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I bought the Hopes back in 2007, they have bene faultless - serviced once by Hope in that time.
Long story short: I've sworn to all who would listen they are the bees knees. Modulation, reliability, function and form. Plenty alps duties etc. Then, due to threads on here, I thought I'd go back to my old, warranty replaced Guide RSs and found them shockingly better.
A few rides to test, using fresh, properly bedded pads and discs on both sets of brakes (from Trickstuff), has categorically, overwhelmingly, shown that for this fat bastard, riding down really fast, loooong steep chutes, or slow, extremely steep tech, with a need to haul on the anchors or just control your speed (Into the Gnar, Yoann Barelli (tm) ), using the Guides requires much much less hand power and thus makes things a hell of a lot more enjoyable.
However, I don't trust guides in the long term. They've had more problems than just the sticky lever. XTs, on the other bike that my son now rides, have all the usual pain in the arse XT issues and I hate the Shimano initial 'WHAM' of braking, but with the need to still grab fistfuls of lever to really slow down fast.
TL DR: I want Hopes. Would Tech 3 V4s be significantly better (i.e. less hand cramps!) than my ancient Tech M4s?
sorry for question, I know there has been a lot of discussion recently, some of which I followed. I was just so shocked at how much easier things were with my Guides.
try putting hope pads in your hopes?
I have a theory that hopes use much more adherent friction than abrasive friction compared to others ( all disc brakes use a mix of both) and thus are more sensitive to pad type and bedding in. Just my theory from reading around on this stuff and listening to folks experiences.
Hi TJ - they are no better with Hope pads (although I only use Hope Resin pads).
13 year old brakes In 1 service feeling pretty crap shocker ?
Maybe worth giving them a service ?
Just going through all my minis and cleaning them / changing the seals to refresh them for another good few years service.
The bore tool costs 7.50 and the seals are 5 quid. If you need pistons they are like 6 quid each .
Cheap as chips to make them good as new again.
But my tech e4s are night and day on my old M4.....
Could be worse....avids only seem to last 2-3 years before feeling like crap
Are you already on 203mm discs?
I have V4 with 203mm on my Levo and E4 with 183mm on my hardtail. The former feel quite a bit more powerful despite the bigger wheels and greater weight travelling at greater speeds they’re having to stop.
thanks trail-rat
They were serviced only 2 yrs ago, after the Guides were warrantied and I thought I'd better have a backup set. Been used heavily since then right enough, but after the service there really wasn't any remarkable change - until I tried vs the Guides back-back I thought they were bob-on, just my hands that were useless.
I think it actually makes a big difference to safety in riding, as I don't need the death grip on the bars to get braking force to the wheels, makes things a whole lot more controllable.
So your e4s are a lot better than the M4s? in what way?
Your old Tech M4's will have the older lever, the ones with the plastic rubbing point between the lever and the master cylinder piston. The difference between those levers and the Tech 3's is night and day. The new ones generate more power. around 15% more according to Hope, and the Evo upgrade to a new design of interface between the lever and master cylinder piston that included new leverage ratios and a bearing made the modulation even better.
I had the old Tech M4's on one bike, Tech Evo M4's on another and now have Tech 3 E4's. Every time there was a noticeable improvement in power, modulation and feel. My mate went from Tech Evo M4's to Tech 3 V4's and he said they were nearly double the power! Hope brakes are never the outright most powerful but they're always in the ballpark and very rarely have issues. Depends what you value more: maximum power or reliability .
I have the Tech 3 levers on both my sets. Before that I had Race Evo levers on M4 and they felt identical to the Tech 3 E4 apart from the reduced adjustment at the levers. But I remember getting them over the old Tech levers because they were meant to be more powerful with better modulation.
Tech e4 lever feels more like my old xt servo wave - but without the grabbing caliper issue.
Progressive feel at the lever and progressive feel at the caliper.
Grab a big handful and it grabs hard.
The old m4s were only as good at modulation as your hands.
We also have 4 sets of minis in the house. 2 with original mini levers and 2 with the tech lever.
The tech lever breaks feel far better
This thread has made me rekindle the lust for new brakes. I've got M4 front X2 rear on my bigger bike and faired ok in the alps on fresh bleed and pads but as a larger chap could definitely do with more power. Not sure which levers - tech something rather than race. But latest E4s would mean I can cascade the older one's onto the the boy's bike to replace the crappy Avids. I was considering cheapo Clarks for that but keeping to Hope / DOT bleeding on all bikes does appeal.
Anyone know of cheap place for new Hope E4s?
I know you said you want Hopes but are you sure? I had V4s and found them quite disappointing. Great modulation, yes, but lacking in power and, for someone like me who runs their levers close to the bar with minimal free throw, a pain to get set up well.
On Hayes Dominion now after briefly flirting with TRP Quadiems. The Hayes are incredible.
Thanks folks, lots to think about. I do run 203, back and front.
Good to hear that the Tech 3 V4s look like they perform a lot better. I know there are other brakes out there, but Hopes (and I think this is true of all their kit) I just love as I can fix it, repair it, keep them working - if you look after their stuff you get a hell of a long life out of it.
The Hayes Dominion do look amazing, if for no other reason than the crosshair alignment thing - genius! Thing is, I've got a stack of Hope pads for my current M4s, still fit on V4s!
pedlad, Rush Cycles always seem to have good deals on Hope brakes: https://www.rushcycles.co.uk/m63b0s529p0/Disc-Brakes/Disc-Brakes-Hope-Tech3-E4-Black
blimey, they do have some good deals - I know I'm not pedlad, but thanks!
I had hopes after I had shimanos and then guides I did a "bling" build of everything I wanted and chose e4s and they were honestly quite disappointing. They do have "a lot of feel" as people say but to me that meant "you have to pull them really hard to slow down".
I know you said you want Hopes but are you sure? I had V4s and found them quite disappointing.
chose e4s and they were honestly quite disappointing
I’m going to add a third voice of doubt. I love my Hope brakes for their reliability, consistency and serviceability but I don’t think you are going to get that chucking an anchor out feel that other four pot options give. It was a ride using some old four pot SRAM brakes that brought this home to me and my E4s are now going on the hardtail with a Shigura (Shimano levers and Magura callipers) mix taking their place on my favourite bike.
I’m going to add a third voice of doubt. I love my Hope brakes for their reliability, consistency and serviceability but I don’t think you are going to get that chucking an anchor out feel that other four pot options give.
Yet that's exactly the feel/performance I get from my V4's with 203/180 discs.
Had to make stop on tarmac the other day from 50kph to a trackstand to let a car past - zero issues, zero lack of power. Yes, if you only pull a little they don't have much power, but pull a bit more and they send all my insides to the front of my body.
It's all down to preference, and some people prefer the instant power of shimano brakes, or sram codes - some prefer the more gradual power of hope. To say that Hope V4's lack power though, is just wrong. It may not be the type of power you prefer but they definitely do have power.
I've recently moved back to hopes (tech 3/v4) from sram code rsc's and and I don't understand people who say they lack power. Once set up and bedded in correctly (using sintered pads) they are easily as powerful as the codes.
I've found though that setup is key to getting the best out of them. Follow the hope videos and your can't go wrong.
Admittedly they make a bit more noise when wet but with the power, feel and ease of bleeding/servicing I'm sticking with the hopes.