[Closed] Off the peg tourers.

Budget?

Wife got a croix de tour from genisis on c2w she uses it for commuting . I added a front rack and some panniers it shall transport her round Canada this summer 🙂

genesis tour de fer is nice this year. disc trucker is always good.

If I were to be looking to replace my bike, I'd be taking a close look at the Spa cycles own brand touring bikes. Last time I had an idle look they looked astonishing vfm and come with good reputation.

Genesis Vagabond, perfect touring bike, lots of clearance for comfy tyres.

Alpkit seem a good start for a budget tourer.

Vagabond. You mean the bike that went out of stock almost instantly. No denying it's a good bike but a mare to get hold of.

And sorry tons right it's a tour de fer we got.

We've got a Spesh AWOL and a Surly Disc Trucker.

Hard to fault either, tbh.

Pinnacle Arkose X 2017?

I have a Long Haul Trucker and a Spa Steel Tourer. Both great touring bikes. Mine were built from a frame/fork with near identical builds.Having been riding both unloaded the past few weeks I'd say the Spa is a better everyday bike. Just a touch nimbler and faster steering. The Trucker does feel stiffer unloaded and I'm 16 stone.

The Trucker is flawless for fully loaded touring though. With 4 panniers it's stable enough to coast hands free from 30mph to walking speed. Always stable through corners.

Nice touches on the Spa are 6mm lower rear rack bolts rather than usual 5mm. 132.2 OLN so either road 130 or 135mm hubs can be fitted.

I have heard Spa are open to tweaking their off the shelf bikes if there are are particular preferences.

Ones reason for the Trucker rather than the Spa is tyre clearance. Trucker takes 700x42-45 with mudguards. Spa is 700x35 with mudguards.
So if you might want to run bigger tyres ......

Vagabond. You mean the bike that went out of stock almost instantly. No denying it's a good bike but a mare to get hold of.

We have a medium in stock, if anyone wants one - and could probably get hold of a large and **possibly** a frameset too.

Vagabond. You mean the bike that went out of stock almost instantly. No denying it's a good bike but a mare to get hold of.

Really? Just had a Google and seems to be readily available.

2016 model reduced to £750 here:
[url= http://www.freeborn.co.uk/genesis-2016-vagabond-bike ]2016 Vagabond[/url]

2017 model available here (medium in stock, other sizes available to order):
[url= https://bike-uk.co.uk/products/genesis-vagabond-2017 ]2017 Vagabond[/url]

The Arkose might seem a leftfield suggestion, but it ticks some good boxes as a tourer...
Front and rear pannier eyelets
Mudguard eyelets
Hydraulic brakes
45mm tyre clearance
Relatively light bike

1x10 gearing might be a slight weakness, but it's a 38T chainring and 11-36 cassette, which is a fair range.

https://www.evanscycles.com/pinnacle-arkose-x-2017-adventure-road-bike-EV275629

1x10 gearing might be a slight weakness, but it's a 38T chainring and 11-36 cassette, which is a fair range.

Either you're very strong or you haven't been fully loaded touring!

Genesis Vagabond, perfect touring bike, lots of clearance for comfy tyres

I have one and love it for what I planned to use it for - general multi-surface duty and rough-touring. But would I recommend it for general (paved) touring? Not at all. I'd want something with a longer top-tube/wheelbase and with different gearing. I'd be looking at a tourer like Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe, Genesis Tour de Fer, Spa Cycles or even a good-condition 531ST retro-tourer, ie Galaxy, Dalesman etc. For bargainous touring look at used examples of Raleigh Royal.

Don't get me wrong the Vagabond is a great ATB/backroads/offroads/tourer. But for long road tours I'd be happier on a 'proper' touring bike that has been expressly designed for that use. I'm also a little fed-up with the 2016 Vagabond's paint which seems as thin and prone as tissue. Ah well, one day a custom respray will sort it out more properly for long-term rough and tumble.

The Arkose might seem a leftfield suggestion, but it ticks some good boxes as a tourer...
Front and rear pannier eyelets
Mudguard eyelets
Hydraulic brakes
45mm tyre clearance
Relatively light bike

No front pannier mounts - that's an eyelet for a guard. Can make a good lightweight tourer for a weekend but if you needed panniers F+R I'd go for something else. Maybe the forthcoming cr-mo touring version.
I'd agree with simon also, 1x for loaded riding isn't ideal. If you had a 46 on the back and a lighter load then maybe.

For the OPs description I'd look for a relatively light steel frame and fork with mounts. An RB Panorama, Surly or Jamis tourer might feel a bit steady unloaded but that's the compromise, get a bike that works loaded and it'll always be the case to some extent. A vagabond on 45mm road tyres with guards could be good too.

I have had a few off the shelf tourers over the years but the step up tomy current condor heritage, not much in price but massive in spec, and comfort. I ve had itnow for 15 years and rarely use it but when i do love it. They had one in their sale recently. Its been on some great tours.

I've been impressed with OH's Ridgeback World Voyage. Comfy steel frame, but no sign of instability with loaded panniers (unlike my P-X London Road) and it's discrete enough to leave locked up. The Shimano low end shifters are actually quite good now, and seem similar to the old 5600 style ones, plus you can use a triple. Only change i'd make is some mini-V brakes instead of the Canti's.

http://www.freeborn.co.uk/ridgeback-tour-bike-2016?gclid=Cj0KCQjwpdnJBRC4ARIsAHC6k2L9aKyAY5IqYMcdxOG8jKqAhFtz10vDWO-rB69xw4YdoymDtInJ514aAhPVEALw_wcB

always owned a touring bike. the last 12 years that has been a surly. 1st a lht, then a disc trucker. but 1 thing that got on my wick was the toe overlap, even on a 58 or bigger frame.
recently bought a genesis tour de fer in a xl size. it does not suffer from any toe overlap.

can anyone explain this?

For credit card touring and cycling I'd just use a normal road. Ike. Slap on bag on post and bars and your done without the weight penalty. Posting from Geno on tour. B&B or hotels provide most of what you need. Heading towards the Alps next.

For wild camping etc I use my MTB and lightweight OMM backpack.

If I were traveling the world I'd still choose light weight hsrdtail MTB over the weighty tourers. More marketing hype.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I have one and love it for what I planned to use it for - general multi-surface duty and rough-touring. But would I recommend it for general (paved) touring? Not at all. I'd want something with a longer top-tube/wheelbase and with different gearing....

...Don't get me wrong the Vagabond is a great ATB/backroads/offroads/tourer. But for long road tours I'd be happier on a 'proper' touring bike that has been expressly designed for that use....

Id agree with that. Its a lovely bike but with weight on it you dont really end up with as nice a bike. Its not wobbly or flexy like some, just uninspiring. Mine replaced an LHT, LHT is much nicer loaded, it almost seems to enjoy it, lovely bike. Ive not ridden the vagabond for touring, its an offroad commuter that gets a heavy pannier only occasionally, it handles it fine though.

Final note, which tool at genesis fitted dropouts with both pannier AND mudguard mounts?!!? I say this because there are no holes on the stay bridges to fit a guard, not that it matters as you cant get a full SKS in there as the short stays mean there is little room between the guard and the seat tube. I had to dimple my SKS with a heat gun for the seat tube to get a constant fender line, then it meant the only front mech that would fit was a new side swing shimano. That faff alone is enouhg to knock it as a touring option.

Here is mine though. Its very pretty

[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4250/34974432262_e11c0764e0.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4250/34974432262_e11c0764e0.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

"If I were traveling the world I'd still choose light weight hsrdtail MTB over the weighty tourers. More marketing hype."

Which lightweight hardtail would you choose then for 4 up pannier touring across remote areas - and i dont mean light and fast chasing a record touring i mean taking in all the sights , wild camping where you stop carrying a number of days food at a time......

people who tour know about the merits of a proper touring bike.
a bodged up road bike does not work when loaded.

More marketing hype

Tourers predate marketing hype by about 100 years!

Tourers predate marketing hype by about 100 years!

Indeed! There is no way I'd want this lot on a lightweight hardtail...

[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4185/34666516811_8595d184eb_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4185/34666516811_8595d184eb_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/UPmXFH ]Adventure begins here.[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/simondbarnes/ ]Simon Barnes[/url], on Flickr

I heart my Tdf. 🙂

Love to see a good touring bike thread, nice to see some mentions for the RB Panorama as well.
Here's mine on Barra...
[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5482/10841864493_ea70d8b24a_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5482/10841864493_ea70d8b24a_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/hw4oAa ]Barra Beach[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/107347896@N06/ ]Richard Picton[/url], on Flickr
I like mine alot, although it needs some use at the moment.

Edinburgh bike always had a great value tourer.

My Surly Disc Trucker had been faultless on several multi day tours. Also serves me well on my occasional commutes, including some gravel sections.

1st a lht, then disc trucker. but 1 thing that got on my wick was the toe overlap, even on a 58 or bigger frame.

Was your LHT a 26"? My 700c 60cm has no toe overlap with 700x42 tyres, mudguards, 175mm cranks, and size 49 feet. A 2008 model though I'm not aware of any major geometry changes.

no, a 700c.
i had it on both the lht and the dic trucker.
still rode fantastic tho. needed a new groupo, and i couldnt be arsed doing it, so chopped it in for a genesis tdf.
away to france on friday for a nice 600 mile tour to christen it.

End of a recent tour, propped up outside the Tesco at Aviemore after doing 130miles of the Lochs and Glens route (amazing!).

[URL= http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp187/rcatkin/Bikes/Genesis%20Tour%20De%20Fer/75171FC6-4E7C-47EF-ACEF-BF368DB26553_zpss2i2z9ke.jp g" target="_blank">http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp187/rcatkin/Bikes/Genesis%20Tour%20De%20Fer/75171FC6-4E7C-47EF-ACEF-BF368DB26553_zpss2i2z9ke.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

Set up perfectly for me. I converted to flat bars, after a few different ones I found my dream combo, a Hope 25.4mm stem and matching 17 degree Salsa Moto bars (no longer made so a real chore finding some)

Also Paul Components shifter converters to run 9sp Dura Ace bar end shifters as thumbshifters. Got some touring spec Deore hydraulics (longer levers) and Portland Design works stitched ergo Italian leather grips (no need for gloves!).

Hand recovered Bel Air saddle in proper leather, DMR magnesium flat pedals, Exposure Dynamo hub with a full B&M lighting system with rear brake light too and USB charging for my phone. My brother (Peterpoddy) built the hub up with Mavic xm319 rins with an ultra reliable XT rear hub.

Tyres are Victoria Hyper Voyager Kevlar tyres in 35c size, no tread on them but they grip very well pretty much everywhere, don't puncture and are light too.

All the gearing is as bought, Alivio cranks and mechs, work superbly.

Lovely lovely lovely!!!! I really love it!!

I was just going to add to this thread. I rode my tdf into work this morning, with rear panniers loaded with a case of beer in one side and a few changes of clothes and some bike spares in the other.
fitted with a tubus rear rack, I have to say it feels a bit noodly and flexy compared to the ogre.
it feels more suitable to lighter loads, or it may just feel a lot lighter to me than the ogre, and that I am not used to it.

How do loaded tourers feel when stood up pedalling?

My Arkose, which isn't a tourer as mentioned above, is like a pile of jelly when stood up pedalling with any serious load, I avoid it like the plague. Fine with light loads, but horrific with a child on the rack and extra weight, or a couple of full panniers and a box of stuff on top

How do loaded tourers feel when stood up pedalling?

I fitted a 22x32 bottom gear so that I don't need to do stand up pedalling.

Likewise fitted a deore triple.

One doesn't simply stand up and pedal when loaded up.

away to france on friday for a nice 600 mile tour to christen it

Whereabouts in France are you off to Tony?

I've got a Kona Sutra which I love, had it about 6 years now. Not ridden anywhere nearly enough over the past year or two - need to rectify that!
RM.

Whereabouts in France are you off to Tony?

Biarritz mate, riding back up to either St malo or Cherbourg.
depends on the good lady and how good she is going.

My TDF is fine loaded up. I've not put huge weights on but with 2 full large rear panniers on I've gotten out of the saddle and done a little spring and it feels fine and could take more.

but with 2 full large rear panniers on I've gotten out of the saddle and done a little spring and it feels fine and could take more.

but as you very well know, your weight and 2 panniers is just a little bit different to my weight and 2 panniers............ 😆

How do loaded tourers feel when stood up pedalling?

I had an AWOL that felt absolutely fine when stood up pedalling. Unlike a lot of bike it's designed to be front loaded, using something like a Tubus Tara or Specialized Pizza rack.

There's a number of advantages: The rear of the bike can be more compliant, so comfort and pedalling efficiency are better, most tourers are overbuilt at the back to stop the panniers waggling around.

Because there's less weight over the back wheel broken spokes/rims aren't as likely.

It also means that even when fully loaded you can ride the bike normally, the front doesn't lift when going uphill, you can stand up to push off from a stationary start and braking feels better. No way I'd ever use rear loading bias again!

Rode it from London to Oslo like this, it was perfect:

[img] [/img]

Interesting set up

I like a bit of stand up pedalling - either for a short burst of uphill, for some variety, and to stretch out my back a bit which can sometimes hunch over on slow grindy climbs

I don't know much about touring bikes, but I think that Dawes Bikes (particularly the Galaxy) had a good reputation. Their [url= http://dawescycles.com/product-category/bikes/2014-bikes-touring/ ]current range[/url] seems to have just about every price point from basic right up to a mind-blowing expensive titanium offering.

how many days food can the awol carry in that guise + tent, clothes and cooking gear ?

I was expecting a Fargo to get mentioned at least once

I was expecting a Fargo to get mentioned at least once

pretending to be a disc trucker or ogre, and failing.

It was a 15 day trip, camped every night (apart from on the ferry) completely self sufficient. I probably had 2-3 days of food at a time, but the seatpack actually had my hammock in it (tent was in a pannier) which I only used once. If the seatpack was empty I could have gone for a week without needing to stop for supplies.

Whereabouts in France are you off to Tony?
Biarritz mate, riding back up to either St malo or Cherbourg.
depends on the good lady and how good she is going.

Following Velodyssey at all? Just did a chunk of that a couple of weeks ago...
It was crap 8)
[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4200/34847151182_75a128d931.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4200/34847151182_75a128d931.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://flic.kr/p/V6jKZq ]P1060262[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/107347896@N06/ ]Richard Picton[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4253/34312407614_c68aa74dab.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4253/34312407614_c68aa74dab.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://flic.kr/p/Uh54mJ ]P1060394[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/107347896@N06/ ]Richard Picton[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4197/34167866234_337ec140a6.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4197/34167866234_337ec140a6.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://flic.kr/p/U4ifeY ]P1060430[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/107347896@N06/ ]Richard Picton[/url], on Flickr

Rich, yes mate. up to la Rochelle, the heading to see a mate in nantes.
looks rubbish. 😀

Excellent, there's loads of marked VTT trails when you get near to Royan and further up. Worth a play.

My vote would go for something by Dawes. You should be able to pick up a Super or Ultra Galaxy 2nd hand for a good price and they re cracking bikes. Not as versatile in terms of gravel or whatever but properly designed touring bikes.

How do loaded tourers feel when stood up pedalling?

My Arkose, which isn't a tourer as mentioned above, is like a pile of jelly when stood up pedalling with any serious load, I avoid it like the plague. Fine with light loads, but horrific with a child on the rack and extra weight, or a couple of full panniers and a box of stuff on top

The Ridgeback feels fine stood up pedalling, whereas my London Road felt much like your Arkose.

Something that might help with your existing bike is simply stiffer tyres - i.e. Schwalbe Marathon. Flexy sidewalls aren't great with a loaded bike imo.

[img] [/img]

I used a Salsa Vaya for a 340 mile joint last summer. I think I overloaded it at the front as it wobbled below 6mph. Don't know whether it was the bar bag which was the final straw. Aiming to take less crap next time. I think the Vaya is more a 'light' tourer and a Surly Disc trucker might have coped better. Pure conjecture on my part!

How do loaded tourers feel when stood up pedalling?

It's sort of a different technique I find. I used to act as a guide for a blind triathlete and you do the bike leg on a tandem and riding a loaded tourer standing felt similar. On an unloaded solo your body kind of stayed static and you move the bike under you to the left and right. On a loaded tourer you try and keep the bike a bit more static and you do the dancing.

Benp1, I think this is it ^
An Arkose or London Road will have a laterally stiffer frame than most steel bikes but they will feel very odd if loaded heavily at the rear only. Too much weight and inertia for most bikes to handle - if you load evenly front and rear you'd be riding more as Convert suggests and the flex feel will be quite different.

Could just take less?

I would look at the traditional touring bike companies like Dawes, Thorn (although they are very rohloff oriented), maybe Raleigh, and Spa. Stick to the specialists they have been making these bikes for years - the British Touring Bike is highly regarded throughout the world.

OP, is yr friend XL-sized by [url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ridgeback-panorama-de-luxe-touring-bicycle-/162531866217?hash=item25d7a77669:g:7NcAAOSwlMFZKp7X ]any chance?[/url]

Spa have a heftyish reduction on the [url= http://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s21p3343/RIDGEBACK-Panorama-Deluxe ]M/L[/url]

 I think that Dawes Bikes (particularly the Galaxy) had a good reputation.

I had a Dawes Galaxy, bought new in 2010, and it is an amazing tourer- rock solid but super dull to ride the rest of the time. I was only doing the occasional tour so I sold it, bought something else that was more fun to use the rest of the time (Surly Troll) and put up with the noodleyness when it's fully loaded. If I was buying again I'd consider a Surly Ogre or a Faran Fairlight

Could just take less?

well without knowing where or what the OP is doing thats a less than unhelpful statement.

Just finishing up booking up my next tour of west/north canada touching on southern alaska. Shops might be a little thin on the ground + we plan to do things other than cycle on the way so need a bit more kit than my wildcat kit will allow me to carry.

one bit of advice i bould add when buying a tourer, is take in consideration of the rider weight too.
some modern tourers are not suitable to take a full set of bags and the rider weight too.
also, alloy frames do not make a good tourer.
here is a list of some of mine from over the years.

Dawes galaxy, used for roughstuff, 10 mile timetrials and touring.
Ridgeback horizon, bought from Freewheel (remember them?) it was stolen
Cannondale T something. vile rigid torture machine. frame cracked.
Revolution explorer. far too lightweigh frame build. a good day audax bike.
2 x surly lht. 1 was a 58cm it was too small. one was a 60cm, i bent the frame falling off on ice.
2 x surly disc truckers, one was stolen, the other swapped for a ogre.
1 x genesis tdf. the jury is out.

Ton - while you have great experience of a few bikes and lots of touring I think you are probably at the extreme end of what bikes have to cope with - tall/big etc and with added loads even the strongest bikes are at their limit somewhat. A bike you might have found a little flexy might be fine with a smaller lighter person (e.g most other people!).

Hope you like the TDF, me and my brother both like ours.

thanks for the comments re stand up pedalling and jelly-like-handling when rear loaded

I've never toured, I'd like to but don't have any near or mid term plans to. If I had a front rack option maybe I'd use it for local errands where I need the space to carry shopping etc. Might be better off with a cargo bike but I'm at the limit of N+1

I went to the supermarket on my arkose at the weekend. I had my daughter on the rack in a child seat, I have a pannier full of food attached to the back of the seat, and a small (fold up) rucksack attached to the pannier. Probably 25-30l worth of food (plus the bag of bagels she had on her lap). I knew it would pedal badly but it's only a mile or so from home. The journey was fine on the move, but anything involving turning or movement meant the whole thing handled like a pig. Which isn't straightforward when you're on a narrow cheeky path avoiding overhanging branches and potholes. I kept stopping to put my feet down as I often couldn't correct the wobble

Not brilliant, but also not what the bike was designed for and I'd loaded it badly so not it's fault

I often ride with a child and carry some stuff, doesn't work brilliantly on a normal bike. Ironically, and against all odds, it works great on a Brompton... bag up front, child inbetween on a Milian Pere, me, then either or both of a rucksack and/or carradice SQR tour

That's all slightly off topic, but it got me thinking about stability/pedalling/fun

I should point out that while I often do it, it makes up a very small percentage of my bike miles so I just deal with the jelly handling