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I'm interested in one for my enduro and/or trail bike (could swap cranks between them).
Who's using them and what can you say about:
1. Whether the hype is real
2. Which model to buy (there are several now) and whether you can use any old 104BCD ring/nuts/bolts
Thanks in advance
I have no experience, but also curious.
The thing that puts me off is needing to go back to bolt on chainrings, I rather like the simplicity of direct mount.
Had mine about 18 months - on a 180mm Marino single pivot (so significant chain growth/pedal kickback), running at 9°. Been really impressed, definitely makes a big difference in terms of grip/sensitivity on chunky tech where you're braking.
I've also found I'm getting less foot pain/sole wear (I run flats) and I think less drivetrain wear too.
Running a 30t 104bcd ring no problem - you should find any will fit fine ?
Run one on my G1, which is predominantly an uplift bike.
- Bike is much quieter (its pretty quiet to start with, lots of velcro and other bits)
- There is no drivetrain noise of the cassette engaging (this is more slow speed)
- My feet are less fatigued on an uplift day, there is definitely a lot less feedback through the pedals.
You do need to service them reasonably often and the rubber bumpers inside tend to get mashed a fair bit. If I was doing more pedalling, would probably take it off and keep it for the big uplift days.
Been really impressed, definitely makes a big difference in terms of grip/sensitivity on chunky tech where you’re braking.
I’ve also found I’m getting less foot pain/sole wear (I run flats)
Cheers, I'm also a flats rider so that's good to hear.
You do need to service them reasonably often and the rubber bumpers inside tend to get mashed a fair bit.
Like once a year or more often? Is this with the service kit that's about 30 euros?
Love a quiet bike so that bit is good.
Manual states (for the new version) every 150hrs/1 year.
I tend to find my original one wants to be looked at every half a dozen rides.
Eep, that sounds like a bit of a faff.
What do you have to do to it?
I loved mine on my firebird. 9 degree setting
It's mainly a solution to an existing problem, if you have that particular problem but comes with side benefits that wouldn't be worth the cost on their own.
It absolutely reduces drivetrain feedback to the pedals and harshness/hanging up of the rear wheel on bumps.
I used mine for a year and intentionally didn't open it up, I noticed no change in performance but perhaps it would feel quite different after a refresh now? I certainly didn't feel like it was necessary.
The way it quietens down the drivetrain is nice and shifting is smoother.
It does change the balance of the bike in high-load scenarios if your bike relies on anti-squat rather than decent shock damping for support, I'd find I sometimes ran wide out of certain corners because my weight was further back than I was used to. Neko Mulally likened it to running a lighter weight spring and would consistently use more travel with the ochain during testing.
Eep, that sounds like a bit of a faff.
What do you have to do to it?
Cranks out, cover plate off, takes 15mins tops.
OK thanks.
So which do I buy?
Is it between the R and the N models?
I have one on my Privateer 161, I’ve been running it for around 12 months now. Mine is the older version O ChainR that’s externally adjustable with a dial. I do change it between minimum float (4 deg) on my local jumpy stuff to 9 or 12 degrees for chunkier stuff. Ran it at 9 deg the entire time out in the alps. Haven’t serviced mine yet, probably due one. Honestly see no drawbacks at all, great bit of kit. You can run any 104 bcd chainring, I have a raceface ring on mine currently.
I'll admit that I'm only semi-interested, but think I'd be far more interested when the hub integrated versions come along. Unfortunately it looks like E13 might be first to market there. Believe the rule is still not to trust E13 with anything that has moving parts?
Believe the rule is still not to trust E13 with anything that has moving parts?
Yup. Kaboom.
I'm interested in O Chain too, just don't ride enough at the moment to justify the expense. Also, those with multiple bikes (i.e. all of us?), if you have if on one bike, do you notice not having it on the other? Or is it something best suited to the chunkier end of riding where there's less pedalling? i.e. would you have one on a trail/downcountry (eurgh) bike as well as a enduro bike?
think I’d be far more interested when the hub integrated versions come along.
I was not aware of these, but since I have a good selection of nice wheels already - the crank spider will work best for me anyway.
I’d buy the R so it can be locked out for the ups.
That's an interesting idea, I presume it's more of a pain on tech climbs than fire roads though? Once you're pedalling steadily it can't be noticeable?
I was leaning toward the R because I wouldn't bother adjusting it if it was internal.
If you are clipped in or spin in smooth circles, uphills arn't a bother, more for technical stuff
Brian Cahal did a review the other day, on a G1 funnily rnough
Brian Cahal did a review the other day, on a G1 funnily rnough
That's a really good review, thanks for sharing.
I've subbed to his YT channel too 🙂
Yep, thanks for sharing. I want one now...
Here's another video which is worth a watch. I'm definitely curious about them as well.
Group buy!!
Actually I blew the budget on a half price X2 from Merlin last week - so this might be an over-winter purchase for me now.
It's the sort of thing I'd like to demo before spending a big chunk on one.
My mate Seb, of Pinkbike fame, was running one a couple of years ago for regular enduro Tweed valley style riding and didn't really see the point unless you were racing. He said it isn't worth it.
I love mine. It keeps the suspension much more active through rough stuff. I've also seen a big improvement in chain retention and the drivetrain is noticeably quieter.
I watched that video earlier. Sort of surprised no one told that guy what causes the pedal kickback. You'd think it's some kind of mystery listening to him.
Not ridden a bike with O-Chain but want to. I noticed our guide in Molini had one, seemed keen on it. Had a quick fiddle with it and could see it was effective even in a non riding situation.
How TF does this effect the suspension? I get there may be some feedback from the chain flapping about being damped but the other "benefits" simply don't stack up and smack of confirmation bias or emperor;s new clothes syndrome.
Can't help thinking these'll eventually go the way of the anti-vibration stickers or Leatt braces . . . .
Go ride your favourite downhill with no chain and you'll find out.
More provocatively, what is the difference between this system and running a hub with fewer engagement points?
I’ll start: more weight, unnecessary complexity/ extra points of failure.
I’m genuinely asking though - what am I missing?
Vorsprung suspensions pedal kickback video features the best explanations for what the Ochain does (or doesn't really) help with.
I have one on my Stumpy as I find it gives a lot of feedback through pedals when locking rear up on really steep trails, combined with stfu chain silencer it's a really quiet setup, 6° setting.
More provocatively, what is the difference between this system and running a hub with fewer engagement points?
You are playing russian roulette with the engagement points.
No one has published results from sticking a set of power meter cranks on and trying to see if there is a measurable effect. I'll go with my feet are less sore after a days riding being as good as my testing gets !
For anyone that cares, there's a guy on YouTube that built a sensor kit to measure (and record his own sensation of when) pedal kickback occurs, I can't find the video now, it was linked on pink bike home page too.
He could definitely feel when kick occured, but also missed quite a few events. The results are more nuanced so watch the video if you care.
It's also worth noting that he now runs an Ochain, so presumably likes it.
I've had mine 12 months or so now,and bought it used, it now needs servicing as has side to side play causing a noisy chain, so no biggie, it was quite hard to find a service kit for it as mine is an early / old model, if you want to buy one id recommend getting a new one, I'd like the R version to play around with the other settings.
Edit: found it
GeForceJunky
Go ride your favourite downhill with no chain and you’ll find out.
Not the same thing. At all.
Removing the chain removes both the weight of the chain, the dynamic effects of it flapping about and some additional damping caused by the clutch/spring mechanism in the rear mech. All these will make the suspension more active.
For O-Chain to be claiming that that's the effect it gives is ridiculous.
Stevelol
I have one on my Stumpy as I find it gives a lot of feedback through pedals when locking rear up on really steep trails, combined with stfu chain silencer it’s a really quiet setup, 6° setting.
If you're locking up - of course you're going to get feedback - the whole bike's jumping about. I quite like the STFUs but I can't see why you'd run both.
In some ways I love O-Chain as it shows that the POE arms race is ridiculous but otherwise (IMHO) it's snake oil.
If you’re locking up – of course you’re going to get feedback – the whole bike’s jumping about. I quite like the STFUs but I can’t see why you’d run both.
So his O-chain is resulting in less feedback - makes sense.
STFU is just a chain guard, no claims of performance changes.
There's no downside to continuing to run the STFU other than the quite dorky looks so I've just left it on, bike is so quiet I don't want to mess with it.
And yeah the bike is jumping about when locking up the rear, but it (OChain) deffo reduces the kicking in the pedals so it's worth using one of you want to minimise that sensation, it's not a particularly desirable bit of feedback in that situation.
OK I'll concede that If the rear brake is locked the chain can go tight if you inadvertently pedal forwards against it and yes O-Chain will give you some cushion in this situation but seriously, this isn't what it's designed for and do people really need to lock the back wheel up all the time? Remember - skids are for kids.
More provocatively, what is the difference between this system and running a hub with fewer engagement points?
I’ll start: more weight, unnecessary complexity/ extra points of failure.
I’m genuinely asking though – what am I missing?
I think that if you had a wheel with, say 4 engagement points, the wheel would be allowed to free-rotate up to 90 degrees during a chain lengthening event, but, critically, that depends on the relative angles of the wheel and casette (ie the degrees between the pawl and the tooth) when the event began. You could get a quarter of a turn, or absolutely nothing
I think the o-chain is set up so you'd consistenly get exactly the same amount of chain growth from the chainring all the time.
the o chain could also counter the effect of the top half of the chain bouncing around when the back wheel isn't locked - I don't know how significant this is - the top bit of chain weighs maybe 100g, but its pulled downwards (compared to the bike) when you hit a bump, which is going to apply some backwards-rotation forces on the cranks, regardless of rear wheel speed. With a clutch mech the mech is resisting giving up chain slack so the freehub can't rotate freely to give you more chain.
I'm not claiming o-chain is better, but from a pure engineering perspective there are advantages to the approach
regarding the negatives :
weight - not super relevent on a dh bike or an enduro bike where these are likely to be seen. 150g is approx 1% of the total bike weight (and its low down) if the concern is manuverability, or under 0.1% of the total system weight if the concern is around climbing.
more points of failure - I don't think the ochain can fail in a way the cranks wont work - it might stop absorbing the losses, but there's a stop at the bottom, so it can't (I think) become worse than a dediated spider.