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@jameso thanks for the info and what’s the future for pinnacle? It was a pinnacle we got as was a great option. To be honest it was the best available.
I'd love to see Pinnacle escape and either go it alone or be picked up by someone else (Zyro Fisher, perhaps....) as an in house brand, like Genesis at Madison. Would be a shame to see it dragged down to Ma's level as it's a good brand making some good bikes.
Pinnacle and Genesis are more closely related than you may realise.
Or to put it another way, was the business sold as a going concern, or sold as a basket case which was then, by choice of the purchaser, turned into one?
The way I understand it that in this case the business retains continuity which I think some people are confusing for being a ‘going concern’. Clearly if the business had sufficient liquidity it wouldn’t have been sold as a pre-pack by the administrator. Some creditors must have lost out here even if the business is now a going concern thanks to SD cash injection. Ashley isn’t going to pay (old) creditors he doesn’t have to.
As said before, main reason for agreeing pre pack admin will be to wash your hands of every cost you don't want, leaving those unwanted bits for the administrators to deal with ( 30 unwanted stores with long term lease agreements and their staff redundancy costs, outstanding debt).
Thereafter, negotiate with suppliers depending on how important they are to you in future. A) stick two fingers up> leave administrators deal with, or B) negotiate out of RoT, agree to pay a debt or part of, to keep the supplier relationship.
I'm only assuming that's how it works, happy to be corrected?.
I’d love to see Pinnacle escape and either go it alone or be picked up by someone else (Zyro Fisher, perhaps….) as an in house brand, like Genesis at Madison.
Pinnacle is Evans own-brand so they ('they' as in the Evans post-sale) own the TM. Can't see them selling it as the brand is valuable to Evans, also based on solid VFM bikes via a fairly customer-direct model and a distributor to IBD route to market can't be as competitive these days.
Thanks for the positives though... I want to see the good things we've done with Pinnacle continue.
Just been in to my local Evans to pick up a click and collect order I placed a couple of weeks ago. As above a sign on the counter indicating vouchers not being accepted for the foreseeable future, and not available to buy. The mechanics were busy but no other customers and the shop seemed very quiet
@B.A.Nana
As said before, main reason for agreeing pre pack admin will be to wash your hands of every cost you don’t want, leaving those unwanted bits for the administrators to deal with ( 30 unwanted stores with long term lease agreements and their staff redundancy costs, outstanding debt).
Thereafter, negotiate with suppliers depending on how important they are to you in future. A) stick two fingers up> leave administrators deal with, or B) negotiate out of RoT, agree to pay a debt or part of, to keep the supplier relationship.
I’m only assuming that’s how it works, happy to be corrected?.
I think the new owners will take free of all past debts, the 8 million paid to the reciever will probably cover those. As for redundancy payments, as they took over all the business, all employees retain their employment rights against the new owners under TUPE and so the new owners will have to fork out for redundancy payments.
Not sure about the leases, possibly arrangements with the landlords remained to be negotiated. Often leases terminate automatically on an insolvency. So the options for the new owners would be agree to take over the lease*, or let it go (landlord terminates and repossesses).
*Ashley did comment to the effect that he would be entering into negotiations with landlords, presumably running the "offer me a reduced rent/ rent holiday or this will be one of the stores I let go" argument.
I’d love to see Pinnacle escape and either go it alone or be picked up by someone else (Zyro Fisher, perhaps….) as an in house brand, like Genesis at Madison.
You do know Zyro-Fisher are for sale or certainly were a few months back.
Not sure if anyone else has posted, but I just got some Tesco Clubcard vouchers and found that the Evans deal has ended 🙁
Apparently SD got 28m worth of stock for 8m quid. Bargin.
Did they have 8M worth of Tesco vouchers?
Apparently SD got 28m worth of stock for 8m quid. Bargin.
Yes but commitment for rent / wages etc. ... whilst it might seem that simple on the surface there'll be underlying expenses that need to be met or someone else would have bid 10 / 12 / 18 million for it (Halfords ???)... he's probably taking the stock value (which has probably been over inflated) as something to offset other costs.
Mr Ashley is soon to be the only person that actually owns anything on the high street as every other shop is closing ... it'll be interesting to see in 5 yrs if his .... what I perceive to be as an massive gamble ... plays out as it should as how can you survive in retail when every other shop is going bust???
The only thing a high street (although there may not be any left in the future) can do is promote your name / act as a form of advertising just by being there to help promote online sales.
If I had shares in anything he owns personally I think this is the point I'd probably sell them and wonder if he may have over stretched himself in a massively diminishing market unless it's a springboard into taking them all online.
is that 28m in value or RRP? What does he have to pay the supplier on that?
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… it’ll be interesting to see in 5 yrs if his …. what I perceive to be as an massive gamble … plays out as it should as how can you survive in retail when every other shop is going bust???
As I explained earlier in the thread, Evans didn't go bust due to any fault in the business model, or because of online competition, or anything like that- it went bust because last time it was bought out by a private equity company they saddled it with unrepayable debt at crippling interest rates, payable to themselves. They would still be trading today had they not been bought by sharks, just like Maplin.
So it's not really a gamble for Ashley, it's just a case of exploiting the damage caused by a different sort of shark.
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The only thing a high street (although there may not be any left in the future) can do is promote your name / act as a form of advertising just by being there to help promote online sales.
If I had shares in anything he owns personally I think this is the point I’d probably sell them and wonder if he may have over stretched himself in a massively diminishing market unless it’s a springboard into taking them all online.
George A Romero set Dawn of the Dead in a shopping mall as he said that when zombiefied and most of the brain died, people would return to habit or flickers of memory and hence they all lurch toward the mall.
Look at most malls or town centres now, people often go there whether they're spending or not, or pass through fairly regularly. If you can buy at online prices from a familiar name while you're there, why wouldn't you? Some people get more from online shopping as it's easy, some enjoy retail shopping as an activity. Retail:Online mix will continue to change in future but showrooms will always be an advantage for some and bikes are difficult to sell online only.
What James said.
Apart from the DOTD bit... 😉
Exactly what jameso said. Most high streets area dieing yet meadowhall is getting a 300 million expansion. There's already a sports direct, a Debenhams, a JD sports and a house of Fraser, wouldn't surprise me at all if an Evans pops up there too.
Exactly what @northwind said.
Ashley and/or the previous VC owners are only interested in the deal. The bottom line. How much money can they make. Customers are merely a conduit for money into the SD coffers.
There's an interesting piece in today's papers about the number of staff Ashley has dispensed with and the amout of debt he has walked away from.
But, look on the bright side. Philip Green has ensured that Ashley will never be given a knighthood.
Meadowhall will juat become a massive apple store i predict one of the shops i worked in there as a student had the highest retail cost per foot outside of london and it was comparable with oxford street ironic the biggest sellers were proflexes animal watches berghaus jackets and timberland boots..
George A Romero set Dawn of the Dead in a shopping mall as he said that when zombiefied and most of the brain died, people would return to habit or flickers of memory and hence they all lurch toward the mall.
But will they return .... I reckon older people might but younger people default to online
My daughter orders 3 dresses, tries them all on and sends 2 back and this is becoming the new norm with the youngest not even discovering what a high street actually is to have any wish to return to it.
That's not me saying I'm right and you're wrong and I hope it's me that's wrong as I think the loss of shops is a great shame.
Why manufacturers / suppliers don't make retailers stick to recommended retail price which would give the shops back a margin they could survive on.
Whilst there's the convenience of online shopping most people probably buy online because of the discounting and it'd take that advantage away.
Why manufacturers / suppliers don’t make retailers stick to recommended retail price
Because price fixing is illegal
@jameso - did this affect the development of new Pinnacle products? Anything coming soon that you can share with us?
younger people default to online
It's a marketing-by-numbers myth that people's habits or interaction with brands, marketing etc vary that much with age. People vary, that's all. It just comes down to a balance of convenience, personality etc. What we do seem to agree on is that people research more online then may buy in store and retail outlets can do things that a screen can't, particularly with bikes. Question is how much of your business costs are based in the retail premises side of it and how that works with online sales, info etc. Evans is in a good position there, has been for a while and could be doing a better job of it (see points here about need for investment to maximise that).
Why manufacturers / suppliers don’t make retailers stick to recommended retail price which would give the shops back a margin they could survive on.
As above, it's illegal and as you say, a product's value is set by online pricing anyway.
@jameso – did this affect the development of new Pinnacle products? Anything coming soon that you can share with us?
All MY19 is done and day to day work on future changes and ranges hasn't changed. MY19 info hasn't all gone out yet, some could have been out this week but it'll be next week and afterwards now.
I got a gift card yesterday for me birthday, must have been bought in the last few days & probably now worthless - if it is I'll be tempted to place a massive order to collect in store then then throw a big strop & cancel the lot when they won't accept it. Petty, yep.
@mcj78 - The thing is it's not the poor sod on the shop floors fault is it? No need to be an arse with them when they can do nothing about it and there's a good chance of them being made redundant ☹️
Agree through gift vouchers are a joke. We got some for toys r us from a friend for one of the kids birthdays just before they went bust. Had to pony up the cash ourselves. I don't see why people don't just give cash in this day and age of retail companies going bust left right and centre .
I'd actually be the last person to go in & cause a scene, it's just frustrating - although it looks like someone on the previous page was a day away from losing 2 grand, that would be a bit more difficult to stomach & may possibly result in an Adam Ant-stylee alternator through the window episode.
It's irrelevant anyway as I tend to steer clear of anything related to MA, do genuinely feel sorry for the staff as it's highly unlikely this takeover will benefit them in any way shape or form.
It's not like the previous owners did anything to benefit the staff either. They willingly crippled a company for their own financial gain.
Oh well, that makes Mike Ashley fine then.
I don’t see why people don’t just give cash
In our family (but not by me) at least it's seen as lazy...
Yeah, 'cos paying for a gift card shows a real effort was made.
@chakaping would you prefer no job or a crap job when no one is stepping up to offer you a good job?
As far as I can tell it was looking like 100% instant job losses and is now 50% with some notice, so no it doesn't make him alright but it makes him a shed load better than the last owners
It’s not like the previous owners did anything to benefit the staff either. They willingly crippled a company for their own financial gain.
Well private equity move it to invest a little and try and then pump up the value of the business and sell it on. It's a form of speculation.
In this case their gamble failed.
That's not what happened here though is it?
They put the company into debt and milked it for interest payments.
They might have 'milked it for interest payments' but my understanding is they still made a loss. Would be happy to be corrected though.
Tesco vouchers may be back in the next few weeks according to the chap I spoke to today on the online chat.
Did you speak with "Adam" by any chance?
I spoke to Quinn
Just been into the Havant branch ... explained I was in drawing up an Xmas list and asked if they had a sit bone measurement tool ... yes we do but it's for Bontrager saddles only and we don't have any of those in stock (which they did but not many).
The obvious reluctance to help a customer in a quiet store on a Monday morning says he obviously doesn't like his job and would rather the store he works in is one of those that's closed and he's made redundant.
I in the meantime will go elsewhere to do my Xmas list which will pretty much exclusively be for cycling gear!
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Great, so Sports Direct now hold my Data, I'm pretty certain they're not allowed to spam me with adverts for over-sized mugs, white shell suits and advice on staff exploitation, but then it's Sports Direct, will they care about the rules?
Great, so Sports Direct now hold my Data, I’m pretty certain they’re not allowed to spam me with adverts for over-sized mugs, white shell suits and advice on staff exploitation, but then it’s Sports Direct, will they care about the rules?
You can exercise your "Right to be forgotten" ... I would of thought with the potential size of the fine ... chances are they'd comply.
I also got the sports direct now hold my data email and also got this message via a work perk thing:
We know that you have previously purchased an Evans Cycles Instant e-code. Following the recent news about the retailer going into administration, then being purchased by Sports Direct, Evans Cycles have suspended the acceptance of instant e-codes and the sale of new instant e-codes.
Thank god I spent that quickly!
I also got the sports direct now hold my data email and also got this message via a work perk thing:
We know that you have previously purchased an Evans Cycles Instant e-code. Following the recent news about the retailer going into administration, then being purchased by Sports Direct, Evans Cycles have suspended the acceptance of instant e-codes and the sale of new instant e-codes.
Thank god I spent that quickly!
am still waiting to see if my voucher was accepted as part payment for an Exposure light, which is out of stock and for which I am still waiting. 3 days post order, the change of owner and decision that the vouchers were no longer valid.
Customer Services have said that they are expecting the lights in stock next week, and that my order should be honoured. But would they tell me otherwise!?
Watch this space....
Evans to begin accepting gift cards again (from 16th)
https://www.evanscycles.com/help/gift-cards-and-vouchers
So he’s failed to reach agreement with Intu landlords over four House of Frazer stores which he’ll now close
Doesn’t look good for my local Evans at Lakeside then
It ‘seems’ that the Tesco clubcard offer is up and running again. In time for Christmas!
How much faith should I have in it working and being honoured?
Tesco's end is up and running, Evans on the other hand I'm not so sure. I asked on the chat to see if they were processing them and the answer I got was vague, they'll be processed just not sure how long they'll take.
To update on our C2W voucher situation:
We were issued a voucher, which was then retracted because of the change in ownership and another issued pretty much immediately.
spending the voucher proves tricky, not because it’s invalid, but because Evans are having to open new accounts with every supplier. Within a couple of weeks I’m assured all will be back to normal and we’ll be able to order form the usual brands.
Evans are having to open new accounts with every supplier. Within a couple of weeks I’m assured all will be back to normal and we’ll be able to order form the usual brands.
If you were a supplier, and a big customer went bust, was bought out and didn't pay you what they owed, would you give an account to the same customer, and its new owners?
If you were a supplier, and a big customer went bust, was bought out and didn’t pay you what they owed, would you give an account to the same customer, and its new owners?
I'd be putting them on pro-forma.
The remaining £24 million is owed to unsecured creditors, including trade suppliers, who will receive just 2.5 pence in the pound.
Ouch, can't be good for wider bike suppliers to be taking that hit.
Evans is now accepting gift cards, I've updated Mcraque's thread on the Chat section with the details
I’d be putting them on pro-forma.
I'd have done that several months ago...
As I believe some did.
New Evans has credit terms with suppliers, in part due to how we're backed by a very large company. As far as I'm aware there's only one brand we sold before that we're not working with now.
I had a OneUp dropper on order since end of September when they had the £30 off over £100 offer on - had paid on credit card just in case. Up until now i'd been told i'd get it - given 19th November date for stock to come in, but still not in stock and no new date available. Asked for a refund and told its not possible to give refunds for orders made before they were sold. Have just raised a claim with credit card for it......
Where are we up to with this now? Am I safe to cash in some Tesco vouchers and buy something?
My patience and goodwill for Evans has expired. They’ve had my bike in their workshop for over 10 weeks this year, a combination of poor repairs and ‘waiting for parts’. I’ve shopped with ‘em for 20 years and this will be the last. They’ve been brilliant in the past, getting me out of a pinch on a few occasions. This year though, service and communication is beyond a joke.
We’ve just used the Tesco scheme successfully.
I hate Ashley but two Altura waterproof jackets and some thermal tights for £30 worth of voucher is too good to turn down when it comes to kids Christmas presents!
I hate Ashley but two Altura waterproof jackets and some thermal tights for £30 worth of voucher is too good to turn down
And that right there, is the cost of principles! 😉
And that right there, is the cost of principles!
Exactly! I was dead against slavery until I realised how cheap it is...
Just to add a positive Evans story... I recently bought one of those Norco Fluids that STW said might be the best bike below £2k.
I shopped around for ages and was fairly set on the Norco, but wary of only being able to buy it from Evans what with the sale and some issues I’d read about. However, the bike arrived in stock earlier than indicated, was dispatched quicker than I expected and was set up nigh on perfectly when it arrived. Very pleased. Not pleased I’ve supported Mike Ashley, but I’ve gotten a good deal for my new bike.