[Closed] One for the event marshall types...

Again, time wise, maybe I’m out of sync, as I work in the events industry and a “standard day” is 12hrs (and double days whilst less common than they were are far from unusual), but 10hrs out on the hills isn’t exactly a hardship? A decent Sunday ride may be 7+. I’m there to do the job and it takes as long as it takes. Steelcity this year was 11hrs, The Distance was about 12hrs, although I did get to do some riding (sweep) on that.

Depends how you look at it.  £30/£50 is either covering volunteer marshals costs without having to get everyone to do a mileage form, provide lunch receipts etc and marshalls are doing it altruistically.

Or it's a paid job and £50/10h is less than minimum wage and taking the piss. Although if they had a full complement of marshals and people knew in advance what the 'pay' was then it's probably the correct rate. Slippery slope though, where do you draw the line, plenty of unscrupulous employers would have people working for free as apprentices/interns and day "but it's how you get a start in the ................... industry". Not far removed from "can you do me a pie chart..........."

I've always assumed it was mostly the former.

I used to quite enjoy marshalling and the banter that went with it, chatting line choices with the pros, shouting support and keeping everyone safe, but in the end, there was too much bullshit politics and power games going on, so I sacked it off.

Is that all they get for Ard Rock?  I'd assumed most marshalling 'jobs' were a bit like Glastonbury volunteers - a free ticket/guaranteed entry in exchange for work

If we had to pay for marshalls we wouldn't be able to run an event. Even on our big events (national level) our club people do it for the love of the sport and remembering what it was like when they raced.We get paid in cake 😉

At Southern Enduro we give our marshals the Price £42.5 for 1 dayers or £80 for 2 dayers(champs).

This is not wages its to cover their expenses and make sure they are not left out of pocket in anyway.

We are massively grateful to the marshals for the time they volunteer, events would run without them.

Our champs marshalling total was £3200, it adds up quick.

I'm marshalling the Three Peaks CX this year. I get guaranteed entry for next year out of it. Might get some cake if I'm lucky. The vast majority of marshal work is done purely voluntarily, the exccpetion is the British Cycling Accredited Marhsals (road races) who get their expenses.

Most other events I've marshalled it's been free food / drink or a guaranteed entry next year / next week etc. Some road race leagues make it a condition of racing that you marhsal at least one event and you get league points for it as well. Works great because all the sprinter types choose to marshal the hilly road races and all the climbers marshal the pan flat races and if you marshal you get 10 league points. Failure to marshal means you get docked 20 league points!

I have no issues in helping club events as I like to put back and support grass roots events. As well as marshalling, this has included course marking and trail building for XC races and time keeping for moto enduro, even though I don't compete in those sports.

I think it's very different for larger events where they're being ran to line someone's pocket. I'd do it for £50 if I was at the event anyway, but I'm not travelling especially to spend a day sat on a hill for 'expenses'.

I think it's taking the piss to expect someone to spend 10 hours marshalling without proper compensation. Imagine how grim it would have been set up there for a whole day if the weather wasn't as good as it was.

For an event as successful as Ard Rock, I would expect the expenses as well as a free entry to a future event.

I think it’s very different for larger events where they’re being ran to line someone’s pocket. I’d do it for £50 if I was at the event anyway, but I’m not travelling especially to spend a day sat on a hill for ‘expenses’.

It's always claimed people are lining their pockets at events, how much did the event make?

I can only imagine the land cost, medical and infrastructure costs for the Ard rock. I'm sure they make some money but they put a lot of work in.

Private land/farmers charge a lot compare to the FC.

Possibly the best payment I've had for a weekends marshalling was the 1st DH Ffest at Antur Stiniog... 5 Uplift passes, with lunch provided.

Also have to give Si Paton his due... when he was running the BDS (before the UCI started farting about and stopped awarding points to qualify for the world cup), in addition to money and food, there was also prize draws with some decent stuff to be won, including holidays and carbon wheelsets if I'm not mistaken.  On top of that, he got J-tech to service my shock for free, which was great.

I was also lucky enough to be start marshall for the Legends race, when the creme of the UK downhill scene scattered Jason McRoy's ashes.

At the same event, Rob Warner had a bet on with his old rival, Berty (Lee Bertram) that the slower rider of the pair of them would have the other’s winning time tattooed onto their skin...

Isn't this really about entry fees and races being run as profit-making rather than subsistence//to keep a sport going?

8 hours marshalling at L'Eroica a few years back in return for a 6 month old issue of Rouleur, an excellent bottle of Thornbridge beer and possibly the worst stale cheese sandwich in history.

Volunteering to marshall the Tour of Britain next month, hoping for at least a decent sandwich.

I do it because if people like me didn't volunteer, events wouldn't happen.

It’s always claimed people are lining their pockets at events, how much did the event make?

I very much doubt that will be disclosed, but 5,000 or whatever entry and camping fees along with headline sponsors, merchendise and all those on site retailers, I can pretty confidently assume there's enough in the bank to look after their volunteers.

I do it because if people like me didn’t volunteer, events wouldn’t happen.

That's a very fair point; have to remember that British Cycling commissaires are voluntary... though I've distanced myself from British Cycling since HSBC got involved, BC do nonetheless do great things for the sport, albeit generally more biased towards the leg waxers and blood-swappers.

Payment? For marshaling? Eh?

The way I see it (as a club race organiser and volunteer), if the event is being run fully by volunteers then no expenses are needed. Generally those who race will volunteer at least once a season and it's the same fore everyone though there always those who never give back.

However if a race is organised by a professional organisation from which people take wages, the marshals should be paid minimum wage at least. Bit cheeky to expect me to give up my time for nothing whilst someone else cashes in on their business.

Glastonbury volunteers – a free ticket/guaranteed entry in exchange for work

the time i did that the work constituted 7-8 hours/day, wednesday to sunday, with two free meals every day ( pretty standard canteen stuff but it filled a hole ). staff camping and showers with very little queue, if any, were good too.

i marshalled a national level enduro and got a lezyne (sp?) light that was worth about 45 quid. hadn't expected anything TBH.

I can pretty confidently assume there’s enough in the bank to look after their volunteers.

OK then, quick look shows about 2000max entries there but I guess the rest of your maths is spot on 😉

Remuneration for the events I do (DH & Enduro) does seem to be pitiful. I have done the odd one in the past to get entries for others when I was going anyway but didn't want to race. It's not something I would do any more.

My other half runs mass participation cycling events, and their marshals get multiple times any event I have attended. She does also look on in shock at the standard of marshalling at events, and the potential exposure of all involved if something were to go wrong. Given even the nationals are generally scratching around for people on the morning of the event, having a bank of staff to rely on just doesn't happen, when you are only running 5 events a year Vs 80 with tens of thousands of participants, it ends up being a case of beggars can't be choosers.

Hell, even the box shifters on the day get well over £100.

OK then, quick look shows about 2000max entries there but I guess the rest of your maths is spot on

Where are you getting that number from? There's two full enduros, two intro enduros and the sport over the weekend.

According to the Pinkbike report there were over 4,000 competitors and 15,000 visitors

It was a quick scan of the results on the results website but I might have missed a category there, don't worry you lost 20% from guess one 😉

I know plenty of events organisers and none are really rolling in it, most get by but it takes a lot to build something really good from it - the ones doing the best I know of do heaps of runs, tri's, did loads of contract stuff for the commonwealth games, world champs and EWS - it's a living at that stage and a decent business.

If people were happy to sign up for £50/day to help get an event running then it's fine, to bitch about it after is a little crap.

If you have a breakdown of the costs then go on tell us how much people are making from it, I've had some interesting chats with organisers about costs and overheads....

In many events anyone pro doesn't really pay an entry (despite getting the prizes), you end up having to pay some of them to attend, you give out a load of free stuff to lots of people, sponsors entries take up a chunk more of your paying slots and then you have to front nearly everything.

My "5,000 or whatever" roughly translates to 5,000 +/- 25% 😉

I have no issue with people making a living out of putting on events. I think the organisers have created something special so good on them for continuing to grow the events. But this thread is about marshals, and in my opinion, if an event is put on to make money, the marshals should be paid as staff or looked after in other ways (freebies, entries etc).

the ard rocks do very well out of it I reckon. As an organiser I have a good view on costs and they must make a lot of money from all those folks.

 But this thread is about marshals, and in my opinion, if an event is put on to make money, the marshals should be paid as staff or looked after in other ways (freebies, entries etc).

What would the take home from £78.30 be (10hrs at Min Wage)? As the £50 is tax free as expenses etc. it's a simple payment that means you are not doing Tax, NI and Pension for 1 weekend for everyone, run that one through an agency to handle all that expense and it's going to cost a lot more and leave the person not much (if any) better off

What would the take home from £78.30 be (10hrs at Min Wage)? As the £50 is tax free as expenses etc. it’s a simple payment that means you are not doing Tax, NI and Pension for 1 weekend for everyone, run that one through an agency to handle all that expense and it’s going to cost a lot more and leave the person not much (if any) better off

Devils advocate, but most jobs if your expected to work away from the office usually provide wages + expenses. So really it should be minimum wage + 2 decent meals, camping etc.

looked after in other ways (freebies, entries etc).

I would say 60-70% of our marshals are non riders, free entry or mtb stuff is not great payment for them.

but marshal that volunteer regularly have life time free entry if they ever want to race or give it a go as far as I'm concerned.

Probably the more pertinent question is surrounding the risk of paying someone who probably isn't trained (or competent) & something goes horribly wrong. Think Borderline/Llangollen.

I've done some races over the years where the marshals have been literally clueless to whats going on. In many respects, it's bloody scary if you stop and think about it - your life could literally be in the hands of someone who doesn't even know how to use a radio, let alone manage to wave a flag & blow a whistle.

What kind of briefing/training do marshals get? Is it just a case of turn up, get handed a grid ref and told how to run the station in terms of dibbing in etc? I'm just curious and wondering if the recent court case started to filter through to events like this. Regardless of the not guilty verdicts, it must have shifted the focus more than a little when it comes to H&S and marshal training.

I’ve done some races over the years where the marshals have been literally clueless to whats going on.

Yep, seen some comical and scary situations at moto x where every rider must provide a marshal, so girlfriends with no interest end up stood holding a flag whilst playing on their phone ignoring what is going on.

Devils advocate, but most jobs if your expected to work away from the office usually provide wages + expenses. So really it should be minimum wage + 2 decent meals, camping etc.

Lol racking up the bill there... The office in this place would be the side of the hill.

Nowadays we have to differentiate between club events and commercial ones? I regard commercial ones as a money making operation and feel that they make the most of peoples love of the sport in a cynical way. Very clever of them and I wish I could do it but at the same time somewhat sordid.

Club events are different. I would expect all club members not competing to play a part in some way and those that do ride would make it up in another event. A club is about being part of a sharing community.

I object to payments being made. Its all good will from both sides. Maybe excessive costs can be covered and the labour is compensated in other ways.

Payment at club events is just one more symptom of our greedy society but nowadays people don't want to contribute, they just want to turn up and play and will pay for that.

I’m the head marshal for the Southern Enduro series. All our marshals receive a briefing, course map and are told what to expect by email a few days before the event. They also have to attend a marshals briefing on the morning of the event where the are briefed on the race format, rules of the event, what to do with a rider down, spectator control etc. They are also given a marshal sheet with th course map, event schedule, phone numbers for key event personnel should we not respond to the radios, and the address/ postcode for the race village should we need to summon an ambulance. We ensure marshals are at their points before opening stages and they are instructed on how to use the radios. The safety of the riders and spectators is not taken lightly

Its not a tricky job to pick up. It’s great fun. You get the atmosphere of the race without having to knacker yourself racing a bike. Most of our marshals are regulars and riders are often telling us how much the marshals added to their enjoyment of the day. If your curious about racing, it’s a great way to see how it all works and you’ll probably get a 200 rider case study on one particular part of the course. The events will not happen without them.

Please excuse my god awful spelling and grammar. I’m blaming my phone!

If they were being paid not only would they have to be paid minimum wage at least plus NI plus holiday pay and so on but also as employees they accrue rights that also cost the employer.  I would guess total cost per employee for that 12 hour day would be well into 3 figures and the paperwork horrendous - and the marshal would have to make a tax declaration / have their dole cut and so on.
Marshalling cost would then rise significantly and will be a significant part of the costs.  folk seem to complain about high entry fees anyway.  To make marshals professional would increase this a lot further adn also would mean negligence cases would have a higher chance of being won as a paid staff member would be held to a higherr standard than a volunteer.

I've done some for free even when they wanted to pay me, some I wouldn't do even for a big wedge of cash, and anything that runs like a business I treat like a business by and large.

(also, I'm not ashamed or anything but I always say now "I know what I'm doing, so don't put me doing anything rubbish like directing traffic", I don't get out of bed for anything less than marshalling a really dodgy corner any more! Most of my race work is digging these days)

ok I guess some comments on here are in my and Rich's direction

history lesson

first couple of Ardrocks pooled a lot of marshals from Singletraction  the trail builders for Stainburn .and Ardrock donated £50 for each marshal we supplied to the coffers of Singletraction

marshals also got. free camping , free evening meal , free beer  and a tshirt .

I have tshirts from all but the first and now last ardrock .

then it got bigger and bigger .

3rd 4th 5th ardrock and the Ardmoors 2 now. we got £50 expenses  per day packed lunch , water bottle and tshirt

This Ardrock  it was £50 per day  free camping  packed lunch  and water bottle OR £5 for a Tshirt

Now dont get me wrong I love marshalling at the Ard rock/moors but it was the having to pay a fiver for a T that hacked us off .

a little goodie bag of stuff for all marshals would not cost much ( water bottle , Tshirt , some odds and sods from other sponsers ) not a bank breaker is it

very petty stingyness and imho they have devalued their Marshals this year

for this year I took off a day from work (fri) my choice.

2 hour drive there on thursday night   10 hours on stage 2 friday  and 10 hours on stage 3 sat and sunday then we strippped the stage of flags and tape  and then I went to stage 7 where my mate was marshalling to help him strip his part of the stage down so he could get away a bit earlier    we got to the event village at 19.00  We both arrived home at 21.00 sunday night

now tell me that is not worth a goodie bag of stuff