[Closed] Orange Bikes - no more DH bikes 🙁

A minutes silence?

It makes sense from a business perspective for them - "freeride" bikes like the patriot have fallen way out of fashion, and it must be hard to sell a downhill bike with zero world cup pedigree. The last time it was successful at that level was nearly a decade ago. It's probably still a great bike, but most people are going to want what they see on the podium every sunday.

What are trail centre car park dwellers going to do now?

I can see where they are coming from downhill bikes are so specialized you ride it down for 2 minutes then what you cant really do anything else on it like a trail centre or ride to the pub can you ?

I can see where they are coming from downhill bikes are so specialized you ride it down for 2 minutes then what you cant really do anything else on it like a trail centre or ride to the pub can you ?

"freeride" bikes like the patriot have fallen way out of fashion, and it must be hard to sell a downhill bike with zero world cup pedigree. The last time it was successful at that level was nearly a decade ago. It's probably still a great bike, but most people are going to want what they see on the podium every sunday.

I think the Patriot (if re-imagined today) would still be in fashion, a DH bike that can pedal uphill, that's "enduro". Just that model creep has filled that niche with the five, which now has more travel than the original patriot, and the five has been replaced as a burly XC bike by the gyro.

Agree on the lack of exposure for the DH bikes though, they're not much cheeper than the cometition, which all have a propper race pedigree at world cup level. I guess it's a cos thing, DH looks horrificly expensive these days to run a world cup team. The Animal/Peaty era was post the original boom, so I guess he was, post losing his contract with GT, 'cheep'.

jam bo - Member
A minutes silence?

Not a chance, there's still loads of 'em rattling around the woods.

Shame, I guess. When I was a kid, I wanted a 222 more than anything.....in fact I still have a signed poster of Peaty on his, I'll take £200 now it's a piece of history 😐

Went on to the Orange website last night and saw there were no 322's or patriot. Just looks like theres something missing from the site. Makes a little sad, I'm bit of an orange fanboi, not really sure why, but always thought that if numbers came up I'd have an Orange DH bike. Oh well....

Makes sense I think, they probably can't get the new Five and Alpine out the door fast enough and the DH and freeride designs were a little old hat compared to the top bikes on the WC poiums these days. Playing to their strengths makes sense - fun mid travel bikes. I still want one 🙂

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/no-more-322-or-patriot-on-orange-website

The bikes Went off the site last month

Not a chance, there's still loads of 'em rattling around the woods.

Glad someone got it...

I think maybe they finally got embarassed about pretending their current bikes are race-proven at the pointy end... They were still advertising the 224 as the "ultimate world cup race bike" in 2011, and claiming the 322 was at the cutting edge of world cup competition right up to the end, 9 years after the last win...

But it's a shame, I like big Oranges. But they can sell all the bikes they can make so why not make the bikes people want most?

I think maybe they finally got embarassed about pretending their current bikes are race-proven at the pointy end...

Isn't that more about the riders they can afford?

Doesn't really matter why tbh, it's too long to live off past glories.

My sales pitch for my Evo: "Not that fast, but great fun, and piss easy to ride. If you buy a Devinci or a GT you won't be as fast as Stevie or Gee so you might as well get one of these, it's a great laugh" But maybe that's a harder sell 🙂

I think maybe they finally got embarassed about pretending their current bikes are race-proven at the pointy end...

Isn't that more about the riders they can afford?

I'd have thought so. Bit of a bitchy thing to say.

I reckon they just weren't selling, which isn't surprising when you can pick up a complete bike from other manufacturers for the price of the frame.

It's a little surprising how little sponsorship orange do. Even hope has more riders out there at all kinds of events (Rob Jebb at the 3 peaks?) showing off their components. The only riders I know still showing off orange frames are the cut media people, and possibly Danny Mac to some extent. Even if orange don't have the money to run a full DH team, they could probably still afford a rider or two at the enduro world series. Especially now that Joe Barnes et. al. have gone to canyon.

Maybe they do sell enough frames entirely from their reputation that they figure it's not cost effective to sponsor people, who knows.

Wasn't intended to be bitchy, just an observation... Lots of folks do big bikes that aren't racewinners, they just tend not to bang on about race results as much as Orange do.

Orange do a fair bit of event support- No Fuss stuff etc. And they're pretty canny with their visibility boosting stuff. Give Guy Martin a bike, it'll be seen (though he might slate it when you're not looking 😉 )

Ahhhh no, how am I going to pick up a second hand patriot in a couple of years now!

Guess my 223 will have to soldier on

propper race pedigree at world cup level

I think the 224 was one of the winningest chassis in DH history? Certainlly well into the top ten.

I think part of the problem is that they refuse to die, if you want to ride a 224 you can probably pick up an original for under £300 and with a fivers worth of bearings off you go. Why would you buy a new one?

The idea that orange cant sell DH bikes due to lack of sponsorship is silly. They are not making them due to demand.

Im sure orange can afford to sponsor as many DHers as they like. Whats the average salary of a pro DH rider these days? Last time I checked it was about 1 bike and race entry fees!

oliverd1981 - Member

I think the 224 was one of the winningest chassis in DH history?

At the highest levels, the 223'd have it beat surely? But either way, not that relevant to the modern age. I can't think of an orange wc win since Tracey Hannah and that would have been 2 models ago.

Fatbikes next? 😀

853 inline please 😉

maybe let on-ones bikes to make dh frame. there is always some welders to wield a cool cromo dh bike!

Im sure orange can afford to sponsor as many DHers as they like. Whats the average salary of a pro DH rider these days? Last time I checked it was about 1 bike and race entry fees!

It's a shame, but there's probably no market for them.

How many people ride downhill these days? I don't follow it much anymore, but last time i went of SDH, it was dead.

I guess everyone's doing enduro, more riding for your money.

This years BDS at Llangollen was well supported, both on the rider and spectator front.

And there were loads of Oranges present.

I wouldn't of said dh riding is no longer in vogue venues are starting up all over the place and they are packed out, I think the 322 was just too expensive compared to the competition 5k can get you some carbon loveliness. For myself I can justify spending a few quid on an xc bike because I ride it a lot but as with a lot of people my dh bike probably gets used a few times a month at most and with companies like yt offering good bikes at a good price, but it's not just direct sales you can bag a Morewood Makulu with full Boss for a little over 3k it's no wonder they don't sell.

As with most Oranges the price is an issue, the competition have the price nailed and when you add in entry, lots of travel and spares etc. lower entry price helps. Couple that with a serious lack of exposure on the world stage and it's never going to convince the kids they want one.

In my younger years I always wanted one - probably 'cos back then, they [i]were[/i] racing at WC level. I've got a 222 frame hanging up in the garage (retired), a couple of Patriot frames (2000 and 2002), and now on the lookout for a 224.

Despite how much I like them, ironically I've always considered them way out of my price range, so always purchased second hand (several years old) - which is no help to Orange themselves. If I did have that cash lying around, then I [i]would[/i] buy one - but I simply don't!

I do (well, [i]did[/i] now!) have a savings account for buying a new Orange DH - in a few years time - you'd be amazed how much loose change you can easily spend on crap! Couple of quid here and there (put into savings, instead of squandering) slowly added up...

Between myself and my riding friends we have probably had at least 15 different Orange DH bikes since the 222 was released... All have been raced and we all loved each and every one. Probably half of the bikes have podiumed somewhere along the line... It's a sad state of affairs. I had already decided my trusty 224 was the last DH bike I would ever buy, and I guess that has settled it... 😐
[img] [/img]

Have to admit I'd always liked the look of Orange bikes when I used to flip through old issues of MBUK. Probably wouldn't want one now though, they look very dated apart from the newest Patriots, plus there are probably much better suspension designs.

I heard their moving to the new enduro platform 😯

I'll get me coat.

This years BDS at Llangollen was well supported, both on the rider and spectator front

It's not that well supported though, it took MONTHS to sell the ~300 odd spaces for nearly all the rounds, and that was only after it was opened up to basically anyone with a BC licence.

The welsh champs at bike park Wales had around a 1000 spectators on the hill over the weekend.
Don't tell me dh is dead.
Edit : have a look at the Pearce cycles races. Always full straight away with a waiting list.

[url= http://www.stif.co.uk/mtb/product/orange-322-downhill-mountain-bike-frame-2013/10957?gclid=COb_hdnWi7oCFalepgodHicAZw ]Orange 322 RRP £2399[/url]
or
[url= http://www.singletrackbikes.co.uk/m1b73s1p22753/SARACEN_Myst_Pro_2013/RS_GB/47696?gclid=CJeajOnWi7oCFYhbpgodznkAew ]Saracen Myst Pro RRP £2899 reduced to £2399[/url]

one of these makes sense

The welsh champs at bike park Wales had around a 1000 spectators on the hill over the weekend.
Don't tell me dh is dead.
Edit : have a look at the Pearce cycles races. Always full straight away with a waiting list.

It's easy to pick the odd examples. BPW was always going to be full, it was a new venue that people hadn't raced at for year & being a Regional Champs at the end of the season with double points on offer people are hunting for.

Pearce seems to be the sole exception to the rule. Most other series are struggling for entries, pulling races, questioning running a series & in some cases just sacking it off because it's not working.

Little local, push up £20 on the day ~1 minute racing seem to be doing well though.

I could write chapter and verse on it, as someone who raced a fair bit, including the BDS with a big group of riders, some of whom racing expert & elite. Between us now, we probably race five or six DH races a year.

Don't tell me dh is dead.

Don't think anyone said that. What they did say is that Orange can't sell any of their DH bikes, which is something different.

Gravity assited riding is definitley on the increase, but DH bikes are pretty expensive and the new fangled 160+mm bikes are so good they can handle a proper DH track pretty well with decent rider.

Right I'm going to buy myself a 222, get some mini discs to use as spokey dokes and it ride around Dalston 🙂

Seriously though, sad day. But, quote "We're not ruling out a return".

I love downhill and I follow the race scene. I ride mostly downhill and I have have recently purchased a downhill bike. I've owned three long travel Orange's in the past including a 224. There is no way I would have purchased a 322 as it's just one of the least desirable DH bikes available and at a sky high price. Someone must have finally looked at what you can get elsewhere for the price and decided they couldn't compete.

Orange were at their best in the late 90's, early 2000's when all full suspension bikes were a bit ropey and shocks were pap. At least then they had the advantage of simplicity and reliability. These days though, almost everything else is better.

I don't follow it much anymore, but last time i went of SDH, it was dead.

I noticed that when I went to look at the classifieds there, by the look of some of the user names I think a lot of us have pitched up here, always was a good forum that one.

DHers are very much focused on the suspension side of things, and Orange's designs are (rightly or wrongly) perceived as very simplistic. People want "better" suspension, whether it's actually better or not, and go for the more sophisticated designs. Aesthetics play a part too.

What Orange have been trying to do is sell a product that's (to a lot of folks) not great looking, is perceived in the marketplace as quite basic and unsophisticated, and sell it at a premium price in a market stocked with cheaper frames with race pedigree (like the Wilson). No surprise they struggled, to be honest.

My 'Race Proven'(it has the sticker on the top tube, so it must be true), 2001 model Patriot has been ridden in many guises and I've loved every one of them. It's currently half built as a downhill bike, but still has less travel than my current Five!

Wouldn't part with it, because I love it to bits, even though it's stupidly heavy and steers like a cow (I call it Ermintrude to reflect this). What's really special about this bike is the memories of grand days out, the crashes and the laughs.

It's a keeper!

B. 8)

[quote=razorrazoo]I noticed that when I went to look at the classifieds there, by the look of some of the user names I think a lot of us have pitched up here, always was a good forum that one.

Their *rebranding* exercise backfired quite badly on them. SouthernDownhill.com -> Ride.io

Those who had been there for years saw it as a time to leave the scene - equally with social media, it's impossible to attract "new" members.

(Although STW has boomed in the last few years, IIRC, almost as a refreshing alternative to Facebook)

RIP SDH 🙁

EDIT:

[quote=Beagleboy]My 'Race Proven'(it has the sticker on the top tube, so it must be true), 2001 model Patriot has been ridden in many guises and I've loved every one of them. It's currently half built as a downhill bike, but still has less travel than my current Five!

Wouldn't part with it, because I love it to bits, even though it's stupidly heavy and steers like a cow (I call it Ermintrude to reflect this). What's really special about this bike is the memories of grand days out, the crashes and the laughs.

It's a keeper!

*waves*

Patriot LT (2000) over here!

[img] [/img]

IMO SDH had a couple of overly zealous moderators who took a dislike to anything if it was a bit left field.

Whereas half the people on here come on to chat shite rather than discuss shock tuning.

Maybe people are just more focused on sticker price these days. It could just be my failing memory, but it seems to me that we used to think more about value for money whereas now it just seems to be about price, which is very different.

Any mountain bike that gets ridden lots for many years is good value. Any bike that just hangs in your shed is poor value, regardless of how cheap you thought it was when you bought it. So things like longevity, resale value etc are just as important as the initial purchase price, yet all I ever seem to hear about Orange bikes is that they are expensive to buy.

Had some time out of the sport due to young family so had not been of SDH for a few years, went back and found a distinct lack of activity so left it alone. Only consistent that remained was Archie posting pics of another 'new' warm hatch.

222 was my first DH bike, it is still missed, though not in the same way as my old M1.

So things like longevity, resale value etc are just as important as the initial purchase price, yet all I ever seem to hear about Orange bikes is that they are expensive to buy.

Your argument might hold some water regarding Orange's trail bikes (if they had a longer warranty), but the DH frame was way too costly tbh.

Only consistent that remained was Archie posting pics of another 'new' warm hatch.

😀

roverpig - Member

So things like longevity, resale value etc are just as important as the initial purchase price, yet all I ever seem to hear about Orange bikes is that they are expensive to buy.

Longevity and resale of a 224 was never that good, though- not the most durable of frames. (mine is a rarity, it's got the same number of welds it left the factory with 😉 )

I always found SDH to be a lot like this place used to be. An impenetrable nest of spineless, pedantic, willy-waving, argumentative, tossers.

But anyway, this was my last Orange;
[img] [/img]

Perfect in size, geometry and spec but rode like a donkey. The rear suspension and back brake won't work at the same time so it bucks around all over the place. Got it for trade price and immediately wish I'd bought a Demo or Session which I could have got from the same shop.

[quote=sharkattack]I always found SDH to be a lot like this place [s]used to be[/s]. An impenetrable nest of spineless, pedantic, willy-waving, argumentative, tossers.

Fixed.

Only consistent that remained was Archie posting pics of another 'new' warm hatch.

That and pics of spotless downhill bikes leant against picnic tables in the grounds of mummy and daddies house.

SDH used to be ok. Rebranding it? Huge mistake! I went on the other week to see if there were any forks for sale. I remember when a post in the classifieds dropped off the front page in a matter of hours and there was stuff there from the week before when I looked last week.

I always found SDH to be a lot like this place used to be. An impenetrable nest of spineless, pedantic, willy-waving, argumentative, tossers

Find me an internet forum that isn't like that. I just try to find ones which keep this to a bear minimum of 95% bulls@&t content.

The rebrand kinda made sense, I met some SDH members at fort william and they all said, more or less, "why are you on Southern Downhill when you're so very not southern?" It'd gone national but still had a regional name. But who calls it ride.io? That's one of those meaningless teflon brand names that you can't really attach anything to. Still SDH to most folks I think.

SDH demise was strange, like everyone had decided to stop using it on one particular day.....that happened to coincide with their rebrand 🙄

I'm a SDH refugee, ended up here, it's ok I guess. There were a few dicks, but seemingly way less than there are here. I pop back now and then to see the same thread sat exactly where it was before, no new replies.

DH doesn't really make much sense in the UK. Our big hills are mostly in protected areas, uplifts are slow, expensive and, damage bikes (looking at you, Innerliethen) and often the scene is full of smug pyjama boys sneering because you missed the high line. It's one big willy waving session that's hardly inviting to new folks. Enduro does make sense. More race time, friendly atmosphere, can compete on any bike. It's still expensive mind. I don't think anyone can be to surprised by the decline of DH in the UK.

I've had numerous long travel Orange:

Patriot LT
2x Patriot 66 (mk1)
Patriot -2008 version right before they cancelled it
Original 224

I found that each one had perfect (for me) geometry, robust and predictable handling and suspension characteristics. The 224 was an amazing DH bike in 2006, with virtually pioneering slack head angle and low BB that made it a hoot. Coupled with the Swinger 4-way shock it seemed to make speed out of every rock root and trail feature; I'd pop over a stump or big root and it seemed to fire me forward; I'd hit a berm quicker on this than the Norco A-line it replaced, the suspension would squat into the berm and seemingly dig in until it was time to shoot you out the other side. Everything else I rode felt dead yet still nervous in comparison.

All that said, I would now agree that despite Orange big travel bikes having something a little special, they're just too expensive. When I can buy a Taiwanese made frame, assembled in Germany with mostly top drawer parts, that will perform just as well as the Orange with an identical build kit, for less than the price of the Orange frame alone, then basic economics dictates where my money will go.

I also think their seemingly wholesale move to 27.5 wheels is a mistake. I've tried both 27.5 & 29" bikes and neither made me think "this is loads better than 26" - rather I was left wondering about all the fuss. I wouldn't be surprised if Orange slowly disappear.

Does this mean my 224 EVO is now a collectors item?

No, its the Citroen Saxo of the mountain bike world now.

Our big hills are mostly in protected areas, uplifts are slow, expensive and, damage bikes (looking at you, Innerliethen) and often the scene is full of smug pyjama boys sneering because you missed the high line. It's one big willy waving session that's hardly inviting to new folks.

I dont agree, I've been into riding DH and local timed events for the last 2 years, never had anything but good folks at uplifts and tracks and got to know some really good riders who are totally sound, some kids drink too much Monster get a bit excited but thats it. Pearce events where an eye opener for me, amazing setup and dedication and very welcoming.

DH doesn't really make much sense in the UK. Our big hills are mostly in protected areas, uplifts are slow, expensive and, damage bikes (looking at you, Innerliethen) and often the scene is full of smug pyjama boys sneering because you missed the high line. It's one big willy waving session that's hardly inviting to new folks. Enduro does make sense. More race time, friendly atmosphere, can compete on any bike. It's still expensive mind. I don't think anyone can be to surprised by the decline of DH in the UK.

Does the success of Antur Stiniog and Bike Park Wales not kind of suggest otherwise?

I've been to a few DH places and found everyone very friendly. I agree about the lack of decent uplifts though.

often the scene is full of smug pyjama boys sneering because you missed the high line. It's one big willy waving session that's hardly inviting to new folks.

I don't think this is a DH specific issue. Any of the more extreme sports (or sides of sports) have their fair share of idiots who sneer at the lack of Gnar/latest kit/ability to send huge gap/trick etc and give the rest of the community a bad name. Seen it is skating, snowboarding, dirt jumping and so on. Sad thing is a lot of them are the all the gear no idea brigade. We used to call them Groms when we skated back in the day.

The 224 was an amazing DH bike in 2006, with virtually pioneering slack head angle and low BB that made it a hoot.

Replace 224 with IH Sunday and you might be on to something there

Yeah, they are popular, I specifically meant a racing scenario though. Sorry, I didn't make that too clear. I think possibly people are finally realising that they don't [i]reeaaaally[/i] need full DH bikes to enjoy places like that.

Descent world was the other forum that got "rebranded".

Descent world was the other forum that got "rebranded"

Did that combine with SDH in a sort of North/South coming together?

Nope D-W still exists. Iirc the server got fried, so they went for the backup - which was on the same server - doh! Combined with mods who were being absolute Nazis for a while, it was doomed

I don't think this is a DH specific issue. Any of the more extreme sports (or sides of sports) have their fair share of idiots who sneer at the lack of Gnar/latest kit/ability to send huge gap/trick etc and give the rest of the community a bad name. Seen it is skating, snowboarding, dirt jumping and so on. Sad thing is a lot of them are the all the gear no idea brigade. We used to call them Groms when we skated back in the day.

I thought groms was a surfing term used for kids?!?

The worst 'sport' for upyourownarsedness for me was climbing. Climbing is great but full of ****ers who don't like people entering their sport.

Oh and Golf, golfers really are twunts!!

Fractured my Acetabular at Bringewood on an Orange 222, loved that bike, up until that crash anyway.

I thought groms was a surfing term used for kids?!?

I think it's one of those terms which has been passed on between 'extreme' sports.

thing is a lot of them are the all the gear no idea brigade. We used to call them

......serps you call them 😆

Anyway I'd say that quote applies to the 99.9% of folks on here tbh! 😉

thing is a lot of them are the all the gear no idea brigade. We used to call them

......serps you call them 😆

Anyway I'd say that quote applies to the 99.9% of folks on here tbh! 😉

Did someone say something?
Edit: Pussy use one of your other logins if you want a reply to whatever BS you intend spouting today.

Does the success of Antur Stiniog and Bike Park Wales not kind of suggest otherwise?

No, because the target market for them isn't DH, it's the middle ground. People on trail & AM bikes who want to have a concentrated hit of gravity biased trails

Wellll... Is that true? I mean, yes Antur and BPW are pitched to be appealing to all riders not just dhers but it's not really any different to innerleithen or similiar older venues when you ride there- it's always been fine to do dh on a little bike, just that most people didn't.

Maybe enduro racing's helped with that as people end up dipping their toes, maybe it's normal bikes getting better... I think maybe we're just finally getting over that "not for us" mentality that saw loads of riders happy to do uplifts on holiday but never do them in the uk.

I think the quality of the suspension these days has a lot to do with it, I mean how many of us can actually ride a modern DH bike to anywhere near it limits, or would even want to for that matter? I'm not athletic, skilled or brave enough, which means that riding a DH bike these days is less fun than a really sorted 160mm travel bike. I can go pretty quick still and have more fun and have a more versatile bike. I used to own a DH bike but I don't any more.

I can go pretty quick still and have more fun and have a more versatile bike.

This.

My 150mm F 140mm R bike does everything I need it to do reasonably well. Its only got 25% less travel than most of my old DH bikes had, it weights around 30lb, pedals well, goes uphill quickly, is fun on the downs, nails single track, stops without fuss, the seat goes up and down at the push of a button and it does not fall apart after a bit of abuse.

As has been mentioned, with slacker angles and longer suss the norm on 'standard' bikes the All Mountain Patriot and DH only 322 had no where to go and had their toes stepped on by the Alpine 160 and to some degree the 5 and 5 29. Does anyone sell many DH bikes anymore?

It's just like the P7 or 26" HT bikes. If the demand in the market returns I'm sure Orange will respond.

Apologies if this has already been mentioned above, but with Jared Graves riding a Yeti SB66 to 3rd place at the recent downhill World Champs, there must be a few bike companies nervously looking at their downhill bikes and wondering if the market is big enough for them.