[Closed] Orange Five - WTF makes it so special?

Jeffus, everyone else will tell you, attention to detail saves weight.

KSi900 seatpost weighs well over half a pound more than a fixed post for a start.

Hope tech 4 brakes aren't that light, Sunline V1 bar won't be that light compared to carbon. V12 pedals even with ti axles not light compared to most spds? Do you have lockon grips? If so they'll weight more. Etc etc.

Oh, and most peoples "calibrated" bathroom scales magically read "27lbs" 😉

[b]I reckon its the advertising budget spent in UK mags that makes the orange 5 'so special'. I hear its not rated highly outside the UK mags. Its an old design now and seems over priced to me.[/b]

this ^^

MBR magazine test staff were all given a free Orange 5 for the year- make your own conclusions...

personally? never ridden one off-road, ridden plenty in the car park outside our shop after customers had them through our workshops with ongoing rear brake / hub / shock DU issues

feels kinda wobbly in the back end (hence the problems my customers had..) and the brake stiffening is very noticeable if you have spent time on quality FSR / VPP bikes

Perhaps you have just failed to fix them all 😉

wobbly in the back 😀

agree on the DU issues though, go through a set every 6mnths on average 😕

Changed my DU bush the other day along with the swing arm bearings, 18 months riding. 3-4 rides a week all weathers, 😀

mtmtomo I will check out my build thought it was ok but the scales don't lie 😀

+1 molgrips - I prefer to get feedback through the bike.

He's not talking about the same kind of feedback that you are. Molgrips is talking about the effect of the chain tugging at your feet/pedals as length of the chain grows and shrinks as the suspension compresses and rebounds.

The kind of feedback you're referencing here is about information coming up through the wheels and into your contact points and the design of a suspension system doesn't really change that, although it will to some degree.

Wow, plenty of opinion to digest there! All conflicting too. 🙂 When I initially posted I was thinking that I had missed something and that the 5 was the Evil Sov. or Cove Stiffee of FS bikes(i.e on paper pretty ordinary, but is somehow more than the sum of its parts). More I read less convinced I am. The whole simplicity thing? Does it matter how many pivots a bike has if its well designed and quality bearings or bushes used? Prob not.

My current fs has done 3000 miles in 12 mths and still as tight as day 1. Would be disappointed with anything that did not give me at least this level of reliability. Am I unwittingly spoiled with what I have?

Was also looking at a new Mountain Cycle Zen II and could not get over the negative response here and on other forums to the fugly looks as imo had a similar appearance and design philosophy to the five (if not superior).

A good long spin on the bike tomorrow should help me decide. 🙂

Keep the opinions coming, some good reading here!

What makes the Five so special is the fact that it simply does [i]exactly[/i] what you ask of it. Nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't try to do anything for you or compensate for the terrain below you. You make inputs and it responds immediately and predictably.

The rest is up to you! It's why people like Rowan Sorrell are so devastatingly quick on them!

And you can spin it's weak points however you want.

You can argue the chain growth on a Five is like "Brain" technology, only smarter - it literally only firms the shock up when you're pedalling - firm under power, open and active when you're freewheeling.

Inactive under braking - true, true, but it does squat which means BB gets lower, angles slacker and it actually sets you up for the corner better. Also, Steve Peat seemed ot get round it by just staying off the brakes.

Poor square edge hit performance - hitting a square edge is still slow even if the bike deals with it well.

But for some balance...

It used to be bench-mark stiff but the swingarm is feeling a little flexy these days.

I also agree that the 07/08 geo was the sweet spot - the newer slacker ones are loosing their versatility IMO. What's made the Five so great in the past is the fact that it was as an effective long travel xc bike (Paul Murrin even won Mountain Mayhem on a Five I believe) as it was a gravity sledge. I feel the latest ones have gone too far to the gravity end.

I love my 2010 Five. It's completely dependable and far more capable than I am, up and downhill. The perfect "one bike to do it all". And I think it looks great!
Admittedly, it's the first FS I've owned, but I test rode equivalent Trek, Speccy etc and they felt a bit more clinical, with less of a hooligan streak.
As others have said, test ride it against some others and if you like it, buy it!

The weight is an issue. No one will convince me that a heavier bike is better for the trails. The new bench mark is 25lbs. Way ahead is carbon. Orange needs to move forward or it will die like so many British firms.

I test rode a O5 and a heckler back to back, to me the orange felt numb.

Orange needs to move forward or it will die like so many British firms.

Does it matter how many pivots a bike has if its well designed and quality bearings or bushes used? Prob not

Does it matter how many pivots a bike has if its well designed and quality bearings or bushes used?

Well if you have to replace 14 bearings it a) takes ages and b) costs £80 quid or something. Plus if a bike has that many bearings they are often (but not always) small which means that they don't last as long anyway.

Bearings on a 5 are chunky, and also bolted in rather than pressed, which makes it a doddle to change.

I bought a brand new Orange 5 SE in cosmic super turf, with further upgrades back in 2009, coming in at 27lb. I live near Halifax and therefore the main reason for the purchase was simply that!.
I pxd a Stumpjumber at LL in Bury, and back in 2009 there were discounts / deals galore due to the recession and bikes were reasonably priced. I paid £2650.00 which included further upgrades.

I have been riding bikes for 25+ years and in fairness this "did a job", great spec, good weight, geometry....but something was missing and it did not stack up with all the hype of the 5s at the time (consider I purchased this also on the back of the first 10/10 MBR review). I have rode several bikes since I got rid, namely Cube Fritz and Stereos, meta 5.5, scott genius 20 and recently my 09 epithany, some were better, but none less as good as the 5. Consider none of these bikes also cost more than a 5, other than the epithany.

Respectfully average Joes (which is the bracket I fall into) will not know the difference between a 5 or any many other cheaper premium FSers.

The concern to me is that I would now need to shell out £4.4k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, yes 4.4k !!!!! for an 2011 SE. This therefore would not even make it into my top 20 shortlist when I look to purchase again next year. Would I consider one of these new Canyons....., top reviews, better looking, far better specd, half the price...who wouldnt ?.

So after 3 pages of posting, nothing has confirmed to me what makes it special ?, jesus 90% of bikes have similar geometry to the 5, I cant believe this has been offered for many of the main reasons why people overpay for this bike now, the reasons offered are also relevent to many over premium grade bikes.

What makes this special is perhaps 3No. MBR 10/10s, and the fact that 85% of 5 riders refuse to say otherwise ?.

GREAT BIKE, NOT SPECIAL.

'bout time for a Carbon 5 IMO 😀

Simple design will be easy and cheap to make in carbon. Put a little bit thought into some of the finer points of carbon design and you would get a very light and robust bike that needn't cost that much over the alloy one, maybe the same tbh but you would probably have to ship out the build to Taiwan for cost and affordable quality control. But you could get them made in the UK if you could get some funding to help set it up.

To be honest, I thought the Patriot was a more significant bike...

It's why people like Rowan Sorrell are so devastatingly quick on them!

Rowan Sorrell would be quicker than nearly all of us on a shopping trolley.

I've demo'd it twice and been underwhelmed on both occasions. Was merely 'okay' - there are clearly better designs out there IMO.

Elle n'est rien qu'une velo

Maybe it's because it's a genuinely good do-most-things-well bike?

Just saying, like.

yep them Canyon's are damn good for the money.

I think like the stumpy the O5 needs to evolve using the new materials. It was saved from the dustbin of history by the revolution in shock technology.

I didn't think the 5 was that spectacular when I rode one, the Zesty I rode straight after climbed better and descended pretty much exactly as well. But, where the 5 shone was that neutrality/approachability, most bikes take a little time to gel with but I really felt like I could dick around on the 5 almost immediately. The same's been true of the R8 and the 224 (and my Cotics, and some others), they just feel immediately right. And that's probably a big advantage when it comes to test rides, if you've got an hour to test a bike and you spend the first 40 minutes just figuring out how to make it go round a corner it's not going to make as good an impression overall.

I like 5s... Don't think they're anything amazing but I wouldn't mind one.

I like Mbr's trail bike of the year review - crap rims, under powered brakes 10/10 go figure! Not a five hater, have owned one and liked it but i've stopped using mbr magazine reviews as a source of reference for anything other than component specs.

Sorted geometry and simplicity make it a great bike. I ride nothing but 29er myself but if I was forced to buy a tiddly wheeled bike the 5 is the best of all the ones I've tried at demo days. Took an AM build one round the black at Laggan last time and it was a hoot, nowhere near as good as a decent 29er but fun all the same.

Some other fancier/expensiver bikes which seem great on paper turn out just not as nice to ride despite all their pivots and gubbins which make their suspension supposedly perfect. 5 Spot was the only other one I've tried which came close to the 5.

I test rode one at Glentress a few weeks ago. For me what made it special is the fact I felt at home on it straight away, it took no getting used to whatsoever. I hammered it around for 7 hours like I had owned it for years with a huge grin on my face because it was fun.

Surely any bike that is fun (for me) to ride is special, whether its a £500 hard tail, or a 3k full sus?

My brother also hired one and wasn't as impressed. Whats good for one, isn't necessarily good for another.

Is your brother American?

I went from an 04 Enduro to an 08 '5'. For me it is more fun, better to ride, more robust, simple. It's still on it's original bearings, whereas the Enduro needed new ones (about 8 of them) every 6 months.

I am wondering about getting the pivot bearing changed anyway now though, seeing as it is almost 3 yrs old !

Initially I hated the design of single pivot Oranges.

Then I had a ride on a 222.... and was instantly converted.

One year later, and I pick up an older Patriot (yr 2000) frame - which rides superbly too.

If I was to purchase a new bike/frame... it would be a Five no doubt.

The Orange 5 has become a bit like Marin full sussers did a few years ago, only with a less "beardy" image, and a higher pricetag.

Now we all know that it's obviously not a bad bike. If it was rubbish, it wouldn't sell no matter what! It does rely on it's track record though a bit too heavily. You're only as good as your last performance etc. and on that basis the 5 has slipped somewhat. Still the apple of average joe's eye, but definitely been left behind by other bikes in the performance/weight/cost stakes. The RRP of a 5 has been a long standing joke quite frankly, when you consider that the likes of Specialized, Trek and even Cannondale (whilst they still sold the Prophet) can match or better the performance for a whole heap less cash. But its worse than ever now for the 5 as it's prices have soared!

I'm absolutely sure if I was given a 5 I'd have a good time on it, geometry looks reasonably well sorted, and just like a Porsche 911 it's had plenty enough time for most of it's inherent foibles to be ironed out as best as possible. But there are newer, cheaper, lighter, better performing bikes out there, which if I was looking for a new bike (I'm not) would get my cash over the 5 time and time again...

jesus 90% of bikes have similar geometry to the 5, I cant believe this has been offered for many of the main reasons why people overpay for this bike

this will be the hype bit old boy.

I hammered it around for 7 hours like I had owned it for years with a huge grin on my face because it was fun.

That's why I own a Five. 🙂

It's peculiar how something as conventional as a Five has such a polarising effect on opinion. Some folks sneer and others will consider nothing else.

It seems form all the chaff above that the big problem the Five has is that it is popular. If it was more niche it would be accepted by more.

I don't see what is wrong with a British made bike being well regarded. If you don't like them, there are alternatives. Where is the harm?

I still think most of you don't know what brake jack is. It's NOT the feeling of the rear wheel smacking into things as you brake.

If this isn't a symptom of brake jack then can you perhaps explain what it is then? Or what brake jack feels like? Because I do know what it is, and your description of it's symptoms is pretty accurate succinct.

BTW I'm not knocking the 5, never had one, but I've had two SC Bullits and never had a problem with brake jack, although I could make them do it if I wanted to, but it is an easy thing to avoid and makes you a better rider by picking your brake spot more carefully and refusing to brake on the ruff stuff. Love a single pivot me, so I can only imagine the 5 must be OK > Great.

It seems form all the chaff above that the big problem the Five has is that it is popular. If it was more niche it would be accepted by more.

This is a laughable contradiction/misstatement, did you do it on purpose?

[i]I'm absolutely sure if I was given a 5 I'd have a good time on it[/i]

Seriously...its a bike. How bad is it going to be? Bikes are fun.

Edit:
[i]My bad...misread.[/i]

I prefer my five inch travel bikes to be sub-25lbs

It's a good job it's nearer 6" then (and compares more favourably against 140-150mm bikes) :p

FWIW I demo'd one and thought it felt like a classic car, you could throw all the upgrades you like at it but it'll still feel on edge. Where as something more 'refined' wont nececeraly be quicker but will feel more composed.

Just bought a Pitch Pro, I'd like the Orange, but I got a complete new bike for the frame only cost of the Orange.

I think people are confusing the Five per se, and the Five at it's current price.

I bought a 2nd hand 2004 full bike when it was 18 months old for £1200. At the time I think the frame on its own was about £1000 which was comparable with the competition. Now, however, I think it's coming out as relatively expensive, for a design which is older compared to the competition. And people are questioning what they're paying the premium for. I think that's a fair question tbh.

As a bike per se it's an effective design which clearly a lot of people are very happy with, maybe not as sophisticated and scientific as newer designs but clearly still a very effective, reliable and cheap-to-maintain one. I think this last point can be underestimated in its appeal and not something non-owners are as aware of.

In general, I think people who own one are judging primarily on the performance/reliability/maintenance thing. They're not worried about current price so they see all its good points when they ride it.
People who are looking around are looking at the price, the old design and thinking WTF?!

I thought that brake jack was the action of brakes making the suspension extend. In the case of the 5, the rear suspension extends because your weight is pitched forwards unweighting the rear. On a horst bike, I suspect that the action of the brakes would cause the rear to COMPRESS thereby going some way to negating the weight-forward issue and providing better tracking of the rear wheel...

Also when extended, the axle path of the rear wheel could mean that you felt the bumps more as the wheel moved foward into bumps with suspension extension.

Still, it's never even remotely approached an issue for me. Remember this is an MTB not a luxury car. Compared to a HT it's pretty plush 🙂

The design is a culmination of 10 years of evolution isn't it? Meh who cares, it's just a bike that does what a bike should do. If people can't afford it they should buy something else and quit worrying.

molgrips - Have a read ->

http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/showthread.php?35572-quot-Brake-jack-quot-an-explanation.

I struggle with long sentences properly (because I have read it before) but from the diagrams it looks like a massively longwinded explanation of what's fairly obvious to me as a physics graduate. Plus I'm not sure it's correct. He suggests that the difference in vectors between the axle and the caliper cause a turning moment about the suspension pivot, but to me it woudl suggest a turning moment about a point in between the two - resulting in a flex of the swingarm.

If you remove the shock, spin the wheel and apply the brake the swingarm moves up, but that's transfer of angular momentum which is different. And not significant because it's small compared to the other forces at work.

And even if it is right, he is demonstrating brake SQUAT in a single pivot, not brake JACK - which he acknowledges.

It is fairly easy to understand that if the brake torque/axle reaction force doesn’t exhibit a compressive or extensive force/moment on the suspension AT ALL, then under any braking the suspension will extend due to weight shifting forwards. For this reason, it may be useful to have some amount of pro-squat (tendency to compress).

This is basically what I said up there ^^^

Another important point to note is that true “neutrality” under any acceleration (positive [pedalling] or negative [braking]) is not necessarily an optimum setup – certain reaction forces under braking/pedalling can help stabilise the bike as well as offer greater comfort and traction

This is also bang on, and relevant to the bike under discussion here 🙂

The first one I had looked like two different people had welded the front triangle together (the swingarm was fine), look at it from one side and the welds were fine. Look at it from the other and it looked like who-ever had done it was on their very first day in the job. It cracked on the "bad" side where the axle for the pivot bearings passes through the down-tube. Returned and (after almost two months and alot of chasing up) was replaced under warranty. The second one cracked in the same place. The third replacement was blatently misaligned, the back wheel was about 10mm further right than the front!

My LBS got my money back and I've ridden hardtails ever since. I won't be buying another Orange. A shame because my first proper mountain bike, a 1993 clockwork LX is still going now and for many years was my only and very much loved bike.

I think they had a dodgy patch a while back in terms of build. A LBS I once had refused to sell them for that reason.

Mine does not seem to have those issues.

To be fair the first two rode OK before they broke and there are many, many satisfied customers out there so maybe I just had bad luck.

Three times.

With the warranty dept., the QC dept., the framebuilding dept.........

The RRP of a 5 has been a long standing joke quite frankly, when you consider that the likes of Specialized, Trek and even Cannondale (whilst they still sold the Prophet) can match or better the performance for a whole heap less cash.

So having never ridden one you have come to the conclusion that they are not worth the money, but a mass produced bike made in Taiwan by a robot is?

To me people on here fall in three categories

1) People who can't afford one so they talk them down to make themselves feel like they have bought the right bike because it was cheaper, better spec'ed, has more pivots blah blah blah

2) People who have tried them and genuinely didn't get on with them for what ever reason, geometry, size etc. Usually these people still say they are a good bike and worth the money.

3) People who don't have a clue what they are talking about, their mates brothers girlfriends dad had a go on one and said it was crap.

What people seem to forget is weight and spec are fine, but bikes are made to be ridden. Being light and well spec'ed doesn't make a bike fun, and thats the reason you ride isn't it, to have FUN!? Which is what the Five is.

What's an Orange Five?

So having never ridden one you have come to the conclusion that they are not worth the money, but a mass produced bike made in Taiwan by a robot is?

Correct!

And the problem with that is what exactly?

Its almost irrelevant how it performs if it is so expensive as to exclude it from many a new bike shopping list. The old assertion that "handmade in England = Better" is total crap too. In fact, I'd argue otherwise knowing what the quality of mass produced frames by the likes of Giant, Specialized and Trek are like.

The Orange 5 is a good bike, no doubt, but it's overpriced, over hyped and heavy compared to most rivals. I also know probably as many people who love theirs, feel the same way about a 5 they used to own, but were underwhelmed by.

I reckon this thread probably goes someway to promoting the Five - could you see a similar thread about a Trance getting to 4 pages long!?

I've just got my first five - think it's ace fun - much more so than a heckler I've owned (angles) - less faff than the Blur 4X I had (bearings) - less quick down than the Nomad or Last Herb AM I had obviously - very lively in comparison, I can't just plough through a rock garden any more, but that's OK - skipping about is just as fun - it's all about riding a bike after all - if it takes longer, then to my mind that's a good thing - more time having fun on a bike! And it gets up the hills better than any of my previous bikes (probably a lot to do with weight being the correct side of 30lbs)

Probably too much bike for most of the UK, but out here in the Alps it's great - we'll see how I feel once I stop climbing for my downs and the lifts open. But then I may just get a cane creek shock and fit my Lyrics on the front.

Versatile? Yep. But then you could say that about a lot of bikes around the 140mm mark.

For me the simplicity is great. So there's a bit of brake jack or whatever XYZ path square edge blah blah. But I can't see this bike being out of action for any length of time because of bearing issues. The 4X was a pain in the arse - the Nomad was much improved in that department.

Ultimately it's a free country. Buy one if you like it, don't if you don't.

Anyhow - there's my two penneth.

The current Orange 5, is worth its 2009 price. Subsequant inferior specification, coupled with a 40% + price hike, I feel, is a complete joke.

As my comments above, I ran a blinged to the max 09 SE version for 2 years and it was a great bike. If I had spent £4.4k on it, I would have been a disapointed.

In summary, and digesting 3 pages of comments, the Orange 5 is simply a good bike.

Hmm.. anyone wanna buy a 2007 5 frame? 🙂

I don't know why folks foam at the mouth at the Five SE price tag. £4400 is £3000 more than the frame price.

Take a look at the Scott Scale. The Premium is £5000, £3600 more than the frame alone price. Then move along to the 899, which is £8000; for the same frame but a different build kit!

I await the threads that will rant about value for that brand.

Its almost irrelevant how it performs if it is so expensive as to exclude it from many a new bike shopping list. The old assertion that "handmade in England = Better" is total crap too. In fact, I'd argue otherwise knowing what the quality of mass produced frames by the likes of Giant, Specialized and Trek are like

You obviously fall into category one.

Deciding a bike isn't worth the money without riding one is a bit strange.

You are always going to pay a premium for anything handmade because whether you like it or not, you are paying for someones skills and time.

If you can't afford it, it doesn't make it not worth the money, it just means you need a better job, or to buy a cheaper bike.

I can't afford an Aston Martin, it doesn't mean they're not worth the money.

You make absolutely no sense

What bit didn't you understand?

I don't really get the OTT price thing. I got my 08 Five Pro new in spring 08 for about £2600, which was ok. The drivetrain wore out and got upgraded to XT, the Mono Mini's are still good, as are the Pro 2 Hubs and wtb speed-disc wheels. The bars and stem and post got changed to Easton after a yr - most of the changes I made are normal kind of stuff to do to any bike over a bit of time riding it. Fork and shock work fine and are still 'current', if not bolt though

Current 5 Pro is £2850 with comparable spec to what came with my 08 one (although now xt rather than slx, which some would argue is as good) and costs 10% more than 3 yrs ago - sounds ok to me

I can't afford an Aston Martin, it doesn't mean they're not worth the money

They are many other reasons why they might not be worth the money though.

flow you missed the cat that i fall into.
i dont want one. it might be an awesome bike but i will never know because i just dont want one.

If you can't afford it, it doesn't make it not worth the money, it just means you need a better job, or to buy a cheaper bike.
I can't afford an Aston Martin, it doesn't mean they're not worth the money.

Heard of the words "want", "need" and "justify"?

I've not ridden a 5 but I know it's not worth twice as much as a Giant, Trek or Specialized. So because of this very point, it ceases to be about need or justification, and it becomes all about want.

I want an Aston Martin too. Is a DBS "worth" £180k? Is it 10 times better than the average family hatchback? Of course it's not, but if you've got the cash and you want it, you'll buy it. And thats fair enough. I can at least see where some of the extra money is going (if not all of it) with an Aston Martin though. With an Orange, I can't. The only reason I can see that they are more expensive than the competition is their handbuilt in small volumes nature. Which would be fine if that meant it was a better quality product because of it, even if only marginally so. As it is, even all the mags have started erring towards newer (cheaper) designs and the once great 5 has fallen by the wayside a little.

It's obviously a good bike, but then there are lots of other good bikes out there too, some great even. And most cost less than a 5...

The point about getting a better job... Totally wasted. I have the bikes I want, I dont lust over a 5 at all. In fact, there ate quite frankly many many bikes I'd buy before a 5 given a lottery win etc.

So do I still fit in your category number 1, given that I neither want, nor care for the 5, and I could have bought one at any stage if I had wanted to do so? 😉

Methinks someone has bought into the hype!

I tested and bought a second hand orange 5 really enjoy riding it but if I had to buy again I think I would look else where because of the price.

Also every bikes not perfect so its just what you like when you try it

If the discussion is about suspension design, then the single pivot has the advantages discussed, and also the downsides. An amazing mind blowing improvement can be made by using cane creek DB, at which point it will match the best (certainly if the physics add up as it seems to) suspension system currently available the DW link.
I have a dw Turner Five spot and a Five, and only when the Spot went to the 2011 angles could it match the Five despite its wonderous suspension.

I've just had a look on the Orange Web Site and they may ride well, but every bike they make is truly hideous.

For that reason I'm out.

Me thinks someone has bought into the hype!

Ahh thats where you're wrong. I bought into the hype of the Trek EX. Full Floater, ABP, Evo link, DRCV shock and was quite happy with it, then I demoed a Five and made it look crap, so much so I bought one. I hadn't really even read anything about the Five before I demoed it either, so marketing etc didn't even come into it. I wan't even looking to buy a new bike, I just went to Scotland to stay with relatives!

BTW Trek and Specialized are made by Giant 🙄

Easy one buy a Heckler lol, made by Giant too BTW

catvet, you're 5 is as good as your DW 5 spot with a CCDB?
That is interesting. How does that badboy climb?
The 5 is very nearly perfect for me, the suspension has put me off (I have tried one and it felt like it had half the travel of some 140 bikes I've been on) but if the CCDB makes that much of a difference I'd be interested.

backander
I borrowed a CCDB off Orange, tuned it to what i felt was correct with a little help from Steve Jones at Dirt mag, and it was staggering compared with the RP23. adds some weight, but with a titanium spring would be tolerable. Without the help I suspect it would have taken me ages to set it up correctly.
My feelings are there are 2 basic alternatives to rear suspension, the olds' cool SP with a good shock versus a DW link suspension (IMHO the best). Majority of the others are actuated SPs or DW/Vpp lookalikes, so if multilink is your bag then go for the best ie DW, if not a basic solid SP with a good shock.
dont expect that helps too much!

Thanks catvet. I'm still stumped!
I simply cannot find what I want!

I think we have almost found the answer to the world's problems in this thread.

Ahh thats where you're wrong. I bought into the hype of the Trek EX. Full Floater, ABP, Evo link, DRCV shock and was quite happy with it, then I demoed a Five and made it look crap, so much so I bought one.

This highlights more than anything the subjective view of bike ownership/testing... You obviously get on better with your 5 for whatever reason than you did the Trek. As I'm sure would many others. But then again, many people would find 140mm too much travel, and 120mm a sweet spot, and the Trek EX is known to be one of the best out there, so much so it won What MTB bike of the year award last time round. The Orange was several places from the top it should be noted. Bikes are a very subjective ownership prospect!

For instance, my own full sus bike I personally rate as the best there is, and know a handful of people on this forum would agree with me. Doesn't mean that it is the best though, just my subjective view... Besides, most people would say it's even uglier (and more expensive) than a 5, which it's not, so would dismiss it instantly...

£3,000 for the Pro and it has SLX crank and weighs a complete tonne, they have to be prehaps the worst spec bike 3K can buy, and who in gods name would pay 4.5K for a single pivot pile of shite ugly looking Orange!!!! Not me thats for sure. Yeh it may have XTR but alot of 3.5K nicer looking bikes have XTR. Im not suprised they dont sell many bikes, they will definatly never ever get my money. If i was going to sling 4.5K at a bike id get something that looked the dogs bollox like the Ibis Mojo SL WTF, or for around 3K build a SLX kitted Ibis Mojo.

Who would have thought that the humble Five would induce such vitriol?
Just to get this out the way - [i]yes, I own an Orange Five[/i]
But before I did; me and my mate took my boutique-y Nicolai Helius and a bog standard demo Orange Five out to test them on the same local trail sections, back to back (used the wall descent and all the sections on whites at Afan, plus stuff in the FoD if your interested).
Whilst I liked my Nicolai - the numbers said that Five was by far the quicker bike, up, along or downhill.
Just cause brand a, b or c has 4 bar or VPP doesn't make them quick.

[i]"some bikes have great suspension but pathetic angles"[/i] to not quote MBR.

I'm not saying the Five is [i]the[/i] bike, its just a simple, reliable and most of all a quick bike.
Would have to agree with earlier comment, stock RP23 isn't great - PUSH upgrade improves things significantly.
Just my tuppence worth.

Been wondering about a STOY for the Five - just wondering on %age of folks who run coil shocks on their Five?

Backhander
I would try a DW Spot, the 2011 version has the same HA, same seat angle and toptube (that is large Spot and 18" Five) so you can really make a direct comparison of the suspension systems, not the geometry.
If you want then to go carbon super light the ibis SLR or if you want even more adjustability the Ibis HD 160/140. my LBS has just sold 5 of the latter totally blinged up at around 5k, look amazing. very tempted by the SLR

Having ridden / owned several verions of the 5 and also other well known full sus bikes (Specialized Enduro, SC Blur 4X, Marin, etc), I agree that the 5 is not the "Best" suspension platform out there, or the best performing bike in some situations.

However, I keep returning to it and the only reason I can give is they are simply the most all round fun bike to ride, in all sorts of conditions and situations. They are a brilliant bit of simple design that works. I would buy another like a shot if I didn't have a Patriot 66 instead. Maybe I will anyway... 🙂

I still like my Sub5 even running 40mm too much travel up front it's a great bike considering it's 8 years old or more, I replaced the bearings the other day, they'd been creaky for about 6 months without really effecting the suspension performance. This might have been the first time they'd been done.

The Reason that the 5 will continue to be popular is that they simply refuse to go wrong, get one in the right size and the right colour and it will be there for you for as long as your dare ride an alu frame.

Other factors include a light enough weight to pedal up almost everything, enough travel to handle most situations, UK friendly mud clearance and a very generous number of bikes given to the right people.

I'll never be embarrassed to turn up on a five, I'll never have to consider if it's too wet, too dusty, to flat or too steep. It's like my hardtail only comfortable, It's like my DH bike, only it's light. If I can do it, I can do it on a 5. If I can't do it the 5 will take the crash.

It's the only bike I'd own if I was being honest, the rest of the garage is just because I signed up to a forum.

Mountainman123, what bike do you ride?

Flow have a guess...............
Mk2 Ellsworth Epiphany 150mm and a 2010 Ibis Mojo SL 120mm and a 456 Carbon 160mm 2011

Apollo? 😉

Answer above, this is a forum and people are asking for opinions and thats mine, i suppose alot of people on here will hate Ellsworth / Ibis / and the 456C, but i love em... Of course i do otherwise i wouldnt of bought them.
In the past iv owned some turd bikes too. I suppose everyone who rides a 5 will know what it feels like to own a turd bike as i did with the Marin and Ragley.

Really intelligent posts mate, don't you have school in the morning?