[Closed] Oh those cheeky scamp motorist commuters!

unless it's a mandatory cycle lane with a solid white line there's nothing the police could do, even if they wanted to.

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Tape one of these
[img] http://s7g3.scene7.com/is/image/ae235?$p$&layer=0&size=281,281&layer=1&size=281,281&src=ae235/45940_P [/img]
on the end of your right handlebar and squeeze up the left hand side of all the offenders.

Squeeze past then pull wide in front . This did end badly for me when the offending driver deliberately tapped me from behind with his mini cab so I stopped he then tried to swerve round and in to me I punched his bonnet he then drove into a side street got out and hid in the dark shouting threats and inviting me to fight. Naturally I'm not thick or brave enough to follow a private hire driver into a badly lit side street in Chapeltown.

Filter past them, then drop the suckers when the lights go green. Same as every junction 8)

Overtake on the right. (especially if turning right)

retro83 - Member
drop the suckers when the lights go green. Same as every junction

Swoon

unless it's a mandatory cycle lane with a solid white line there's nothing the police could do,

even if they wanted to.

yep, shout at the local council for change. write to your mp. cause a fuss but whatever you do don't get your expectations too high.
Theres one the same near me, dotted line cycle lane and to be honest the road isn't wide so cars fill the little bit of bike lane and to get safe you have to go around them on the right and watch that the lights don't change. Pi44 poor bike lane planning.

You could just queue? radical view i know, i mean if you did that how would you look down your nose at drivers. You'll be perfectly safe IN a queue.

unless it's a mandatory cycle lane with a solid white line there's nothing the police could do, even if they wanted to.

This although most ASL and filter lanes tend to be a solid line (mandatory is the wrong word though?). Might be worth asking them at least, they might have a list of junctions they target in the same way they deploy the mobile speed cameras in response to complaints?

I get similar on my commute (in the car though), there's often an empty lane turning left onto the M4 at a roundabout (ML straight on, RHL going right), so there's always some bigshot who'll stream past the que and sit at the front thinking they can then pull over. But the layout means unless you're in something pretty quick you won't get across as the ML also splits and goes left so they've effectively got 2 lanes to cross. I've taken great pleasure watching people stick to the lane and not yield to let them in sending them off down the motorway 😈

Auto paint is very badly damaged by DOT fluid. Maybe you've just been bleeding brakes, and a little got onto your glove, or a rag or something...

APF

Wee [s]in their shoes[/s] on their tyres

You could just queue?

radical view i know, i mean if you did that how would you look down your nose at drivers.

You'll be perfectly safe IN a queue.

You'll be perfectly safe IN a queue.

Yup, that isn't why the bike lane and ASL's there, definitely not there to protect you from getting squished by motorists turning left, definitely.

Streetview?

[quote=STATO ]You could just queue?

You mean let the motorists unilaterally remove a little bit of cycle infrastructure? I presume this is at least a slightly useful bit of infrastructure - presumably you're of the opinion that we have too much useful cycle infrastructure?

Go down the line of cars every morning, knocking on every window and politely informing every driver that they're in a cycle lane and would they kindly desist from such action forthwith?

get together with other cyclists and block the highway moving very slowly to this point so they can understand how frustrating it is

Reality is if plod or the council wont do anything then live with it

DP

If it's a solid white line then IIRC they're all breaking the law. Take photos, with number plates clear and report the whole lot to the Police
If it's a dashed line then sadly the drivers are not in the wrong, legally - IRRC in which case one of:
1. campaign to council for a proper cycle lane - either solid white line or fully segregated
2. join the queue in the traffic - as unpleasant as this is re exhaust fumes
3. get off your bike and walk along the pavement to the ASL and if lights are still red, get back on
4. Find an alternative route, ideally down quieter side streets

Its a solid white line with the bike lane marked in different coloured tarmac

Photos to the local police twitter feed is my current favourite idea

You could just queue? radical view i know, i mean if you did that how would you look down your nose at drivers. You'll be perfectly safe IN a queue.

If I wanted to queue in traffic on my way to and from work I'd drive a car, not ride a bike.

I'm all for not going up the left hand side of lorries and what have you, but having traffic plug gaps that are nominally for bikes is mildly irritating.

STATO's comments are rather stupid to be fair.

The police love prosecuting motorists. It's high visibility and a great smokescreen to divert attention from the overall lack of doing any policing that the general public actually consider important. They should be all over this.

Having said that from a cyclists point of view I say nail the barstewards. Repeatedly.

Junkyard - lazarus

DP

A little harsh JY, even by your standards..... 😉

It's definitely Critical Mass campaign time every Friday for a big loop around the city with a coupe of hundred cyclists.

its the only way they will learn

I've taken to positioning my car to prevent this carry-on when driving in Cambridge. It's especially satisfying when holding up one of Panther Taxis' thugs who so often threaten to maim me when I'm cycling.

Is there not room to filter up the right? Don't get obsessed as to where the cycle lane is as they are usually poorly designed. I frequently filter on the right in queues as it is reguarly safer. (Note I do not say always every road junction is different needs to be judged on merit no hard and fast rule etc.)

[i]STATO's comments are rather stupid to be fair.[/i]
I disagree.

Extremely bloody Stupid.

Where is this?

It's especially satisfying when holding up one of Panther Taxis' thugs who so often threaten to maim me when I'm cycling.

Just had a Panther cab nearly take me out in Willingham, so I feel your pain (nearly).

STATO's comments are rather stupid to be fair.
I disagree.

Extremely bloody Stupid.

Charming.

My initial comment suggesting queuing was intended to be in response to suggestions for trying to squeeze through, apologies, i was not clear. I was not trying to suggest that blocking facilities should be ignored.

However...

I do wonder what people think the actual purpose of an ASL is?

There seems to be a belief that facilities are purely there to allow faster travel than other traffic, or that facilities should mandate protection, rather than facilitate it through allowing the cyclist to carry out the actions that give them the safety.

The purpose of an ASL is to allow a cyclist to position themselves in the centre of the lane when they may not otherwise have been able to do so (due to cars alongside) in order to travel through a junction in the centre of the lane, thus preventing cars turning left on them or 'squeezing' them by being alongside through the junction exit. Is it not?

So if they point of an ASL is to allow a cyclist to take the centre of the lane, then if you can place yourself in the centre of the lane but a few cars back are you not just as safe? You will be travelling through the junction in exactly the same manner, centre of the lane with cars behind you, only difference being there may also be a car in front of you.

So if you can join the back of a queue safely (by pulling out into the lane, or at the back of a stationary queue) to travel through in the centre of the lane, is that not safer than trying to get to the front when you dont know if the lights are going to change, leaving the cyclist stuck on the left of a moving lane of traffic which they then have to merge with as it goes through the junction.

Im not saying you need to join the back of every queue, its a judgement call and i am comfortable with merging with moving traffic, filtering or just sitting in a queue. But if i know im approaching a queue that contains a lot of left turning cars or has a squeeze at the exit, i just take the opinion that its safer/easier/simpler for me to just join the queue.

Of course if the junction is wide enough to travel through on the left without getting squeezed or has little left turning traffic, then i would continue to use the cycle lane to and through the ASL, staying to the left. But most junctions are not like this, or cars may swerve left to negotiate a car paused in the middle waiting for a gap in traffic to turn right.

Cycle facilities should not be abused by drivers, but cyclists should understand they are part of traffic when moving through a junction and understand how facilities are installed to give them safety. I see so many people ride to the front of the ASL (often stopping beyond the ASL line, whats that about) but still riding in the gutter, how is that giving yourself more safety? stay in the gutter and your going to end up with a moron squeezing his car past at exactly the point you dont want.

nice back pedalling but your follow up line let us know your suggestion was not helpful.
I cannot even be bothered googling for a spade so I will just say it and applaud your backpedalling.
[quote=STATO opined]You could just queue? radical view i know, i mean if you did that how would you look down your nose at drivers.

PS education is the answer educate drivers to obey the laws and not go into cyclists spaces and educate cyclists to not ride in the gutter - even if they do its still the fault of the driver squeezing through rather than their fault oh and educate you to troll better and me to not respond to trolls 😉

Not attempting to back pedal. I think my initial post was intended to be sarcastic knowing this is the opinion of many on the purpose of cycle facilities 😆

soundninjauk - Member

You could just queue? radical view i know, i mean if you did that how would you look down your nose at drivers. You'll be perfectly safe IN a queue.

If I wanted to queue in traffic on my way to and from work I'd drive a car, not ride a bike.

i(and most of the other cyclists around here) just squeeze through when they do this its quite funny watching the look of fear in their face as they realise i "onlyjust" fit and any wobble will see their pride and joy marked.

oddly enough i think this discourages most folk from doing it a second time.

You could just queue? radical view i know, i mean if you did that how would you look down your nose at drivers. You'll be perfectly safe IN a queue.

By getting to the front faster (and not queuing) we're actually doing motorists a favour. That's because we get to where we're going sooner, and so more people will think "Hey, I'd like to avoid queuing and get where I'm going sooner, I'll cycle" which gets cars off the road and people onto bikes. That reduces congestion, the remaining car drivers get where they're going sooner, there's less CO2 emitted to melt the ice caps and flood everything (especially important in Cambridge) and less NOx to poison us all.

I think that's why sometimes you get drivers hooting at you - it's their way of showing their appreciation.

So if they point of an ASL is to allow a cyclist to take the centre of the lane, then if you can place yourself in the centre of the lane but a few cars back are you not just as safe? You will be travelling through the junction in exactly the same manner, centre of the lane with cars behind you, only difference being there may also be a car in front of you.

To my mind having a vehicle in front is safer, as it means the driver behind isn't staring at empty tarmac in front of me and thinking "I could be there, if I just barge my way past this prick."

I think that's why sometimes you get drivers hooting at you - it's their way of showing their appreciation.

Love this!

Apologies for polluting this thread with sensible suggestions, but have you tried Cambridge Cycle Campaign? From what I've seen, they're pretty effective. Photos tweeted @camcycle and the local police would probably be a good start.

I'll give STATO some support actually - it's a well-reasoned point he makes at least!
I tend to filter on the right rather than the left of stationary traffic as I think there's more chance of the drivers seeing me in their mirrors.

There are times when I'll be doing this at a red light, on the way to the ASL and the lights will change just as I'm alongside the car at the front of the queue - or sometimes just as I'm moving into the ASL, right in front of the car.

Often the driver won't have seen me - they're looking at the lights, which is fair enough. But this move puts me at risk from my own actions and scares the driver...

I don't know what the solution is quite, maybe longer phases from red to red/amber to green?

The point of this being that if I can't get to the ASL safely, I'd be better staying in the queue of traffic and waiting my turn. It does mean sucking up the carbon monoxide tho

ASLs are teh suck.

https://beyondthekerb.wordpress.com/2013/10/15/tipping-out-the-paint/

I don't know what the solution is quite, maybe longer phases from red to red/amber to green?

An "advance green light", perhaps? Pioneered, as it happens, in Cambridge:

http://www.camcycle.org.uk/blog/2013/09/05/cycle-green-advanced-light-welcomed-but-junction-remains-hostile/

An "advance green light", perhaps? Pioneered, as it happens, in Cambridge:

That is useful for allowing people in the ASL to get away, maybe turn right across traffic held in other direction, but there is still the issue that you can still end up stuck alongside traffic as you go through.

A good solution is to have marked lanes and space in the junctions, so the cycle lanes to continue through the junction and into the cycle lane on the other side. ASL still there to allow cyclists to right turn. They have just done this in Gosforth (Newcastle) and it works well (IME).

ASLs for turning right on multi-lane roads are silly.

"Aha, the light is red, let me get to the front before it turns green; good, now I'm here and it still hasn't turned green (because if it had I'd be stuck on the left near the front, needing to get to the right); let me ride over to the right at right-angles to the traffic and hope it still doesn't turn green (because if it does I risk getting stuck in front of someone who's getting angry); phew, it didn't, now it's green, off I go, oh yippee I'm stuck in the middle of a junction with cars behind me and oncoming cars passing close alongside, looking for a gap to get into. Yay for ASLs!"

Yay for ASLs!"

I've often though they only really benefit experienced cyclists who know the phasing of the lights and are happy putting themselves in primary at the front of a queue of cars

Bingo.

ASLs for turning right on multi-lane roads are silly

I've seen plenty of ASLs on the right of the leftmost lane - this is a better idea, for some junctions at least.

ASLs are used as an absolute last resort in countries like The Netherlands and Denmark. They're for when nothing else really fits, when the junction can't be made better.

Here in the UK, ASLs seem to be the first (and usually only) piece of cycle provision. An open invitation to go up the inside of all the traffic and sit there at the front end of an F1 starting grid. If you're really unlucky, you'll be in a blind spot of a vehicle on that starting grid too.

Councils love them cos it's an easy highly visible way of spending all their cycle infrastructure money without actually doing anything to make cycling safer and without taking away any precious space from motor vehicles.

I've seen plenty of ASLs on the right of the leftmost lane - this is a better idea, for some junctions at least.

I'm not sure I'd agree, but it's not a discussion worth having: it's like discussing which of two similarly large piles of dog poo looks the tastier to eat.

I quite like ASLs. When they move the cars back, rather than the cyclists forward.

Mol, I imagine you fit into the

I've often though they only really benefit experienced cyclists who know the phasing of the lights and are happy putting themselves in primary at the front of a queue of cars

group though don't you? Not the average cyclist or potential cyclist for whom ASLs are at best confusing and not that useful, and at worst dangerous.

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Shame if they happened to catch on a car door or wing or something on your way past, like...

Shame if they happened to catch on a car door or wing or something on your way past, like...

Surprisingly grippy on the shins considering they may as well be made from teflon coated ice the moment they get a picolitre of rain on them.

unless it's a mandatory cycle lane with a solid white line there's nothing the police could do

group though don't you? Not the average cyclist or potential cyclist for whom ASLs are at best confusing and not that useful, and at worst dangerous.

Yes.. although they are optional. Learning how to move up a line of traffic safely is an important part of roadcraft I think. The problem is that no-one teaches cyclists what to do.

I don't really differ the way I use the roads whether I'm on a bike or in a car.
I'm patient and considerate.

Yes, I could squeeze up the side of the cars ahead of me, same as I could use the cycle lane to squeeze past, but I don't.

I'm sure it's purely coincidence that the only near misses I've had recently have been between me and a badger.

I've had a lot of training on the roads, and have never been advised to overtake at junctions. 💡

The problem is that no-one teaches cyclists what to do.

No, there are two problems. One is is that people have to be taught what to do in the first place. And the other is that a lot of the stuff they need to do is stuff that many people either can't our don't want to do.

Fundamentally, riding a bike without having a collision is easy. A three year old can do it.