit ratio is currently in my favour.

I quite liked the idea of this..until I saw the Boost hub spacing rendering my new wheels out of date already.

Orange have put a weight on it they say 27.5lbs and shorter chainstays with 184mm shock.

Short travel is not just about saving weight. 🙄

Ok,I know it's much more about me than the bike.

But the Segment. A 29er, boost, that also takes plus size tyres on 650b. Sorry, 27.5".

Can't keep up with it all anymore.

Like I said, it's just me I'm sure.

The whole point of a shorter travel bike is that it should be lighter.

WAT? not really. Still needs a shock, bearings, and a frame. The shock stroke is reduced, thats about it. Shorter travel bikes TEND to be lighter, but only cause they are built lighter as they tend to be XC whippet bikes, not Huck-to-flat ers.

Its the same reason you dont get 8" trail bikes, and 12" bikes never really took off. Technological advancement and the current position of bikes means we are past more-is-better. There is an optimum for a job.

a 4"travel alpine would make a wicked little bruiser for clattering down UK DH tracks (but probably not winning), Jumping, and general trail riding without wanting to be wallowing around on a 160mm chassis, but still being able to give it a battering.
I VERY much doubt it is any lighter, just more "pert" to ride.

Also, FWIW 127mm is 5". Equally, my Five29 has 140mm rear travel. I Think they've got a bit confused over at Orange over which end of the ruler to hold, but the concept of a short travel bruiser is a solid one.

To all those saying that a shorter travel bike shouldn't be lighter....

Would you expect a 110/20mm bike to weigh the same or more as a 140/50mm bike and would you buy one? Examples please.

The new Segment sort of holds my interest but I'll need the details. If it's 1x only I'll need another bike so that could either throw a spanner or be a good thing! The 4? Nah, it'd be a 5 or 29er.

Would you expect a 110/20mm bike to weigh the same or more as a 140/50mm bike and would you buy one? Examples please.

They may not, but they wont buy one unless it is. Every smaller brand that has tried this category has pretty much failed. Its only the big brands that seem able to maintain the mid travel market.

Not %100 on the Four, I don't see any real point to it ,when the Segment is already there or there abouts , Would still try one but then again its not a Five

[quote=STATO ]

Would you expect a 110/20mm bike to weigh the same or more as a 140/50mm bike and would you buy one? Examples please.

Like the Four, a lot.

If there's no significant weight difference or cost difference then your average buyer is always going to go for the longer travel bike.

Would you expect a 110/20mm bike to weigh the same or more as a 140/50mm bike and would you buy one? Examples please.

I'm on a Kona Process 111 at the moment. It weighs more than my 160mm 650b enduro weapon. It's much more responsive though.

I accept this is the exception rather than the rule. And I'm not really sure what we're debating. I just thought I'd chip in.

Not %100 on the Four, I don't see any real point to it ,when the Segment is already there or there abouts

It doesn't make a lot of practical sense for those who've tried short-travel nu-skool 29ers, but it probably makes more commercial sense for the unenlightened masses.

😉

Details now on the main page.

It’s as you’d expect, a 4 inch 120mm travel bike (with a 130mm fork) designed as a shorter travel hoon machine rather than anything*shudder* XC. There’s been a lot of thought put into the design, and there are more than a few very nice touches.

The swingarm is composed of a ridiculous number of carefully bent aluminium sheets (there is’n’t a tube on the whole bike apart from the seat tube) all layered yp generate maximum strength and stiffness. The frame is 1lb lighter than the Orange Five, with a substantial saving on the swingarm, which resembles (in looks at least) the one on the Orange Alpine.

Tidy dropouts resemble the ones on the Segment, and the whole thing is boosted for stiffness, which is comparable to the stiffness of the Five.

You want numbers? Okay, here are numbers. 67 degree head angle, 74 degree effective seat angle, 424mm chainstays, and the large has a 458mm reach. Not bad.

When I had my five I just wanted it to have 160m up front (65.5degree) and 150 out back with slightly lighter weight. Basically an alpine on a major diet. Everyone has their preferences though, can't please everyone

I imagine it'll be similar to the Alpine 5 where people are interested, demo one and are really impressed, then buy a 5.

@chakaping

The whole 130mm up front makes me think its designed purely for the trail riders, very much like Whytes T130,

Id like to know where the F@ck is the Orange fattie...pretty much a crush with mahosive tyres!

Four is on their [url= https://www.orangebikes.co.uk/bikes/four-rs ]website[/url] now

Hoon machine with a 67 head angle!

No thanks

There’s been a lot of thought put into the design

I'm struggling to see where lol

would rather have a transition scout

[img] [/img]

What happened to the Orange 3?

I think I get the Four. Having switched from a Five (which is too much bike for my mincing) to a Smuggler I'm sold on the advantages of shorter travel. More responsive, more efficient and more fun on the sort of trails I ride, but still with enough travel to cope with any drop that I'd ever have the nerve to ride. Marrying that with bigger wheels makes a lot of sense for more open and rougher trails, but a smaller wheeled version should turn quicker and that would be fun too.

I'm less convinced by the boost Segment. The BB on the current model is 330mm and it feels great. Put B+ wheels in though and it will drop to something like 323mm, which is just too low. Unless they've raised the BB on the new model, in which case they've compromised a great feeling bike just to make it compatible with some new trend 🙁

I just had a play with the options on a 4 pro, added a reverb and a few wee things, comes out about £3100. Will it be 50% more fun than my 2015 Anthem SX which was a good bit under £2000 ?

I had an 08 5 and loved it, but was waay too much bike for me

The BB on the current model is 330mm and it feels great. Put B+ wheels in though and it will drop to something like 323mm, which is just too low.

I'm not arguing because it's totally down to personal preference, but I'd prefer the 323mm-high BB myself.

🙂

I fancy a 27.5+ segment...

Bring back the Orange Blood, but make sure it's still ahead of its game this time round

Or the ST4

Genuinely great to see Orange innovating.

That [i]was[/i] ironic, yeah?

Surely this is the new ST4?

Hmm, the more I look the more I want!
Short travel - yep, don't mind a bit less travel for a bit more 'pop' besides, I remember when 120mm was long travel! 🙄
Lighter - demoed a five last month and it was a lump! Loved the way it rode, confident in the corners and ripping downhill but took some motivating up the climbs.
'New' geo - my current fs feels a bit dated, steep and sketchy both up and down in comparison to newer bikes I've tried.

I think I get it but, as already stated, I suspect it will not appeal to a wider audience. 5010/Bronson, Remedy/Fuel ex, even Heckler/Bantam.
I thought the Bantam would have been the ideal uk trial bike, but it didn't last.

I built a 5 up to be 27lbs, ok so it was in 2007 and had the lighter wheel standard, but most were 30lbs then.

Their website sells it very well, I hope it proves popular! Personally I'd want a slacker head angle but that's easily sorted with a Works headset (they have -1, -1.5 and -2 that'll fit). Chainstays are 6mm shorter and BB 13mm lower than the Five so it should be a lot of fun on bermy jumpy trails.

Er Whyte T130 rs anyone.... better spec less money and not read a bad review yet.

Don't underestimate the benefits of less travel and steeper angles. Quicker steering, might help with those big fangled wheels.

Er, yes...

Unless you want single pivot/different spec/filing cabinet/frame only in which case the t130 rs is no good.

Looks like short travel bikes might be this year's must have,there seems to be more made of the spesh camber than the stumpy now. Maybe my ,once trail bike of the year, anthem x29 will be back in fashion.

New four looks good,pricey,but good.

shorter travel trail bike

http://www.bansheebikes.com/bikes/spitfire/

sorted and cheaper

To me this is probably the bike I should have bought over the 5..
I bought the 5 as my anthem wasn't up to the abuse id give it on local trails..or doing stupid jumps..I'd often check the frame for cracks after some jumps.

The 5 is more than enough bike for my local trails and doesn't get ridden to its limits..

I reckon the 4 with 130 mm on the front would be spot on...

After reading some earlier comments re 330mm v 323mm bb height..surely 7mm can't be noticed in the handling? Also why all the hate for Orange? Never owned one but always thought the simplicity really makes sense for uk conditions.