[Closed] Orange five vid

Is this a new five?

Yeah, there's a new five out this February.

Geometry on the new frame looks bang on, I'd be really keen on one when I make the move to 650b but they've priced themselves out of the game for me. Shame as I own and love both my five and alpine 160.

I'm just about to build up a 650b FS trail bike. Just missing a frame at the moment. The five would be the natural progression from my Crush but stacked up against the other options, they've really priced themselves out of it for me against the NP mega, Transition Scout, SC Heckler etc.

Yeah geometry looks really good and I like the new TT.

Updated 29er version next then?

AllyMcM..

£1349 SC Heckler
£1395 Transition Scout
NP Mega, well is there any point in mentioning the price, cause it drops to bugger all but the end of the season.

So £1600 for the Orange with a 5 year warranty hardly seems to have "priced themselves out", not cheap no but when they actually make them in the UK, unlike the others, which IIRC are all far-east made (no issue with that but they should be cheaper!).
If you want cheap buy the Mega, just don't expect it to hold any value when CRC drop there price at the end over every season

Chakaping, where are you seeing the new 5 geo?

I can't see that vid, it comes up private vid. Please enter your code'!

Any other links ta?

works fine for me.

It's gonna be £1700 with a custom colour. Black red or white just aren't Enduro enough surely?

Z1ppy, the Geometry is on the Orange page now...

http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/bikes/five-s

Chakaping, where are you seeing the new 5 geo?

Orange site.

So why is this geometry better than last years?
And will 2016 geometry be even better?
And so on for each year.
Why don't they give us 2020 geometry now?

Why don't they give us 2020 geometry now?

26" wheels? No way can the market handle such a jump in technology!

It's gonna be £1700 with a custom colour. Black red or white just aren't Enduro enough surely?

😀
In all seriousness, that is the most annoying thing about Orange IMO, they should be neon orange or at least mandarin Orange as std, and then you ask for a different colour! That said £100 for a different colour, which other manufacturers offer that?

Cheers, for the geo info, I wasn't sure if the one on the site was the new or old one...

Very nice, but ridiculously expensive in any colour you would actually want to buy.

Why ridiculous?
Ain much more than anyone else's boutique frame, whether you believe there boutique or not, hand made and from the UK is exclusive. No the build kits aren't great value compared to other complete bike builds, but no matter how many ppl suggest otherwise, I can't build up one of Orange's frame, using the frame only option, for much cheaper than they offer.

PS: I'm not an owner, and don't want a five..

Sorry about the video embed fail, not sure why some can't see it...how about now?

As has been mentioned the frame only is not out of the ball park of other frames. A hand built in the UK bike with a dealer network and not enough numbers to get the equipment for peanuts is always going to cost more then direct sales bikes picked out of a far east catalogue.

It's up to you if it's worth it or not.

It's definitely put me in a bit of quandary. I was pretty much set on a Transition Scout frame. I really disliked the previous Five's top tub for aesthetic reasons. I've got a '14 Crush here which only need a rear wheel ( QR vs 142x12) to swap the kit across to the new frame. Damn you Orange. Damn you. . Might have to pilfer that little extra from the wedding savings now.

Interesting that the max fork travel has dropped from 160 to 150mm - or did that happen with the change to 650b?

Right here:

[url= http://www.3peakscycles.com/p/7081/Orange-Five-RS---2015-Mk2 ]http://www.3peakscycles.com/p/7081/Orange-Five-RS---2015-Mk2[/url]

I like it nicest 5 visually for some time.

It's out of the ballpark price range with a decent shock on it which, to be fair it needs.

As a matter of interest how much was the five frame when it was originally brought out?

4k for the rs build. no thanks..

I like it. If i didn't already have a five id get frame only and build it up to my spec

So why is this geometry better than last years?

Didn't you read the answers that people took the time to compose to the thread you started the other day?

forge197 - Member
I like it nicest 5 visually for some time.

It's a single pivot frame that's hardly changed since it was launched.
It which way do you believe it to be nicer?
I read the thread but still don't get this constant tweaking of angles to make it "better".
Please can someone tell me why this is better than last years? So that an idiot (me) can understand.

The clue is in your quote

It's out of the ballpark price range with a decent shock on it which, to be fair it needs.

CTD on my 5 29 is perfectly ok.

As a matter of interest how much was the five frame when it was originally brought out?

Not sure but it was over 1k in 2006 and has been around £1500/1600 for a fair few years so hardly had a sudden jump.

It's a single pivot frame that's hardly changed since it was launched.
It which way do you believe it to be nicer?

I'm calling troll. It does look different all be it in a 5 way. For virtually all other FS there's three basic silhouettes that they all fit in to so one looks very much like another.

Iolo a troll? Never

I'm not trolling. I would like to know why this five is visually nicer than all other gives that's all. Is it the head tube, gussets, swingarm, position of the shock, colour? I'm just interested in the reasoning behind the comment.

It looks different so can be better or worse depending on your view. To suggest it has not changed since the original Sub 5 sounds like trolling.

For those interested here's the price of the 5 frame since 2009 give or take 1p. Yes, I'm at work with time on my hands.

2009- £1275.
2010- £1300.
2011- £1430.
2012- £1500.
2013- £1500.
2014- £1500.

2009- £1275.
2010- £1300.
2011- £1430.
2012- £1500.
2013- £1500.
2014- £1500.

Are these prices for the standard colour & shock?

I'm not trolling. I would like to know why this five is visually nicer than all other gives that's all. Is it the head tube, gussets, swingarm, position of the shock, colour? I'm just interested in the reasoning behind the comment

Bent top tube they used before looked wrong to me. I guess this give same stand over and looks more right.

And oranges should definitely be orange.

Just waiting on the five 29 to get the same treatment (stealth routing)

. I would like to know why this five is visually nicer than all other gives that's all. Is it the head tube, gussets, swingarm, position of the shock, colour?

It's the straight top tube and seatpost brace for me. I've always liked the Alpine 160 frame. This is very similar now.

z1ppy, not sure why you would want to build one up to their spec anyway, £2600 for skinny XM319 Mavics, Deore brakes, Revelations and no dropper?...I'm a fan of the frame but that does seem crap.

I reckon I could build one on Pikes, with XT brakes and with a 28mm wide DT Swiss wheelset for less than 3k, may still have a mixture of Deore/SLX drivetrain like their one but it would be much better.

The premium for 'hand made in Halifax' only holds water if the is frame is well finished, there is a review coming in DIRT that is less than praise worthy according to the teaser in this months issue...something about a poor fit and finish to the rear end of the frame and they had terrible shock performance, the shock issue may be subjective and one of Steve Jones many quirks but we know shock choice and tune is critical on a single pivot....however the poor finish on the frame is not subjective and is unacceptable from a firm that makes a song and dance about British workmanship and charges accordingly.

Having seen the fiasco that unfolded when Cotic tried to get a full suspension bike made in this country I'm not sure the Made in Britain thing is actually a selling point any more....anyway nice bike but about £500 over priced for the spec in my opinion.

Are these prices for the standard colour & shock?

They are for the base frame offered that year before upgrades. One year they went from QR to Maxel where as Maxel had been an option before that. That covered the price rise that year. Other years have seen the shock change for better or worse.

Deviant i don't, though other than the thin rims & a snobby attitude to deore, theirs nothing wrong with it. My point is, you go and price it 'all' up & see how much it comes to, (not using special sales offers) even your supposed £3k build.. I've tried and can't beat oranges prices by anything significant

why shouldn't you use special offers?

How much is the rs on enves then £5k ?

And I spoke to Orange just before Xmas ref a paint job on my lads Crush,& was told they're dropping mandarin in favour of the new flat orange,called 'Fizzy Orange',which is maybe whats on that Rs,issit not ?.

Second trail I think is the one beneath Guisecliffe (nr Pateley Bridge), featured in another video recently.

why shouldn't you use special offers?

.... Because they are quite often OEM or old parts so not the same spec as an off the shelf bike.

I had this arguement on here a few years back. If you're happy to use older, second hand or OEM kit you probably can build a cheaper bike but it won't be the same.

The full builds do look poor value compared to the direct sales companies or the likes of Planet X that work to a specific business model but you'll be hard pushed to build a bike with the exact same parts for less then Orange offer them at. I'll like to see proof it someone thinks it can be done.

So the difference between OEM and normal parts is no box and erm........... What else?

There's quite a lot of difference some times actually, they are not always made to the same standard as the stuff you buy in normal lbs.

Add to this the likes of Merlin selling seconds and the point remains.

Please go into more detail. I'm dying to know as I have a full bike I'm looking a building with Ultegra groupset . You're telling me OEM is not up to the job?
Is Merlin selling seconds? Does it say that anywhere?

There's quite a lot of difference some times actually, they are not always made to the same standard as the stuff you buy in normal lbs.

There's no difference other than oem is manufacturers surplus sold to bulk buyers rather than to individuals in a pretty box

I'm sure groupsets will be fine but forks, shocks etc can be a different standard.

As for Merlin selling seconds.... No, it does not tend to say that hence the reason some old Revs of mine went back twice before I then got a refund. The fact they're OEM is not always stated either.

You assume from the price that they're OEM. Everything with the same warranty , as your folks proved, so what's the problem?

The forks I got (Both pairs) had manufacturing defects that they said would not affect performance but I didn't want to take the risk and had not been made aware of before purchasing. If you're happy with that then fine but they were not the same as 'standard' forks.

Before I bought them I 'assumed' they were the same forks I could pay far more for in my lbs. They were not. I now 'assume' that's why they can sell them so cheap.

As for 'assuming' something is OEM.... I'd suggest if it turns up without the original packaging it is. Whether any of that bothers the buyer is personal.

I don't mind the Orange Five, I neither love it or hate it.

I do agree that the new model looks better though. I was never a fan of the floppy lob on style top tube, the new triangle affair does look nicer.

What was the manufacturing defect in the fork?
Were they seconds?

anyone know what the frame+shock weighs in at? Doesnt appear to be mentioned on the website.

Pricewise it seems to fit in with the competition more or less, I suppose its at the top end.

I've never ridden one , but would like to have a go at some point, will probably never get round to it.

The stantions had what looked like slash marks under the finish. The second set had the same. They accepted they were not right and refunded me. I had a look at a set my pal got from them and they were the same. Either QC at Rockshox is turd or these were bought cheap because of the defect.

Either way, for various reasons the stuff you get from x,y, or z is not necessarily the same as what you'd get from your lbs with a posh box, just as it's not necessarily the same as you'll get stock on Orange bikes.

TBH I was actually on about limited time/stock special offers so suggesting you can buy the bits cheaper due to a one off sale, is not a fair reflection on the general market prices or as a price comparison. Though the OEM point is also a fair one, I hadn't thought of.. though I'd kind of assume Orange would be using OEM kit, as an this is where it's targets at (not the general public) 😉

There's no difference other than oem is manufacturers surplus sold to bulk buyers rather than to individuals in a pretty box

I think you'll find for example that steerers/stanchions on some OEM are not the light weight option available 'main stream' models, this isn't always the case but it does happen.

I like that. Though... Am i the only person that sees a reverb with its collar barely out of the frame, and thinks something is basically wrong? Seatmasts seem to be #enduro but it's just basically a stupid way to build a frame imo, restricts seatpost choice and drop. Build it strong enough to take a longer seatpost instead.

iolo - Member

So why is this geometry better than last years?

According to MBR, every Five ever has the best geometry. And this year's Five always has the best best geometry.

It's over priced the rs should be 3k to be competitive and you can build it for 200quid more than that yourself with better wheels. I bought a frame only and the build was about 1600 so 3k total build. I'd love another but I'm not paying 4k for a five.

According to MBR, every Five ever has the best geometry. And this year's Five always has the best best geometry.

same as every Spesh or any other manufacturers bike that had a re-work, by every magazine/review.. so hardly a Orange only issue

It's over priced the rs should be 3k to be competitive

and you can build it for 200quid more than that yourself with better wheels

So you can't beat there build price?

Isnt he saying he could build it for £3200 but it cost £4k?

I dunno I thought maybe, but then re-read it as he had to spend £200 extra to get the same spec but with better wheels. Ppl keep suggesting they rubbishly price, but really no one has yet told me without using spares they already own or a one off special price that they built one to the same or better spec for less. I'd be pleased to be proven wrong & to see where this bargain supplier is.

I think you'll find for example that steerers/stanchions on some OEM are not the light weight option available 'main stream' models, this isn't always the case but it does happen.

Fair enough, I was thinking components rather than forks

People saying that what you get cheaper from CRC and the like is overstocked OEM stuff may or may not be correct (and the packaging is often the giveaway as to whether you have OEM stuff, various mags have shown that OEM stuff is sometimes lower spec than the aftermarket stuff)...there was an old model Pike that was OEM only and has very little adjustability...one of the Revelations was OEM only and couldnt be bought aftermarket either....

...but what do people think Orange kit their bikes with?...do you think they're buying full price aftermarket spec forks!?...nobody is that green surely....they bulk buy OEM stuff like everybody else...actually scratch that, maybe they do buy full price aftermarket stuff to build their bikes with as that is the only way to explain the frankly ludicrous price increases as you choose your spec on their website!

Anyway...

Orange-5 frame £1600
RS Pike £500
DT Swiss FR570 rims on DT Swiss 350 hubs £350
SLX groupset £190
XT brakes £120 (pair)
Reverb £190

Charge Spoon £20
Kore Durox bars £30
Raceface Half Nelson grips £15
Nukeproof Warhead headset £35
Spank Spoon stem £30
Hope seat clamp £15
2 x Maxxis HR-2 £60

Total £3155

That is a far better spec than the £2600 standard Orange-5, those prices are not 'one off' sale prices and if i can put together a bike like that for just over 3k i'd hope with Orange's buying power and economy of scale that they could negotiate discounts on most of those prices.

Rather than me argue the point perhaps new bike company 'Bird' illustrate the point better....look at the full-sus offerings on their site that range from £2275 - £2630 and all come with Reverbs, DT Swiss wheelsets, Pikes, Zee or XT brakes etc etc....makes the £2600 that Orange want for a full build seem slightly ludicrous.

Bird are not Specialized and dont have their buying power and yet have managed to put out a better bike than the standard Orange-5 and for less money...if they can manage it....

....Orange trade on some perceived mystique of the 'hand built in Halifax' image and people are willing to pay over the odds for it, i love the industrial look of the frame, i have owned single pivots in the past and rate them but at the moment Orange come across as a fashion brand and that does nothing for me.

For an extra £555 I'd hope it'd be a far better spec.. this isn't selling me on Orange being overpriced.
Birds prices seem very good, but they have no branding or reputation to play on (ala all the bike companies, not just orange), so need to build themselves up, selling as cheaply as possible surely is just doing this?

Even On One's Codine, seeming a good price, isn't that far off more mainstream brands

Are there any changes apart from the top tube?

Because they are quite often OEM or old parts so not the same spec as an off the shelf bike.

I thought OEM was precisely the stuff that are supposed to be bought and sold by bike manufacturers, installed on their bikes. If not, who is it intended for in the first place?

Maybe Bird are selling as cheap as possible to get traction in the market...i couldnt care less, they're great bikes at prices that should embarrass Orange.

re. branding and reputation, its a MTB, it will get trashed within a few years of decent use....mine get scratched, paint gets chipped, frames get dinged, components wear etc etc....same for the high end stuff as the bargain basement stuff...building one of these things isnt rocket science, as enthusiasts we like to talk up our bikes but the reality is they are simple objects that we've somehow become used to paying top dollar for...i like it when a company like Bird come along and buck the trend...i couldnt care less that they arent well known....its simply a bike, i'm not sure just how incompetent a company would have to be to cock it up?!

svalgis you are correct, the rows of bikes in your LBS are fitted with OEM stuff, thats the whole point of it!....some people in this thread dont understand the term, it is Original Equipment Manufacturer and OEM stuff usually differs from seemingly identical but often higher spec aftermarket stuff....there are exceptions, you'll struggle to tell an OEM groupset from an aftermarket one (if at all) but with forks and shocks there can be huge differences with the internals.

I think some parts are adapted for the OEM market, tyres are an example. The part is genuine and carries prominent branding, as that's what the buyer is looking for, but may some corners are cut in production.

Bird are not Specialized and dont have their buying power and yet have managed to put out a better bike than the standard Orange-5 and for less money...if they can manage it....

They probably can manage it, hell, the volumes they buy at, they could probably better it.

The reality is, they probably don't want to, because they don't need to.

they're great bikes at prices that should embarrass Orange.

It should embarrass all the manufacturers, but I can't see anything happening, except Bird putting up their price once they become established. If Bird made a bike I wanted (they don't) I'd consider them, the same a Canyon.. unfortunately for me, Orange are the only ppl making a solid single pivot bike (don't want no spindly SC).

Can't argue with the criticism of Orange pricing (though deals do get done I know) - it'd still be nice to see it come with a CCDB Inline as standard for the RRP they have set.

And maybe a choice of three nice colours as standard.

They might not need to do it right now, but if I was running Orange I'd be looking over my shoulder at companies like Canyon and Bird who are making bikes with similar modern geometry but at much lower prices - and I'd be thinking how to head off that competition a bit.

According to MBR, every Five ever has the best geometry. And this year's Five always has the best best geometry

They didn't like the latest alpine 160, reckoned it was old fashioned, heavy andponderous

Hob Nob - Member

The reality is, they probably don't want to, because they don't need to.

Yup- Orange are limited (with the UK bikes at least) by what they can produce, and they can sell everything they make, so they've no motivation to be competitive on price. And it seems like they've decided to cut down on the far eastern hardtails too. TBH it feels like they're very happy with the company as it is, and fair play to them.

Still, there's some things that are just a bit pisstakey, like the BB upgrades that cost the same as RRP, and you don't even get the original part that you're upgrading.

whitestone - Member
Second trail I think is the one beneath Guisecliffe (nr Pateley Bridge), featured in another video recently.

Thank you

Why do these threads always have to descend into a pointless discussion about price? We seem to be able to have a discussion about the merits of a PYGA, for example, without even mentioning the £1750 price tag. Price must be the least interesting thing about the Five. Let's face it, Orange, like everybody else, charge what the market will bear. If you don't like the bike, can't afford it, or just don't think it is worth it; just don't buy it. But the fact that Orange are still in business means that they've got the price about right.

Visually, I must be one of the few people who liked the kinked top tube, but I don't mind the new look. The straight lines do make it look more purposeful, but I'm not sold on the stickers. I reckon that big slab sided swingarm needs more decoration.

The geometry tweaks are interesting. If they keep going maybe it will end up being as good as the 26" version 🙂

Why is talking about the price not relevant?
If it's too expensive thats a damn good argument for not buying one.

Then don't buy one, but the simple fact that Orange are still in business means that they've got the price right for their market.

To be pedantic, I didn't say that the price is irrelevant. For an individual it's highly relevant, it's just not interesting.

Talking about OEM- I've seen plenty of examples where manufacturers produce the same product but with less quality materials. Tyres and forks are the main culprits.

If you look at '14 Revs, I've got an OEM set that came on a bike with less adjustments than an RL and painted in a horrible gloss black. You wouldn't be able to buy these separately in a shop. When I took them out for a service I noticed that they are heavier and the internals feel/look cheaper than the retail forks.

Orange spec OEM forks on their line up, hence the gloss black, however they do use the same internals as the normal forks. Not sure about steerer material.

Same goes for tyres, Nobby Nics are a good example, the OEM tyres on lots of bikes are made from the worst compound imaginable. It feels like solid plastic.

You wouldn't be able to tell the difference visually with either forks or tyres unless you actually take time to look at them. I think manufacturers are often buying the image, rather than a good functioning product.

Anyway, I prefer the looks of the '14/'15 Five. The brace and straight TT suit the Alpine more.
[IMG] [/IMG]
[IMG] [/IMG]

Just looks like every other Five. Never a bike thats done anything for me personally. Mind you, Orange bikes never have.

Looks miles better with a straight top tube rather than the bent one, mine was the last model before they went bent, great bike, awful manitou swinger shock

If they did the segment with that top tube I'd definitely be in the market for one