[Closed] not riding trail centres

Scotland is blessed with numerous small centres dotted around beyond the 7 Stanes. These vary enormously in terrain and 'naturalness', from rocky stabs, to gravel, to motorways. And they are not mobbed. Saying that one does not like trail centres because they are all sanitised or because they are all X is a rather limited view

Has anyone actually been to a trail centre and whilst riding the trails come across a queue of people? You come across groups the same as you do when out riding natural stuff...

Yes I have, hence my comment.

Just to clarify, I have no real issue with trail centres, I'm just a bit bored with them, I think Franki hits the nail on the head with the " bike park" comment in that it's all smooth BMX sections rather than singletrack, even CYB has these now. I think penmachno is my fav trail centre & it's probably the closest to natural? Even if it does fill with water for 90% of the year

Has anyone actually been to a trail centre and whilst riding the trails come across a queue of people? You come across groups the same as you do when out riding natural stuff...

I once followed the entire field of the Whinlatter duathlon around the south loop (no, I wasn't a participant).

That was a day when in hindsight, I should have done the Borrowdale Bash instead.

Having said that, some of them made even my technique look OK, and I got applause and my picture taken for making it around a narrow hairpin without a dab. 🙂

Has anyone actually been to a trail centre and whilst riding the trails come across a queue of people?

You've never ridden Swinley on a bank holiday weekend then?

You come across groups the same as you do when out riding natural stuff...

I can ride "natural" stuff for a couple of hours and meet one or two walkers/horse riders and no cyclists. And I live in the over crowded south east.

I like trail centres, but apart from Swinley they are all at least a couple of hours drive away. For me, the fun on the trail doesn't really make up for hours spent in the car.

Trail centres are nice and all but for starters they are a little contrived, but the main problem is that they are built to be ridden, most of them built to be ridden by the majority. I like a little risk, when trails are "easy" the way to make them more exciting is to speed up, riding stuff blind at scary speeds is liable to lead to a big stack. Mincing down a properly technical lakeland descent still feels risky but with less chance of serious injury.... and the scenery is better, the ubiquitous [i]inside of a forest[/i] view can get a little tiring. This is all personal preference mind, ymmv

I do go to TCs occasionally and enjoy myself there, if there were more close to home I'd maybe go more often. Lee quarry isn't a million miles away (still a bit of a pita to drive to tho) but I've done it quite a few times and can ride from the door on some pretty cool "natural" trails so don't bother with LQ very often.

Having said that I still reckon natural is more normal, ie if you only rode TCs I'd think you were a bit strange and missing out on a whole world of mtbing if you only rode natural I'd understand.

You come across groups the same as you do when out riding natural stuff...

Well I hardly see any big groups when I ride natural stuff. Apart from other bikers. And hoards of ramblers. And horsists. And traffic getting there.

Wait a second....

I like all types of riding. Having been to a large number of trail centres they all have different characters. Ride the seven Stanes the most and you'd be mad to discount them as a riding destination (especially if you live close).

Natural stuff has a different feel and if you want a challenge then perhaps you should look to explore new areas rather than simply avoid trail centres. I tend to set myself riding objectives as I enjoy planning rides and challenges. This year has mostly been about the road but in previous years I've decided to try and explore more classic natural riding. Lead to some fantastic riding in the lakes and Penines as well as finding a whole bunch of fun stuff out of my front door. However, when a group of mates decided to go to Glentress for the day I did that as well.

Trail centres are nice and all but for starters they are a little contrived, but the main problem is that they are built to be ridden, most of them built to be ridden by the majority. I like a little risk, when trails are "easy" the way to make them more exciting is to speed up, riding stuff blind at scary speeds is liable to lead to a big stack. Mincing down a properly technical lakeland descent still feels risky but with less chance of serious injury.... and the scenery is better, the ubiquitous inside of a forest view can get a little tiring. This is all personal preference mind, ymmv

The comment on natural stuff rings true for me to. Looking at something and trying to figure out where the line is, if indeed there is one. Riding over the moors wondering if the rut you are in is going to continue to the bottom or be blocked forcing an emergency escape plan or crash. Riding drops and jumps not for fun but out of necessity as they have appeared from no where. But then a bmx track style descent is fun too.

Mincing down a properly technical lakeland descent still feels risky but with less chance of serious injury..

Trail centres don't have any £$*&£$*** gates

Trail centres don't have any £$*&£$*** gates

Ever been to Afan? You're off your bike at the beginning and end of every section! W2 was like doing bits of the Mary Townley Loop.

[img] [/img]

Those things are annoying, it is true, but not half as bad as your average Welsh farm gate that is chained shut and held together with baling twine and barbed wire so you can't open it or climb over it without losing key body parts

Trail centres have their place. Love natural stuff, but there's a trail centre nearby with hardpack trails that doesn't turn into a bog in the winter - great to have it. Different type of riding, but variety is good.

Thinking of an armoured surface mtb motorway free 2015

The thing that puts me off, they all seem the same, geared towards uplifts for the uninterested in climbing types

Cwmcarn. That is all I have to say to you.

Never been to a trail centre that felt like i had got out into the countryside.

I think it's the lack of map reading and straight lines. If I look at a map of a ride at a 'trail center' then it's really compact, often not more than 3-4 miles from the car. And in that whole time I'll only look at a simplified trail map with no real sense of scale. A comparable length ride somewhere 'natural' would uauly mean about 1/3rd of the length of the ride away fro the car (i.e. length of circular route/pi = max distance from car), and lots of OS map reading giving constant feedbakc of "wow, we're a long way from home". Have a mechanical at GT and you're never further than a 10min of fireroad downhill to the car (except at the bottom of deliverance/redemption).

One key advantage of trail centres is that they are sanctioned MTB trails, and one-way. I ride far faster than would be safe or reasonable when there are walkers about. I don't get the opportunity to hone my skills like that on natural trails.

Never been to a trail centre that felt like i had got out into the countryside.

Come down here for a weekend.

95% Natural / 5% Trail Centre i'd say. But I'm fortunate that I've got great natural riding close to home and my nearest trail centre is The North Face 😯

nealglover - Member

The thing that puts me off, they all seem the same, geared towards uplifts for the uninterested in climbing types and pajamas wearing.

Having never been to one, you will understand why this opinion isn't right

I've been to a few, non of which where geared towards uplift at all.
Or wearing pyjamas.

Well, not revisited this thread until now, I've been working 😆

So, my slight towards the Pajama wearing types was really an off the cuff comment designed to distinguish myself from "them"

You know me by now, CX'er and Roadie, why would I go to a trail center, ok I was invited once, Gisburn but didn't go in the end. And I'll be doing that very shortly as part of my very very long weekend riding Keswicks finest as part of the Lakeland CX event in Oct.

But no, no trail ceners, Stainburn isn't a trail center, it's a bit of a loop or two with some jumps in it, on a hill and most who ride it get uplifts from the bottom to the top in a mates Van 😆
Nor is QECP, I use that a lot, but you do have to ride it, which I love, no chance of getting an uplift there... Lets keep it that way.

It's climbing I'm good at, hacking I'm good at, downhill and I'm a big scaredy cat.. So I'm happy that you lot ride them, enjoy them.

I really didn't know that there were centers without uplifts, no seriously I thought all of them had a "man and a Van" or a Ski lift..

I'm so out of that world it's too embarassing for me to be even typing in this thread.

😆

You've never ridden Swinley on a bank holiday weekend then?

And I live in the over crowded south east..

🙄

Pedalling back up Weird Wood is one of my favorite bits of a visit to Stainburn 🙂

I'd just written a massive response to a comment above but fk it, I can't be arsed. Riding bikes is cool. If some of you lot don't want to ride trail centres, great.

Not your comment Simon 😉

Is that the zig/zag bit that dip's in/out of the woods? I like that too. I've been shouted at for riding it all the wrong way on one too many occasions.

TBH I prefer it across the road, but then you probably knew that 😆

@Dave 🙂 indeed riding bikes is ace. Just ride the stuff you enjoy!
Some of the the views on this thread are hilariously misinformed.

Is that the zig/zag bit that dip's in/out of the woods?

I live on an essentially trail centre-free island.

Going to trail centres is an option, but one that requires preparation and cost.

Dales for me ,love the fact that you can just ride and ride for a good 10 hours , endless bridleway tracks and endless scenery and haven't ever met a grumpy landowner , centres seem to attract lads who have just got into mtbing .

My 'local' is Thetford and I occasionally ride through it as I go to other places. Generally, I avoid the place. Ironically, I'll be headed there for a play tomorrow.

Whenever I have been to Wales I have ridden 'natural' trails but that's only because I have had kind locals show me around. I daresay I'd consider the N Wales centres but whenever I go to Wales nowadays I look at the challenges that some of the road riding offers and I am mighty taken by that.

Scotland, it has been a mix of both and I must say I enjoyed the 7 Stanes centres immensely. The 'natural' stuff has been less inspiring because I never knew where to find the good stuff (where I was staying).

Normal, everyday riding tends to be everywhere except trail centres.

I love the concept for a bit of a blast now and then, particularly when you are somewhere new for a few days. What I don't get are the guys who turn up week after week after week and ride exactly the same trails, round and round in muddy circles. They might call it fun but I don't.

I guess it is good that there are people in both camps otherwise life woudl be pretty boring!

A lot of it depends on where you live.
I live in an area pretty much completely devoid of any decent 'doorstep mountain biking', unlike a lot of people on here.

For me to go somehwere for a 'proper' mtb ride takes a fair amount of planning. And quite often it's easier to just go to a trail centre, than to mess around with 'natural' rides. Quite a few times we've done rides that look really good on paper, but in fact are just a massive slog for long sections, or are boggy and unrideable, so it ends up being a wasted ride opportunity. Going to a trail centre would have been perhaps a bit more controlled and formulaic, but we'd have had a lot more fun, which is what it's all about at the end of the day.

Saying that, if I did live in the middle of a massive area of great riding, then I probably would relegate trail centres to the exception rather than the norm.

As for comments about queues at trail centre.....I've seen no longer 'queues' at trail centres than I have on popular routes in places like the Peaks.

I get the impression from several on here that they think people who only ride natural rides are 'doing it right', whereas people who entertain the idea of trail centres are somehow a lower sub-division of less worthy mountain bikers; seems a bit narrow minded & snobbish.

Variety is the spice of life and all that.

But......

I say what a lot of people are calling natural trails, aren't really that natural, surrey hills springs to mid, yes it has a much more natural feel than a trail centre, but is still essentially the same but is of natural dirt, not armoured stuff, still the same features/terrain/style of stuff. (surrey hills is my fav place to ride tho)

Peak district is hardly that natural either, well what most people ride, the eroded cart tracks.

It's all just gesturing so joe-bloggs can say he's more 'core than the jones'.

What i dont get is the insistence on knowing where you are/trying to get to at all times, there's nothing more relaxing for me than turning the pedals and deciding where im going on the fly, turn by turn.

Niiiice, I'm up in there in a few weeks..

I'm going to take my JimJams 😆

dunmail - Member

As for BMX/bike park features, they are only likely to get added if enough people ask for them.

Mmm. Trouble with this, is that smooth jumps-n-berms stuff is one of the cheapest and fastest ways to build trails, and (normally) durable too so with limited budgets they're a good solution. You can build much more natural stuff, but it's time consuming and harder to do, and making it deal with high traffic volumes is harder still. So trail centres have just quite naturally gravitated that way.

Sometimes it's basically a choice, machine built armoured trail, or nothing at all. I think a lot of people don't realise that. Equally, I've heard people talk about "natural trails", which i built or helped build, being better than "manmade trails"...

Trouble with this, is that smooth jumps-n-berms stuff is one of the cheapest and fastest ways to build trails

The opposite is too true in my experience. The price per meter of a surfaced bike park style trail, with imported stone, large berms and and other features would be in the region of 3 times the price of a hand built, unsurfaced section of trail. With all other things being equal of course.

Sure, but handcut unsurfaced has a different lifespan/outcome, if you're talking busy trailcentres you've got to be lucky in your dirt and ground conditions for it to work. It's very rare we can leave anything as-dug.

(oh- though it helps if you're the FC and you have your own quarry)

Up until a couple of years ago we had no trail centres here. A few times a year we* would make the trip over to Scotland for a change of scenery (first time a K Tree was a revelation tbh, but the novelty wore off after a few trips).

We now have several of our own but we generally keep them for when the natural stuff is too wet to ride. They are a decent day out but the problem with riding natural for so long it that the centres don't really provide a challenge. The black runs are tamer than natural xc stuff we'd normally ride and DH stuff is very poor in comparison.

* Not the royal we, but me and ma buds.

deciding where im going on the fly, turn by turn.

I think you need the confidence of knowing you can get out of any/most situation to be able to do that and not everyone does nor wishes to gain that level of experience. There's also the knowledge that if you stack it at a trail centre and need help then someone's going to be along in a couple of minutes (unless you are there midweek at 9pm!) whereas away from TCs you could be there for days before someone comes along so again you have to have the confidence to be self-reliant.

Northwind: I think trail centres are improving in how they build and layout their trails. A lot used to be: bumble along then come across an isolated technical problem; more bumbling; technical section; repeat. The newer layouts have better flow. It's still early days really, Coed y Brenin is just over twenty years old for example, bikes have changed and the centres are having to change to reflect that but it's not simply a case of heading out on a Friday evening with a pick and shovel and fixing things.

dunmail - Member

Northwind: I think trail centres are improving in how they build and layout their trails. A lot used to be: bumble along then come across an isolated technical problem; more bumbling; technical section; repeat.

Dead trail, I call this- like dead air on tv, awkward gaps of nothing.

So how about going on a 'natural' ride that incorporates bits of a trail centre? Is that bad or good?

For religious reasons I have to ride my bike wearing nothing but body paint and a pickled onion on a length of string. Mainly natural trails for me.

For religious reasons I have to ride my bike wearing nothing but body paint and a pickled onion on a length of string. Mainly natural trails for me.

You're lucky. My religion doesn't even allow pickled onions, or paint.

You're lucky you get a bike...

Bloody heretics

It's fair to say they are all bland, gravel paths with no view or character
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Bonus points if you can name them all

I live just down the road from Afan, - never go there now since it lost its trees - go to Brechfa now and agian but the best bits there are about to be wind farmed and de treed. My cx bike means i ride mostly from the front door now which opens up all sorts of other options.

Pedalling back up Weird Wood is one of my favorite bits of a visit to Stainburn

We just put new stuff in there, hope you enjoy. For those who enjoy Stainburn, next dig on 5th October will be a big effort on rerouting the climb, more switchbacks, get the water off the trail and make it last. Every pair of hands will help, no experience necessary! For insurance reasons you need to be SingletrAction members but that comes with loads of discounts etc.

Ridden all over the world since 1986 on mtbs and I've yet to visit a trail centre. This is not because I don't want to, its just when the opportunity arises to be away from home I want to get out in the big hills away from everything. There are a few I would love to try mind you!

I know a couple of fellow Glasgow based riders who, despite the plethora of superb natural stuff handy at Mugdock and elsewhere, insist on driving an hr to GT or inners every week.

Hey ho its all riding 🙂

I thought riding was riding, whatever? Be it slopping around a field edge, sitting atop a real mountain, or pumping down a specifically shaped track at a trail centre.

Personally I prefer getting 'out in the countryside' so 'natural' rides are more my cup of tea, but show me a trail centre with views and a sense of remoteness and I'll love it just as much as a 'classic'.

unklehomered - Member
Pedalling back up Weird Wood is one of my favorite bits of a visit to Stainburn
We just put new stuff in there, hope you enjoy. For those who enjoy Stainburn

Yesterday we done a decent sized loop in the lakes, it was ace.

This morning we went for a blast round Newcastleton, that was ace too.

It's great being out on natural stuff with flow and techy bits combined with a great view, and it's nice to hit man made stuff with well placed features and berms. The new(ish) bit at the end of Newcastleton was so good we did it twice!

Tis all riding.

Nipper99 - Member
I live just down the road from Afan, - never go there now since it lost its trees - go to Brechfa now and agian but the best bits there are about to be wind farmed and de treed

Cwmcarn is about to suffer similar thanks to more tree disease. Afan has more wind farm stuff being built I believe also.

In the South East we've been lucky that everything has generally been natural... until Swinley got Trail Centred. What was for ages a place you made of what you wanted, explore and make up the route as you liked and people needed to be pointed to the trails, but is now a motorway and impossible to ride at weekends due to traffic. Though it had to happen given the situation there, how busy it was getting, and the amount of people suing the estate crashing on unofficial trails and stuff people were randomly digging.

Not that Swinley was representative of the good stuff in the South East. Thankfully there's loads more, though the tourist spot of Peaslake in the Surrey Hills is very busy these days and MoD lands are at risk of being closed off. There's still plenty more though and most is more natural in feel.

show me a trail centre with views and a sense of remoteness

How's this?

[img] [/img]

There's also the knowledge that if you stack it at a trail centre and need help then someone's going to be along in a couple of minutes (unless you are there midweek at 9pm!) whereas away from TCs you could be there for days before someone comes along so again you have to have the confidence to be self-reliant.

Is this another
"I don't drink alcohol"
"I don't drive a car as it's a pollutant"
"I don't eat meat"

Type STW thread where everyone has to prove they're superior than the rest by NOT lowering themselves to do something..

Crazy....

Occasionally but not for ages. Too much good, fairly weatherproof local riding to do. I have some that I really like - Glentress, Inners being my favorites. But most are quite dull.

I don't like the fact you are always in the forest and cant see much - or that you cant properly scare the pants off yourself like you can on wild or self built stuff. I also don't think it helps at all in terms of practicing for gravity enduros. Doesn't even compare.

An interesting approach to risk and self reliance.

Who said anything about self reliance? It's ****ing about on your bike ffs, you're not being some kind of extreme mountain man by riding your boring natural trails.

boring natural trails

You need to explore more - lol

or that you cant properly scare the pants off yourself like you can on wild

Just speed up!

Cheers molgrips
I'll try my bestest

Whooah there mr_ride_beyond_limits and hope someone else will pull me out of it...
It intrigues me reading stories like this, and then hearing statements like yours. An interesting approach to risk and self reliance.

Ride beyond my limits? Not me - too scared!

I think either I didn't write what I meant or you misread it. Rescues take a long time: I was at one a few years ago, it was maybe 400 metres from the end of the road, a clear day and in open country. Emergency services were called within 10 minutes. The air ambulance was called straight away as there were no vehicles available. It still took nearly two hours from accident to evacuation. Add in time to get to somewhere with a phone signal or even to somewhere with a phone and you can add several hours - a friend had a climbing accident and it was twelve hours until he was rescued, not pleasant hanging in a harness with a broken femur for that length of time.

Sorry for the slight digression ...

Oh, sod it, I'm going to stand up and be counted:

*** I love trail centres - they've changed my life!!! **

I love the way they are designed specifically to put a smile on your face, I love how the ups will always be rewarded with exhilarating downs, I love knowing that the trail design will probably rescue me when I get things wrong, and that I will probably not die of exposure if it doesn't, I love being able to ride without being attacked by brambles and without having to stop constantly to open gates and check the map, I love the fact that almost all of them are entirely free to use (how lucky are we?), and how the latest pump-track style trails make my kids (and me) very happy, I could go on.

As it happens, I probably ride "natural" trails more, but then they're cool too.

Oh, and while I'm at it:

** I love Strava - it's also changed my life!!! **

Wow, I feel so much better already. And cheaper than a therapist.

Riding beyond limits in some situations gets you a grazed knee and hip. In others it would get you killed. You have to know the risks of your immediate surroundings.

@dunmail - fair do's 🙂