[Closed] One bike, one battery, one hundred miles

You normally do all your rides with one cell - you'll be fine!

I have an ebike and have ridden the SDW a few times (not on the ebike) furthest I have managed on one charge was about 40 miles,have you changed anything on the bike to try and eek a bit of extra range from the bike, I would think you will have to ride a good bit of the route with the motor switched off to do it on one charge

Are you trying to demonstrate how far you can get on battery power alone, or simply trying to ride the SDW on an e-bike?

Either way I don't understand why you'd start pushing the bike once the battery runs out. Surely in the former case you'd have to admit defeat and in the latter you'd pedal.

Makes no sense to me either.
40 flat(ish) miles in Eco is about my estimate too.

I was a ebike user when I was ill.

don't get the mentality of using one when you are fit and able.

Best advice I can offer is stick to the non alchoholic shandy from now on

Mentality doesn't come into it Ton
they're just fun to ride.
you don't seem a very fun guy

I was a ebike user when I was ill.

don’t get the mentality of using one when you are fit and able.

You can do the same ride as normal but faster - which means you can do more laps (if you are at a trail centre for example). The rider puts the same amount of effort in as on a normal bike but you just go faster.

40 flat(ish) miles in Eco is about my estimate too.

So, with hills, it’ll maybe get as far as Cocking, then? And then a push from there to Eastbourne in the remaining 10 or so hours?

Ton wins the Internet for me today....

Hypermiling an ebike.... The fact some have ridden the SDW in a day's under their own steam kinda makes this challenge a bit meh (from a non-biker perspective at least).

I'd be impressed if it was the west highland way he was doing.... But South downs way. Might as well be the a92 between Arbroath and Dundee.

Hell I'd be impressed if he got an egenius up the whw in 2 days never mind 12 hours.

from Winchester to Eastbourne

That might just leave you the last 20 miles and 3 decent climbs with no power. I'd be tempted to go the other way. The prevailing wind isn't always as prevailing as many people seem to think and the last 20 to Winchester is easier than the last 20 to Eastbourne. Pick a day with a forecast for no wind or an easterly.

Good luck Rob 👍

I think your challenge should stop when the battery runs out, that'd set the benchmark for further endurance testing of ebike batteries, but I'm guessing the bit after a discharged battery is when YOUR challenge commences.

PS: if you could take the time to say "hi" & introduce yourself to my mate Andy @ the HT550 it'd go a long way. He'll be the nervous oddball virgin on a Specialized Enduro 👍👍👍

Sounds fun. How can you make the battery last longer, is there a continuous range of adjustment that lets you just add a few watts? Or will you be having to turn it off regularly.

You can do the same ride as normal but faster – which means you can do more laps (if you are at a trail centre for example). The rider puts the same amount of effort in as on a normal bike but you just go faster.

I never understand this argument. If I have two hours free to ride, I do the same amount of riding on an ebike or a normal bike, ie two hours.

Anyway, is the OP doing this today?

Anyway, is the OP doing this today?

Did your battery run out halfway through his first sentence? 😉

I think the idea is that on an e-bike you spend more time doing the fun stuff and less time doing the character building stuff.

I never understand this argument. If I have two hours free to ride, I do the same amount of riding on an ebike or a normal bike, ie two hours.

Yes but you can do more distance therefore more fun - like i said at a trail centre you might get three laps instead of two in your two hour time window.

Yes but you can do more distance therefore more fun – like i said at a trail centre you might get three laps instead of two in your two hour time window.

Yes, but you had two hours of fun, and I had two hours of fun. Who had the most fun?

Are you trying to say climbing is as much fun as descending?

Mentality doesn’t come into it Ton
they’re just fun to ride.
you don’t seem a very fun guy

fun is a very subjective word mate.
my type of fun is not your type of fun.
a bit like bum sex, some enjoy it, others don't............. ;o)

Are you trying to say climbing is as much fun as descending?

Yes.

Who had the most fun?

The one that was actually riding rather than arguing on the internet...

Yes

Fair enough, but do you accept that many don't feel the same way?

I never understand this argument. If I have two hours free to ride, I do the same amount of riding on an ebike or a normal bike, ie two hours.

It's not an argument and it's really not that difficult to understand.

On my "normal" bike I'll spend roughly 40mins climbing per 5mins descending
On my Eeb I'll spend roughly 20minutes climbing for that same 5 mins descending. and the climbing isn't as rubbish as it's almost all done at at least double the speed.
Plus I don't need a rest at the top of a long climb to be able to enjoy the descent "fresh"

I can only assume you either like climbing as much as decending or don't live/ride anywhere particualrly hilly

4000ft of climbing is about all one battery will manage on a full charge so they're limited to that more than distance.

Yes.

you really are missing out then.

The Ebike can climb twice as much in your two hour window as well.
not only that. it's actually more engaging climbing at double the speed.

Enjoy Rob!
Can we have a classic photo please? The bibs outside jersey one from the double double thread was legendary.

a bit like bum sex, some enjoy it, others don’t…………. ;o)

Hmm... so this is why you never seem happy?

every day's a Skool day

😉

I'm still trying to catch up with the OP's challenge.

He's riding an eBike that might get 40-50 miles of assistance pedalling with all the hills etc.
Then he is to ride the rest of the way with no assistance.

Or is it a case of the bike many actually do 100 miles on a charge?

[IMG] [/IMG]

The faster you ride an e bike ie the more effort YOU put in the quicker the battery gets used up ( assuming on minimum setting all the time) - as the thing torque senses so the harder you push the pedals the harder the motor works.

so the only way to hypermile an ebike is to do it very very slowly.

Seems like an utterly pointless challenge. We know Rob Colliver (The Rob Colliver 😃) can easily do the SDW in that time on a proper bike, however heavy. So it bloody obvious that he could do it on a heavy bike with a motor and battery in it.

Can't see what there is to prove here.

Sounds like a really interesting challenge. To me, the suggestion is that Rob thinks that correctly managed the battery could potentially make the 100 miles.

so the only way to hypermile an ebike is to do it very very slowly.

I've never ridden an e-bike, so excuse me if I'm confused about how they work. Surely you can turn the motor off and just ride it like a regular bike to save the battery if you need to. If that's the case, you would then plan to ride the flatter sections without any assist and save the battery for the steepest sections, especially near the end when you are tired. Burning through the battery on flat stuff early on and then having to struggle on climbs at the end doesn't make sense to me.

Like a few others I'm confused about the nature of the challenge. Surely

Time to see how far an ebike can really get you on one charge

means stopping when the battery is depleted? In that case you'd want the lightest possible bike and rider, carrying nothing, freewheeling down any hills and going up them as slowly as possible without the motor using much power. As is the nature of these things it would bare little resemblance to normal usage. So, fun maybe (of a sort) but otherwise irrelevant to the majority.

Hope the weather is kind, temperatures are high and you have a stonking tailwind!

so the only way to hypermile an ebike is to do it very very slowly

Or do whatever you want till the battery runs out and then just use muscle power.

Going back to your point then, all he needs to do is choose whichever ebike has the lowest non zero power setting.
Great

Oh TJ you're talking absolute rubbish about a motor you've never ridden.
Yes. The faster you go (especially up hill) the faster you'll use the battery. Doh... no shit? but the E8000 on the bike in question will use least battery if ridden in Eco at a cadence of around 50rpm. Higher cadence (but lower torque) will use more battery than higher pedal torque but lower cadence. There is science and figures behind the theory (not mine) but rather than blindly believe someone else's sums I actually tested this fairly thoroughly.

Weight (rider/kit & bike), Terrain, tyres and conditions will also make a big difference to range.

@Mattyoutabouty Unless he's incredibly light there's no way the OP will manage 60miles with the bike assisting all the way using a 500wh battery. I don't "get" the challenge either.

Only way to really find out how long a battery charge lasts, is to ride it.

SDW is an ideal day out on one. Doubt he’ll arrive a Cocking even with any charge left, but he hasn’t said he won’t recharge it when it runs out has he..

So, he could be doing it with two/three charges.

Anyway, post up how it goes.. and where the battery runs out.

he hasn’t said he won’t recharge it when it runs out has he

Er… yes, he has.

The battery is built-in so swapping it or recharging it is not really going to happen so when it runs out, I’ll be pushing.

I'm confused too. Surely you* could manage it in 12 hours without even switching the motor on?

*By 'you' I mean Rob. Not the average rider. Definitely definitely not me.

I get the challenge,10000ft of climb over 100 miles within 12 hours means achieving an average speed around or above 8.5 miles per hour on for the most part a 50Lb ish bike?

Good luck Rob. Save some of that battery for the last third .

you really are missing out then.
The Ebike can climb twice as much in your two hour window as well.

Sorry, I don't want to derail the thread, but there you go again. Equating distance with more fun. Fun can only be measured in terms of time. So I have fun climbing for 10 minutes on a 1 mile climb. If youre on an ebike and climb 2 miles in the same time, it can never mean you had "more" fun than me, we both had 10 minutes of fun.

Fun can't really be measured at all einstein

Do you accept that many people consider descending more fun than climbing?

If the answer is yes then that's why people consider e-bikes more fun.

If the answer is no... I don't know. Perhaps I simply delude myself into thinking going downhill is more fun.

Geex - doh - of course cadence comes into it as power = torque times revs! and the capacity of the battery is power x time.

What I said still applies tho - as the motor puts in power proportional to the power you put in then the slower you go the slower the battery gets used up. Yes spinning rather than mashing may make a small differnce ( as the motor is in a more efficient zone) but the key thing is how much power you are putting in.

What you want is a bigger battery- challenge completed

no TJ. You actually don't understand what you're talking about.
some of what you said is correct. but not the parts you think are.
Stop making false assumptions
and stop talking rubbish.

. I don’t “get” the challenge either.

Blummin heck. Never mind all the noise on this thread. I'm just gobsmacked that I've found a thread on ebikes where I agree with geex

Awesumz

Fun can’t really be measured at all einstein

Then you cannot quantify it to claim ebikes are more fun, Einstein!

Geex - I clearly understand a lot more about this than you do. Never mind.

Maybe both of us are not explaining it well but the science does not lie. the more power you put in, the more power the motor puts in, the quicker the battery is used up.

Yes by using the most efficient revs then you will increase the amount of time the motor runs on one charge

Do you accept that many people consider descending more fun than climbing?
If the answer is yes then that’s why people consider e-bikes more fun.

But I have fun on my bike when Im climbing, descending and riding on the flat. If ebike riders only have fun on the downhills then I guess Im winning.

The question was do you accept other people have more fun descending than climbing?

If I were you I'd be starting to get worried and paranoid now. 'What if we all have the same amount of fun climbing but everyone else has even more fun going downhill? What if I have some sort of mental limit on the amount of fun I can have which is what is driving a wedge between me and the rest of the human race? What if this is what has been giving me a feeling of unease and disconnection all my life? What if my fun limit is steadily being reduced? Is this how people end up playing golf...'

I think you're all missing the obvious way to make an ebike battery last 100 miles.

Rob is just going to keep the speed above 15.5mph for the entire way.

I'm not sure why anyone is trying to define fun, given that surely we can all agree that sitting on a motorcycle until it runs out of fuel and then having to get off and push it halfway along the South Downs Way is absolutely not it.

No TJ. You're completely wrong. You haven't even used the motor you're arguing about so please just stop it. Because of this I don't reeeeally want to get drawn into a pointless argument with you
But... y'know...

power - torque x cadence

If I...
A) output a steady 100w with a cadence of 50rpm for an hour
or
B) Output 100w with a cadence of 100rpm for an hour.

Which of the two will drain the battery more?

From my understanding that electric motors generally are more efficient the faster they spin I would say B.

Edit: Actually, I meant A. You want the motor to spin faster for greater efficiency.

i wasn't asking you

let Jezza answer

That's a thought actually. If the motor pulls less power at lower speeds and none above the cutoff, is the trick to push hard to stay above 15.5 as much as possible and then ride very slowly everywhere else?

Given that's pretty much how I've done the SDW in the past (albeit not at 15mph), that doesn't seem a million miles off?

edit: for what it's worth, I think this is fairly pointless but also quite interesting. I'm all for it! Not normally given to being a huge fan of ebikes myself, but still curious.

I’m not sure why anyone is trying to define fun, given that surely we can all agree that sitting on a motorcycle until it runs out of fuel and then having to get off and push it halfway along the South Downs Way is absolutely not it.

Not really trying to define fun. Just trying to get trailwagger to accept that there are some perverts out there who prefer descending to climbing.

Here you go, a battery in a back pack.

Solv’ed the prob’ed

Can't he just sellotape a solar panel on his back and charge his battery as he travels?

Surely some brainy IT millenial can design an app that just sorts it all ?

Not really trying to define fun. Just trying to get trailwagger to accept that there are some perverts out there who prefer descending to climbing.

I know this. Its why uplifts are so popular. What I am disputing is the claim that always gets made about ebikes, that you have more fun as you can go further in the same amount of time. Its absolute nonsense.

Geex - you re missing something very important from your equations. ( the speed at which the bike is travelling)Never mind. You need to understand the differnces between Amps, Watts,Amp hours and and Watt hours

100W is 100W. The only difference the speed makes is the efficiency of the electric motor.

If you had a Turbo Levo you'd just tell the app your weight, how far you're riding and how much you're climbing and it'll manage the battery usage so it doesn't run out of power.

Or on the flat or downhill you leave it in unpowered mode and on the climbs you put it in eco. Should be fine.

If it runs out of power then you just pedal it like a normal bike with some moderately heavy panniers.

And climbing on e-bikes is lots of fun because they're faster so become more technically challenging. Yes, they're over more quickly but that's ok because you can do more of them.

is the trick to push hard to stay above 15.5 as much as possible and then ride very slowly everywhere else?

But I still don't get it.

If the aim is "to get an ebike from Winchester to Eastbourne on one charge inside 12 hours" then surely it doesn't matter when the motor is and isn't being used. I don't see how it proves either how good the motor is (if the rider's having to work hard to avoid using it) or how good the rider is (if they're being assisted by a motor). If it's an attempt to show how far a bike can go on battery power alone then what's the point in pushing it afterwards, and if it's an attempt to show that someone can ride the SDW in under 12 hours then it's been done without a motor.

I HAZ A BAMBOOZLE

And climbing on e-bikes is lots of fun because they’re faster so become more technically challenging. Yes, they’re over more quickly but that’s ok because you can do more of them.

Exactly the sort of nonsense I`m talking about.

Is arguing about the definition of fun more fun if you type quicker?

"Exactly the sort of nonsense I`m talking about."

I don't understand why this is nonsense. Could you explain?

TBH I'm of the opinion that if Rob thinks it is worth doing then it is. Its not like he doesn't know the route. I believe he's done it many times. Sometimes many times on the same ride.
My suspicion is he could do it carrying the bloody thing.

And climbing on e-bikes is lots of fun because they’re faster so become more technically challenging. Yes, they’re over more quickly but that’s ok because you can do more of them.

I don’t understand why this is nonsense. Could you explain?

Why would riding faster with a motor make it more technically challenging than trying to clear it under your own power?
You then say its over more quickly (referring to time) and then say it ok because you can do more of them.
This is my point, going further in the same amount of time doesn't mean you have more fun. If we both climbed for twenty minutes then we experienced twenty minutes of fun each. You do not have more fun by going further.

You should fit a dynamo hub and charge up the battery from that.

trailwagger, do you accept that some people have more fun going down compared to going up? Do you accept that ebikes increases your ratio of time spent descending to time spent climbing?

If the answer to these questions is yes I really don't understand the point you're trying to make.

trailwagger, do you accept that some people have more fun going down compared to going up? Do you accept that ebikes increases your ratio of time spent descending to time spent climbing?

ok, last post as its not really what the thread is about.

Take two riders who hate climbing and love descending. If one is ebiked and the other not, then yes the ebiker will have more fun in the given time.

Lots of bike riders have fun climbing as well as descending. In this case the ebiker doesn't have more fun just because he can go further.

In this case the ebiker doesn’t have more fun just because he can go further.

But they may have more fun because climbing faster is more fun / engaging 🙂

I wish I could afford an ebike.....then I might start to find climbing fun 🙁

Hi all - sorry to put you through the 'I hate ebikes' thing all over again - this is just a bit of fun cooked up over a pint and meant to be just another way of getting out and riding.
I had to laugh over a few of the replies especially eddiebaby's - will I have to do it on a unicycle next?
I have had the bike since November (and have to give it back soon) so I've been practicing on getting the best out of the battery and I will be riding the flat sections (I know some of the northern scribes think the entire route is flat) under my own steam to make the distance.

Its a totally factory bike except the saddle - the OE was good for about 6 hours for my ass so I changed it to a Prologo Tri, I changed the tyres to Rocket Ron's and have left the grips, dropper and massive brakes as it came to me.

Maybe I could have been clearer on the goal - I really don't want to hike a bike it at all, but some of the steep bits (Chanctonbury, through the woods near the A27 etc) are hike a bike normally for me and I wasn't planning to drain the battery on these little bits, so will be pushing these.

The weather is settled, keep an eye on the SPOT tracker and I hope my pace doesn't fall of a cliff around Cocking.....