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Just speculating, is it the lack of perceived consequence that people are pushing the boundaries? Certainly not seen the levels of governance that are in place in other European countries such as the need for an attestation form like in France.
If you want to talk shopping, I’ve not been to any shop (accept the pharmacist for insulin for my son) for over a month.
PURITY SPIRAL!!!
If he puts a face shield on his helemt he'll be fine.
That's what Taylor Wimpey have done (face shield on the hard hat) to justify re-opening their building sites. https://www.cityam.com/taylor-wimpey-plans-to-start-reopening-construction-sites-next-month/
Most construction firms aren't even bothering with face shields, just re-opening most of their construction sistes https://www.building.co.uk/focus/coronavirus-the-major-construction-firms-shutting-their-sites/5105140.article
The tube will soon be full of builders again..........
The temptation is strong (I'm only 40 mins away from the peaks) But I'm resisting and still riding from the doorstep, early doors to avoid peak times.
Just speculating, is it the lack of perceived consequence that people are pushing the boundaries?
I think so. The Police are stretched, although I've seen them moving people on from car parks recently. I reckon a few roadblocks, fines and publicity would get the message across. Maybe the armed forces providing additional bodies on a temporary basis.
If you want to talk shopping, I’ve not been to any shop (accept the pharmacist for insulin for my son) for over a month.
Stockpiling?
Deliveries, booked in advance when it was clear this was coming.
No stockpiling. We don’t have the room for it even if we were inclined to.
Morrisons food boxes filling in when normal deliveries cancelled.
Anything else you want to know about how we’re minimising the risk to our son?
It was someone else doing the whataboutery about shopping being more likely to spread the virus than driving to somewhere you don’t live to ride. I think it’s entirely irrelevant to this thread, and a pointless distraction. Driving to somewhere like the Peak District for a nice day out is non-essential, your weekly shop isn’t.
The regs are actually tighter than I thought.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UvSxBC4rdN0K8cV_n13EuEAJliBLpz2E/view
I think so. The Police are stretched, although I’ve seen them moving people on from car parks recently. I reckon a few roadblocks, fines and publicity would get the message across. Maybe the armed forces providing additional bodies on a temporary basis.
So you want to introduce some variant of marshall law to cut down on a few people pushing the boundaries of vague guidance?
Seems sensible.
The police aren't stretched, crime is down unsurprisingly.
BBC News - Coronavirus: Recorded crime in Scotland down by a quarter since lockdown
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52424893
(Yes its Scotland but it's an indicator for across the board)
The police aren’t stretched, crime is down unsurprisingly
You can't necessarily infer one from the other. For instance, the Police could have a high rate of absenteeism due to CV19. Still, Priti Patel did tell us that shoplifting is down. 🙄
The police aren’t stretched, crime is down unsurprisingly
Ok I'll let mrs100th know she'll be happy as she's just leaving the house to go on shift. It's good that all the criminals are following the rules.
We were going to go for the first outdoor ride since lockdown yesterday but gave the dogs a longer walk and then she worried about the what folk would say if we did go for a ride. Given that there's some boys in blue that will be having a meeting with no biscuits over not following the rules.
You can’t necessarily infer one from the other. For instance, the Police could have a high rate of absenteeism due to CV19. Still, Priti Patel did tell us that shoplifting is down.
No thats a fair point and while it's hard to obtain current absenteeism rates due to CV19 there are reports like these (end of March mind) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/30/police-appeal-coronavirus-tests-officers-disease-absence-rates/
Thats circa 12% decrease in numbers at that point in time, you'd hope by now its less than that given theres been another month.
So yes, there will be a reduction in police numbers it doesn't appear to be as great as the reduction in crime rate, and yes I understand 1% drop in crime rate doesn't necessarily correlate to 1% less required from an FTE perspective from the police force.
I'm fascinated by the relationship between lockdown and crime.
I'd have expected more than a quarter drop in recorded crime, simply due to the massive reduction in human interaction.
But I guess criminals can't apply for furlough.
Has anyone seen any useful reporting on the issue?
I can imagine some workplaces have become targets if they are unmanned for a while. Possibly car theft too?
Certainly reports of fly-tipping around as recycling/disposal sites are closed.
Domestic violence is up, as is speeding.
Seeing as this thread is combining motor vehicles, cyclists and police I thought I would indulge myself in a slightly OT post.
Local to me there is a country park which has to be in the top ten anti-MTB nazi places in the country. Now they aren't getting their car park money I suspect they have furloughed some of their ridiculously over resourced ranger 'force' so they've had to ask the local police to help (already a minor bone of contention, that one).
Anyway, I've been keeping an eye on the Dibble's FB page to see what the 'heat' is like at the current moment. Two posts and the number of responses really stood out as demonstrating what a ridiculous, NIMBY, curtain-twitching, hypocritical, virtue signalling and misguided society we have become.
Post A = Cyclist killed in RTA. Number of comments = 2.
Post B = Some people were rude to one of the non-furloughed rangers in aforementioned park. Number of comments = 157. Hang 'em, flog 'em etc.
For those of you old enough to remember Only Fools and Horses....
I genuinely don't think the Beeb would get away with that now. Cheerful wheeler dealers and wide boys dodging VAT and handling stolen goods? There'd be crosses burning outside Wogan House within 6 hours.
So you want to introduce some variant of marshall law
No, I'm not suggesting martial law. I'm suggesting using the forces as extra bodies alongside Police officers for things like crowd dispersal, traffic management at checkpoints. If each copper had a squaddie in support you've doubled the number of people out there, can cover a wider area. Who knows, maybe some teenage tearaways may respond better to a chat to someone in fatigues than someone they usually see as the "enemy"
Either we want to try and get people to fall in line with lockdown or we don't. The Police can't be everywhere at once, so what do we do? Trained forces personnel or curtain twitching vigilantes?
Still, if all you conspiracy theorists want to fap yourselves senseless about martial law, you crack on.
Round here police are using blues and twos to attend their own family parties whist on shift so clearly not that busy or understand the rules they are meant to enforce. They only left to respond to a call about a party elsewhere
So it’s police bashing rather than teacher bashing today is it? Let’s pick out a nice anecdote and seek to paint all [insert public servant here] in a bad light.
You say you're not proposing Marshall law them set out a form of Marshall law. It's a huge, huge step for a government to take having the armed forces involved in civilian policing in any way.
It would go down like a lead balloon.
Just for clarity.
Marshall Law is a character from Tekken. Resembles Bruce Lee.
Martial Law is what Daily Mail readers want every time they see (or hear about on Facebook) a person riding a bike on a footpath. I think this is what we are referring to here.
Round here police are using blues and twos to attend their own family parties whist on shift so clearly not that busy or understand the rules they are meant to enforce. They only left to respond to a call about a party elsewhere
Yep, sounds true....oh hang on - no, it's that other thing......made up bollox.
No, I’m not suggesting martial law. I’m suggesting using the forces as extra bodies alongside Police officers for things like crowd dispersal, traffic management at checkpoints. If each copper had a squaddie in support you’ve doubled the number of people out there, can cover a wider area. Who knows, maybe some teenage tearaways may respond better to a chat to someone in fatigues than someone they usually see as the “enemy”
The Army have no powers of arrest or detainment, unless you declare martial law, so what are they going to do? Stand around looking hard whilst topping up their tan & trying hard not to go lala with boredom? Better off using them for logistics than some half-assed law enforcement role..
I can imagine some workplaces have become targets if they are unmanned for a while. Possibly car theft too?
Has been the story round me. Plenty of shops and bars have been broken into in the city centre, was worse at the beginning before all the stock was removed but there's still a few each week. Pedalabikeaway on the FOD was broken into twice in quick succession and they now have 24hr security on site.
As for the army? They can be sent out as observers, calling in the real police when things get to the point they need to attend, think parks getting too busy or a close car park getting too many visitors. Leaves the police free to do other things in the meantime.
You ‘could’ argue with some members of the armed forces if they asked you to move on, or go home… but would you?
Well that's the point isn't it? Most folk wouldn't but some would and them what happens? We're a country where soldiers can bash people's heads in when there's no law allowing them to a) police and b) assault the public? You would also get a fair chunk of people who would antagonise the soldiers just because it'd be fun and they'd know there was nothing they could do.
It'll be fine for deterring little old ladies but what happens when a group of soldiers is manning a car park when it kicks off with the local neddery? What's their remit?
It is an absolutely shockingly bad idea, an I'm sure the saner members of the armed forces would also want no part of it. The secondary bad aspect to it is it risks losing general public support because it's obviously such a rank rotten disproportionate idea.
It’ll be fine for deterring little old ladies but what happens when a group of soldiers is manning a car park when it kicks off with the local neddery? What’s their remit?
Call the police? I should hope they wouldn't get themselves into that situation in the first place (I've seen the advert where the clever soldier chap takes his glasses off). Also deterring little old ladies (and men) might be enough. It'll certainly put a dent in the number of people driving to lakes/peaks/dales/etc, and the second homers.
a rank rotten disproportionate idea
Most people are glad to see the armed forces helping in a crisis… be it fires, floods or a health emergency. For every one who’d be up in arms about it, there’d be many that would welcome it. Not sure where the “bash people’s heads in” idea comes from though, why would you expect that?
Helping put sand bags out is a very easy thing to define with next to zero chance of soldiers breaking the law.
Policing is another thing.
Have you met many squaddies?
They get trained to the nth degree to be steely eyed dealers of death*, not social workers...
* as my son described himself to his granny...
I got questioned by the Police today. I'd just ridden an 800ft cat 4 climb at maximum attack and was taking a little breather before hitting the trails and a copper and a PCSO in a Nissan Leaf :ROFLMAO: pulled into the layby. Initially they thought I was on a motorbike and wanted to know if my journey was really necessary. Once they realised it was a bicycle they were fine and we had a bit of a chat. At 8 miles from my house, they considered that unnecessarily far for a drive for exercise.
Hopefully they'll be nicking all the ****s in cabriolets who were out today.
Round here police are using blues and twos to attend their own family parties whist on shift so clearly not that busy or understand the rules they are meant to enforce. They only left to respond to a call about a party elsewhere
Yep, sounds true….oh hang on – no, it’s that other thing……made up bollox.
I wish it was. But alas its true
I wish it was. But alas its true
Prove it - if you can’t you’re just a lame, dull troll.
Remember the good old days when there was this idea weyou could have one thread to argue about all this shit in, rather than every thread?
I had a chat with a copper at Rivington today, he said they're tolerating people driving a reasonable distance to exercise - so a handful of miles - but sending them packing if they've driven for an hour.
I assume he was checking registrations, as he wasn't actually challenging people.
I saw my first MTBers driving there since lockdown, a few had actually driven to meet up.
As I said to them, not cool guys.
I saw my first MTBers driving there since lockdown, a few had actually driven to meet up.
As I said to them, not cool guys.
Playing Devil's advocate here, but I don't know of many more sports or passtimes where it's quite so easy to maintain a safe social distance from other people you are participating in said activity with, than Mountain Biking... 🤷🏻♂️
I drove to my "normal" riding spot today... It's 20mins each way, and I was out for just shy of 3hrs, with approx 2hr30 actual moving time and no stops of more than 5mins... All of it well within the current Govt. Guidelines issued on on the 16th April... What's more, I even bumped into a couple of friends (but maintained quite a bit more than 2m of distance from them) and had a nice impromptu catchup for a few mins, and I did one hell of a lot to improve the fragile status of my mental health in doing so. I drove there and back sensibly, didn't exceed the speed limit or put anyone else in any danger. I was kind and courteous and gave a wide berth to the horse riders and dog walkers I came across, and I rode at probably 50% of my capacity at most and on easy trails, to make sure I wasn't putting myself anywhere near the limits of my comfort zone and putting myself in undue danger...
Yet despite all that, the holier than though social pariahs would have a field day if I posted the Strava data! 🤷🏻♂️ Yet at the same time, the local supermarkets and DIY stores were rammed full of people...
What I didn't do... Go somewhere I wouldn't normally go on a Sunday... Ride at or near my limit... Put anyone else in any kind of danger... Act like a dick!
I think we all need to remember that this is uncharted territory for a lot of people here... I have NEVER spent so much time cooped up at home, or so much time with the only person I have been able to socialise with being my GF... Household violence is up several fold, and I'm not saying I'm about to become a statistic (or condoning any kind of violence), but I do understand how and why people who don't normally spend so much time around each other suddenly fall out when forced to spend all their time around each other without a break!
For us to return to any kind of normal, once we have reached the peak of the curve and started going down the other side, "normal" (whatever that will be going forward) life needs to be phased back in progressively, otherwise we run the risk of a collapsed economy, massive job losses, mental health issues off the scale, domestic violence cases continuing to rise etc. The longer that the holier than thous keep banging on about the requirement for an indefinite lockdown, the longer the other problems have to materialise and gain momentum themselves! Sure, there's the Trump "**** everyone, re-boot the economy" approach which is just a staggering indictment of the man and what's important to him, but we have to be proactive about returning to a new "normal" ASAP otherwise we run the risk of putting an entire generation into depression!
FWIW... I will continue to abide by the rules, whether or not I agree with them. And I will continue to use my common sense and decency to make sure I don't put myself or anyone else in a compromising position... But I will continue to do what I need to to manage my own mental health issues in the meantime too!
All of it well within the current Govt. Guidelines issued on on the 16th April…
Non of this is within the government guidelines.
There were no new government guidelines issued on 16th April.
What you may have seen reported were not new government guidelines. The rules have not changed.
a few had actually driven to meet up.
To me the issue here is the bit about meeting up. Sure we could say it is “possible” to keep 2m apart while riding, but if going out in groups starts to becomes normal for you and your mates then the keeping the 2m apart soon gets eroded too.
And I’d suggest that riding along 2m behind somebody is not safe - sure it’s one thing quickly passing somebody on the road, but sitting 2m behind them winding up a climb means the whole time you are breathing in the air they breathed out 1 second ago - for 5 to 10 minutes. Sounds a very effective way of transmitting and airborne disease.
Meeting up for a ride - definitely not cool.
To me the issue here is the bit about meeting up.
Beat me to it.
Actually didn't see anyone who'd driven to ride solo, just a congregation of vans and middle aged blokes chatting as they prepped their bikes at one of the busiest parking spots in the area.
Even if it were very safe in terms of transmission, it's firmly against the rules.
I think, if you drive to go for a ride, then you're a pillock. As said by someone else - why is it ok for you and not everyone else? Why shouldn't people meet up at national trust sites in their cars, like they were before the lockdown? BECAUSE ITS A ****ING LOCKDOWN. Exercise from your doorstep or stay in, you dicks.
Talking of which - my son and I have been going for weekly rides from the doorstep. Yesterday, we were riding down a bridleway and saw a family ahead. I pinged my bell, we slowed and made our way past them as they'd tucked themselves over to the side of the trail. I was just about to thank them, when I realised the woman was having a go at my lad (bad move!), so I stop to find out what her problem is. She and her lapdog husband come walking [i]towards[/i] me and she is hysterical! Ranting and raving about how we don't understand the seriousness of the situation, Have I heard of social distancing etc etc. I eventually get a word in and ask what she thinks we've done wrong and the bloke says we should've stopped and waited for them to go into the trees or something! Weird, cos we'd given them plenty of room and would've been long gone. So I say, "So your idea of social distancing is to walk towards us, bellowing the contents of your lungs in our direction?" Ah man, she stomps off stamping her feet like a 7 year old, steam still blasting out of her ears. Husband says "Um" and turns and follows her and their highly embarrassed teenage son. Mine hadn't waited for me, so i had to bask in the glory alone 😂 Bloody nutters.
Got to love a man picking fights with strangers on a quiet bridleway calling people dicks. Hurrah.
It's been said quite a few times but it's not black and white. A few miles from the house seems kind of reasonable tbh. Quite a few people park up near my house for exercise to access to forest and moors, most are from the next town over. Struggling to get worked up over it.
An interesting phenomenon I'm seeing on my exercise sessions is middle-aged women meeting up to go for walks, but staying strictly two metres apart, to make it OK.
So breaking the rules, but in a more responsible way than the teenagers and groups of lads.
Yep -seen this a few times...pressume 'friends' going out for a walk on country roads, one on each side of the road, having a natter. Its annoying as when they hear the bike coming they invariably frieze in a 'oooh we've been rumbled' manner and you have to ride in the centre of the road between them...less than 2 meters away - Nutters.
Got to love a man picking fights with strangers on a quiet bridleway calling people dicks. Hurrah
Nobody picked a fight though did they? Any more than you just did inferring I was a dick with your post. clever boy
Its annoying as when they hear the bike coming they invariably frieze in a ‘oooh we’ve been rumbled’ manner and you have to ride in the centre of the road between them…less than 2 meters away
Just give a cough whilst riding through the middle.
I’ll keep repeating – I’m not seeing any signs of the roads being busier, car park/laybys being used. A group of yoofs were down by the river a couple of nights ago, otherwise the outdoor rules seem to be holding around here.
I guess you're based North of t'border, but where I am here in Yorkshire, this weekend was the busiest by far, with plenty of cars parked at every popular walking spot that I passed on my bike. Roads were also noticeably busier with cars but also, to be fair, with bikes. In places it felt that there were 10x as many bikes out as on a normal weekend summer day! (and this is in an area with some of the highest levels of road cycling in the country). I'm not overly bothered if people are obeying the rules about social distancing as, TBH, you're putting yourself and others far more at risk by going to the supermarket than you are by taking a short drive for a walk in the woods with the family.
I’m not overly bothered if people are obeying the rules about social distancing as, TBH, you’re putting yourself and others far more at risk by going to the supermarket than you are by taking a short drive for a walk in the woods with the family.
You need to eat. Getting food in is essential.
In a part of Saddleworth thats normally quiet I can ride from my door and not see a sole but these past 5 weeks ive seen more folk out than Blackpool prom, people who clearly have found the cheapest pig iorn Halfruads has to offer, no helmets carrying bags of tinnies, it truley does take the piss. I live 15 minutes drive from Hayfield and even that for me is to much traveling as lets be fair Derbyshire CC said that the Peaks are closed so from home it is. When the traffic is so much lighter than normal I really cant see why you would need to drive anywhere for a bike ride.
@stevedoc - TBF Saddleworth isn't really the natural habitat for a marine flatfish.
I've a lot of work lined up in Saddleworth but I live near Skipton so travelling down there isn't sensible at the mo even though I'd probably not see anyone for the entire time I'm there.
Then you've got this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-52442573 - travelling to Malham from Kent? WTAF? Malham is less than half an hour's drive for me, it's only an hour or so on the road bike, the last time I went anywhere close was the weekend before the lockdown started.
We live next to a BW and a FP and the last weekend was probably the quietest so far. Most of those going past are local and I'd see them walking daily anyway. There's a few more MTBs going past than normal but we aren't talking huge numbers, maybe ten a day, and out of all of them over the last month I'd say only a handful weren't regular cyclists.
How the flip does a car land on its roof on a motorway carrying light traffic?
I wish it was. But alas its true
Prove it – if you can’t you’re just a lame, dull troll.
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Im not going to share the Whatapp conversation between the neighbors checking all was well after seeing the blues and two's and being concerned everyone was ok. The lads name is Madison and the coppers name is Connor and it happened on the 11th April,
We are seeing lots of groups walking and riding in the country that are unlikely to be households. Groups of middle aged ladies walking the dogs, 3 roadies, 2 ladies and a bloke all middle aged.
Originally I understood the point of the lockdown but now Im struggling whilst the government are still letting people fly in from round the world with no health checks. Equally I dont see how driving to ride in the Peak district is any more risky that queing for 2 hours at B&Q for some paint or whatever people are buying
cinnamon_girl
How the flip does a car land on its roof on a motorway carrying light traffic?
I don't know.. how the flip does a car land on its roof on a motorway carrying light traffic?
It flips 🙂
I think they want a degree of disobedience simply so the curve doesn’t go too flat.
I thought that was so we could be blamed for everything and not the government?