[Closed] Old man rant - bottom brackets

RRP is £90 so you paid £50 to get it fitted which probably requires removing old old, cleaning up and refacing the shell, then fitting new one. Maybe an hours labour? Seems a little steep but not crazy.

Oh they did a much better job than me, and the existing BB was rubbish. Just that it came out at a tenth of what the bike cost new. Suspect I'm out of touch with pricing, and have degenerated into grumpy old man territory.

Who takes an hour to remove a BB and put a new one in?!

Probably a minimum charge of an hour.

Last BB I bought from a shop was also Hope. I'd removed the cranks and asked them to remove BB and fit new one which they supplied, £90 all in.

Was this for a press fit or threaded BB.

If press fit, doesn't seem too drastic for the work done. If threaded then I'd have just bought the £10 tool that fits and done it myself.

Threaded. I was expecting around £90 to £100. It would not have taken an hour - ten minutes at most. My tool did not quite fit, hence why I took it in.

Ah well, done now, move on. Hopefully the bike will now move out of the regret purchase and on to being one I like - the drive side of the existing BB was seized, hence most likely why it was a bit of a pig to ride since new.

And really I am lucky to have a decent LBS in town. The nearest other reasonable one is ten miles away.

£50 for fitting a threaded bb especially when you bought it for them seems a bit hefty. And that's presuming they charge full rrp for the bb.

Although if you had a car garage fit a £90 part you’d probably pay £140; everyone seems to value trained bike mechanics a lot less

There's a reason why I pay €16.50 for a Shimano one, rather than €90+ for a Hope one. They might not last quite as long, but Hope would need to last at least a decade, and in this day and age of bin and replace, the only BB that's going to last more than a decade is a ye olde worlde loose ball BB, where the only consumable is grease every few years.

Wonder what the total tab would have been for the OP, if a Shimano or similar had been fitted?  My experience of the LBS round here would have been 2x the price of the component, so maybe 30 all in.

The RRP on the press fit one is £105 and the threaded is £90. maybe they got them mixed up? Still, I'd only want to pay 1/2hr labour for the job.

£114 I could understand, could you have been accidently overcharged? Might be worth giving them a call. The ceramic ones were more expensive..... I've gone back to shimano

If threaded then sounds like you've been overcharged.

No accident - did question it. Normally do these things myself, with cheap Shimano units that I repack. The LBS does do a good job, fair play, and the work lasts. Always has been a price premium for their work, just that today it seemed a tad OTT for a basic job. Live and learn.

Ripped off IMO. Threaded tool is 15 quid, threaded BB is about 20 for a decent one. Takes 15 minutes to replace. You've been done there.

All threaded BB’s are £20? Even if you ask for a hope one?
Cool.

threaded BB is about 20 for a decent one

Not for a Hope one, which is what the OP specified.

So you didn't ask how much the bb is or how much they would charge for fitting?

Here lies the problem. Lesson learned.

10 - 15 mins? Aye, plus the time taken to book the work in and deal with it afterwards. No harm in having a minimum 1 hr charge for these jobs.

Quite probably. Most likely unit pricing for a bike brought in whole, not stripped. Standard of the work is always good though.

Is it a chain or independent?

There's a concept store not too far from me. I once went in and it was very fancy, some very nice expensive stuff and 6 staff sat there doing nothing. They had a minimum charge.

So you didn’t ask how much the bb is or how much they would charge for fitting?

It's funny that, we are often embarrassed to ask the priceh  which is insane.  It's taken me a long time to get over that but now I always do and get very insistant if I see the question getting avoided.  I wonder if it is a British thing or if all nationalities are like that

OK, looking at the replies the price was a bit toppy but not totally unreasonable for Hope. The quality of the work is always good - I'd have to drive miles to find an equal. That alone is worth the extra I paid, as I'd have to drive over to drop off, then collect a week later - call it 40 miles and 3 hours, plus parking. It's probably better just to take a bike in as is rather than strip down.

I'll put this one to bed then.

As a few folk have said above, I've often found it worthwhile to ask for a breakdown of the costs - even when I've found the price reasonable. I can't remember a time when a shop has been shirty about this, and the one time I'd been overcharged it was an honest mistake that was rectified.

andytherocketeer

...and in this day and age of bin and replace, the only BB that’s going to last more than a decade is a ye olde worlde loose ball BB, where the only consumable is grease every few years...

I've found much the same.

Does anyone one make a sealed one with a grease nipple these days?

Unless the old bb was jammed in and they had an absolute battle to get it out. That could eat up time quite easily?

It would take me longer to get the bike to the shop and pick it up again than fitting it so a complete non-starter but then I have never paid a bike shop to do anything in the 47 years I have been into bikes. Bikes are so simple I just cannot get my head around paying someone to do stuff.

Probably a bit steep on labour, but entirely possible that they had to fight it out, clean out a kilo of caked on mud from inside, and run a tap through the threads to clear them (BB taps ain't cheap, and won't pay for themselves).

Bikes aren't complicated, I do it myself, but I appreciate some folk get very stressed with even getting a decorator in, like my BIL - he is absoutely useless. He can do golf as sticks don't need fixing.

If you've paid full retail for a threaded hope BB we'd have fitted it for free. 15 min job tops

Well to be honest buying a Hope Bb you've had your pants pulled down before even having the labour charged, they're a rip off when a 20 quid BB does the same thing

Who takes an hour to remove a BB and put a new one in?!

The old Powertorque BB took longer than an hour destroyed a Park puller and eventually required cutting off. Never again, Ultratorque all the way from now on.

£76.50 for hope bb at my local, free 48 hrs delivery, tenner for a tool, a few quid more for next day delivery. Could have saved you £50.
Some peoples LBS loyalty costs a fortune.
I've saved myself and my mates hundreds based on your LBS prices. Theres a reason they didn't give you a ballpark figure and if they struggled or had to face the shell they'd tell you, just to justify the price. I guess they saw you coming unfortunately. Online shopping wins everytime for me.

**** sakes, you all wonder why local shops are going out of business.

They have to pay staff and wages to do these 10 minute jobs, if it's so easy to do, do it your self. As a newly self employed person i always struggle with this type of thing. If i charged somebody for what might take me 15 mins but might take somebody without the knowhow an hour or 2, I'd be permanently skint. I'd say there is an minimum charge of an hour and it gets done. Dont like it do it your selfand take the risk.

Sorry to hear that OP. Let me make it worse. New XT M8000 cranks and BB £90. Litterally 15mn to install if you're shit like me. All it needs to last 3+ years of abuse is to back off the hand tightening of the pre load by a quarter of a turn.

90 quid for a bottom bracket. I think that's your main problem.

RicB

Subscriber

Although if you had a car garage fit a £90 part you’d probably pay £140; everyone seems to value trained bike mechanics a lot less

The huge difference in the running costs of a commercial garage compared to a bike workshop makes this a rather naive statement to say the least.

JP

The huge difference in the running costs of a commercial garage compared to a bike workshop makes this a rather naive statement

Be interested if that is necessarily the case. All the car mechanics around here are shabby industrial units, tucked away of busy streets, carry little if any stock and no money spent on customer facing kit. Local bike shops, big rates, big rents, carting bikes and stock and regularly getting stuff robbed. All whilst paying mechanic a wage, local small shop is at least owner and three employees, guy I used for spannering cars, was himself and one other guy.

Anyone else confused by stof41 post, is he for or against LBS's charging £50 to fit a bb, should a shop charge for time taken or a hypothetical "how long would it take an idiot to do this" time.
I can remove bb, thread chase and face then install new in well under an hour, I'd love to hear the shop justify £50, given they probably just removed old one, gave the shell a wipe, re greased and fit new.
If their service prices were up on the wall would anybody say umm very reasonable.
Agree with a minimum charge of an hour for big jobs but surely not fifty quid, but what if a kid just needs a new gear cable fitted.

muddyground

“Hope please”

So you walked into a bike shop 2 days after the general election and asked for Hope.

You were under charged mate!

As soon as i opened the thread i knew it would go this way..

Sure, it was a bit steep, but not insane by any stretch of the imagination.

I guess it depends on how much your time costs. In theory swapping a BB is an easy job, but we've all be lured into those sorts of repairs before finding all sorts of horrors lurking in wait. I guess part of what you're paying for is the knowledge that it will be done right without spending hours of your weekend gurning in the cold on your patio or unheated garage trying to wrestle recalcitrant parts into working.

So, if the labour charge is a fixed one hour rate of £40/50, what happens when someone takes their bike in for new canti / V brake pads??? A £60/70* bill!!! That would be insane...

* new pads @ £10 per set and no cables required

I'm sorry but if you are surprised by a bill then it's your own fault for not asking what the price will be, and for not being aware of the minimum price.
Tread cautiously next time

Checked our workshop costs for bb fitting, £25. That's cranks off, bb out, chase threads and face if necessary, refit bb and done.

face if necessary

Once in a blue moon.

So a £20 fine for being a numpty and not having a decent BB tool at home? Harsh, but I can live with it. I probably only visit a bike shop for work every 18 months or so in any case. To be fair, when I do I'm glad to have a decent, if slightly expensive, local one to support.

You really need to try treks bb90 bottom bracket if you really want some unreliability/ cost, absolute nightmare, I just gave up riding it in any muddy or wet conditions

Could it be fit BB £25, chase/face BB £25?

I charge a higher fee for some jobs than hourly rate, eg facing a BB shell, reaming a head tube etc.

It still seems steep to me if you bought the BB from them at retail, but they may have a price list and just stick to it.

Even a 2 minute job should be subject to a minimum service charge. You need to talk to the customer, book the bike in, assess the job, order parts, do the job, write up the job/invoice the customer, contact the customer, take payment, talk to the customer.

Its a free market, a business can charge what they want, customers can use (or not) whatever business they want.

Communication with the customer is key, identify the customers needs, provide an accurate estimate and discuss possible extra costs that may occur (eg facing).

Ripped off IMO. Threaded tool is 15 quid, threaded BB is about 20 for a decent one. Takes 15 minutes to replace. You’ve been done there.

**** sakes, you all wonder why local shops are going out of business.

Some people have no concept of actually how much it costs to run a business, and heaven forbid how very dare they make a profit from their customers.

See the many "ripped off by trades" threads for details.

Cost of bb plus fitting?
surely fitting cost needs to take into account so many things
cost of tool
cost of mechanics quals
cost of rent
cost of lighting
National Insurance
pension contributions?
public liability insurance
rent or mortgage
and so on and so forth

Another shop that needs to work on its customer communication skills, from the looks of it.

No doubt it will go out of business soon because 'people don't understand the costs'.

probably only visit a bike shop for work every 18 months or so in any case. To be fair, when I do I’m glad to have a decent, if slightly expensive, local one to support.

I wouldn’t say once every 18 months was particularly great support, tbh. My LBS has just closed (it’s won awards for how good it was, there was a thread about it closing). Loads of folk gutted it was closing, loads of those rarely used it, but always expected ‘mates rates’ cos they were always on the shop rides...

At Bike Revive in Sheffield We'd charge £20 for the BB to be fitted. Currently working on a square taper that is requiring a lot of work but quoted £20 for removal and fitting of new one so thats what the customer is being charged.
Conversely I work from a workshop at home so overheads are minimal.

Anyone heard of VAT?
The government take £8.33 of that £50 for doing sweet fa.

and corporation tax if Ltd co at 20%

all of a sudden £50 is not actually much to charge in the grand scheme of things. Since starting a business it has been a real eye opener when working with small/local companies. Margins are tiny. Little bike shops/repair services won't compete o price but we can compete on quality of work and attention to detail.

surely fitting cost needs to take into account so many things

Yes, but it isn't the only thing that generates revenue to cover everything you list: sales do, too—even though we all know margins are super tight in the post-Amazon/Wiggle world. I think it's possible to understand that turning a profit as a bike shop is tremendously difficult, whilst also being of the opinion, as a consumer, that £50 seems quite high for a threaded BB swap without even having to deal with the cranks. Given that you'd think that most punters would be buying £20 Shimano BBs, not £90 Hopes, it'd be understandable if many of them went elsewhere to look for a lower fitting charge.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting anyone's getting fleeced in the grand scheme of things. Just that if this is what labour charges genuinely have to be like then I'm very glad that I've bought all the tools to do whatever I need to 😉

Yes, but it isn’t the only thing that generates revenue to cover everything you list: sales do, too.

Retail in bricks and mortar shops is as good as dead, unless you are a Santa Cruz/Yeti et al dealer. My LBS would get folk coming in with arms full of parts, asking them to be fitted (having not bothered to ask of the shop could get close to price matching) then grumbling at the cost of fitting, complaining that because of the cost of fitting, he’s not saved much buying online.

Ask for a written quote for any repair before handing your item over?

Here are the keys to my car - go ahead and replace the engine.

3 days later:

What do you mean £2500?

I think what you paid is at the upper end of reasonable. It’s usually around £40 an hour for labour isn’t it? If your place is a boutique shop in an out of the way area then they can charge what people are willing to pay I guess?

Picked up my bike today after a BB replacement. They told me up front that it would be an hour’s labour and I’d still be charged that even if I bought the BB off them.

Thought about a Hope but the old SLX BB lasted 6 years. I doubt a Hope will last 24 years or feel 4 times better. Also, £39 for removing and fitting new BB, new inner and outer for gears, and straightening a bent mech hanger.

BB cost me £23. Part of that work included the 5-10 minutes they took to have a look at the BB that was seized. I’d happily pay that again. In fact, I’m happy to keep giving them
business if it means they’ll stay open. My last LBS went under at the beginning of this year. If there aren’t any within a 30 minute drive of me then I might as well give up having an MTB altogether. There just isn’t enough time to do the time intensive tasks anymore. I need a bike for the school run and to keep myself sane. The LBS helps with that so I happily pay the money.

If you think bike shops are expensive then for your sake I pray to the Gods that you never have to deal with a solicitor!

Well the Hope has lasted all of two months before seizing. Hate, hate, hate.

Something far wrong there. Hope BBs aren't so fundamentally flawed that they should fail in a couple of months. Did the shop refit the cranks too?

I'm with Colin here - even the crap that are Raceface and SRAM GXP last longer than two months. I've Hope BBs on three bikes and lifetime is in years, in one case six years. That's with dealing with pretty yuck conditions and fairly frequent dunkings.

Maintenance is a biannual removal and subsequent cleaning of threads on BB cups and BB shell. Never done the supposedly essential removal of the bearing cover and regrease.

They seem to lack grease and have seized. I would take them apart, but seeing as I did not fit them, back to the bike shop Monday. Cycling can be such a pain sometimes, I don't know why I bother.

How do you clean your bike?

Sounds like too much pre load or there's some crap in there that needs cleaning out

Did the shop refit the cranks too?

SRAM GX. There is no preload.

Have had Hope on pretty much all of my bikes. My 1995 Clockwork has been on the same BB for 20 years now. All good, as are my other bikes. Even the fatbike is fine, and that sees some hideous conditions.

This one just feels dry. I do not use a power wash.

Normally do all my own building and servicing, and my bikes last. Took this one in to the LBS, paid a price, and now it has died a miserable death within 2 months. There's a lesson in there somewhere.....

Have hope on both my bikes, usual maintenance of removing and cleaning after every few rides and they've lasted a long time, they are sealed bearings so if they've seized something serious has happened, they're 2RS bearings, so have rubber seals both sides, might be worth prying off the seals and checking the state of the inner bearing.

I'm sure a decent bike shop will look after you.

Hopes customer service is top class too.

Oh yeah, annoying thing about the hope BB is the weird sizing, hope yet again coming up with their own standards, i have the cranks on both bikes and they're a pain as well, the bearings is about the only thing i don't mumble too much with hope about.

Square taper.

Spot on.

I realy like hope stuff, but when it comes to standard bbs, a £15 shimano jobbie is surely better value.

Hambini videos are very interesting, if a bit sweary, on the topic of BBs. He has a whole vid devoted to sram gx.

usual maintenance of removing and cleaning after every few rides a

Why would you do that? Mine last for years without needing any "maintenance" .

We've had a very wet winter - riding a bike without guards means water gets down the seat tube and stays there - riding a bike with immersed bearings will kill them in no time.

Can't really see why you would have a 'old man rant' over it. I dont see that you have had your pants pulled down really, other than voluntarily opting to pick up big bubba's soap in the shower by choosing a Hope BB.  If it was a straight forward trouble free fitting then you have probably been overcharged but not massively, but maybe it was difficult for some reason or another and the charge is about right.