[Closed] Not feeling it with flats

Decent shoes?

yeah maybe. Decent shoes cost decent money unfortunately

Different technique to what you are used to. Worth persevering with if you want to get the measure of it and it should be better long term. That said if you are happy on SPDs there is no need to change

There's been a few articles in mags and postings on forums about moving from SPDs to flat pedals recently. I even got tempted to shell out for some for some DMRs and Five Tens... But I stopped and thought about it. I'm in my 40s, and I'm lucky if I get out to ride once a week. I love it. OK, I'd like to improve my technique, go a bit faster... But really, life's too short to have to re-learn how I ride. So I bought a nice pair of Giro Terraduro shoes that will work nicely with my Time ATAC pedals. And I'm going to go out and enjoy my ride.

I bought some superstar pedals and cheap 5:10s (hideous colour on clearance) before an uplift day, it was a revelation, flats are my go to choice now and only put the SPDs back on if I'm cranking out the miles.

But really, life's too short to have to re-learn how I ride. So I bought a nice pair of Giro Terraduro shoes that will work nicely with my Time ATAC pedals. And I'm going to go out and enjoy my ride.

Relearning how to ride is part of the fun, surely?

Can't recommend a skills course highly enough for fixing years of ingrained poor technique, really helped with flats, never had a moment since.

Loads of advice on here is accurate and helpful, but you can't beat watching and learning from someone who knows what they're doing, be it a sympathetic mate or an instructor.

I couldn't go back to SPD's, flats are no barrier to fun and can make you more confident and aware.

Why do you want to ride on flats? I know plenty of people who can ride just as well on technical terrain clipped in.

Recently put some flat pedals on my hardtail - I usually ride with spds - but I'm not really feeling it and have swapped back to spds. Am I missing something?

Maybe, maybe not. But unless your pedal technique was excellent before and you're a quick learner then you probably didn't give yourself enough time to learn out to ride flats - depends on how recently you put them on!

I've been learning to ride flats as well and it's a love/hate thing currently. I put them on to try and get me out of bad habits and teach me some new skills (manualling, jumping etc). I do enjoy the bigger platform, which I find great for weighting the bike when cornering. I don't like my feet getting kicked around a lot, especially while pedaling so if anyone can suggest how to remedy that I'd appreciate it. Five Ten Freerider shoes and Nukeproof pedals.

OP what were you looking for with flats?

Why do you want to ride on flats? I know plenty of people who can ride just as well on technical terrain clipped in.

I've no particular problem with riding technical stuff, if you count the trickier bits of the peak district as technical, but I get the impression that for the more trail centre/skills/jumps style then flats are the way to go. I guess there's a trade-off to be had between the security of being clipped in vs the security of being able to put a foot down/separate yourself from the bike quickly.

Two things, yes decent shoes a must if you are going to get a good feeling with flat pedals. Then its just a matter of what you are used to. I recently went the other way, put SPD's back on my hardtail. I ride clipped in on the road all the time but just hated the sensation off-road, going back to flats toute suite...

Decent shoes + decent pedals.

Anything less feels like riding my commuter, wearing leather soled shoes on plastic pedals, in the wet.

life's too short to have to re-learn how I ride

Total shit. OP just stick with it for a while. I used to be clipped in for everything, now just for SS XC

Skills

Skills

With burns like that, you should be prime minister.

I tried switching a while back and didn't get on with flats at all. All my fault with poor technique but i really didn't like them at all. So switched back to SPD and was a happy bunny. Fast forward and i was having some issues with my left knee so i bought a pair of five ten shoes with saint pedals and bosh.... a whole world of difference. They stick together so well. I will defo switch back again to SPD for summer and racing but the difference a good set of shoes and pedals make can not be overemphasised.

Oh and the physio appointment i should have booked first would have saved me a whole load of cash, my knee issues were absolutely nothing to do with shoes or SPD's 😯

Total shit.

Skills

Classic STW.. 😆

Erm.. ride what you like, how you like.

Personally, I think my riding time is actually too precious to feel I have re-learn anything. Unless I really enjoy having to re-learn stuff (which I don't).

If I was already enjoying riding in clippy jobbies, then I might want to carry on enjoying riding in clippy jobbies.

Unless they made my feet fall off (which they don't).

Why do you want to ride on flats? I know plenty of people who can ride just as well on technical terrain clipped in.

For me its psychological...i'm simply not prepared to hit tech stuff flat out if i'm clipped in, had a few minor falls from road bikes over the years when i've been clipped in and its a horrible feeling....makes me shudder thinking about doing it on sharp pointy rocks from a MTB, i like to be able to dab quickly if needed and i'm not averse to the odd bit of Moto-x style 'foot out flat out' technique through corners...all perfectly doable with SPDs i'm sure but i'm simply not as quick to get the foot free when required.

ride what you like, how you like

Completely agree - do that, just don't talk shit 😀

I've got a friend who tells me "clips wouldn't suit the way I ride a bike". FWIW he rides badly. Learning how to corner would improve his ride-life and enjoyment immensely, but he's not open to change, loves to talk shit and aspires to mediocrity.

Change, adapt, learn, advance - have MOAR fun!!

I'm considering going the other way. Always had flats, now I want to try clipped. I used SPDs on my commuter with road shoes though 🙂

Am I missing something?

I am not a massively skilled rider. (Just ask anyone who has ridden with me!) But I obviously ride clipless on road, and rode clipless on the mountain bike for many years.

Then, in 2010, I switched the mtb over to flats, and noticed no particular difficulties, or need to 're-learn' anything. I don't dip any more than any other rider (afaik), and I don't have any difficulty staying on the pedals. In fact, I find the grip of the pedals keeps my cheap Karrimor-clad feet stuck pretty firmly in place.

I know everyone will have different experiences, but mine leads me to think that we can sometimes place too much emphasis on problems that may not actually be as big as they seem.

What are you trying to achieve by switching? If it's to brush up on your technique you can learn the technique in SPD's, no need to go to flats just to learn the technique. When you get it right you can feel it whether in flats or SPD's.

I just buy last years VANS in the sales. They are excellent and cheap enough to have 2 or 3 pairs on the go.

Put some flat pedals on my soul about 2 months ago, and feel slightly robbed that I haven't faced this huge transition or opportunity to relearn how to ride. Got some superstar nano's cheap and some bargain [url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/sombrio-shazam-mid-top-shoes/rp-prod114746 ]Sombrio's[/url] shoes off CRC, and within a couple of rides didn't really think about it? I only did it because I was putting my spd's on my grrrrrrrravel bike, so thought I would give flats a go. Shin's intact, and I can't say I now even think about it.

The Sombrio's, probably are no match for 5\10's, but I'm very happy with them. Like a true skinflint I now have two pairs to future proof myself 😳

I also bought two pairs of sombrio mid tops, absolutely love them for that money.

Am I missing something?

Not much, I went the other way, after years of being a staunch flat pedals only type rider, I tried spds, now I only clip in...

I wasn't unhappy with flats, I could ride just as well (or badly) with them as spds, I just get on a little better with spds so that's what I ride with now...

Just use which ever you get on with better...

Ignore all the hype though, it's just a pair of pedals, riding flats won't suddenly make you Rad^gnarr.

I don't see the advantage unless you are jumping. It's just a confidence thing, isn't it?

In fact, I find the grip of the pedals keeps my cheap Karrimor-clad feet stuck pretty firmly in place.

Yeah, but in your case your saddle's too low and you're pedalling with your instep 🙂

I definitely go round corners better on flats. I have absolutely no idea why. All in all I like them, but I stick SPD's back on from time to time if I'm racing.

Got a multi-day bike packing trip on an old rail track planned for the summer and I can't decide which to use now.

I have said this before and got flamed but I didn't care then and don't care now. It's my experience and nothing else.
The people I ride with who have been riding since they could walk and are generally the better riders who don't take riding seriously all ride flats most of the time. They only ride for fun so overall speed doesn't matter. The riders who need to be clipped in have come into mtb later and don't understand how we manage to stay on the pedals without being mechanically attached. They use being clipped in as a convenient excuse to not ride steep stuff and won't do jumps, gaps and drops. I have met loads of people who are exceptions to my theory though and many good riders ride clipped in and many bad riders use flats.
In essence just do whatever you feel comfortable with. You don't need to justify it to anyone other than yourself.
In my experience there is a place for both. I wouldn't fancy doing some of the bigger drops and gaps I do clipped in and if I raced xc I would probably ride clipped in.

I've tried clipping in but it made me feel like some kind of 'cyclist'.

Much prefer dangling a leg off and making engine noises.

That's exactly what biking should be. Just enjoying it for what it is. Far too many people take it and themselves far too seriously.
I quite often wake up thinking I'm a motorbike and ride to work making engine noises. Passes the time.

I like riding on flats (although I'm spd'd up at the minute as I want the warmth of overshoes for my mostly night riding).

That said I really am still a bit pants on the flats still and I used them on and off most of 2015. I'm getting better but it really is perseverance.

I don't ride enough really to get quick progress but once the coldest/rubbishest weather is turning I'll be sticking flats back on for most of my riding and keeping with it. I've got some V12's and use cosmetic 2nd skate shoes at about £20 a pair. I'll get some 5-10s or similar in the spring I expect.

Why is my preference for not wanting to change to flat pedals "total shit"?

And how can that preference be extrapolated into an aspiration to mediocrity?

Bit of a leap, that.

For me, the big advantage of flats is being able to re-start on steep stuff when I'm not making a very good job of it. It also makes long hike-a-bikes more comfortable.

I aspire to mediocrity though, so I'm not sure it's the determining factor.

🙂

I'm very one sided on this mainly because i've never rode with my feet attached to a bike (and i never want to if i'm honest). I've read many of these types of threads over the years and the only thing i'm missing is a tiny bit of pedaling efficiency by not clipping in. I'm happy with that.

What you [i]may[/i] be missing OP (again from reading these threads and not actual real world experience) is riding technique. But that's only if you are using your special shoes to hold your feet onto the bike. If you are riding properly you wont be missing anything.

If you are happy with you currently use, then carry on. If you feel like you aren't doing it right (most know deep down) then try flats.

The fastest riders in the world ride clipped in. The best riders in the world ride flats. Who do you want to pretend to be???

@rhyater It's not; obv. your choice is your choice.

You don't have to re-learn how you ride when you change pedal types - you really don't. Unless of course you're doing it worng now... Would you like to continue doing it worng, or would you prefer to find out, adjust, ride better, be happy you found & fixed a fault, increase the fun??

There's some adjustment, sure, but there is with, say, a new car. How about a frame-swap? Bit of a different feel, but you don't go back to the beginning. Same but different.

Why does everyone seem to gravitate towards five ten shoes when using flats? Is it because the sole rubber is good, as with their climbing shoes?

Why does everyone seem to gravitate towards five ten shoes when using flats? Is it because the sole rubber is good, as with their climbing shoes?

Why does everyone seem to gravitate towards five ten shoes when using flats?

I've only used FiveTens and Tevas. The Tevas dried easier, but grip with the FiveTens was materially better.

For me, the big advantage of flats is being able to re-start on steep stuff when I'm not making a very good job of it. It also makes long hike-a-bikes more comfortable.

I think that was what I wanted from flats, along with a bit more confidence when jumping.

I also wanted to learn to bunny hop properly and just wasn't getting anywhere with moving the tail of the bike around with flats on.

The fastest riders in the world ride clipped in. The best riders in the world ride flats. Who do you want to pretend to be???

Peaty, obviously.

Why does everyone seem to gravitate towards five ten shoes when using flats? Is it because the sole rubber is good, as with their climbing shoes?

I've ridden flats for ages now and for a long time used skate shoes, which were OK but the 5:10 Freeriders were a massive improvement grip wise, however I am now finding myself moving away from them.

The grip is great but they're shit in the wet because they soak up water like a sponge. The Sombrio mid-tops I picked up from CRC for £20 are nearly as grippy but resist water better and dry much faster. I have some Giro jackets too which are pretty good. Both are better for pedaling in too because if stiffer soles.

I rode with clips for a few years and swore by them but started riding more DH / jumpy stuff to switch to flats. I've dabbled with clips a few times since but always feel better in flats. The thing I miss when using clips is feel, especially when cornering.

I also wanted to learn to bunny hop properly and just wasn't getting anywhere with moving the tail of the bike around with flats on.

It's always infuriating when people on the internet blether about technique. It is possible though. Heels down, push through the bike etc.

Whether it's worthwhile is a whole other question - there doesn't actually seem to be a trophy for bunny-hopping "properly", and it is certainly easier to do something of the sort when you're clipped in.

🙂

I rode clips for years and years and always felt more comfortable clipped in. Then went to the alps for a week and decided to try flats. Found it much much better for going downhill and cornering. I found I could angle my ankle further back to gain more traction downhill - much easier to drop my heel

What used to happen when riding clipless is my foot would be almost horizontal to the pedal when going downhill and this is a no no.

After nearly 20 years riding SPDs, I've just put my old flats pedals back on. I'm hoping it'll short lived (till the mud has dried up). 3 weeks ago I came off whilst negotiation a rather slippery (very muddy) section, I went one way, my bike with my left leg the other. Bloody twisted my knee. It's still a little sore. Anyway, while there's a chance of it happening again, I'll be using flats.

rhayter - Member

But really, life's too short to have to re-learn how I ride.

There's no reason to permanently change pedals if you don't want to, both types are fine buuut, if you switch to flats and find control issues then there's a technique issue there which you might want to fix even if you stick with SPDs. If you can transfer it back over you'll probably find yourself feeling smoother and finding more grip and control.

But everyone should ride the pedals they like in the long term, daft for anyone but a professional to ride a bike in a way they don't like. I reckon it's worth really trying both, so you know which one you actually like, mind.

BigDummy - Member

Whether it's worthwhile is a whole other question - there doesn't actually seem to be a trophy for bunny-hopping "properly"

When you nail it, a high score flashes in front of your eyes in big gold numbers. So it sounds like you've just never managed it or you'd know, man.

Whether it's worthwhile is a whole other question - there doesn't actually seem to be a trophy for bunny-hopping "properly", and it is certainly easier to do something of the sort when you're clipped in.

I actually find it easier to bunny hop on flats

I actually find it easier to bunny hop on flats

I've heard others say this. I have some weird anxiety with bunny hopping in spds that I'm going to unclip by pulling up too hard on the pedals and end up on my arse.

Decent shoes don't have to be 5-10 branded. if you can get over not having MTB branded clothes head to toe, any skate or BMX shoe will work.

I've been riding in Etnies for years as they're made to take a serious beating and grippy as anything. Fairly cheap too at anywhere from £20 to £60 a pop vs 5-10's which start around £70 from what I remember.

bones - Member

Why does everyone seem to gravitate towards five ten shoes when using flats? Is it because the sole rubber is good, as with their climbing shoes?

The rubber *is* good, but they're also designed to work well on flat mtb pedals. They haven't just stuck a grippy rubber sole on a pair of trainers/skate shoes.

for example: the sole is stiffer than Vans, or running shoes / The sole pattern is grippy enough to work *ok* when walking around, but not so gnarly that they're weird on pedals.

For a while, many years ago, 5:10 impacts were pretty much the only shoes designed to work well on pedals. they cornered the market. They were so far ahead of the game, that we struggled to even find them in bike shops, i had to order mine from a climbing shop.

Now though, other companies offer alternatives. which is great, as they're all a bit different, and we can choose what works best for us.

(Shimano AM40's for me)

and of course, plenty of people find that skate shoes work for them.

I made the change last year, from SPD to Flats proper, as I started coaching with Scottish Cycling and technique is better learnt on flats. The big difference was buying the right shoes (AM40's but I also have ridden with Etnies). I wouldn't go back now I don't think, riding on flats has given me a whole new lease of life and definitely feel much more secure on the bike. Equally I had invested in some serious Funn Flats but then borrowed a bike with a very old and worn pair of Wellgo V8 copies and thought they were superior! Just ordered a new bike and some DMR V8's to go with it.

Thanks for the shoe info. Think I'll order some v8/v12/Saints/Electrons, try them with my Inov8, New Balance, Samba, Shell toes 😆
OP, apologises for taking it OT.

TBH you don't need 5 10s, or any expensive shoes, the best riding shoes I've ever had were some ancient Vans TNTs- really floppy soles but they gripped and they had feel like nothing else, you could tell where the pins were. Fantastic. You needed foot arches like iron bars mind.

Meanwhile the latest 5 10 Impact VXI is, IMO, completely orrible. And it's not just me, they couldn't get Sam Hill to wear the Sam Hill Signature model 😆 Foot anaesthetic, the rubber's grippy but I've never felt so disconnected from a bike. But I love my freeriders

I think the main reason proper bike shoes are so recommended, is it's harder to go wrong- whereas it's easy to get a skate shoe or whatever that's completely awful. My Vans Baxters are hateful to ride in.

I think the bottom line is, a really bad shoe can ruin your ride but any decent shoe will do the job. Really sticky soles give you a bit of safety net though which is very welcome when you're tired, screwing up or pushing your luck.

I changed to flats after a very embarrassing no speed coup landing on tree stumps battering my thigh and denting my top tube because I couldn't unclip. I did try platform spds for a while but they really are the worst of both worlds!

The guys I was riding with at the time (free ridey biased) all pushed me to Flat Boys/5.10s which are a super grippy combo. However after a while I found them too grippy and that my feet would get stuck in the wrong place.

Now I also run (old) DX and sunlines with trail shoes, can't say I've had any problems in years. And never seem to have any shin/pedal interface issues neither.

However I do not aspire to mediocrity as I achieved that particular nirvana at least a decade ago 😆

Those of you that do ride with flats... Do you need to wear shin guards? It's one thing that has put me off riding in flats for mucking about in. Never worn leg protection, though sometimes I probably should, and don't fancy that big piece of metal shin interface.

As someone with dozens of years experience of flat shoes i'd agree 100% with Northwind - you don't need 5.10s. I'd always wore skate/bmx shoes (i [i]was[/i] bmxing most of that time) but later riding the big wheelers i still wore whatever TK maxx had going cheap in a skate/bmx style (usually under £20).

Last year i got my only pair of 5.10s as a birthday present. I like them fit wise but the sole is a lot harder than what i was used to and lacks feeling. As for that special rubber? I can see why my mates raved about them but it's gripper than i need tbh. I don't think i'll get another pair. Firm soled bmx shoes are still my favs.

edito:

Those of you that do ride with flats... Do you need to wear shin guards?

Only playing football 😀

I had so many shinbone shenanigans over the years my shins are like steel. Besides, i love a good shin scar. Doesn't mean you shouldn't [b]but[/b] with 5.10s you'd be doing something very wrong to slip a pedal.

later riding the big wheelers i still wore whatever TK maxx had going cheap in a skate/bmx style (usually under £20).

Do you not get wet feet?

Bloody love my saints.Shopped aboot and got em at a good price.Come with tiny washers fitted which you can use to customize the length of the pins.Used spuds in the past but after coming a cropper trying to climb a steep narrow trail i put em in the loft.

Rose bikes doing them for £34.45
BARGAIN

Don't use your Inov8's.
They only last a few rides before being ripped to shreds.

As above, something cheap from TK Maxx or some proper bike specific shoes.

I don't like 5 10 bike shoes either - badly made and badly designed.
OK for dry places I suppose.

The sole is the only decent thing about them.

I got some skate type shoes for flats. Loads of grip and feel, but because the soles were so soft they were hard work to pedal up hills in. Or am I doing it wrong?

Roter Stern - Member

Those of you that do ride with flats... Do you need to wear shin guards?

Nope. But I do have mutilated legs to be fair (it's not so much the shins with me, it's the calves- it just doens't happen when I'm riding but if you crash, your legs are definitely in the firing line. But crashing hurts in various ways so it's just part of the deal.

There's also a constant background threat, where you go to push the bike across the garage and it suddenly stabs you. Or in my case, when you have one of th bikes hung from the roof and you end up with a pedal strike on your head 😆

Do you not get wet feet?

No wetter than anyone else i imagine. I did prefer mid/high tops for a bit of ankle protection. Duffs 4130 range were very good as were Nikes old 6.0 range (think they're called SB now but don't have the same grip/sole). Having a Nike discount store just up the road is useful for cheap/discontinued stuff 😀

Vans + V8 (copies) = 😀

Anyone remember Adidas Fender Crawlers? They were awesome.

[img] [/img]

Airwalk Jims were good as well.

You don't need shin guards but looking at my shins probably says otherwise. The deepest set were caused by slipping a pedal landing a drop to flat off the roof of a building. Chicks dig scars though which i have found is true. They make a good talking point.

I used to ride SPD's all the time, but switched to flats about 4 years ago & haven't wanted to go back.

I started out with a set of 5:10 freeriders & some DMR V8's.

Having been used to being clipped in (I had been riding clipped in for about 8 years) I was concerned about coming off the pedals so switched during the spring when the trails were a bit drier so I reasoned my shoes would be less slippy on the pedals.

Part of the reason for the change was I had come unclipped while airborne & this was pretty unnerving for me (I did tighten the clamping of the cleats after this).

IMHO changing from flats to clipped or vice versa is one of the hardest things to get used to when going out for a ride. I reckon you've got to go for at least 5 decent length rides to properly get used to either.

I got some skate type shoes for flats. Loads of grip and feel, but because the soles were so soft they were hard work to pedal up hills in. Or am I doing it wrong?

Try pedalling mid foot-ish

I did, still didn't feel anything like as positive as proper cycling shoes, lower legs ended up pretty tired.

Because you're using your lower leg muscles to 'balance' on the pedals rather than let the pedals hold you in position. This is A Good Thing.

My favourite shoe to use is a pair of Nike air trainer 2.

Nice flat sole. Not too soft, in fact quite hard when compared to my other trainers.

I have to lift my foot off the pedal to reposition as they just eat the studs on the pedals, as good as this is it can be bloody annoying sometimes.

I used to ride with M324 pedals religiously....where you could switch to the flat side for the technical stuff and switch to the SPD for the climbing and fire roads. Not the strongest pedals but were fine. Not sure if I benefited from using the clips for pulling on the upstroke but I'm sure there is some benefit for some folk?? I have moved back to flats for the past 2 years and a pair of Vans and don't notice anything different really....at the end of the day its personal choice.

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/more-people-switching-to-flats-for-xc-riding/page/3

After watching the carnage today at a race because people a) can't ride up steep hills and b) can't unclip fast enough when it goes wrong I would recommend a lot more people to try flats when xc racing. It was hilarious to watch and made overtaking like taking candy from a baby.