[Closed] Oh dear, extreme 'critical mass' failure...

To be fair to the "mass" that didn't show up: it's ****ing February! I can think of a load of things I'd rather be doing than riding slowly through a dark, cold, grey city centre on a Friday evening...

Yeah. Much better to be in a nice, warm car.

As I commute through the usual gales at this time of year,I have often wondered what happened to all not just the CM mob,but all the other people that are supposed to have taken it up since the Olympics.

Critical mass achieves absolutely nothing. What is the point in them?

There have been confirmed sightings of a Jeremey Clarkson on the Strand and at the Echo arena, along with Sir James May and Richard Hammond, and a chap dressed in white and Known as THE STIG.

enough to put all cyclists off liverpool tonight.

TOPGEAR LIVE at the Echo Arena till sunday it appears.

If we keep this thread going long enough, that plant from CM will come back. What was his name again? [s]Another RudeFred troll[/s]

Critical Mass are a bunch of idiots who do more harm than good to the cause of cycling in the UK.

TOPGEAR LIVE at the Echo Arena till sunday it appears.

Puts pointless pedant hat on.
You do realise that 'til is a contraction of until? So shouldn't be spelt till.
Takes pedant hat off.

Edit

Puts pedant hat back on
I just looked it up out of curiosity - as I was going on what my English teacher taught me 20 years ago.
It turns out that till is an older word than until, and that until developed out of till about 400 years ago. So weirdly till can be accepted as a contraction of until, as can 'til. So I was wrong 😉
Puts pedant hat in a locked cupboard.

Critical Mass are a bunch of idiots who do more harm than good to the cause of cycling in the UK.

In London, perhaps, but not in other cities.

I think Critical Mass has had its day. There's better ways to campaign and the best way of raising the profile of cycling is to ride every day not just once a month in the dark with a few pals

It's funny, we have been looking at our counties cycling plan and each districts cycling plans, and every single one of them focuses on what I will call 'transport' cycling, ie. Commuting and utility cycling, with huge effort and oodles and oodles of money pushed into schemes to deliver this.

Not a single discussion on recreational (sport, fun, fitness) cycling, and not a penny spent on it either,

We then looked at the survey data, and it was clear that not only was the vast majority of Cycling actually 'recreational' but the biggest thing that people were asking for was safe, traffic free recreational cycle routes rather than safer ways to commute or ride to the shops.

Perhaps the worst legacy of critical mass is that they have forced cycling down this 'save the planet' pathway, pushing all the attention and effort into making cycling a viable form of 'transport' rather than something enjoyable and fun that people can do, and as a result we've actually put people off riding bikes by not developing the infrastructure they actually need?

Perhaps the worst legacy of critical mass is that they have forced cycling down this 'save the planet' pathway, pushing all the attention and effort into making cycling a viable form of 'transport' rather than something enjoyable and fun that people can do, and as a result we've actually put people off riding bikes by not developing the infrastructure they actually need?

I don't think critical mass have much of a "legacy". It's a pretty small movement in the UK, and I suspect they have have had little or no influence on planning for cycling compared to the more organised campaigning groups.

Why can't commuting and riding to the shops be "enjoyable and fun"? Riding to work or the shops beats getting in the car for me every time. I love recreational cycling, but I think that developing local utility cycling is where we need to spend the money.

I can believe that your survey data shows people asking for traffic free recreational routes. I hope we can change the idea that cycling is just a Sunday afternoon spin on a converted railway track with the kids, and make it a viable everyday activity for people who don't even consider it at the moment.

Look at Copenhagen or the Netherlands. That's what we should be trying to emulate:

[img] [/img]

although I'm pessimistic about ever getting serious infrastructure in the UK, so I think this might be the best bet for a cycling future:

[img] [/img]

I can believe that your survey data shows people asking for traffic free recreational routes. I hope we can change the idea that cycling is just a Sunday afternoon spin on a converted railway track with the kids, and make it a viable everyday activity for people who don't even consider it at the moment.

Yes, the question is whether you do that by getting them to go out and find a love of bikes by helping them enjoy it, or by browbeating them into doing it because cars are evil?

Commuting and utility cycling, with huge effort and oodles and oodles of money pushed into schemes to deliver this.

Where do you live? Because almost everywhere in the UK the funding spent on cycling infrastructure is naff all compared to car infrastructure.

Cycling is unusual in that it can be a sport or it can be serious transport - and often it's both for the same person on different days. So for the serious transport side, you need to compare like-for-like spending with other forms of transport. For the sport side equally, look at sporting provision compared to other sports.

Not a single discussion on recreational (sport, fun, fitness) cycling, and not a penny spent on it either,

Sounds about right to me. What we need to get away from in the UK is that cycling is a recreational activity that requires going on an organised ride, wearing all the right gear on an expensive bike. Yet, if we need a pint of milk we nip to the shop 2 miles away in the car.
I firmly believe we need to adopt the European (specifically Dutch and Belgian) attitude where everyone has a bike. A basic town bike that's practical and easy to ride. And ride it everywhere without thinking. To school, work, the shops, into town.
Once you're out of town there's pleanty of leisure cycling everywhere. It's the towns and suburbs that need the cycle paths, so this makes perfect sense to me.

+1, also they dont get in a huff about helmets and other such H&S stuff. They just ride, like we used to do as kids.

Yes, the question is whether you do that by getting them to go out and find a love of bikes by helping them enjoy it, or by browbeating them into doing it because cars are evil?

I don't think that is the question. Creating good urban infrastructure will enable many more people to find a love of bikes than building "recreational" facilities ever will. Imagine everyone lived near a proper cycle route, and could see their friends and neighbours enjoying the fresh air, getting some painless exercise and saving money by making short trips around town on their bikes. Alternatively, you could build leisure-orientated routes that don't integrate with people's day to day lives, and which you drive to in the car and use on a sunny weekend.

Which one of those is going to get the most people cycling?

I don't see any "browbeating" or "damning of cars" involved in building urban cycling infrastructure. You're just offering people something that is obviously much better when you see it in action. Apologies for posting this again, but it explains things much more eloquently than I can:

[i]"In Groningen, the average person cycles 1.4 times a day. That's how it goes"[/i]
[i]"...a bicycle isn't considered to be a strange toy, it's not a sporting object, it's a simple method of transportation."[/i]

Lots of smiling people, and a distinct lack of recreational cycling. In fact, the people in that video seem to be talking about cycling with a genuine passion that you don't always encounter in "recreational" cyclists!

Spot on [b]kcr[/b]

Plus this:

don't get in a huff about helmets and other such H&S stuff

just ride, like we used to do as kids

What we need to get away from in the UK is that cycling is a recreational activity that requires going on an organised ride, wearing all the right gear on an expensive bike. Yet, if we need a pint of milk we nip to the shop 2 miles away in the car.

Spot on, as is kcr. A nice ride to the shop or taking kids to school along a couple of miles of disused railway or a sustrans route in the spring is both transport and leisure time. Use the car if it's chucking it down, realise that the bike is nicer on other days. Get that right and soon a number of those practical bike users will want to leave the car behind more often, or go a bit further just for the sake of riding and there's no need to suggest they suddenly need the right bike, lycra and a lid.
Trail centres and cycloparks are great but that's preaching to the converted and in some ways / for some adds to the impression that bikes are for sport, nothing else.