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http://road.cc/content/news/76756-revealed-shimano-di2-hydraulic-disc-brakes-are-coming
Still no want or need for them, but cool none the less.
hmmm, lever looks remarkably like an older Dura Ace model and there appears to be something (like a converter) that the hoses go into hanging from the bars, though it's hidden by the far STI.
EDIT - although cable exit is under the bar tape
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that's not a convertor, that's the Di2 control box
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i am MASSIVELY interested in this.
and the 105 version that will surely follow . . .
I am not, well not yet. Glad they're coming at last.
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These things (Shimano CX75) work, designed to run from this year's 105 and Ultegra
The hoods on the shifters look so tall and ugly though ..
I know its a cx bike in picture. But I am just not liking the look of disks on a road bike.
Pretty sure lots of the fatties moving over from their mtbs will like them though.
About time too.
I like discs.
I like road bikes.
And I really, really love the fact that discs on road bikes wind up the humourless, stick in the mud, head in the sand types that give road riding a bad name.
Excellent news.
Be nice to see a solution without electronic shifting though.
Oh, 'Darkside'!
There, that's better.
Much harder to do with mechanical shifters - there's a lot more in the body. See the massive cylinder on top of the shifter on SRAM's efforts.
Yeah, but you could make a removable reservoir that fits in the bars or stem.
Or even the headtube.
Or we could go back to bar end or downtube shifters 😀
Still no want or need for them
Speak for yourself matey 😉 I already run discs on my commuter and they are better than rim brakes in every practical way, by a mile. One day in the not-too-distant-future you'll look back and wonder why we settled for rubbish rim brakes for so long.
As a total roadie who occasionally takes to the trails I probably should be in the rim brake camp.However, I have been using Avid BB7s on my commuter/winter/cross Boardman and it is the way forward. No rims wearing out, consistent braking in all conditions etc etc. They just need to get the weight down and they will be sorted.
Not sure that Hydraulics are absolutely needed though, and I see there is a new mechanical calliper in the offing that moves both pads.
Regards
Not sure where this idea of rim brakes being rubbish comes from. Probably never used a decent set of rim brakes. They are far from rubbish, even 105 spec are very good.
I use disks on my winter bike and rim brake on the race bike. The only real advantage I can see from disks is wet weather operation, and use on carbon rims (which is a biggie), maybe using hydraulic fluid rather than cables, but that's a small one.
I'm not convinced about the looks of a disk road bike, but it's early days right now.
Still not totally convinced yet. Might make sense on CX bikes, but I certainly can't see this any time soon on mountain stages of TdF etc.
On an Alpe d'Huez descent, the Kinetic energy that needs to be converted into another form (heat, basically) is huge compared to someone hooning down a red run in your favourite trail centre.
edit: and if they're released to the retail market, there'll be huge disclaimers all over the packet saying for CX (etc.) use only.
Is this the end of the radial wheel?
They are far from rubbish, even 105 spec are very good.
I disagree, my 105 are adequate at best, and the rear keeps seizing. Dura Ace are superb though.
Not too fussed either way on road discs, don't get all the hand wringing about people who don't want them. Lighter clincher rims could be good, but over all system weight will no doubt go up for a while.
I disagree, my 105 are adequate at best, and the rear keeps seizing
If they keep on seizing, you need to look at why, cable routing, worn spring or another reason, have been using 5700/105 for the last 2 years, and they are just as good as 6700/Ultegra.
Also have a bike running CX75's since early Jan, have put on getting on 1000km on them, and they have worked great, although setting them up is harder than the R505's they replaced, as they need several different hex wrenches as the L/R sides take different sizes.
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Bit old news isn't it these blokes have been doing it for a while....
the hope one is a converter though, not a full hydraulic system.
it uses a cable from the lever to the box.
there are a couple of other companies doing similar to the hope, and im sure it works well, but its using a lot of handlebar 'real estate', i have a cateye on my bars and i need to run a light as well.
added to that, i use the stem to pick my bike up too . . .
jimc101 - Member
I disagree, my 105 are adequate at best, and the rear keeps seizing
If they keep on seizing, you need to look at why, cable routing, worn spring or another reason, have been using 5700/105 for the last 2 years, and they are just as good as 6700/Ultegra.
He likes to disagree, it's in his nature.
No doubt in 5 years, there will be loads of options and probably more bikes will have disk than not.
Will be interesting if they can resolve the heat issues regarding long descents. Most disks seem to be 140mm. Shimano and there ice tech should come into here own. Just another opportunity for the designers to show there worth.
I use disks on my winter bike and rim brake on the race bike. The only real advantage I can see from disks is wet weather operation, and use on carbon rims (which is a biggie), maybe using hydraulic fluid rather than cables, but that's a small one.
How about not wearing away a key structural component of your bike every time you brake? Disk brakes on road bikes is the future.
On an Alpe d'Huez descent, the Kinetic energy that needs to be converted into another form (heat, basically) is huge compared to someone hooning down a red run in your favourite trail centre.
Will be interesting if they can resolve the heat issues regarding long descents. Most disks seem to be 140mm. Shimano and there ice tech should come into here own. Just another opportunity for the designers to show there worth.
I'm no roadie but this was my first thought when I saw the diddy wee discs on road bikes in proto pics. I've come down Mam Ratagan on my MTB, a drop of about 1100ft and had to stop part way to let my brakes cool. The rotors (180/160) were very wobbly and had turned blue. Lots of smoke!
It's not as high as Applecross Bealach but is double track road so much faster.
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If they keep on seizing, you need to look at why, cable routing, worn spring or another reason, have been using 5700/105 for the last 2 years, and they are just as good as 6700/Ultegra.
Thanks for the patronising tone, It's because I rarely clean my winter bike, but I never cleaned the Dura Ace i used before i had a specific winter bike and they're still perfect, and vastly more powerful, with better feel.
The 105s were an improvement on the Tiagras admittedly, cartridge pads are good, and they seized solid in less than 6 months.
The BikeRumor article on hydro discs was interesting. He was using lightweight rotors and the brake promptly failed when he went down a steep hill. Plenty of people (here and elsewhere) saying he should learn to use his brakes blah blah blah, but the reality is that your average punter will expect them to be vastly superior, and to stay that way. Not had too many spontaneous failures of rim brakes.
If the answer is to use ICEtech rotors or whatever then so be it, but how will you stop people replacing them with the same lightweight rotors they use on their MTBs?
If the answer is to use ICEtech rotors or whatever then so be it, but how will you stop people replacing them with the same lightweight rotors they use on their MTBs?
Darwinism? Just the same way as people don't drill mtb frames, cranks, etc. for racing the same way as was briefly popular in the mid 90's.
Darwinian evolution will take care of people like that.
Will be interesting if they can resolve the heat issues regarding long descents. Most disks seem to be 140mm. Shimano and there ice tech should come into here own. Just another opportunity for the designers to show there worth.
you mean the discs that have been known to melt on long downhills?
Darwinism? Just the same way as people don't drill mtb frames, cranks, etc. for racing the same way as was briefly popular in the mid 90's.
You miss the point entirely - there's a behavioural trait there. Manufacturers are fitting diddy 140mm rotors, people will fit Ashima, KCNC etc rotors that are available in shops everywhere, and perfectly adequate on MTBs. It couldn't be more different from drilling holes.
It's not really enough for the manufacturers to say 'ah yes, I know these after market parts exist, but you should have known that there's a very real possibility you'll die if you use them'. Particularly when there's a perception (on this thread no less) that discs will offer performance advantages. Again, I've never had a spontaneous failure of my rim brakes.
Lots of people on road bikes drag their brakes on descents - surely the worst thing possible for hydraulic systems?
For experienced riders who brake only into corners it'll be fine but for the majority of riders these new systems will be problemmatic - I envisage the first law suits within 3 months of these systems being released to the lawyers and dentists.
That's what I mean. It's how they've always ridden, and will expect to be able to continue to ride that way with their new 'better' hydraulic systems. It's all very well folk like Brant and frank sneering at them because they're perfect, but I reckon there's the potential for some really serious accidents.
Surely there are already lot of folk running (cable?) disks on loaded touring bikes doing long descents? (and I do mean apart from me) I've not heard of a spate of accidents involving these folk.
Cables don't boil though
But the rotors would be overheating and warping - allegedly 🙄
Surely there are already lot of folk running (cable?) disks on loaded touring bikes doing long descents? (and I do mean apart from me) I've not heard of a spate of accidents involving these folk.
Cables don't overheat / boil
See above
And that's the problem. Folk drag brakes. Release, pull. Nothing. Bang. BikeRumor journo broke a few ribs. The Etape could be carnage!
When I complained about how bad rim brakes were compared to discs somebody on here gave me an earful and told me road bike brakes weren't to stop you but to lose a bit of speed!Mind you my ultegras didn't even do that.
Discs on road bikes can't come to soon for me
Maybe the disc brakes should come with a warning
"For competent cyclists only"
Me I'd buy a road bike with discs if only to be able to ride it with slight buckles in the rims and the stronger lighter rims that will be available.
I've had a disc'd road bike for over 3 years now. Its ok, but I much prefer my rim braked bikes for most riding. I use it to tow a bobyak mostly.
Shamal Ultra's with USB bearings are plenty light, fast and reliable for the kind of road riding I do.
Maybe the disc brakes should come with a warning
"For competent cyclists only"
🙄
Yes, probably. But that'll make them wildly inferior to the idiot proof rim brakes people seem keen to 'upgrade'.
Whilst I can understand the brake boiling issue with hydraulic systems, surely a cable disk offers most of the advantages without this one (potentially fatal) downside.
Why aren't manufacturers pushing this option?
Having said that I've never used a cable disk brake, so perhaps someone is about to come along and tell me how useless/heavy/unreliable they are.
Weight and the need to constantly adjust the static pad I imagine.
I'm still unsure of the neutral service and wheel swapping implications of disc brakes in the pro peleton. Totally unsure how they'll sort that successfully.
I guess they'll be close enough to work, or team mechanics will get good at undoing caliper bolts on the fly 😯
I still think there's one point being missed here
When I complained about how bad rim brakes were compared to discs somebody on here gave me an earful and told me road bike brakes weren't to stop you but to lose a bit of speed!Mind you my ultegras didn't even do that.
I've never felt that they weren't powerful enough, to the extent I 'upgraded' to the planet-x forged calipers, which weigh naff all, but are less powerful. I've not missed the power. And I'm a 210lb fatty!
I can see a point in the wet, or mud, but as 95% of nice road bikes only ever see a sunny sunday morning that's a fairly spurious argument. A commuter or cross bike would benefit given their use in the mud and rain, but the current setup of road bike brakes just works.
matthew_h - MemberI'm still unsure of the neutral service and wheel swapping implications of disc brakes in the pro peleton. Totally unsure how they'll sort that successfully.
Just the same as they do now with different gear options, SRAM Shimano Compagnolo Carbon rims Alloy rims etc.
njee20 - MemberI guess they'll be close enough to work, or team mechanics will get good at undoing caliper bolts on the fly
Indeed.
Engineers on here, how hard would it be to agree and stay accurate to a really tight "standard" for both the thickness (when new/unworn) and the distance of the brake rotor from the NDS locknut? If you could get hub and rotor manufacturers to be accurate to within say 0.1mm, would that make wheel changes on neutral support cars workable?
Engineers on here, how hard would it be to agree and stay accurate to a really tight "standard" for both the thickness (when new/unworn) and the distance of the brake rotor from the NDS locknut?
well, my take on this, how many headset standards are there? how many bottom bracket standards? even disc brake mounts?
I really doubt anyone is going to agree on one standard.
Aside from performance, one thing that sells hydraulic discs to me is the almost complete lack of maintenance needed. Change the pads once a year or two, and if you're unlucky you might have to bleed them at some point.
Not so much an issue for the fair weather riders, but if you're out regularly in typical UK conditions you're forever adjusting and tweaking. Picking bits of metal out of your pads. Afraid to use them when those bits of metal start grinding. Cleaning. More adjusting and tweaking. New cables. New pads. And so on.
Out of the entire bicycle. Rim brakes are the biggest pain in the arse. There's not a week goes by when they don't need attention.
Set up correctly disc brakes are very precise as to where the rotor/frame/caliper are. I can quite happily swap wheels on two of my bikes.
Out of the entire bicycle. Rim brakes are the biggest pain in the arse. There's not a week goes by when they don't need attention.
er?????
I am doing 6000+miles per year in all conditions on the road bike and 1000 on the mtb.
Guess which brakes need more work?
The discs on the mtb by a country mile. The calipers on the road bike just work, no gaffing, no fiddling.
Set up correctly disc brakes are very precise as to where the rotor/frame/caliper are. I can quite happily swap wheels on two of my bikes.
Can be, but take two frame manufacturers two wheel manufacturers now get them to agree what goes where to the point where all wheels fit all frames with no shims?
I rode just under 6,000 miles last year. Most of them on my caliper rim braking road bike. Half of those miles I rode on a pair of 1998 Campagnolo Neutron wheels which I changed midyear because I got sideswiped by a car driver rather too keen to turn off without looking properly - but it was ok because she punted me into a bus stop which had just been resurfaced with that especially grippy coloured tarmac so I stopped very quickly with my elbows and knees in time for her to continue her turn and drive off with a large dent in the side of the car as though nothing had happened.
I'm currently using some wheels built for me by Monty Young in 1997. The brake blocks were put on the bike in 2006 when I replaced the original groupset with shiny new carbon Centaur.
My main road bike was until last year still running just fine on 2005 Record - I think I might have replaced the brake blocks on that in 2007 - since that time I'd ridden 5 Dragon Rides, 4 weeks in the high Pyrenees, a week in the Alps before ridng la Marmotte, a week in the Dolomites before riding Maratone dles Dolomites, I'd also ridden 3x Tour of Flanders, ridden 5,000 + miles since 2007 a year on Sunday club runs and other riding. Oh, and most of all that riding was on a set of 2006 Eurus which I've retired to my cyclo cross bike now.
I don't get this sudden rash of bikes with brakes that don't work, blocks that wear out when it rains, wheel rims that wear out in 6 months.... please tell me what I'm doing wrong?
aP - Memberplease tell me what I'm doing wrong?
You sound like a rider who doesnt use his brakes, a pure menace on the roads charging around at break neck speeds putting all the other road users at risk and depriving component manufacturers of a good living. 😉
I do find pads wear fairly quickly in winter, about it though. My PowerTap wheel lasted 3 years before I rebuilt it, perfectly happy with that!
Engineers on here, how hard would it be to agree and stay accurate to a really tight "standard" for both the thickness (when new/unworn) and the distance of the brake rotor from the NDS locknut?
Dead easy, especially at a pro level where the kit's going to get replaced fairly regularly before it's worn out. The main wearign component is going to be the forks dropout. Most adjustment is there to account for manufacturing inaccuracies in the fork, the hub and caliper are milled so probably accurate to +/- 0.1mm at least (the milling bit will wear through a run so it's not going to be exact even if the machine is set up correct for the first part).
How often are the neutral service called upon anyway? I assumed it was primarily just an advertising gig for Mavic as most of the teams have several cars following with wheels the bikes are already set up for rather than chucking some mavic wheels in, then having to adjust the brakes, then the gears being out, etc.