[Closed] One do-it-all hardtail?

Orange P7.

Don't get a Chameleon unless you only do short rides, it's a play bike, a very good one, but a play bike nonetheless. Don't see the point of an Argon at all - yes, it's built like a tank but if i wanted a tank, i'd get... a tank! Chameleon/Stiffee are far more preferable and far less ugly for that kind of frame (imho, of course).

But do it all? I'd go for a P7. Some would choose a Soul (never liked mine but horses for courses etc), others, yes, a 19. Anti-chic option: 456.

Carbon 456 - swap outs let you switch between geared or SS.

ooh yeah, P7 and 456 – interesting. Must admit though that the idea of a carbon long-travel hardtail doesn't sit easily with me (though I can't say why)

Don't get a Chameleon unless you only do short rides, it's a play bike, a very good one, but a play bike nonetheless.

Sorry, but that's complete bollocks.

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There's mine. This year I will be racing XC and DH (HT category obviously) on it. I use it for playing on DH trails, XC training, normal XC rides, epic alpine XC rides with 3+ hours of climbing, DHing in the Alps, everything. I think the longest ride I've done on it would be about 60 or so miles, and probably spent 7 or 8 hours riding it at a time too.

It's so ridiculously good.

Fair enough, it's your back after all.

[Fortunateson09 stock answer][img] [/img][/Fortunateson09 stock answer]

Don't apologize, nothing like a healthy difference of opinion. Bit disappointed by the lack of colours on this year's Chameleons. Quite fancied an orange one!

Fair enough, it's your back after all.

Never had any problems at all. Its my most comfortable bike actually.

I have a Whyte 19 Trail Steel that I bought for this purpose... very much a jack of all trades master of none type of bike.

Compromises all over the place but still a great place to spend a few hours.

What is your budget? Always the Ti 456.

I quite like the look of that Kinesis frame in the forsale section. Steel, 2.1kg and swap outs. Don't see many around though.

The guy is after a "do it all bike", not an xc bike. I wouldnt fancy DH or dirt jumps on an xc trail bike like a Whyte or a P7 or a Carbon On One.

Get a BFe, or Chameleon or an Evil. something strong with short chainstays.

I'm a self-confessed Nicolai fanboy but I'd never buy an Argon of any varierty, but not least the Argon FR (I know you don't specify the FR, but that's the one I test rode).

They are just too damn uncomfortable beyond about 90 minutes riding. They are bullet stiff but while they fire you forward like a high velocity round, they also impact your body like one.

It's a free country and everyone is free to choose whatever bike they want, but I wouldn't go with an aluminium hard tail because they do tend to be harsh. As a younger man I rode one, but I am no longer in my 20s!

If you've got that kind of budget then personally I'd be looking at either titanium (something like the Ragley Ti, which coincidentally I just bought or One one Ti456, both of which can be used with forks from 100mm to 150mm) or a custom steel hardtail (which I investigated also).

If you're going custom steel, then either Curtis or 18Bike in the Peak District, can sort you out.

The Curtis could be built to your needs for about £850 and would be around the 5lbs mark in terms of weight (Reynolds 853 used for the front and 725 for the rear IIRC), but it would tailored, not bespoke so you could control general geometry, but not the finer detail.

18Bikes can build you a completely bespoke bike; everything from the geometry, tubes, style of the stays, cable routing, everything. But it would cost at least £1000 and maybe as much as £1300 if you started adding things like tapered head tubes, custom drop outs (which I think can allow you to run SS and belt drive) etc.

Guess I'll have whatever I can get for a s/h Kona Kula scandium 29er, Sirius pipedream 853 and new Commencal Super 4, so ti is a possibility. Come to think of it upgrading to a Ti Pipedream may be an option…

P7s are heavy.
But they are strong.

Something ti with a lightweight 150mm fork or so and a couple of wheel-sets - one light and burly for trails and gnarl with fat tyres, one light and light with fast tyres for racing and big all-day epics. Wagley or Ti 456 mebbe? Tougg enough to take a ragging, light enough to go fast.

Something ti with a lightweight 150mm fork

Yes, a dead expensive Ti frame with a light fork is a superb idea for thrashing down a downhill course and taking over dirt jumps.

I currently ride a 456 and get on with it a mate has even used his doing DH when his DH bike is broken. If I was going to get one HT bike to do it all i'll go for the Ragley Ti.
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The guy is after a "do it all bike", not an xc bike. I wouldnt fancy DH or dirt jumps on an xc trail bike like a Whyte or a P7 or a Carbon On One.

Wait, so do it all includes DH and dirt jumps, but not XC?

I always thought of do it ALL as doing it ALL. XC race to DH race. Otherwise its not doing it ALL, is it?

A Dialled Alpine would be a pretty versatile choice. Super strong and will take a 150mm fork - works very well with 95-140 Pikes though. A good bit cheaper than a sov too! A chain tensioner would sort the SS option, which isn't really much of a disadvantage. If you want versatility I wouldn't limit yourself to sliding dropouts/EBBs etc.

Yes, a dead expensive Ti frame with a light fork is a superb idea for thrashing down a downhill course and taking over dirt jumps.

I'll butt out, I was thinking a Revelation or a Sektor or something. I hadn't realised the OP was going to be thrashing the bike on downhill courses. I'll just shut up now, sorry.

Need to know what your idea of "do it all" is really, as some folks are saying some of these choices aren't too clever for the hardest of use but then most people who say they want a do-it-all bike don't actually do-it-all. My do-it-all Mmmbop has never been in a halfpipe or used for trials or a 100km race 😉

"ir_bandito - Member

P7s are heavy.
But they are strong."

Not so convinced of that, they had to change the design so much to get it to pass the CEN tests and it's still only rated for 140mm forks, makes it less strong in some quantifiable ways than a 456 or a BFe or similiar.

I don't think DH or jumps are my bag really so that probably simplifies things: something I could thrash on local trails, epic rides and the occasional xc race or enduro. Needs to cope with proper mountains too. 100-140 fork range would cover my needs

I don't have any back issues with my Chameleon either.

It has 140 up front and can handle more than I dare.

+1 for the Chameleon, I have 2008 pre EBB built up with 140mm Pikes & I love it, I ride everything from regular Dark Peak stuff 3-4 hrs and have even done 5hrs + in the Howgills, just try one for size first as the medium is quite small (great for throwing round a trail centre though).

cotic soul with 120mm forks.

Not quite available yet, should be about early May - but this is a do it all frame:
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stanton bikes slackline

davidtaylforth - do you smoke crack ALL the time or just when you feel the need to post angrily and narrow-mindedly on forums about peoples bike recommendations..?

just a question like...

Dialled Prince Albert. Just does stuff, rides nice and is plenty durable without being bonkers heavy (or even just heavy, heavy).

They've been used for 4X in small sizes and umpteen people wander around on them all day. Lighter and a bit more roomy than an Alpine, if that's important to you.

TBH you just sound like you want a "bike". Using it for "everything" (as relates to what you might want to do) is probably more a mental attitude thing than a bike's inherent versatility as a result of its design. IMO 😎

Handful: "No back probs with my Chameleon."

<sets up chiropractor business and waits>

😉

davidtaylforth - do you smoke crack ALL the time or just when you feel the need to post angrily and narrow-mindedly on forums about peoples bike recommendations..?

It is a bike forum. I always got the impression that being angry and narrow minded was what you were meant to do. I aint smoked any crack tho.

I'm liking lumberjack's suggestion... Never heard of them before either! Looks proper nice though.

If more XC biased riding is to be done though, would personally edge in the direction of either a Cotic Soul (if you're building a custom bike), or a Genesis Altitude (if you want something off the peg). Either are great do it all bikes with the emphasis slightly more on the XC and trail riding side of things.

davidtaylforth - fair comment

liking that Stanton Slackline - lots

Orange Crush.... ?

Brodie Holeshot? Nice Ti frame and slack head angle too.

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I'm hoping that the correct answer is - Blue Pig.

Whats the best pre built Chameleon deal out there at the mo,

Would I get one for about £1000 anywhere?

Yes, define 'all'? For me living down in t'South and riding a lot of tight woodland singletrack I'd want something lighter and steeper than if I was riding more open but steeper rockier trails up in t'North. And that's without changing the rider's ability or inclination.

Everytime I see that Brodie Holeshot I require new pants 😳

I can't believe the Bfe hasn't been mentioned - it looks to be one of the most versatile frames out there at the moment.

This simply isn't a wide enough choice yet. Can I add:

Charge Duster
Kenesis Decade Virsa (swap outs)

.. in to the mix?

[url=[IMG] [/IMG]]null.. And before jokes start its about as heavy as the gate it lies against ,) was a great ride though..

Chameleon's are often noted for being a bit harsh at the rear, as are Cove Stiffees but then both get ace reviews. Bear in mind thought that these reviews tend to be with more hardcore/play bike builds than XC ones.

Something for tough techy trails that you can throw around a bit with slacker head angle:

Orange Crush
Orange Subzero
Cove Stiffee
Chameleon

Something more XC for longer days out might be best with steel:

Cotic Soul
Cove Handjob
Orange P7
Genisis Altitude...

Personally I wouldn't call this XC list a do it all bike, but who cares about categories like that.

Rocky Mountain Blizzard.... it has rack mounts!! 8)

Yeah sorry, by do-it-all I should have said do-all-i-can-manage.
Sterling suggestions, every one (well, maybe except the Blizzard).
Am erring towards a Chameleon, but that could all change…

...And before jokes start its about as heavy as the gate it lies against ,) was a great ride though..

Reminds me of my 30 seconds of passion in the field with IR_Baboon's Mum.

😳

Genesis Alpitude?

853, strong enough for fun and games in the woods but light enough for a decent epic in t'hills... (James did both while designing it)

I think I'd go for a Soul. Which is weird as I've just sold mine but I decided to go for something that was less of an allrounder and got an Mmmbop 😉 But as a balanced, capable, allround frame for pretty much everything bar serious jumping and DH I can't fault it.

Ti456 or Ragley Ti.

I wish my Ti456 had ISCG mounts, other than that, it's brilliant 🙂

depends on your definition of 'all'

my 'all' involves dirt jumps, bit of downhill, some riding singletrack, some trail centers etc. So a NS Bikes Surge was perfect. If your 'all' is more trails, less jumps, I expect a 456 or a ragley is closer to home

Looking at the Chumba Racing's new 2011 HX1, looks quite nice, EBB for single speed etc.
Looks like progressive-bikes.co.uk will be stocking soon.
Hope that helps.

I had a Pace 303, was better(ish) with a carbon post, but I had to admit defeat in the end, much as I loved its ride it was harsh as hell after a few hours. Each to their own though.
What about the Sanderson Blitz ?

I've got a 456C and a Transition TransAM. Both are brilliant, 456C a bit longer, probably climbs quicker, TransAM feels better on descents. But both are built very differently, so it's difficult to really pin the differences down to the frame rather than other stuff. Both I'd highly recommend.

But, most people would say the same about a lot of frames, I don't think there are many bad options out there. Just buy whatever you think looks best, that's what I did. Sorted.

I've had a chameleon for 4 years. no problems with my back, though it did start to hurt calf/ankle muscles on very long very rocky alpine descents. never had a problem in the UK despite some 8 hour long rides!

Not sure how a stiff frame would hurt your back unless you're sat down the whole time?? Sounds like a bike forum myth to me. If your backs hurting its more likely a wrong size frame.

Pretty much any hardtail will be fine though, so long as you don't go too lightweight/burly and pick something in the middle.

messiah - Member
Everytime I see that Brodie Holeshot I require new pants

I too need new pants 😳

I made the same decision to cut down to one mountain bike about a year ago. My definition of 'do it all' was like yours - everything I've got the skill and balls for, which is largely xc and trailcentres. I ended up with a Cotic Soda (tart's Soul) and have been delighted with it. Great fun in the Lakes and Wales (if not as fast downwards as say a Ragley Ti), and very quick cross country. I tried (and owned) all sorts before coming to a Cotic, including a chameleon and an mmmbop, and would certainly recommend you give one a try.

comfort will be the most important factor for sure & that is obviously very personal! test ride & test ride some more!

Whyte 19 carbon HT = Big Grins for hours on end!

Brodie Ti Holeshot, frames due soon ish £1099 for the frame.

[url= http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/5202199390_dbea55e054.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/5202199390_dbea55e054.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/93388219@N00/5202199390/ ]Brodie Ti Holeshot[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/93388219@N00/ ]srbwilson[/url], on Flickr

Ragley all the way for me, you have choice of steel alloy or Ti or 29er
Tyey are the do it all weapons of choice, or maybe look at the Cotics they have diffrent frames for diffrent fork lengths

Im of the same opinion as someone above.

My version of "do it all" is day rides, downhill, pumptrack, jumps, trail.

I get by just fine on my NS surge which would ruin a lot of people. It weighs 32lbs and i can sprint up climbs some people will walk. Long gradual climbs kill me though. But on fun stuff, it makes that grin, that bit wider.

If you're on lighter side of things, cotic soul, P7, duster etc.

If you're on the more aggressive side of things, blue pig, prince albert, BFe or even NS surge.

Ragley all the way for me, you have choice of steel alloy or Ti or 29er
Tyey are the do it all weapons of choice,

The TD-1 is a great 29er, but very specific - wouldn't call it a 'do-it-all weapon of choice' as it's rigid only?

+1 for the Ti456... 😛

orange crush. good spec and good kit. not the lightest but a good do it all bike and a touch over £1k new so a bargain. fox forks and mavic rims. race face finishing kit. all a nice little package imo. personally liked the 2009 orange colour and its back for 2011.

I still reckon the carbon 456 can take what this lot can.

But what about a Blue Pig X?

How about a Pace 325

http://www.pacecycles.com/?page_id=171

I have a pace 305, lots of fun, does xc and all mountain well...

I'll 2nd a Cove Stiffee. Did a 5 hour Peaks ride on Saturday with no adverse effects.

I was looking at a sanderson soloist the other day and thinking that with an alfine 11, uppy/downy post, 4-5" fork of some sort would would make a reasonable "all rounder" or maybe a love/hate... I'm getting more into the idea of a robust EBB frame with hub gears and a sensible build...

I suppose it all comes down to what "all rounder" means to you, everyone will have different bias of course.

whoops double post...

Looking at the Chumba Racing's new 2011 HX1, looks quite nice, EBB for single speed etc.
Looks like progressive-bikes.co.uk will be stocking soon.

New HX1 frames to land next week. £399 with EBB

[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5100/5512911700_81715cbcd8.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5100/5512911700_81715cbcd8.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/93388219@N00/5512911700/ ]hx1[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/93388219@N00/ ]srbwilson[/url], on Flickr

In my experience the best all rounder has to be the Cotic Soul. I run my 2008 model with a 130mm revelation. It has enough give to be comfortable for all day rides but is still nice and responsive and I was keeping up with a mate riding a Prophet on some very rocky/ rooty downhills last night.
I also have a 456ti with a Pike and big tyres which is an awesome hardcore hardtail but much harsher on the small stuff than the Soul.
I had a P7 which was very comfy but heavy and unresponsive and happier with 115mm fork.
The Cove HJ would also be a good choice and works well with a 120mm fork.
Pace hardtails are very harsh and have steep head angles, I didn't get on with my RC303 at all and paint quality was shocking.
I have a 456 SS which is great fun but for me it's too heavy and harsh for long rides.
If you can find one of 200, the limited edition Orange Clockwork is a sweet bike and I run a 125mm Magura Phaon. Paint chips easily though.

Chameleons are absolutely bloody brilliant! I got rid of mine as I did find it left me feeling, after a full days riding, like i imagine some of the 'actresses' must feel in some of the more adventurous adult films. I got a full suss instead

I've gone back to a Pace RC305 though. Which is much the same, but with a slightly less brutal feel to it

Fatbike? Surly Pugsley etc

456 Summer Season with Pikes. Did the Puffer on it and get down anything on it. Rarely ride anything else nowadays.

456SS with adjustable forks, Surly Pugsley or Marin B17.
I'd love to try a SC Chameleon, Soul or P. Albert but haven't.
How tall are you?

ragleyrider - Member
Ragley all the way for me

I've had a fair few what I'd class as 'do-it-all' hardtails and by do-it-all I mean good enough to ride all day (5 or 6 hours) but fun when you want to shove the seat down a little and just go for a thrash.

Chameleon - owned two and for the seat down/thrashing bit, they're awesome. But there was no getting away from it, on long rides (with a Thomson post) they got pretty uncomfortable. Maybe a carbon post would have made things a bit better but carbon posts don't tend to take too kindly to much up/down action for the fun stuff.

Soul - good at the areas which let the Chameleon down, not as good as the areas in which the Chameleon excelled. A very good bike but certainly one that liked all day rides better than techno stuff and more downhill orientated stuff.

Suppose a BFe might be a good halfway house? Not sure, never ridden one.

However for my type of riding (mostly short rides filled with as much fun stuff as possible with the odd full day around Calderdale/Peaks/trail centres thrown in) I'd be looking at something like an Evil Sov (if I could be bothered to compare the angles and make sure it was long enough/slack enough), 456Ti or a Ragley Ti.

Oh, FWIW, my 'second' bike is a 456SS and its flippin brilliant. Just built up with a right mess of spares which has gradually evolved into a better build as I realised how much potential there is for it. Had a spin on a Ragley Ti which I'm guessing is evolution 2 steps on from the SS (with the Blue Pig sat inbetween) and loved that to bits but in terms of pure fun + value, the SS must beat anything?! Only downside is its weight and lack of steel 'feel'. But for a bike that gets treated like sh*t, you just can't complain.

Whyte 19.

For the win.