[Closed] Orange are going to sell a lot of Stage 5s

It just looks like any other Orange FS to me.

Looked at this earlier... I'd have one if it was more realistically priced

I really like both the stage 5 and 6 but wish they we're a touch longer in the reach.

Looks like most other recent oranges since the Alpine. Not a bad thing. And the sizing looks spot on for once unlike every other orange which always seem tiny.

But unlikely I'd ever afford one!

I got all excited until I saw it was £5500. 😐

Hopefully cheaper variations are planned once early adopters are [s]fleeced[/s] err, satisfied.

I suspect like every other orange you can buy it frame only. In which case it will be priced similarly to virtually every other FS frame about £1500-£1600. I would never buy a full build orange as they are too expensive and generally I would want to change things. I have a
2017 Orange Five, purchased frame only. It is light years ahead of previous model fives. Rides like
An absolute dream

For a moment there I thought Orange had made a bike that doesn't look like a complete dog...

And the sizing looks spot on for once unlike every other orange which always seem tiny.

For the last few years Orange have been making some of the longest bikes on the market...

I like it but I want a bottle mount.

I was all excited about these until I saw the chainstay length a while ago, but I might have a demo on one anyway to see if I'm just being too fussy.

It's interesting that they're starting out with full builds and Hope are selling only full bikes.

I think these days with some shopping around you can build a bike with parts that suit you for less than many of the full builds, especially if you're prepared to use a few choice used parts.

Looks like it'd be similar to my codeine with a slackset, but with more reach and slightly longer rear end which sounds ace, but I suspect a frame will be well out of my price range especially with an X2.

Having owned a 5 29 I can tell you the Stage 5 and 6 will fly! Prefer the look of the 6 but think I will stick with my Segment as the longer travel 29ers are a hell of a lot of bike. The 5 29 was almost too much for me and I prefer the tighter rear on the Segment.

I've rode the stage 6, goes rather fast. It's small though but then again i compare every bike now to my geometron which is a proper size!

I think it'll sell- the Five struggled because nobody really got it, in all honesty it was more a 29er Alpine. Which was AWESOME but at the time, massive 29ers weren't really that big a thing. And then they switched it to the Alpine Five and that added even more confusion, with an added dose of "it's just the old bike" to put people off. Shame, it was bloody brilliant.

But "2017 will be when the media finally talk about sorted trail 29ers as established (and not a new fad)"- I think that was about 2013. The only place they're not totally established is the long travel gig and I reckon that's 50% because of 650b nonsense drawing away that market for a while, and 50% because people just assume they know what they ride like, and don't think they'll be good at this:

[img] [/img]

I think the Stage 5'll sell more but I've a feeling the 6 might turn out to be the best bike Orange have ever made.

It's still £5500 for an aluminium single pivot which many will find hard to get their head around I think. Not saying it's not awesome, I've not ridden it, but £5500 gets you a lot of carbon from boutique brands and that will be a challenge.

It's still £5500 for an aluminium single pivot which many will find hard to get their head around I think. Not saying it's not awesome, I've not ridden it, but £5500 gets you a lot of carbon from boutique brands and that will be a challenge.

I'm sure they'll be doing other builds and frame-only options in due course.

Their full builds may not be great value still, but they have got a lot better in terms of what they are speccing on them. And it's not unusual to see promotions that almost make them seem decent value.

Look nice. Shame these weren't around six months ago when I got a segment. Lovely bike but could of been slightly slacker and longer. Orange aren't overly generous with top tube length even in XL.

Segment travel, stage 5 head angle and stage 6 top tube would do me.

The new hydroformed tubes and split rear end look mint, but I think I'll still prefer my middle ground old shape five29 anyway

I've ridden the stage 5 and it was great. Instantly confidence inspiring, didn't have any adjusting time was happy to just hop on and let it go.
will make a great all round bike that'll take anything you can throw at it.

But as Tom says, pricing at present puts it inline with the likes of a Santa cruz hightower CC build. (would say some things on the orange are slightly better spec, but that's personal preference). Considering there is probably 1k of difference in frame only cost, that's quite a bit!

Wish the Five and Stage 5 had the split swingarm like the Four.. looks much better.

The Five still looks better than in photos though so hopefully the same with the Stage 5.

It's still £5500 for an aluminium single pivot which many will find hard to get their head around I think. Not saying it's not awesome, I've not ridden it, but £5500 gets you a lot of carbon from boutique brands and that will be a challenge.

Both look like they'll be great bikes, but would like to see some bottle mounts. Even if it meant side entry cage and/or 500ml bottle only.

Owned a Five , Alpine Crush and now own a P7 and Alpine 5 29er

The alpine 5 has been the best by far and i will end up with a 6 at some point but frame only not bike ..not at 5.5k

Having bought a tallboyLT the day they came out many many moons ago the stage 6 did have me quite excited. I'll echo above though, for that money I'd stick with Santa Cruz. All very hypothetical, the LT does me fine.

I'm sure they will sell a few in the UK, they still won't get far past the channel though.

I think these days with some shopping around you can build a bike with parts that suit you for less than many of the full builds, especially if you're prepared to use a few choice used parts.

Do you think we will see a frame only option in the future?

Yes

I thought it looked very nice, had a quick browse of the Orange site and realized that frame only with a top end shock could well end up being in the region of 2k!

Big ouch!

I got all excited until I saw it was £5500

😯

I think £2000 with an x2 is pretty par for the course. You will no doubt be able to buy a frame with a slightly lower spec shock for £1600 like every other orange full suspension in the range. Sunset cycles will then chuck in a hope headset and customs colour option as always.

For comparison a Cotic Rocket is £1500 with an x-fusion shock. So the Orange is priced pretty fairly in comparison. That said I just can't see why anyone would want to spend £5500 on the full build!

When i consider that i bought a Whyte T130SX for less money than just the frame is going to cost, it makes me think "NO... that's just not happening".. I'm sure they'll sell loads... but it certainly won't be to me.

I sure they will. My point is the frame only options are pretty much on a track with most other smaller manufacturers. Given that orange are hand built in the uk, I think the pricing is pretty good when you consider they have to pay their staff UK rates. Comparing a frame only purchase to a discounted entry level Whyte is unfair. There are many bikes cheaper than your Whyte. Different people see value at different levels, which is fine and great that we have the variety.

Did someone say geometry?

[url= https://geometrygeeks.bike/bike/orange-stage-5-2017/ ]https://geometrygeeks.bike/bike/orange-stage-5-2017/[/url]

😉

Just looks like a 5 with bigger wheels and an even bigger price tag. Sure the Range Rover / Breitling gang will love it.

^ 😆

The fact that they're being marketed as serious race bikes won't hurt the sales figures either.
They do both look good.
I was trying to hunt down a 5-29 to replace my old 26"five but couldn't find one for the right price (IE cheap) so got a Codeine instead.

Renton to the forum

£5500! you could buy an e-bike for that 😉

Talking of which how much is their new e-bike going to cost?

Nothing really tempting for me.
I'm still waiting for a Bird 29er.

They look like cut-and-shut jobs. Front has slightly curvy, seemingly hydroformed top tube (and brace). Rear end is a typically agricultural arm. I don't mind the curvy look. I don't mind straight lines. But not shunted together like that.

AlexSimon - Nothing really tempting for me.
I'm still waiting for a Bird 29er.

I'd like to see what Airdrop could do with a 29er too.

As for the orange, there's nothing there to tempt me away from what I already have.

Re: Bird - I reckon we're more likely to see a ~170mm Aeris before a 29er as that will pretty much cover the travel range. Personally I'd love a Ti Zero AM (did someone say mid-life crisis?)

I note they wont even admit how heavy their £5k bike is.

Stage 5 looks great!
They're covering a massive range of travel now.
A fair bit of their range is overlapping too..

I'm still waiting for a Bird 29er.

I'd be interested in this too but I think they said it wouldn't be any time soon as they are not a fan of the 29er format.

I believe Ben from Bird hinted on here a while back that they had a 29er HT in the pipeline.

If I was them I'd also have a FS 29er in development now as well, but that might just be wishful thinking on my part.

Perhaps it is just me but £5500 for a push bike 😯 😯 That's motorbike or car money to me.

hooli - Member
Perhaps it is just me but £5500 for a push bike

For the last few years Orange have been making some of the longest bikes on the market...

Last time I was in the market for a new bike they'd just released the 17" five. Which was fine (and long-ish) if you're 5ft9.

It's still £5500 for an aluminium single pivot which many will find hard to get their head around I think. Not saying it's not awesome, I've not ridden it, but £5500 gets you a lot of carbon from boutique brands and that will be a challenge.

I think in their defence:
1) It's made in the UK, this will always cost a bit more and appeal to people that that matters to.

2) They are as 'boutique' as any expensive brand. In fact even Specialized sell ~160mm travel 29ers for £6k, it's par for the course on top shelf builds.

3) Aluminium isn't carbon, but then people will happily pay FS money for a steel or Ti hardtail. I think most people would just go out bike shopping for a bike that does X, Y and Z. Whether one happens to be carbon, one 650b, one fox, one rock shox will be secondary to how it actually rides.

I'm sure they will sell a few in the UK, they still won't get far past the channel though.

We're still in the post Brexit "everything's 20% off as long as your a foreigner, UK sale".

2) They are as 'boutique' as any expensive brand. In fact even Specialized sell ~160mm travel 29ers for £6k, it's par for the course on top shelf builds.

True but spesh, trek, santa cruz will give you a carbon frame with similar components and geometry. Spesh will throw in Ohlins suspension and carbon wheels for £6k

thisisnotaspoon - I think in their defence:
1) It's made in the UK, this will always cost a bit more

Only if its part of your marketing

It's an aspirationally-priced launch model for the fanboys (and for people in the trade to buy on staff discount).

Cheaper and better-value builds will be available, hopefully.

How are Orange still surviving...

Who is to say that carbon is better than alloy anyway?
Like I have said compare orange frame pricing to many other manufacturers and it's there or there abouts. If you like single pivot bikes built for the uk conditions then they are great. Price wise completely comparable to other small brands full build prices pissed I have to admit.

As to weight my 2017 Five weights in at 28lbs with heavy tyres. Which is lighter than many of my friends carbon bikes. Thing is with Orange is its fashionable to hate them so people either sit in one of two camps - haters and fanbois.

How are Orange still surviving...

You not go to many local MTB spots do you? They are everywhere! Probably second only to YT Capras

Who is to say that carbon is better than alloy anyway?
Like I have said compare orange frame pricing to many other manufacturers and it's there or there abouts.

If you like single pivot bikes built for the uk conditions then they are great.

How are Orange still surviving...

Have you ridden many of them? People love them because they do generally ride really well.

True but spesh, trek, santa cruz will give you a carbon frame with [b]similar components and geometry[/b].

My point was rather that
a) Specialized are pretty mainstream even if that is their expensive build. Boutique would have to mean something different. Canfield, Chromag, Orange, Trying to think of other brands that are still built in-house or even in-country to justify a price tag above the average. In fact in that company Orange are remarkably good value!

b) The important bit is in bold

Spesh will throw in Ohlins suspension and carbon wheels for £6k

I know, shocking, Orange can afford a £1100 fork whilst Specialized have stuck with the budget £850 option (both are stupid prices).

mikewsmith - Member

Grease ports in my linkages, keeps everything nice and smooth. The single pivot low UK maintenance is a myth, good design gets round the multi pivot problem

I for one can definitely see the sense in buying a £5500 bike to save £30 a year on bearings.

Oh no wait, it'll probably come with Hope hubs so what you save on frame bearings you'll spend on wheel bearings compared to better sealed hubs. Never mind.

it's a load of bobbins, pivot maintenance is lost in the rounding when you consider the actual life cost of a bike. I spent as much on stickers for the hemlock as I did on bearings, and god knows how many times more than that on diesel.

it's a load of bobbins, pivot maintenance is lost in the rounding when you consider the actual life cost of a bike. I spent as much on stickers for the hemlock as I did on bearings, and god knows how many times more than that on diesel.

not just about cost though, knocking out the bearings (and snapping bearing pullers) on my old kona was a right pita!

not that id pay that much for a bike, mind

im tight

I really do think Orange should just sell direct these days, if that's the best they can do price wise. Maybe even just solely sell frames, I just don't understand how an alloy frame + Fox 36, with a £1000 of groupset + wheels + finishing kit can ever be £5500.

I wondered what Canyon Strive you could have for that money, sadly they don't make bikes for that kind of money. Even the carbon Strive with X01 Eagle would leave you with enough change for a holiday.

Why should they make them any cheaper?

They supposedly cannot keep up with demand so cheaper prices would just mean less profit.

I'm not so sure, it looks like any one of the multitude of Enduro bikes

If you like single pivot bikes built for the uk conditions then they are great.

Grease ports in my linkages, keeps everything nice and smooth. The single pivot low UK maintenance is a myth, good design gets round the multi pivot problem

Who said I was talking about the single pivot being the part suited to uk conditions? It's not just about the pivot is it? Good old threaded Bb's, thought around cable routing, a durable finish.

Better shapes, less manufacturing constraints etc. stiffness and flex where you want it.

Are you saying that's not possible with alloy frames then? Sure there are benefits to carbon but there are also disadvantages. Is it not nice to have a choice nowadays?

Why should they make them any cheaper?

They supposedly cannot keep up with demand so cheaper prices would just mean less profit.

This is probably the best reason anyone has come up with. Because they can get away with it.

Their bikes are much cheaper for the European market now.

Good for them. Personally I think they are significantly overpriced. But that is what branding is all about. Well done to them for creating the brand and for being able to part people with more cash than is necessary. Smart folk....

If I had to put money on a bike lasting ride after ride through a couple of UK winters with minimal servicing, it would be an Orange every time, not a Canyon.

Kudos for Orange for making a success of UK manufacturing, despite the forumite hordes decrying them as too expensive. I wonder how many of the complainers would be happy to be working in a Chinese carbon frame factory?

Because they can get away with it??? Really??? Are orange owners really that limited in choice that they are forced to spend £££ on a bike....come one have a word with yourself. Price vs value is different between person. What I perceive as value is very different to the next person. I find Orange frames good value, I find their complete build prices too much and as such poor value. I would not buy SRAM groupsets as I find the price vs the shoddiness poor value. Everyone is different and the nice thing about the mtb industry is there is so much variety and options available we can all make purchasing decisions based on our own perceptions of value vs cost.

45 frames a week according to Steve Wade- IIRC that's as many as they can fold parts for with the hardware they have/have access to (since they only did it that way because of the sheet metal business) It must make for pretty interesting decisions about what to make- you get the feeling some of the models are mostly for brand positioning/visibility rather than individual profitability.

If they can't make enough frames to meet demand, they'd be absolute idiots not to sell it for as much as they can. It did make the Five 29 too expensive for me- I got my entire Remedy for about what a used Five frame was selling for! And IMO it's a better bike. But as long as enough people think it's worth the price, that's fine.

(though, if I'd paid asking price for my 224 Evo, which looked like it'd been welded by a drunk and painted in the dark, I'd have sent it back...)

It's quite funny, 45 seems a really low number but sometimes it seems like Fives and Alpines are the most common bikes in the world.

chiefgrooveguru - Member

I wonder how many of the complainers would be happy to be working in a Chinese carbon frame factory?

I think I'd get on better in a carbon factory. I mean, I don't speak chinese but I actually have some of the skills. Put me to work welding frames and I'm going to set myself on fire.

Ahhhh...nothing like a new Orange bike announcement to get the forum debate going. Again.

There can't be another bike manufacturer that divides opinion so much (apart from maybe On One, but probably less so lately). 😆

UK manufacturing is as overrated and inflated as the prices bike companies are getting away with now a days.

This whole "support UK" dialogue is getting super tiring to hear in such a upper middle class market. Justify spending you're money on whatever you want. If some people can't sleep at night buying a YT then they can probably afford not to.

That Orange is over priced and they are just following market trends in relation to costs.. and it still looks like a shitting dog!

I'm not a fan of single pivot on a mountain bike as you can probably tell, however they are slightly better than before now shocks have moved on somewhat in the last 3 years.

[If I had to put money on a bike lasting ride after ride through a couple of UK winters with minimal servicing, it would be an Orange every time, not a Canyon. ]

tbf I have a canyon spectral. I actually wanted a orange 5 as I have always loved them but it was too expensive.

it has lasted me 2 years, its super reliable. haven't needed anything done on the frame yet (pivots / bb /headset) its solid

alexxx - UK manufacturing is as overrated and inflated as the prices bike companies are getting away with now a days.

This whole "support UK" dialogue is getting super tiring to hear in such a upper middle class market. Justify spending you're money on whatever you want. If some people can't sleep at night buying a YT then they can probably afford not to.

chiefgrooveguru - I wonder how many of the complainers would be happy to be working in a Chinese carbon frame factory?

It's quite funny, 45 seems a really low number but sometimes it seems like Fives and Alpines are the most common bikes in the world.

Is that because they're more distinctive? Or because they last longer? Or because they get used more?

This whole "support UK" dialogue is getting super tiring to hear in such a upper middle class market.

I'm sorry, I didn't know the upper middle class were so keen to kill off UK manufacturing entirely and ensure that the working class could instead look forward to a lifetime in call centres...

Have you seen the video of their workshop? Its about 50 years behind a workshop like Hope and I'd imagine no better than most people assume Chinese factories are.

Upper middle class....Wow, I am not sure if thats a compliment or a kick in the nuts.

FWIW my family background is hardly that. My father worked hard in UK engineering and manufacturing, from apprentice through to directorships. I myself am hardly middle class, no university education here. Just someone that works hard and has different appreciations to you. I like UK built things, its not the be all and end all. But its something I value. Especially when in comparison the frames are the same price as most other manufacturers.

AlexSimon - In what way? Worker's Pay? Workers rights? H&S? Or did you just mean you couldn't eat your dinner off the surfaces?

Taiwan and China aren't the same.

If I remember correct a typical wage for a bike welder in Taiwan was about $22k

A day, week, month or year?